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UTV Clicksilver (BB) details for the Republic

13

Comments

  • #102
    flamegrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭flamegrill


    Originally posted by nan0dog

    Is there a static IP address with this package?

    Thats something we'll have to wait for the package details to go on their website.

    Paul


  • #103
    Sloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Sloth


    Well then I ask again why can't they go wireless?


  • #104
    flamegrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭flamegrill


    It isn't an option, UTV are not an ISP, they partner with one.


    Paul


  • #105
    sceptre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Originally posted by dahamsta
    More importantly, did any of you actually go and read Scott Taunton's posting on the costs involved in rolling this out? Have you worked out UTVi's margin? Subtraction? No?
    Nicely put Adam.

    I trust Scott's figures as provided because they're almost exactly what I worked out myself over the weekend.

    Ignoring the cap issue for the moment, the obvious problem with the price (as in "it's not 40 euros") is the €27 that goes directly to Eircom. From what others have posted, it's among the highest bitstream charges in Europe. That's still the big problem. Until that charge becomes less, we'll never see DSL at cheaper prices in this country.


  • #106
    p2p
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭p2p


    Netsource : €54 (ex domain)
    UTV : €47.50 + Switch to phone
    UNCAPPED
    5 GIG CAP

    € 27 euro is all they pay, its not and its far from it

    Point taken - but going by the above is this not down to how efficient the business is run etc to get support/extra/hidden costs as low as possible in order to maximise profit?
    netsource are having serious capacity issues at the moment

    capacity issues that any isp will have starting off
    novelty of bb etc - cap or no cap initial service will be bad

    [i'm just as annoyed as everyone else on netsource about this but i know netsource are working on it]

    - I'm all for a reasonable cap - to stave off warez monkeys that
    cause the problem in the first place
    - my nick is named after a 4th year project btw - not a indicator of
    crazy 10 gig a week p2p downloads
    it doesn't matter if they charge you 100 euro a month and give you a 50GB cap the contention ratio will kill the Service

    - does this mean netsource will introduce a cap on their service?
    - are there not similar services in the Uk with similar contention
    and no / high cap ?


  • #107
    Sloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Sloth


    I'm on the Netsource business package at 24:1 contention so contention isn't really an issue for me. How much does that cost for UTV to buy the business version wholesale off Eircom and would that be at all feasable for UTV?


  • #108
    flamegrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭flamegrill


    Originally posted by Sloth
    I'm on the Netsource business package at 24:1 contention so contention isn't really an issue for me. How much does that cost for UTV to buy the business version wholesale off Eircom and would that be at all feasable for UTV?


    That i've been having a think about :-), i wouldn't mind getting a service like that. AFAIK, its very costly, a minimum of a 45mbps connect to each exchange just to get it.

    i think it'll be a non runner for the time being, mind you Scott, Carl, Marlcom, Marty prove me wrong :-)


    Paul


  • #109
    Sloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Sloth


    Well lets look at Netsource business. I pay 110 a month for that and that includes a domain name, I think with a bit of work UTV could cut it down to about €80 a month but then they're pretty much ending up with the same thing as Netsource and it's too dear to attract the average bb customer which is the market that UTV are aiming to target. Argh, it would seem everything that can get rid of the cap leads to a dead end. You said that they only partner with an ISP...could they partner with a Wireless one and use combined funds to purchase more transmitters?


  • #110
    flamegrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭flamegrill


    Originally posted by Sloth
    Well lets look at Netsource business. I pay 110 a month for that and that includes a domain name, I think with a bit of work UTV could cut it down to about €80 a month but then they're pretty much ending up with the same thing as Netsource and it's too dear to attract the average bb customer which is the market that UTV are aiming to target. Argh, it would seem everything that can get rid of the cap leads to a dead end. You said that they only partner with an ISP...could they partner with a Wireless one and use combined funds to purchase more transmitters?

    Your in dublin I take it ? AFAIR netsource don't resell the biz product in dublin, and they don't offer it outside either.

    Jesus you have got a wireless bug of some sort? :-) UTv have a sweet thing going with their current provider, I can't seem them forking out more cash to buy transmitters.

    i don't think wireless is going to happen nationwide anytime soon.

    if it does, fair play but i cant see it.

