Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

GerM · 09-04-2012 4:59pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

Dennis Hickie was said to have flat out refused to play for Ireland under Kidney.

I doubt that.

Podge_irl · 09-04-2012 5:00pm

GerM wrote: »

I doubt that.

Hickie retired while EOS was still coach.

yosser hughes · 09-04-2012 5:01pm

See attachment for Best interview.Apologies for the picture quality.

dougieruggie · 09-04-2012 5:12pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Hickie retired while EOS was still coach.

Sorry meant to say Leinster.

Podge_irl · 09-04-2012 5:18pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

Sorry meant to say Leinster.

Odd how he played for Leinster 18 times that season so.

Fishooks12 · 09-04-2012 5:26pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Odd how he played for Leinster 18 times that season so.

dougieruggie · 09-04-2012 5:28pm

Where did I say he didn't play? I just said he was meant to have flat out refused to play for Kidney. The fact that he ended up falling into line is irrelevant.

Fishooks12 · 09-04-2012 5:30pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

Where did I say he didn't play? I just said he was meant to have flat out refused to play for Kidney. The fact that he ended up falling into line is irrelevant.

Where's the source for this quote by the way?

dougieruggie · 09-04-2012 5:35pm

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Where's the source for this quote by the way?

Sorry I was wrong it wasn't Hickie it was actually Brian O'Driscoll. From Knox's interview in the IT

Knox has launched another withering attack on Munster boss Declan Kidney.

Kidney is set to quit the Heineken Cup finalists this summer to take over as the new Ireland boss and Knox savaged the Cork native’s appointment to the position in an interview which appeared in an Irish broadsheet on Tuesday morning.

Just hours after that article surfaced, Knox was interviewed on Newstalk radio to explain his views further.

Indeed, the Australian, who quit Leinster to return home earlier this year, lashed out at Kidney for the manner in which he left the same province in 2005.

Kidney explained at the time that he was leaving Leinster for 'family reasons' but Knox felt that that was a lamentable excuse.

“He wasn’t in Australia, he was two hours down the road," he argued. "He wasn’t in Australia or New Zealand. I reckon he’d get there [Cork] quicker than paramedics!

”It’s two hours away [Cork from Dublin]. What sort of reason is that? Let’s be serious about it.”

Knox also claimed that Ireland and Leinster captain Brian O’Driscoll became so disillusioned during Kidney’s spell in Donnybrook that the centre was ready to move overseas.

“I hate to bring Brian into it, but when I arrived here Brian said he was going to leave Leinster because he hadn’t learned anything the whole year under Declan Kidney, who, by the way, left halfway through the season,” he claimed.

”Three years later he’s [O’Driscoll] endorsing it [Kidney’s appointment]. I understand that because he’s going to have to play under that coach. But let’s not forget what he said three years ago.”

Knox continued: “He [O’Driscoll] can’t retire, can he? He can’t say ‘I’m not going to play’. What I’m trying to say is let’s not forget three years ago, when he was coaching Leinster and he left halfway through the year.”

Knox then attacked Munster boss Kidney for a perceived misuse of former All Blacks winger Doug Howlett, who joined the province earlier in the year.

“I reckon I’ve counted Doug Howlett touching the ball - and I’m not counting running back inside the quarter and kicking the ball up the field, or going back in counter attack - about ten or twenty times this season,” he stated.

”I cannot remember him touching the ball in a set play that’s gone through the backs like we use with Luke Fitzgerald and Rob Kearney and Shane Horgan. I think he’s scored two tries, and they’ve both been from turnover balls.

”This guy is probably one of the best finishers in the history of the game. He’s probably being paid 4/500,000 dollars. Are you getting value out of him?

”Yeah, you’re in the Heineken Cup and he scored a try at a crucial time. But let’s look at how he scored that try, by chasing a kick. I’m just saying that a player like that, if he was playing for Leinster, he would have scored 20 to 30 tries this season.”

Knox then turned his attention to Munster’s fly-half, Ronan O’Gara, a player he believes often struggles in high-pressure situations.

”It’s not coincidental that he plays well when you’ve got 80,000 people on your back,” he said.

”But I would say 40 percent of the time that he’s unable to do it in a real pressure situation. Like the World Cup.

”Everyone was saying before the World Cup Ronan O’Gara is in the same bracket as Daniel Carter, who’s the best player in the world. Well, in the World Cup we saw how far off the ball that was.”

Knox claimed, though, that O'Gara and many of his fellow Ireland internationals had been severely restricted by the game plan that was forced upon them by former head coach Eddie O'Sullivan during the World Cup.

”I didn’t see any evolvement in their play. It was exactly the same thing,” he argued.

