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Horrific Footage of Homeless Schizophrenic beaten by cops

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Comments

  • #202
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Who wouldn't struggle with two hefty fucks, like those two appear to be, sitting on you compressing your chest and literally squeezing and beating the life out of you?

    MagicSean wrote: »
    It's a progressive cycle. He tries to struggle they use more force, he struggles harder, they use more force.
    Chuck Stone wrote: »

    If a person, two people, tasked with that type of job cannot effectively restrain a struggling person without killing them then they are obviously not fit for purpose.

    MagicSean wrote: »

    It's not as easy as you see on the TV
    Nodin wrote: »

    The dead guy and his battered corpse.
    MagicSean wrote: »

    That doesn't prove that they didn't do what they were trained to.


    Nodin wrote: »

    At any rate, by the ratio of cops to grounded mental patient it would seem they failed the "effectiveness" test. By my 'don't kill them' standard anyway.
    MagicSean wrote: »

    The most effective doesn't work 100%. Even pepper spray only works about 95% of the time

    lestat21 wrote: »
    :mad:

    A member of my family has schizoprenia. She goes off her meds bout every two years and tries to be normal. We hope and pray that the guards will pick her up when this happens. Last time they did. They listened patiently while she told them that the CIA and/or IRA were following her and out to get her. They offered to take her back to the station to give a full statement about her experiences. I would just like to thank the men and women of the gardai who deal with mentally ill people everyday in a respectful and non violent manner. (Shes on her meds again.. YAh!!)





    Hope MagicSean isn't the guard the picks up your family member some day :eek:


  • #203
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    This got me thinking, if a cop pointed a tazer at me I couldn't keep calm! Guns are different because you don't expect them to use it. Something like that would escalate the situation.


  • #204
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    The way they have him on the ground, telling him to put his hands behind his back at the start... they didn't give him a chance. He has one arm behind his back and the other hand is stopping him hitting his face off the pavement. He was saying 'OK, OK' ie: 'get you effing weight off me and let me'.

    He knew if he released his hand and with the weight on him, his face would be hitting the hard pavement.

    The police didn't want him to co-operate or they would have given him a chance to do as they say.

    Looks like they were just enjoying the whole power trip and were getting off on it.

    How can there ever really be justice? A young man is dead. He was murdered by a group of brutal thugs that should have been protecting him. It makes me sick.


  • #205
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    yeah, I know the feeling. I have seen some bad sh1t in my pitiful life growing up but after watching this murder I just broke up.

    These savages will have to do jail time because if the result of the trial next week or two is not guilty, then they in Fullerton California will have a serious riot on their hands.

    A homeless guy doing his thing and wants to just find somewhere to sleep...They knew he was homeless anyway as we could hear him saying he would like to find a place to sleep. But no, they couldn't just do a quick search of him. Either way the poor soul was going to be murdered anyway as this was the thinking of the scumbags in blue. Just imagine the sh1t we never hear about. Fullerton police department California is corrupt to the hilt but will it still exist in 2/3 weeks, I will ponder on that one.


  • #206
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Unfortunately this is all down to training, ever since 9/11 the US government have been turning the US into a paranoid Orwellian police state and this is just the fruits of it.


  • #207
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    Those thugs had a sense of 'we are untouchable' about them.

    To think that many men were needed to hold a helpless, small man down. Kelly was not a big guy and the force used was totally unneccessary. They viewed him as less than human and had no intention of giving him a chance.

    I am not sure if I heard right, as I was upset and not listening to it all... but I think one of them was laughing about the situation, which if true signifies the type of person we are dealing with here. Anyone with any sense of compassion does not laugh at a man fighting for his life and bleeding to death in front of them.

    I will be watching to see the outcome of this trial as well and can only hope that the police are prosecuted. I agree that there will be riots if they are let off.


  • #208
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    The way they have him on the ground, telling him to put his hands behind his back at the start... they didn't give him a chance. He has one arm behind his back and the other hand is stopping him hitting his face off the pavement. He was saying 'OK, OK' ie: 'get you effing weight off me and let me'.

    He knew if he released his hand and with the weight on him, his face would be hitting the hard pavement.

    The police didn't want him to co-operate or they would have given him a chance to do as they say.

    Looks like they were just enjoying the whole power trip and were getting off on it.