    Paul


  • #111
    Synkronite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭Synkronite


    I for one would like to congratulate Scott, Malcolm and the whole UTVi team. They have come into the irish marketplace as under-dogs and earned respect from quite a few folks and have made it a pleasure for people to deal with.

    If nothing else, their interaction, willingness to listen is far beyond anyone else. Instead of moaning people, why not offer constructive criticism? Remember when UTVip was first announced, they changed the details of the package in response to feedback they got here. So far the posts here have been extremely mean and harsh to UTVi..

    Dont get disheartened, I know one of these days UTVi will be known as the company that changed Ireland and directly threatened Eircom/EsatBT's duopoly.

    Just have patience (When DSL first started in the UK they also had low caps/ high prices) Go read economics and econmies of scale folks before moaning about not being able to download your favourite movies in divx 24/7.


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  • #112
    Sloth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 832 ✭✭✭Sloth


    Yes I'm in Dublin, on the north side. I'm on the business Netsource package which is definitly the resold Eircom business package as interleaving is on at full whack.
    The reason I'm a big wireless fan should be obvious, 8:1 contention, low pings and if IBB launched where I live I could get a 1mb package for the same amount I pay now and enjoy super low pings.


  • #113
    Dustaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Dustaz


    I agree with Dahamstas Post 100%. As a moderator i probably shouldnt call people names but, hey spade a spade.

    There is so much uninformed nonsense in this thread.

    People do look at UTV through rose tinted glasses.....please note however - THERE IS A GOOD REASON FOR THIS.

    Utv have consistantly adjusted their products to what people actually want (in so far as they can). Eircom and Esat have not. UTV have been pro-active, Eircom and Esat have been re-active. There is a big difference. Search though the forum if you dont believe me, just dont knock them with stupid comments and illinformed scaremongering (Its funny how some people posting to a certain games board bleeting about unplayable 56k and how Broadband would change everything are swearing off a comparatively affordable service).


  • #114
    flamegrill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭flamegrill


    Originally posted by Sloth
    Yes I'm in Dublin, on the north side. I'm on the business Netsource package which is definitly the resold Eircom business package as interleaving is on at full whack.
    The reason I'm a big wireless fan should be obvious, 8:1 contention, low pings and if IBB launched where I live I could get a 1mb package for the same amount I pay now and enjoy super low pings.

    Ok, that I wasn't aware of, but As i said before they require mad capacity into the exchange to offer the business products.

    From what I've seen IBB are far from perfect aswell, bith slow downloads, bad pings here and there. The market for broadband is still in its infancy (which is mad, considering we are the e-hub of europe yadda yadda). This doesn't help anyone, but in 6 months time or so it'll be a different market place and i for one am looking forward to it.

    nn,

    Paul


  • #115
    Dustaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Dustaz


    For the benefit of those too lazy to click on the link posted earlier here is the full text of Scotts post regarding the breakdown of costing.
    Broadband - Caps, pricing etc...
    Prior to the announcement of our pricing and product specification for broadband, I thought I'd take the time to highlight some of the issues we've encountered, hopefully with a view to setting out some realism in terms of caps, contention, telephony and price. It should also give you some idea of the reason for our delay into the marketplace.

    <groan>

    RADSL, not unlike FRIACO, is VERY difficult to package in a competitive way. The reality is that the wholesale costs are prohibitive at best. See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...&threadid=99342 for a second opinion of that!

    As an exercise, I thought that I would set out the broad parameters under which we are offered the product on a wholesale basis. The following are the approximate prices under which Esat, Via and ourselves are offered service from Eircom.

    RADSL install charge (self install)

    €150.00. Attributed monthly over a prudent two year period, this is €6.25 per month.

    RADSL wholesale charge

    €27.00. Payable monthly per user.

    Backhaul of RADSL to OLO

    Can be ordered via 45Mb or 2Mb pipes. The most cost effective solution is to order a 45Mb pipe, which when fully utilised at 48:1 offers 4320 users. Install is approx €16k plus €72k p.a.

    Even with 90% utilisation of this pipe, and recouping the install over 24 months, this is €1.70 p.m. per user.

    Modem and filters

    Even wholesale, a dependable modem, two filters and delivery is around €75.00. Over 24 months, this is €3.12 pm.

    Bandwidth

    Without giving away our total bandwidth costs, including full redundancy, a 34Mb circuit is around €200k p.a. A user utilising 5GB of this monthly (a mere 1.92KB/s) represents around €7.56 per month in costs.

