Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

BowWow wrote: »

Bóithre Iarainn (OS)
20:00
The Western Rail Corridor: The re-opening of the line from Limerick to Galway in 2010 was seen as a triumph by campaigners for the Western Rail Corridor, but this same line once stretched North West all the way to Collooney in Sligo and was the setting for much drama both in real-life as in art- including the filming of the Quiet Man train scene near Tuam.

Watched that last night, the priest and the other guy who are part of the 'West on Track' lobby were shamelessly plugging for the northern section of the line to be reopened, clearly they are still living in cloud cuckoo land.

The original campaign involved a 'survey' which asked people if they would use the line if it was reopened, thousands said they would but the reality as shown on a recent Prime Time program was different. The trains on the southern section of the line which opened a couple of years ago were mainly empty except for groups of pensioners on a day out thanks to the free travel, hardly any commuters use the service. Criminal waste of money.

coylemj wrote: »

Watched that last night, the priest and the other guy who are part of the 'West on Track' lobby were shamelessly plugging for the northern section of the line to be reopened, clearly they are still living in cloud cuckoo land.
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We know they are living in cloud cuckoo land about the northern section of the line and there continued arguing the case on a minority TV programme will hardly change public policy. Did they mention the McCann repor of 2005 per chance? The report used as the basis for the re-opening of the line: Lets just revisit what the report had to say about he infamours northern branch line from Claremorris to Collooney:

[B]From the McCann Report into Western Rail Corridor prepared for Minister of Transport in 2005/B]I understand that there are two main reasons why the cost of the Claremorris-Collooney section is very high. Firstly, when it was built in 1891-1892 the section was constructed as a light railway. If it were to be brought into the IE network the formation would have to be rebuilt to the national heavy rail standard. The second relates to the cost of necessary alterations to level crossings, of which there are a total of 290 along the section, two of which alone would cost €24m to create grade separations.

In following through on my general recommendation, I am suggesting that the restoration of the WRC should take account of these relative costings.

......AND

It is clear that this section would be extremely expensive to restore. It accounts for 54% of the restoration costs of the entire line. Expenditure of this order would be very difficult to justify and I have to say that the case for its restoration, as things stand, is weak except on the grounds of balanced regional development.

This section is characterised by low population densities with few towns of reasonable size.

AND ...

Firstly, the section should be preserved in its entirety by clearing, fencing, etc and Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo County Councils should make the necessary arrangements as soon as possible.

Secondly, the viability of restoring this section of line should be reviewed in three years to see whether the objective conditions for line restoration have changed.

So there we go - even a report that was wildly optimistic about the WRC more or less said forget it boys when it comes to north of Claremorris. The last two bits are laughable when you see the encroachment that has been allowed on the line and how Sligo Coco at the northern end have allowed people to absorb the WRC into their front drives and gardens. As for reviewing the viability in 2008 (Mc Cann was written in 2005), well as they say we are where we are and we certainly are in the Sh*t now. So it would appear the whole thing is still being long fingered endlessly and we continue to ignore the simple opportunity to create a wonderful leisure and tourist amenity. West on Track aren't in cloud cuckoo land they are on a different planet!!

Judgement Day wrote: »

You're so right of course. Perhaps we should close the Dublin/Tralee line and make that into a Greenway too. :rolleyes:

JD this doesn't become you! You know full well that nobody is proposing closing a line to make it a greenway - in fact EastWest is proposing like I have for years on this thread and its predecessor to make good use of a long closed down line that we all know is not viable to open - and that making the line greenway will in fact protect the alignment in the long term against further encroachment. People are beginning to wake up to the greenway arguments on the claremorris/collooney line and the fact a local group in Tuam is now actively campaigning to greenway the burma road really says it all; they are campaigning for a greenway on the holy grail of a line to Claremorris (the clapham junction of the west) you know JD I am sure of this, that the WOT arguments have long disappeared down the plughole and the opinions of an ocotgenerian priest is not what Irelands future tourism industry is about. He would have us going back to the days fo the dining car heading for Knock shrine and priests saying mass on the train over the tannoys - what was that train radio all about in that TG4 programme - straight from the Python school of comedy. Do you think a train service running along this route will bring one more tired hungry tourist to Kiltimagh, Curry, Charlestown, Tubercurry - not to mention south of Claremorris to Tuam? Not one, JD Ok sorry apart from the notebook carrying anorak from the UK for the annual special steam train run. This the crux of the matter - the WOT spokesperson on that programme could only talk about trains trundling through Claremorris when he was a boy, the penny dropped when he did this - it really is all about the trainspotting fraternity. Sure I can remember big Steam engines in Snowhill Station in Birmingham as a child - a very distant memory - it was the end of the "golden age" of steam and rail travel in the UK. JD we simply have to move on - and people like Varadkar, Michael Ring and all the county councils have to grab the nettle of what is being said. otherwise as East West quite rightly points out we are throwing away a golden opportunity to build on the massive success the great western greenway has presented to the counties of Sligo, Mayo and Galway (and indeed Leitrim and donegal if the network can be expanded in that direction). People like me and EastWest are talking about real feasible projects to inject pride, jobs and money into the west of Ireland tourism industry. West on Track are trying to block us all the way. But we won't give up!!!!

In a lot of cases the alignment is wide enough for a single track and a cycle path - where at all possible it should not be a case of rail or bike, and a lot of existing or recent alignments (Rosslare-Campile for instance) should be looked at ASAP.

1.My wife & I were on our Honeymoon and visited Tralee 3 October 2007.While looking for the Tralee & Dingle train, we met a railfan from England who wanted to trace the line. He invited my wife and me to join them on a ride to Dingle to photograph what relics we could find We had a pleasant journey and was very impressed by the beautiful Kerry countryside. I am enamored by 5T and look forward to riding her train in the future. I model 2′ & 3′ gauge & just added 2 class 141 diesels by Murphy models to my collection

JD sorry but i pulled this from one of your links earlier - for me it really says it all about the restoration of these old rail lines lobby, I hope others can indeed see the pythonesque humour in it: but I want to pull these bits out:

He invited my wife and me to join them on a ride to Dingle...I am enamored by 5T and look forward to riding her train in the future You have got to admit pulling these two phrases out and putting them together does make you feel rather sorry for the lady. go on have a laugh if you have a similiar sense of humour. JD I think you will see the black comedy - the trouble is the ocotogenerian priest and his side kick who remembers trains in claremorris as a young boy will take this kind of comment as serious argument, this is the real problem!.

maninasia wrote: »

eastwest wrote: »

The limerick Tralee line is already being turned into a greenway. It will eventually link tralee to dublin using the grand canal towpath. A related proposal to connect dublin to Achill using the royal canal and a disused rail line in mayo is being blocked by the pro rail lobby. Clearly, mayo doesn't want the tourists but Kerry does.

Put in more greenways and I'll send you the tourists :pac: . Seriously that's good news.

You mean wise economic use of scarce resources, rather than pointless regressive nostalgia for it's own sake...
Heresy burn him

Apart from Kevin Costiner , wasn't it said about the first leg of the western rail corridor....when are they coming

foggy_lad wrote: »

They are on the train so it may take a while!

No they are all waiting for their free travel pass to come through before they use it so they have the time to while a couple of hours on a journey that takes an hour by road, and they can read the paper have their flask of coffee, bottle of ginger beer and cheese sandwiches- because as they said on primetime its such a nice day out!!! or words to that effect.

This is what we must get right - building vital infrastructure for the social lives of our greying population!

West on track website has a section called the archives. its always worth a browse just to tickle yourself pink every now and again about the complete and utter twaddle that has eminated from that organisation over the years - this one is a classic from six years ago. Enjoy it and have a laugh it really is a beauty: http://www.westontrack.com/news178.htm

Opinion Poll Findings show Significant Passenger Demand for Western Rail Corridor
Press Release 31st October 2006


The West on Track Community Campaign has welcomed the findings of the MRBI/TG4 Opinion Poll in Galway West which show that almost a quarter of those interviewed would use the soon to be reopened section of the Western Rail Corridor from Ennis to Athenry and that 8% would use it at least 2-3 times per week.