    How can there ever really be justice? A young man is dead. He was murdered by a group of brutal thugs that should have been protecting him. It makes me sick.

    Exactly, at the start of the video the thug tells him to put his hands out in front of him and Thomas does this. If the the cop wanted to cuff him he could have done it then but instead he tells him to put his legs out straight. Thomas does this but pulls his hands back to steady himself. The thug says "put your hands out", Thomas replies with "Which is it man, I can't do both", then it all starts.


  • #209
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    Exactly, at the start of the video the thug tells him to put his hands out in front of him and Thomas does this. If the the cop wanted to cuff him he could have done it then but instead he tells him to put his legs out straight. Thomas does this but pulls his hands back to steady himself. The thug says "put your hands out", Thomas replies with "Which is it man, I can't do both", then it all starts.

    God, that is just brutal.

    They were telling him to do something, knowing that he was incapable and then punishing him.

    Kelly had no chance at all. None.

    It was just a free-for-all for those cops to beat the **** out of someone they presumed no-one would miss and no-one would see the footage of.

    Yeah, well, aholes - the whole world has now seen what you all did to that unfortunate, defenceless man.


  • #210
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Transcript of the whole encounter here, chilling stuff...

    http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Transcripts-Kelly-Thomas-FPD.pdf


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  • #211
    Bobeagleburger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,734 ✭✭✭✭Bobeagleburger


    Utter scum those cops.

    As bad as any scumbags tbh, worse actually as they are supposed to protect people.


  • #212
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    On Wednesday, Judge Walter Schwarm ruled that two Fullerton, California police officers — Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli — will have to stand trial in the death of a schizophrenic, homeless man, Kelly Thomas, after they mercilessly beat him for over nine minutes last year.

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/11359-judge-sends-kelly-thomas-murder-case-to-trial It hurts to already know that these scumbags will get off. You may ask why I think they will be acquitted.. well the reason this will probably be the case is because higher heads in this sad department in Fullerton will make it a priority to.

    I hope Justice will be done but I doubt it, as the whole state is so corrupt.


  • #213
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    zenno wrote: »
    On Wednesday, Judge Walter Schwarm ruled that two Fullerton, California police officers — Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli — will have to stand trial in the death of a schizophrenic, homeless man, Kelly Thomas, after they mercilessly beat him for over nine minutes last year.

    http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/11359-judge-sends-kelly-thomas-murder-case-to-trial It hurts to already know that these scumbags will get off. You may ask why I think they will be acquitted.. well the reason this will probably be the case is because higher heads in this sad department in Fullerton will make it a priority to.

    I hope Justice will be done but I doubt it, as the whole state is so corrupt.

    From the article...

    The defense attorneys hope to make the case that it was in fact the medics who treated Thomas that caused his death.


  • #214
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    From the article...

    The defense attorneys hope to make the case that it was in fact the medics who treated Thomas that caused his death.

    ahh for fcuk sake, I give up, what will they come up with next.

    I can smell riots if this is not taken care of in a professional manner.

    Murderers... They actually look like ex-convicts, how Ironic.

    They will always look after the group within the group and it is in actual fact a code of honour within every police department in the U.S. Even if the cops are bad, no-one within this force will rat. ...Problem number 1.


  • #215
    ziggy23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ziggy23


    Jesus I hope to **** they don't get away with this:mad: This has been playing on my mind the past few days. I just can't get the poor man and his screams out of my head:(


  • #216
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Well it just shows that even his mother can be bribed. His mother took the payoff and can not now proceed with anything in future.

    A unanimous vote by Fullerton city council members Tuesday granted the mother of a mentally ill homeless man who died after a violent confrontation with police a $1 million settlement with the city, officials said.

    In exchange, Cathy Thomas agreed to not pursue any further claims or lawsuits seeking damages for the July 2011 death of her son, Kelly, according to a statement released Tuesday.

    Both officers were ordered to stand trial on all charges in the death of Kelly Thomas. They are scheduled to appear in court on May 22.

    Source: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Kelly-Thomas-Fullerton-Police-Beating-Death-Ron-Thomas-Mother-Settlement-151651455.html

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-354394-settlement-court.html


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  • #217
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    zenno wrote: »
    Well it just shows that even his mother can be bribed. His mother took the payoff and can not now proceed with anything in future.

    A unanimous vote by Fullerton city council members Tuesday granted the mother of a mentally ill homeless man who died after a violent confrontation with police a $1 million settlement with the city, officials said.