    So far we're at €45.65 monthly. VAT takes this up to €55.24. Excluding the bandwidth and modem, all of this goes to Eircom.

    Add to that the hardware at our end, modems, routers etc... Administration and office costs, billing, bad debt, marketing, call centre and tech support personnel all of which add a significant additional amount.

    Eircom retail their RADSL product at €54.45 and Esat €49.49. We expect to be competitive in terms of price, terms and support.

    I understand the concerns surrounding caps, contention etc., but the reality is that if everyone hammered the service it would not be viable.

    We will reserve the right to implement caps, either on a PAYG basis or through a step down in speed. We don't expect to need to use them and do not like the thought of having to implement them. We are no different to Esat or Eircom in that regard. As broadband becomes mainstream, the likelihood of anyone implementing them is low.

    Telephony helps us meet some of the costs of maintaining a service of this nature.

    We really are just looking to give consumers the best deal we can in what is a very difficult marketplace.

    I look forward to posting again tomorrow with full details of our offer.

    </groan>

    Kind regards

    Scott Taunton
    Managing Director
    UTV Internet


  • #116
    Valentia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,764 ✭✭✭Valentia


    For the benefit of those too lazy to click on the link posted earlier here is the full text of Scotts post regarding the breakdown of costing.

    Thanks Dust,

    I was just about to do it.

    Anyway, there has been an enormous amount written here in a short space of time. It's a lot to take in. I live in Trim, 28 miles from Dublin but the dinasours will be back before we get ADSL. Our only hope is Digiweb with their wireless offer. God knows how that will work out.

    I have to say tho' that those comments about rose tinted glasses and stuff drives me mad. UTV have been a brilliant provider for me (UTVip) and I haven't needed to contact customer support once. Totally consistant. Their openess has been a breath of fresh air, and though a cap is a pain in the ar$e there is feck all they can do about it. They are, once again, being transparent and reasonable in this telecoms desert we live in.

    I have registered and would go with them in the morning if my exchange was enabled. As for the telephone link with the offer, jeez it's not like they are charging a premium for voice calls, it actually costs less.


  • #117
    Chowley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Chowley


    The reason for that Dustaz is because, supposedly CS alone will be 30mb per hour.Then you add the map packs and skin packs if you want to customize it.Then you have updates.I have read that CS used to update fairly regularly, that could start again.Then you start playing other games , mods and updates become a problem.
    As I suspect it is me you were referring to I never said it was unplayable I play CS as often as I can on 56k servers I just think the lack of lag willl attract more people.
    The price is not a problem for me seeing as from what I have read its not going to come down any tie soon well all have to accept the price for a while.

    In the U.K it is 48:1 contention too isnt it.How do they get it to work smoothly when its uncapped?


  • #118
    Tazz T
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    A lot of people are missing out on one of the biggest bonuses the UTV BB offering brings - the opportunity to vote with your feet against eircom after all the years of being ripped off.

    So the UTV offering is just a euro or two less than Esat's. This hopefully is just the start of real competition in the Irish market. And that's a huge step from a new entrant in the market. I don't think anyone could have envisaged this a year or two years ago.

    We'd certainly never see eircom laying out the formula behind their pricing so clearly. UTV is obviously a company we can trust and one that will continue to offer products that are better value that the incumbents.

    I see this as just the beginning. Cheers UTV.


  • #119
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Well said Tazz T.

    adam


  • #120
    Mo'
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭Mo'


    I would just like to add a few words of praise for UTV for any of those that doubt their services.....

    I switched to the UTVip as soon as it was available as I was consistently handing over more than €250 to €300 a month to Eircon due to international calls and internet usage. Since switching, telephony and internet now costs me ± €180 to €200 a month...including the sub and line rental.
    I have only had occasion to ring the support line a couple of times and my problem has been delt with swiftly and efficiently.

    I'll probably have to wait a while to get BB as I am situated in North County Dublin but I will definitely wait until I can get it through UTV so that I never have to hand over a three figure cheque to the thieves at the national telecoms company.

    Keep it up u.tv :D


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  • #121
    Hyzepher
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hyzepher


    For me, the issue of value from UTV compared to the other providers is not the main issue here. For too long Ireland has been a desert in BB terms with little or no option bar subscribing to those b*****ds eircom.