Commenting on the findings, a spokesman for West on Track said: "These figures more than bear out the passenger demand projections of West on Track and are in line with ongoing research being conducted both north and south of Athenry which indicate that demand north of Athenry (the Mayo-Galway route) is 80% of that south of it," he said.

"For example, if 23% of the population of Co. Galway over 18 yrs (approx 150,000) were to make a return journey just once a week, as indicated in the MRBI Opinion Poll, that would generate 828,000 passenger journeys per year (see 1 below).

"It should also be borne in mind that this high level of potential patronage is within just one of the counties to be served by the line (i.e. Galway). We welcome the fact that our passenger demand projections have now been independently verified and expect our projections of demand north of Galway to be accepted as equally accurate.

"The findings of the TG4 poll clearly justify the decision to proceed with the Ennis-Athenry section of the WRC and should encourage the Government to include Phase 2 from Athenry to Claremorris immediately.

"Working from the statistics in the poll it may be seen that potentially greater numbers of people would be using that one section of the WRC annually than currently use the Belfast-Dublin route, with numbers being at least as great as those currently using the Limerick-Dublin, Westport-Dublin and Sligo-Dublin routes," he added.

Example:

23% of respondents say they will use the train at least once a month.

As a % of total pop of Co. Galway over 18 yrs (150,000 approx):

= 34,500 people x 12 months

= 414,000 x 2 (return trips count as 2)

= 828,000 = DEMAND

Note: WEST ON TRACK projected a demand of 750,000

The people who wrote this cr*p are still there trying to claim credibility and arguing for this case. A friend of mine said to me today, there is no point arguing with these people they are a lost cause. What we have to do now is convince others - politicians, the public, the various stakeholders like Bord Failte and the County councils of the correct way to g. He said don't worry about west on track you will NEVER change their minds and the politicians now see them as a monkey they want to get off their backs. Groups like the Tuam Greenway group are a godsend. At long last the people are speaking.

yer man! wrote: »

Just saw some prices there to travel this line, €52 return from Athenry to limerick at any time, it's probably a little more from Ceannt station (being further away). Bus is €20.90 return....... no wonder nobody wants to use this train, over double the price.....

:S doesn't sound right. Last time I checked it was 20e return on the train.

Tuam Greenway Project wrote: »

Hello All,

I am a member of the Tuam Greenway Project which was set up in early January 2012 with the objective of bringing a beautiful Greenway to this area for families, walkers, joggers & cyclists alike to enjoy.
We have both seen and are very impressed with the beautiful Greenways in County Mayo and we have also heard about the great work that is currently taking place on the Greenways between Limerick & Tralee. These projects are a joy to behold.

We have made it clear from day one that we are absolutely no threat to WOT's efforts to re-stablish the Western Rail Corridor. If the WOT are successful in re-opening the Western Rail Corridor (Northbound from Tuam), we are prepared to walk away from the Greenway. It is fair to say that this will not happen in the short/medium term owing to the current difficult economic climate.

We would appreciate any advice, help or support from Boardsies that share a passion for walking, jogging,cycling and indeed family life.

Below is a link to our Facebook Group:
http://www.facebook.com/groups/213079802087801/

Its really great to see this group happening south of Claremorris, be warned you will come up against well orchestrated opposition that will try to undermine your groups ideas who will say a Greenway will stop a "major piece of infrastructure" for the west of ireland - referring of course to a train line that is never going to be reinstated. Be under no illusions attempts will be made to undermine your credibility, to try and show you have no support and in general to stop what you are trying to do to help west of ireland tourism. Do no be deterred. Ideas belong to everyone and the rail alignment does not belong to one group but to the public as a whole. Your ideas are equally worth to those of others.


You can clearly see the bigger picture and whats needed for activity tourism in the west of ireland - brillian and well done. If you want any literature or photos of stuff that has been done by the SMG campaign just pm me.