”It was the forwards trying to go as far as you can and then try to give the ball to Gordon D’Arcy or Brian O’Driscoll. They just played the same way. And I think teams worked that out.

”You had to be aggressive with their forward pack, stop their go-forward. Then you just man-mark O’Driscoll and D’Arcy.

”D’Arcy’s not going to pass the ball too much because he’s been instructed to run into a brick wall and poor Brian O’Driscoll’s on his own, supposed to create miracles, which he did against Argentina. I think Ireland would have lost that game 40-0 if Brian O’Driscoll didn’t play.

”But I think they needed someone to look at the game and use a bit more decoy on these plays, use a few plays. But they just did nothing....

”I wasn’t in the dressing room but I could tell by the way Gordon played. I don’t think he released a ball in the whole World Cup. I don’t think he released a ball in the 6 Nations that I’ve been here for.

”He was just running, and successfully 50 percent of the time. When it got to the World Cup I didn’t see him make a break. I didn’t see him pass the ball too much so I’m assuming he was instructed as such.”

duckysauce · 09-04-2012 10:23pm

sour grapes from knox , if you have family problems who is someone else to question them , life can be a ****, bring back cooder :eek:

padser · 09-04-2012 11:22pm

dougieruggie wrote: »

Posted in anther thread. Comments from Rory Best (talking about the exlusion of Henry,Marshall,Gilroy,Touhy):

Those guys are playing some of the best rugby of their careers and haven't got the recognition they deserve.But we can sit and complain about Munster players getting the nod or ask why they win those tight calls.

What does everyone make of that?

I think people are making a lot out of nothing here. The final line to me suggests he is saying there is a reason Munster guys win tight calls (because Munster win games other teams would lose).

shuffol · 09-04-2012 11:33pm

padser wrote: »

I think people are making a lot out of nothing here. The final line to me suggests he is saying there is a reason Munster guys win tight calls (because Munster win games other teams would lose).

Which is fair enough but even that argument carries little weight these days.

Fishooks12 · 10-04-2012 12:19am

dougieruggie wrote: »

Sorry I was wrong it wasn't Hickie it was actually Brian O'Driscoll. From Knox's interview in the IT

So what you're originally claiming was a direct quote from Hickie has now turned into some bull**** hearsay from a clearly sour Knox in relation to something BOD allegedly said ?

Pinch of salt will be taken in future......

Clegg · 10-04-2012 12:31am

Kidneys time at Leinster was fairly disasterous. He showed loyalty to players who were out of form and set out a negative gameplan for them to play with.

Remember, this is when BOD was at his very best, and Kidney wanted us to play percentage rugby.

Madness.

Fishooks12 · 10-04-2012 12:37am

Clegg wrote: »

Kidneys time at Leinster was fairly disasterous. He showed loyalty to players who were out of form and set out a negative gameplan for them to play with.

Remember, this is when BOD was at his very best, and Kidney wanted us to play percentage rugby.

Madness.

Somethings never change!

Clegg · 10-04-2012 12:46am

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Somethings never change!

Hes followed the same strategy for his entire managerial career and it was successful for him at Munster. But his reign at Leinster was disappointing and his term at Ireland is definitely heading the same way.

Deccie is a decent coach if you want to play 10 man rugby. But hes clueless when he needs to play an attacking game. He couldnt develop a style suitable for Leinster and so far he has been woeful in developing a sound strategy for Ireland.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 18-04-2012 11:22am

Not really sure where to put this, but Quinnie has another great article in the Times today. He talks about player's salarys and its great to have some actually input on their earnings. The dig at soccer players is great too.

The full article can be found here, but I'll put an excerpt below.

Alan Quinlan - From the Blindside wrote:

In Ireland, none of the provinces cover costs from year to year. Player salaries, staff salaries, travel costs, rental of facilities – they all cost more money than the provinces are able to bring in. All four of them lose money for the IRFU, who make it back through the international game.

People assume that there’s lots of money in the game because it’s a professional sport but every cent somehow finds a home quickly enough.

At a player’s level, there’s a living to be made and careers are short. Say if you’re a non-international player in the English Premiership, the average salary would be in the region of £125,00-£150,000 a year (about €152,000-€182,000 a year).

An international will make around double that with match fees and bonuses on top.

As most people know, the money in France can go a lot higher, with the top guys making up to €750,000 a year.

But then, a club like Toulouse works off an annual budget of over €30 million. In Ireland, the four provinces combined wouldn’t come close to that.

Munster’s total budget for the year is somewhere around the €5 million mark so the idea of trying to match the salaries on offer in France is a non-starter.