    Now there are many options - albeit providing some inbuilt eircom services indirectly - but at least we have choice. With choice comes competition and with that better competitive rates.

    I dont think we will ever receive the levels of BB that other countries enjoy - economies of scale, location etc., but I do think that we will see a better offering as more and more providers get bigger user bases.

    The telecoms industry is becoming very competitive and news ways to receive added revenue are limited. BB is a new way - well at least here - and Eircom are not going to enjoy a decreased BB subscription as new providers come on board. We may well see competitive rates sooner than later.

    However, this all depends on the strangle hold eircom has over the lines. With this monopoly they are receiving revenue from BB subscriptions regardless who the provider is. This is anti-competitive and has to stop if we are to enjoy better rates etc.

    I say congratulations to UTV for having the guts to enter the market - we all know how hard it is to deal with eircom!! I also welcome any other provider that is prepared to deal with eircom's crap. Maybe with multiple providers eircom may feel some pressure to improve the system.

    Hyzepher


  • #122
    andrew163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭andrew163


    uhhhh i know im gonna get at least 5 or 6 replies about rose coloured glasses for saying this but....


    well done utv for doing everything in your power to give us the best you can........

    we need more companies like you.


  • #123
    echomadman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭echomadman


    Riddle me this netsourcer's and nay-sayers

    you complain about the cap, fair enough, but its been mathematically explained that at full capacity, theoretically you cannot physically exceed the 5 gb UTV are suggesting.
    You post about bad pings?
    Guess what its because you reserve your seemingly god given right to download incessantly,

    I wonder why Netsource didnt impose a cap.
    a: they didnt expect to be hammered so badly by the "linux ISO" crew
    b: they knew no-one would really be able to exceed it given the current spec of the product.

    Sloth you are not on RADSL, so your comments are really just adding fuel to an unneccesary fire.

    those of you who are straight up gamers, i understand your point about the risk of exceeding your cap, but compare and contrast to the cost of doing all this on dial up and isdn.
    maybe an uncapped offering isnt suitable for you though.
    as it stands at the moment unless you live in select areas, you cant have "cheap" uncapped D/Ls and amazing pings

    This is a first step into widely accesible BB in ireland, Its not on a par with other countries, yet, but its a start.
    The focus of this Forum and IOFFL itself is to heighten awareness.
    As more and more prople take up BB, they will become aware of its current limitations, and will demand more. Adding impetus to the "movement" :D
    one step at a time, people were asking where IOFFL will go now, this fight is only starting, (to use a little melodramatic license)

    I'm not happy with any of the current offerings, but I too appreciate UTVs relationship with this forum, and their own support thread is friendly and quick to respond to *any* query.
    In this land of begrudgers and brown envelopes, this is worth so much more than anything the other runners in this race have ever offered us.

    For those of you worried about surfing etc, adding to your cap, intstall a cacheing proxy on your machine, or on an older one that you may have lying around.
    Its a lot easier than you may think, and cuts a lot of your total BW usage.
    Block ads, they're annoying and are eating into your allowance&bandwidth like you wouldn't believe..

    anyway, well done UTV, best offer of a bad lot, and i'm sure you will continue to improve the service as circumstance allows:


  • #124
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    you complain about the cap, fair enough, but its been mathematically explained that at full capacity, theoretically you cannot physically exceed the 5 gb UTV are suggesting.

    5Gb is 5,000,000K is 40,000,000kbit.


    At 512kbit/sec it will take 78125 seconds to bust it at full speed.
    thats 1302.0833 (recurring) minutes
    or
    21.7013888(recurring) hours. Lets call it 22 hours for brevity.

    Less then one full day at full whack.


    You post about bad pings?
    Guess what its because you reserve your seemingly god given right to download incessantly,


    Someone asking for QoS on latency can also ask for decent d/l speeds. Unless he's d/ling at the time while he's play he isnt affecting his own latency. I dont know anyone who would d/l at the same time as playing if they wanted decent pings.

    DeV.


  • #125
    echomadman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭echomadman


    5Gb is 5,000,000K is 40,000,000kbit.


    At 512kbit/sec it will take 78125 seconds to bust it at full speed.
    thats 1302.0833 (recurring) minutes
    or
    21.7013888(recurring) hours. Lets call it 22 hours for brevity.