I wonder is there anywhere where there is a bit of spur track or something where a "greenway demo" could be built. Make the track look good cosmetically even if it wouldn't hold the weight of an empty wagon and shovel some stones over the rotten sleepers, then build a short length of adequate fencing similar to similar fences in current operational use (not the palisade stuff IE uses at stations but something you can see through) and a greenway track alongside. This could be then used for photomontages - literally a before and after where unremediated track ends and the greenway begins. This could then be accompanied by diagrams showing how wide the greenway could be with a single track, fence and greenway which was both wide enough to use for recreation while respecting IE's structure gauge.

The thing is, if IE handled it right how wouldn't it be handy for them to essentially have a service road running alongside their single track lines? The greenway people could agree that X days per year that IE could use the greenway to access the line and carry out any maintenance easier to do from alongside rather than use a vehicle on the line itself.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Well done to all the greenway advocates everywhere.

Proposing realistic alignment protection solutions and keeping the alignments in public use and ownership is a most valid addition to the public discourse and beats watching a streak of rust and hogweed stretching to the horizon off the N17.

I'd also like to see Westtip reactivate his Express Bus Atlantic Corridor suggestion ( may have been made in the Roads forum not here) and 'Galway Hub' plan...I don't think that lot should go away while he is evidently busy. Once they reckon you is a guru they reckon you is a guru, way it is.

Getting off a bus at an express bus hub and lepping on a bicycle is rather a complementary activity set to my mind.

Tried suggesting a coach and bus stop at the park and ride at blackash in cork, was pitching it as transport hub to cork city council ( bike facilities coach stops,and city bus stops + ucc park and ride bus ) as it's near Douglas, frankfield, turners-cross ect. And the buses already pass by.... The lads from the council didn't seem impressed...
Know that's off thread but....
How long do people reckon ie will soldier on with the western rail corridor if it remains chronicly underused.... How long before it would be affordable to upgrade it, or politically acceptable to dump it....
Is there a formula for combining price paid by running cost and locals obvious lack of interest equals 2 years or 10 years or till next major capital injection required .... Good luck with the greenway north of athenry by the way ...best idea I've heard for most of Ireland's old lines( and some current)

dowlingm wrote: »

I wonder is there anywhere where there is a bit of spur track or something where a "greenway demo" could be built. Make the track look good cosmetically even if it wouldn't hold the weight of an empty wagon and shovel some stones over the rotten sleepers, then build a short length of adequate fencing similar to similar fences in current operational use (not the palisade stuff IE uses at stations but something you can see through) and a greenway track alongside. This could be then used for photomontages - literally a before and after where unremediated track ends and the greenway begins. This could then be accompanied by diagrams showing how wide the greenway could be with a single track, fence and greenway which was both wide enough to use for recreation while respecting IE's structure gauge.

The thing is, if IE handled it right how wouldn't it be handy for them to essentially have a service road running alongside their single track lines? The greenway people could agree that X days per year that IE could use the greenway to access the line and carry out any maintenance easier to do from alongside rather than use a vehicle on the line itself.

Great idea sounds a bit too much like lateral thinking for a state body.

+1 EastWest. Its like you say we will never convince the dreamers, octogenerian clergy, and guys in their 50s who talk about cattle trains in claremorris when they were boys and thousands of people arriving on the train at Knock Shrine having had a cooked breakfast and mass on the train or equally the droves getting on the train after early mass on a Sunday morning to head for a GAA county match in the afternoon.

Those days are gone, over, done and dusted. Its called meat processing plants and exporting carcasses in trucks with chill facilities, its called the agnostic pluralistic society we live in, its called Sky TV Super Ford Super Sunday. Over over over. Oh and its all called high levels of car ownership. Its also called the changes in the tourism industry - ie activity tourism for baby boomer generation is now one of the fastest growing tourism sectors globally. its called a town like Enniscrone yesterday having hundreds of people run in a 10km sponsored run, its called 80,000 tired hungry users of the great western greenway last year, its called activity tourism for tired hungry tourists. You are dead right the likes of Kiltimagh, Collooney, Coolaney, Tubercurry, Tuam, Charlestown are just waking up to the new opportunity - the real opportunity this line offers to change these towns for ever and for the better. No point convincing the dinosaurs - look what became of them.