    In exchange, Cathy Thomas agreed to not pursue any further claims or lawsuits seeking damages for the July 2011 death of her son, Kelly, according to a statement released Tuesday.

    Both officers were ordered to stand trial on all charges in the death of Kelly Thomas. They are scheduled to appear in court on May 22.

    Source: http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Kelly-Thomas-Fullerton-Police-Beating-Death-Ron-Thomas-Mother-Settlement-151651455.html

    http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-354394-settlement-court.html

    When cops batter innocent men the word officer no longer applies.


  • #218
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    When cops batter innocent men the word officer no longer applies.

    They are just Bad to the Bone. I will be monitoring this trial but it will be 2/3 months before we hear a verdict.

    I ponder on this case and I am thinking as to the security of the jury ? well think of it, in a small state like Fullerton California i'm sure the Fullerton police can/will threaten any member of the jury into a not Guilty verdict, as i said i'm just pondering...

    I just hope that after 2/3 months when the trial ends that people here and in the United States will remember this. These two nutcases have to be done, we all seen the solid proof, A few months to go so time out till the verdict.


  • #219
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    FULLERTON – The two Fullerton police officers facing charges in the death of Kelly Thomas have received letters from the acting police chief saying he has decided to fire them from the department.

    Source: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/thomas-355823-officers-ramos.html


  • #220
    shampoosuicide
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭shampoosuicide


    Bambi wrote: »
    Violent scene is shocking shock :eek:

    How not to get beaten up by de coppers 101:

    Do: comply with lawful directions.

    Don't: tell them your sick of being told what to do and then run off

    jesus christ.

    i genuinely hope you experience some police brutality some day.

    Mod note:user banned


  • #221
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    They are dragging this on so far as to make most people forget it ever happened, well that's not going to happen.

    Until January 18th. They have to go down.

    Source: http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-379238-fullerton-defense.html

    By LARRY WELBORN and VIK JOLLY / THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER SANTA ANA – A hearing on a defense motion to dismiss charges against two former Fullerton police officers accused of beating a mentally ill homeless man to death in July 2011 was postponed Friday at the request of defense attorneys.

    Orange County Superior Court Judge William Froeberg delayed the hearing until Jan. 18 after defense attorneys John Barnett and Michael Schwartz filed a request for a continuance to prepare additional legal briefs.

    Barnett represents former Fullerton policeman Manuel Ramos, 38, who in September 2011 became the first police officer in Orange County history to be charged with murder for an incident that occurred while on duty and in uniform. He faces a possible 15-year term in prison if convicted of second-degree murder for the death of Kelly Thomas.


    Thomas' father, Ron Thomas, asked Froeberg to give his son his day in court, saying 14 months had passed since the policemen were charged.
    "In the interest of my son, sir," he asked, "that we move ahead in a speedy manner.


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  • #222
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    zenno wrote: »
    They are dragging this on so far as to make most people forget it ever happened, well that's not going to happen.

    I doubt they're hoping people forget.. No doubt just like here a prosecution can take a long time to come to trial.

    I'm waiting almost two years for a trail date to be set for an assault I was a witness to, a man was glassed in the head in a bar.. This is one of a few I'm waiting for, its a long process.

    I also get where Bambi is coming from!.

    People here think they're desensitized to witnessing violence, what they mean is they're used to watching a lot of youtube clips but that every once in a whle they come across one which is worse, more graphic than all the others.. Probably close to 99% of people here haven't seen a violent incident since a school yard fight back in the day.

    Some people are very, very violent and almost have to be beaten within an inch of their lives before they'll stop fighting.. Unfortunately in this case the someone died and people are being brought to account for it.

    The fact that the man is homeless and a little touched doesn't mean a thing when he's uncooperative.

    Pity he died. Poor man, it was an horrific way to die.


  • #223
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    I doubt they're hoping people forget.. No doubt just like here a prosecution can take a long time to come to trial.

    I'm waiting almost two years for a trail date to be set for an assault I was a witness to, a man was glassed in the head in a bar.. This is one of a few I'm waiting for, its a long process.

    I also get where Bambi is coming from!.

    People here think they're desensitized to witnessing violence, what they mean is they're used to watching a lot of youtube clips but that every once in a whle they come across one which is worse, more graphic than all the others.. Probably close to 99% of people here haven't seen a violent incident since a school yard fight back in the day.