A young guy coming out of the academy in Ireland would expect a first contract of maybe €35,000 and it goes up in levels from there on. A provincial player who’s a regular but not an international will make between €85,000 and €120,000 a year, but that rises if and when he becomes an international.

A top-class overseas international will be up there with the top Irish earners, earning anything from €250,000 upwards.

It sounds like a lot of money if you’re a punter sitting in the stand but as I say, careers are short.

Is Quinlan currently the best rugby journalist in the country? Every one of his articles has been top notch and extremely honest.

Otacon · 18-04-2012 1:27pm

I really like his articles. They seem like a conversation you would have with him or something.

bamboozle · 18-04-2012 1:40pm

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Not really sure where to put this, but Quinnie has another great article in the Times today. He talks about player's salarys and its great to have some actually input on their earnings. The dig at soccer players is great too.

The full article can be found here, but I'll put an excerpt below.

Is Quinlan currently the best rugby journalist in the country? Every one of his articles has been top notch and extremely honest.

Gerry Thornley, Liam Toland and Matt Williams for me. no complaints with Quinlan though. Used like Bob Casey's articles.

ray jay · 18-04-2012 1:45pm

If that €5m figure is true, that means the salary cap in England is more than Munster's entire budget. So much for money holding them back!

irishbucsfan · 18-04-2012 1:47pm

England announce 2 games against SA Barbarians this summer.

Frustrating. We should he playing midweek games.

totallegend · 18-04-2012 1:49pm

ray jay wrote: »

If that €5m figure is true, that means the salary cap in England is more than Munster's entire budget. So much for money holding them back!

Except the salaries of the centrally contracted guys like POC, Leamy, DOC, ROG, Earls don't come out of Munster's budget.

GerM · 18-04-2012 1:51pm

Whilst it's an interesting and well written article, I struggle to get on board with its argument. These guys are on brilliant money by a normal persons standard. That's not the superstars, that's the normal Pro12 players who, by Quinlan's admission, earn about €35k out of the academy at about 22 years of age and go on to earn €80k - €120k. A trainee accountant will earn about €20k out of college and spend 3 years on a training contract working serious hours for some perspective. Throughout this there's nothing to stop a player furthering themselves in terms of education or skills. Many players complete full degrees and postgraduate courses during their career. Some, like Tony Buckley, learn trades. A lucky few, like Quinlan, get careers in the game where he earns a third of what he was on before he retired which one would assume is around €50k to write and talk about rugby. Many do that for free. They then get a huge pay out at the end of their careers when their tax refund comes through. They're not set for life but they've a massive boost that others don't.

Can you imagine being a well paid professional who works hard for 10 years on an average of €80k and at the age of 32 getting your tax back? Harsh reality? There's nothing realistic about that for 99% of people, Quinnie.

jm08 · 18-04-2012 1:53pm

totallegend wrote: »

Except the salaries of the centrally contracted guys like POC, Leamy, DOC, ROG, Earls don't come out of Munster's budget.

Dont the rfu pay the clubs extra money that supply internationals which would equate to central contracts?

Podge_irl · 18-04-2012 2:17pm

jm08 wrote: »

Dont the rfu pay the clubs extra money that supply internationals which would equate to central contracts?

They do but it's not even a remotely comparable figure.

justsomebloke · 18-04-2012 2:22pm

ray jay wrote: »

If that €5m figure is true, that means the salary cap in England is more than Munster's entire budget. So much for money holding them back!

The English salary cap is £4m which is less then €5m and as already stated the centrally contracted players wages would then be paid by the IRFU and not the province

Otacon · 18-04-2012 2:25pm

GerM wrote: »

Whilst it's an interesting and well written article, I struggle to get on board with its argument. These guys are on brilliant money by a normal persons standard. That's not the superstars, that's the normal Pro12 players who, by Quinlan's admission, earn about €35k out of the academy at about 22 years of age and go on to earn €80k - €120k. A trainee accountant will earn about €20k out of college and spend 3 years on a training contract working serious hours for some perspective. Throughout this there's nothing to stop a player furthering themselves in terms of education or skills. Many players complete full degrees and postgraduate courses during their career. Some, like Tony Buckley, learn trades. A lucky few, like Quinlan, get careers in the game where he earns a third of what he was on before he retired which one would assume is around €50k to write and talk about rugby. Many do that for free. They then get a huge pay out at the end of their careers when their tax refund comes through. They're not set for life but they've a massive boost that others don't.

Can you imagine being a well paid professional who works hard for 10 years on an average of €80k and at the age of 32 getting your tax back? Harsh reality? There's nothing realistic about that for 99% of people, Quinnie.