    Some people are very, very violent and almost have to be beaten within an inch of their lives before they'll stop fighting.. Unfortunately in this case the someone died and people are being brought to account for it.

    The fact that the man is homeless and a little touched doesn't mean a thing when he's uncooperative.

    Pity he died. Poor man, it was an horrific way to die.

    Did you actually watch the video?, at what point did the poor victim in the case fight the cops?. I haven't watched the video in months but I can still remember the poor guys screams as they sat on him.


  • #224
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Patrick2010 wrote: »
    Did you actually watch the video?, at what point did the poor victim in the case fight the cops?. I haven't watched the video in months but I can still remember the poor guys screams as they sat on him.

    Yup looked it at he resisted arrest from the start. In fact the cops body language prior to things turning violent makes me believe he knew the man had the potential for violence.

    I've seen people beat worse and live.

    The screams don't bother me, people scream all the time.


  • #225
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    Yup looked it at, I've seen people beat worse and live.

    The screams don't bother me, people scream all the time.

    Those slavers convicted in court yesterday apparently did a lot of screaming too.


  • #226
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Those slavers convicted in court yesterday apparently did a lot of screaming too.

    What are you talking about?.


  • #227
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    I doubt they're hoping people forget.. No doubt just like here a prosecution can take a long time to come to trial.

    I'm waiting almost two years for a trail date to be set for an assault I was a witness to, a man was glassed in the head in a bar.. This is one of a few I'm waiting for, its a long process.

    I also get where Bambi is coming from!.

    People here think they're desensitized to witnessing violence, what they mean is they're used to watching a lot of youtube clips but that every once in a whle they come across one which is worse, more graphic than all the others.. Probably close to 99% of people here haven't seen a violent incident since a school yard fight back in the day.

    Some people are very, very violent and almost have to be beaten within an inch of their lives before they'll stop fighting.. Unfortunately in this case the someone died and people are being brought to account for it.

    The fact that the man is homeless and a little touched doesn't mean a thing when he's uncooperative.

    Pity he died. Poor man, it was an horrific way to die.

    This man Kelly Thomas was beaten to death by police officers and if you cannot see this in plain view then i cannot help you see it.

    If you had watched the full audio & video then you can plainly see that this was a murder by cop. I don't need to explain it at this stage in time, everyone can see it Crystal clear.

    Any person that would consider this footage as acceptable in any shape or form needs to look at the audio and video evidence.


  • #228
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    zenno wrote: »
    This man Kelly Thomas was beaten to death by police officers and if you cannot see this in plain view then i cannot help you see it.

    If you had watched the full audio & video then you can plainly see that this was a murder by cop. I don't need to explain it at this stage in time, everyone can see it Crystal clear.

    Any person that would consider this footage as acceptable in any shape or form needs to look at the audio and video evidence.

    I think you're just trying to provoke an argument from me, you won't get one.

    I think the poor man took an awful beating, but the cops are facing trial and if they're convicted (I think they will be) then they'll face the consequences of their actions.

    Having said that I think the man initiated things.


  • #229
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    What are you talking about?.

    The traveller family who was convicted of slavery in England. They did a lot of screaming when convicted. Doesn't mean they were being mistreated.


  • #230
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    MagicSean wrote: »
    The traveller family who was convicted of slavery in England. They did a lot of screaming when convicted. Doesn't mean they were being mistreated.

    You've totally lost me.


  • #231
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    Yup looked it at he resisted arrest from the start. In fact the cops body language prior to things turning violent makes me believe he knew the man had the potential for violence.

    I've seen people beat worse and live.

    The screams don't bother me, people scream all the time.

    That's the way you see it but I disagree and think that attitude toward a murder like this is Bollox in my opinion. Hard man are ye and no matter what injustice you see whether a murder or a few screams won't bother you.

    The point in all this is the fact that a man with psychological personal problems was beaten to death by the people that are supposed to be there to serve and protect citizens but they left an innocent homeless man in a pool of blood screaming for his dad as he was violently murdered.

    Yes screaming for his dad, because he was on the edge of death.

    Some people huh.


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  • #232
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    You've totally lost me.

    Sorry. You said people scream for all kinds of reasons and it wasn't an indicator of anything. I was indicating another instance where people were reported as screaming which was nothing to do with being attacked.