How many trainee accountants need to follow strict diets, participate in gruelling physical training and basically endure a beating every few days?

Being a professional rugby player is a good life mostly. I think Quinnie is just saying 'Don't think we are like soccer players!'.

Also, from the article 'I’m not saying “Poor me” – not at all. Just trying to give you an idea of what happens.'

shaungil · 18-04-2012 2:26pm

bamboozle wrote: »

Gerry Thornley, Liam Toland and Matt Williams for me. no complaints with Quinlan though. Used like Bob Casey's articles.

Plus one on Quinlan so far . He still has plenty to write about but then I did think Caseys at the start were far better than towards the end. I'd like to see someting along the lines of the Secret Footballer so a current player giving some honest opinion but of course anonymously.

Matt Williams stuff is awful. It's often not about rugby (his uncle dying missing a plane) this week was random quotes and a copy of Quinlans re Sevens a few weeks back. He must watch rugby in his role with Setanta I wish he'd write about that. Also he seems to credit for anything good Leinster Ulster or Scotland ever do. Rant over re MW.

totallegend · 18-04-2012 2:29pm

jm08 wrote: »

Dont the rfu pay the clubs extra money that supply internationals which would equate to central contracts?

Yeah, but that's in addition to the salary cap for the English clubs.

cb_ · 18-04-2012 3:15pm

Love the way he refers to Ashley Young as 'some diving little brat'!

shaungil · 18-04-2012 3:20pm

cb_ wrote: »

Love the way he refers to Ashley Young as 'some diving little brat'!

Can anyone remind me of any player diving when he was kicked up the ar$e by Fabian Pelous:eek:

Edit well hop around and then take a knee!!!!

GerM · 18-04-2012 3:27pm

Otacon wrote: »

How many trainee accountants need to follow strict diets, participate in gruelling physical training and basically endure a beating every few days?

Being a professional rugby player is a good life mostly. I think Quinnie is just saying 'Don't think we are like soccer players!'.

Also, from the article 'I’m not saying “Poor me” – not at all. Just trying to give you an idea of what happens.'

The diet and training aren't as gruelling as you make out. Sessions are intense, short and sharp. They're finished by 12.30pm on a lot of days. Players are not forced to adhere to certain foods and can have a few beers within reason. Nobody is beaten up every few days. The players put their bodies on the line but not every game has that intensity. Nobody was beaten up for Leinster last weekend, for example. Players lead relatively normal lives.

I'd like to think that most people realise they're nowhere near the earning level of football players. Whilst the aim of the article is to let people know that rugby players aren't set up for the rest of their days, it does seem a little out of touch with reality for the vast majority of people, throwing around serious figures as if they're the norm and it neglects to mention that they get a massive lump sum when they retire.

Teferi · 18-04-2012 3:33pm

GerM wrote: »

Players are not forced to adhere to certain foods

Pretty sure their diet is fairly strictly controlled. Have seen many players comment on it. Of course there is leeway for the midweek takeaway and they can have a few beers but it's not as open as you make it out to be either.

Higher · 18-04-2012 3:40pm

Teferi wrote: »

Pretty sure their diet is fairly strictly controlled. Have seen many players comment on it. Of course there is leeway for the midweek takeaway and they can have a few beers but it's not as open as you make it out to be either.

Not at all, the Leinster team can be seen daily eating in Nandos and Wagamama where they get a free meal everyday.

Teferi · 18-04-2012 3:52pm

Higher wrote: »

Not at all, the Leinster team can be seen daily eating in Nandos and Wagamama where they get a free meal everyday.

Have a look here.

Note this line in particular

they have prepared us a selection of the foods we're allowed to eat.

I've seen and heard a good few comments like this from players.

Of course the dietitians know that boys will be boys so muck will be taken into account.

You're mad if you think they can eat all the takeaway they want and still maintain the shape they are in or for it to not affect their game.

GerM · 18-04-2012 3:54pm

Teferi wrote: »

Pretty sure their diet is fairly strictly controlled. Have seen many players comment on it. Of course there is leeway for the midweek takeaway and they can have a few beers but it's not as open as you make it out to be either.

I'm not trying to make it sound open but if a player wants to have a few beers and a take away, they can have it. Obviously it can't be a regular occurrence but few people who play regularly to a decent standard, professional or amatuer, eats take-aways and drinks regularly. They've to ensure they get the right stuff into their bodies but they don't have to follow a tightly controlled diet. If they want a snack, they can have it. I've seen the players out for lunch enough times to know they've a certain amount of leeway. It's all within reason and they're given the responsibility of ensuring they eat the right things 90% of the time. I'm sure we've all seen the regular nods to Jo'burger, Crackbird, Juniors etc from the players.

jm08 · 18-04-2012 3:54pm

Higher wrote: »

Not at all, the Leinster team can be seen daily eating in Nandos and Wagamama where they get a free meal everyday.