  • #233
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    zenno wrote: »
    That's the way you see it but I disagree and think that attitude toward a murder like this is Bollox in my opinion. Hard man are ye and no matter what injustice you see whether a murder or a few screams won't bother you.

    These mans screams don't bother me in the least tbh.
    zenno wrote: »
    The point in all this is the fact that a man with psychological personal problems was beaten to death by the people that are supposed to be there to serve and protect citizens but they left an innocent homeless man in a pool of blood screaming for his dad as he was violently murdered.

    I doubt he was intentionally murdered, quit with the hysterics ffs.
    zenno wrote: »
    Yes screaming for his dad, because he was on the edge of death.

    People scream all the time, even those who aren't dying.

    Poor man.


  • #234
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Sorry. You said people scream for all kinds of reasons and it wasn't an indicator of anything. I was indicating another instance where people were reported as screaming which was nothing to do with being attacked.

    Ah grand, I didn't read all the news from the last few days.


  • #235
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    I think you're just trying to provoke an argument from me, you won't get one.

    I think the poor man took an awful beating, but the cops are facing trial and if they're convicted (I think they will be) then they'll face the consequences of their actions.

    Having said that I think the man initiated things.

    Emm...an argument ? no. Why would i provoke an argument ?

    You have taken my post up wrong. I am debating and updating on an old situation of which this thread relates to, so I don't know why you are insinuating this.

    As a martial arts person you should know and understand intelligent mental thought, visualizations of compassion in real life situations of serious incidents like this, especially murder by cop.

    But this bollox you say..... "I've seen people beat worse and live. The screams don't bother me, people scream all the time. is words from an uneducated/childish person IMO.


  • #236
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    zenno wrote: »
    But this bollox you say..... "I've seen people beat worse and live. The screams don't bother me, people scream all the time. is words from an uneducated person IMO.

    You see when you continually use language like ''bollox'' you lose any credibility with me and its hard to think of you being anything other than hysterical.


  • #237
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    You see when you continually use language like ''bollox'' you lose any credibility with me and its hard to think of you being anything other than hysterical.

    I don't want anything to do with you.

    I just updated this thread and i'll leave it at that.

    This isn't FM-104


  • #238
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    how much force would be needed to take down a homeless man? he hardly posed a significant threat
    they could have tazered him once or tackled him to the ground and handcuffed him you cant say the force they used was reasonable

    what they did was murder and a gross abuse of power


  • #239
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,411 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    anyone who thinks that was in anyway reasonable force needs their heads examined, one of those cops would have been able to handle him no bother (considering they where all at least double the size of him).

    absolutely sickening when you hear him saying "daddy their killing me" :(


  • #240
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    how much force would be needed to take down a homeless man? he hardly posed a significant threat
    they could have tazered him once or tackled him to the ground and handcuffed him you cant say the force they used was reasonable

    It takes a fair amount of force to take someone to the ground if they don't want to go there, I've no idea what preceded this arrest but from looking at it unless he was a wanted fugitive the cops should have just let him run off into the night, its not likely he's be hard to find again.


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  • #241
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    There will always be jerks in the world who believe that assaults from the police are ok if the person was "asking for it". You get people bashing victims of crime as "asking for it" in almost every area of violent crime, and arguing with such people is a waste of time. They don't seem to understand that certain behavior is unacceptable under any circumstances whatsoever. There IS no potential defense here. What those cops did was wrong, and there is absolutely no possible justification for it. It doesn't matter what they guy did, he was not a threat to their lives ergo they had no right to take his. Period. Force is only acceptable to the point where you can subdue someone who is violently resisting arrest. This guy was on the ground helpless. There can be no justification for the violence continuing beyond that point.


  • #242
    jomc
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭jomc


    This thread ( and a fair number of responses) make me feel so sickened with the world we live in. In no way at all was the attack justified. Its quite clear that the cops went far beyond reasonable force and they knew it to, especially with the comments of these are the fists that are going to **** you up while putting on latex gloves, and the i can't breathe...i'm sorry thing. They knew what they were doing and there is no defence for that.

    Saying the paramedics caused his death??? Seriously, wtf! They should be charged for slander for that


  • #243
    Think_then_talk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 245 ✭✭Think_then_talk


    cop a:2:04 like its seems everyday we have to talk about sumit,,,do you enjoy it.
    cop a:3:04 I asked you your birthday.reply I dont know.
    cop a:3:52 kelly thomas
    cop a:3:54 kelly thomas
    cop a:3:56 kelly thomas
    cop a:3:58 kelly thomas
    cop b:4:04 something kelly
    cop a:4:08 whats your first name?
    cop a 4:58 tell me your name and i'll let you move on.
    cop a 4:59 i don't know your name.
    cop a 5:04 you wount tell me your name?
    https://docs.google.com/a/thefullertonian.com/file/d/0B1Y4_hVm0vbEcXQ2a2VPVWR5aVU/edit?pli=1

    I know persons who suffer from Schizophrenia they dont know their birthday. In fact they find it hard to recognize groups relationships ie: aunt uncle cousin. This is a very sad case lets hope police learn from it.


  • #244
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    This situation like Kelly Thomas goes on all the time in all countries but it's usually very hard to get audio & video recordings of such murders of which in this case here were able to be sent worldwide via youtube and such with proof of assault/murder.

    In Makikomi's reply, maybe he seen a lot of this bad happenings to people and is just acclimated to it and doesn't see it like the rest of us mere mortals see murder. I don't know and I don't have a problem with the guy but as I said before...This is an injustice and I hope real law and justice come to fruition.


  • #245
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    It takes a fair amount of force to take someone to the ground if they don't want to go there, I've no idea what preceded this arrest but from looking at it unless he was a wanted fugitive the cops should have just let him run off into the night, its not likely he's be hard to find again.

    if your a lot bigger as the police officers were its not that hard.

    they should have used reasonable force police cant do what they want there is a point when you stop

    take mma for example if you get full mount and start dropping bombs on someones face the fight will be stopped


  • #246
    zenno
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,377 ✭✭✭zenno


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    It takes a fair amount of force to take someone to the ground if they don't want to go there, I've no idea what preceded this arrest but from looking at it unless he was a wanted fugitive the cops should have just let him run off into the night, its not likely he's be hard to find again.

    Why don't you watch the video before you post again please.


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  • #247
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    if your a lot bigger as the police officers were its not that hard.

    they should have used reasonable force police cant do what they want there is a point when you stop

    The first two cops look fat and unfit, I'd say they find it hard to drop their cacks tbh..

    I'm not sure anyone suggested reasonable force was used, sometimes unreasonable force must be used.. Excessive force is another thing altogether.. But I don't think the cops set out to murder the guy otherwise a bullet in the head would have been easier.


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    take mma for example if you get full mount and start dropping bombs on someones face the fight will be stopped

    MMA is a sport with a rule set and a referee, and you're wrong. You can drop bombs onto someone's face in MMA, the fight is only stopped if the ground fighter can not or is not intelligently defending themselves.


  • #248
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    zenno wrote: »
    I don't want anything to do with you.

    I just updated this thread and i'll leave it at that.
    zenno wrote: »
    Why don't you watch the video before you post again please.

    Less than an hour, I've dated girls who've held grudges longer :p


  • #249
    laoch na mona
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,966 ✭✭✭laoch na mona


    Jamir Beautiful Wallflower wrote: »
    .


    MMA is a sport with a rule set and a referee, and you're wrong. You can drop bombs onto someone's face in MMA, the fight is only stopped if the ground fighter can not or is not intelligently defending themselves.

    exactly once its gone far enough to achieve the desired result (victory)
    police should stop was desired result (arrest) was achieved


  • #250
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    how much force would be needed to take down a homeless man? he hardly posed a significant threat

    That's a pretty stupid question to be honest. It depends on the person. Some people have no off switch and will fight with all their strength until they have no energy left. You'd be surprised at how much strength a person can muster when flooded with adrenaline. And you aren't simply taking them down. You are trying to restrain them and prevent them injuring you at the same time.

    Having said that, I thought the Americans had procedures for escalating their level of force in stages which seem to have been ignored here. I can see the excessive force charge being upheld, maybe the manslaughter too. I can't see the murder charge being successful


  • #251
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    laoch na mona wrote: »
    exactly once its gone far enough to achieve the desired result (victory)
    police should stop was desired result (arrest) was achieved

    Well they clearly didn't and now they're going to trial for their actions.

    Why are you comparing a violent incident which resulted in the death of a man with a sport, you're comparing apples and oranges tbh.


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