That could get a bit boring eating chicken every day.

Keith Earl's diet and a typical day here:

http://www.independent.ie/health/diet-fitness/bodyclock-keith-earls-2848190.html

Seems to feature a lot of poached eggs, mackeral and chicken fillets.

shaungil · 18-04-2012 4:12pm

Went to a talk last week by the Leinster Nutritionist Emma McCrudden. Interesting talk also presented by Bryan Cullen and Des Ryan.

What was interesting from her perspective was that she highlighted diet is the one area they had little control over players as most food consumption is done away from training. She highlighted that players need to be educated particularly when they come from the home environment to living in digs or houses. She spoke of bring academy and sub academy lads shopping and doing cooking lessons for them as well.

Anecdotely we’ve all heard of or seen players fall into a chipper with a load of pints on them late at night however I’d think this is the exception and not the norm in this day and age

Higher · 18-04-2012 4:27pm

Thats all very well and good but I am good friends with two current players at Leinster and I can say for a fact that they go to Wagamama nearly every day. 4 Leinster players have a gold card at Nandos which entitles them and 4 guests to a free meal every day.

funky penguin · 18-04-2012 4:30pm

Well......it depends on what they order then, doesn't it?

Fishooks12 · 18-04-2012 4:36pm

this thread is getting me hungry

Timothy Bryce · 18-04-2012 4:39pm

A mate was on holidays with Felix Jones last summer and he was constantly onto Munster asking about what he could and couldn't eat/drink. My mate said he had to keep a full food diary of *everything* he ate....even had to provide the exact number of Tiger beers and 'Thai Buckets'. Easy in theory, difficult enough in practice - I know the last time I drank buckets, I only remember the first few sips before the lights went out (granted I'm a massive lightweight).

He was fairly new to the Irish/Munster setup at the time, but it still seems quite regimented.

jm08 · 18-04-2012 4:45pm

Higher wrote: »

Thats all very well and good but I am good friends with two current players at Leinster and I can say for a fact that they go to Wagamama nearly every day. 4 Leinster players have a gold card at Nandos which entitles them and 4 guests to a free meal every day.

Wagamama would be very healthy - raw fish, stir frys etc.

The Nandos Gold Card probably comes from announcing on twitter that they are going there and there is no risk that they will be there every day for a meal with their dietary requirements.

I've seen tweets from players announcing that they've had a square of chocolate and are feeling guilty about it.

durkadurka · 18-04-2012 4:45pm

Sexton said in some interview somewhere that if he had pizza then he wasn't allowed pepperoni or something.

GerM · 18-04-2012 4:47pm

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

had to provide the exact number of Tiger beers and 'Thai Buckets'.

it still seems quite regimented.

Does not compute.

Timothy Bryce · 18-04-2012 4:48pm

To be fair - Nando's wouldn't be terribly calorific if you're eating a half chicken and some corn on the cob.

Timothy Bryce · 18-04-2012 4:52pm

GerM wrote: »

Does not compute.

Aye - apparently got a bollocking over said.

MungBean · 18-04-2012 4:53pm

Is this discussion about the fact that they are forced to eat healthy if they want to play rugby and how that should be reflected in their wages ?

If you have a job that requires you to be fit your gonna have to control your diet, doesnt look like its that strict to me outside of the "eat healthy, get plenty of protein" side which anyone who wants to be fit will do anyway. So they aint really sacrificing anything as such.

totallegend · 18-04-2012 5:04pm

MungBean wrote: »

Is this discussion about the fact that they are forced to eat healthy if they want to play rugby and how that should be reflected in their wages ?

Apparently. Makes me yearn for the more sensible discussion about why Leinster players have better looking WAGs than the Munster guys.

Higher · 18-04-2012 5:08pm

jm08 wrote: »

Wagamama would be very healthy - raw fish, stir frys etc.

The Nandos Gold Card probably comes from announcing on twitter that they are going there and there is no risk that they will be there every day for a meal with their dietary requirements.

I've seen tweets from players announcing that they've had a square of chocolate and are feeling guilty about it.

Wrong. Only a couple of people in Ireland actually have a nandos gold card. These people are Brian O'Driscoll, Rob Kearney, Gordon D'arcy, Luke Fitzgerald and Jamie Heaslip. Fitzgerald, Kearney and Heaslip would bring a group of players with them most days.

Wagamama is free for all Leinster players, including those in the academy.