    Less then one full day at full whack.

    I was referring to the unlikely concept of everyone d/l constantly, which is what the ISP is gambling on not happening, at the current contention situation
    Someone asking for QoS on latency can also ask for decent d/l speeds. Unless he's d/ling at the time while he's play he isnt affecting his own latency. I dont know anyone who would d/l at the same time as playing if they wanted decent pings.

    Again , I'm just highlighting, the inherent flaws in the *current* offerings, wher QOS/Badwidth shaping is obviously not taking place
    as i said in the curent situation, serious gamers will most likely find uncapped offerings unsuitable.

    to quotew you from anther thread
    Look two *critical* points.

    1. RADSL Planned Contention happens BEFORE THE DATA EVER GETS TO THE RESELLING ISP... therefore this *entire* conversation is moot because unless the duopoly decide to alter the products they are offering you just have to put up with it (from a resellers pov).

    Do you think that if I could have tweaked options like this I would be talking to Wireless people?

    2. A major major major problem with contention current is that the upstream bandwidth IS THE SAME AS THE BANDWIDTH TO A SINGLE USER.
    therefore a single user can max out the line and start to cause contention.

    Joe Hog jumps on, starts warezing and suddenly everyone is getting crap connection and halving their speeds etc
    so say you finish your game of CS or what ever, then fire up Kazaa and mutate into Joe hog :D you are spoiling it for other users.
    I'm all for QOS,
    I was just trying to address an attitude prevalent in this thread where people wanted it all, right here, right now.
    I would too
    but its not realistic at the moment.
    take whats available and begin the campaign to see it improved


  • #126
    Delphi91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭Delphi91


    Originally posted by DeVore
    5Gb is 5,000,000K is 40,000,000kbit.


    At 512kbit/sec it will take 78125 seconds to bust it at full speed.
    thats 1302.0833 (recurring) minutes
    or
    21.7013888(recurring) hours. Lets call it 22 hours for brevity.

    Less then one full day at full whack.

    Actually, not wanting to split hairs, but 5GB is (5 x 1024 x 1024 x 1024 x 8)bits which is 42,949,673 kbits.

    At 512kbit/sec (which is 512 x 1024), it will take 81,920 seconds to reach this limit.

    81,920 seconds is 1365.333(recurring) minutes, which is 22.7555(recurring) hours, or 22 hours 45 minutes and 20 seconds.

    All the above comes from having f**k all to do for 10 minutes and handy access to a calculator!

    Mike


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  • #127
    andrew163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭andrew163


    Originally posted by Delphi91
    Actually, not wanting to split hairs, but 5GB is (5 x 1024 x 1024 x 1024 x 8)bits which is 42,949,673 kbits.

    At 512kbit/sec (which is 512 x 1024), it will take 81,920 seconds to reach this limit.

    81,920 seconds is 1365.333(recurring) minutes, which is 22.7555(recurring) hours, or 22 hours 45 minutes and 20 seconds.

    All the above comes from having f**k all to do for 10 minutes and handy access to a calculator!

    Mike

    *professor frink*
    Muh-hoy!


  • #128
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Ok I understand now what you were getting at with the inability to exceed the cap. I didnt realise you were talking about EVERYONE exceeding the cap simultaneously.

    I dont blame UTV for the possibility of a CAP being enforced. Its being forced on them really by market factors (ie 48:1 contention imho).
    so say you finish your game of CS or what ever, then fire up Kazaa and mutate into Joe hog you are spoiling it for other users.
    I'm all for QOS,
    I was just trying to address an attitude prevalent in this thread where people wanted it all, right here, right now.
    I would too
    but its not realistic at the moment.
    take whats available and begin the campaign to see it improved

    Some men ask "why?" others ask "why not?".


    To be fair to UTV.... this is another laboured and hobbled step in the right direction. Again they are pushing the envelope of what can be achieved within the confines of the wholesale offerings.

    The problem is that we need to step over dead bodies and find a second last-mile. I just dont trust ANYTHING where I have to rely on an incumbent to service me and on whom I would be reliant on for QoS.

    Fair dues to the UTV lads, they are braver then I, for tackling the grumpy giant who doesnt want to play ball. Ever. I've despaired of it and think that the only solution lies in really outside-the-box thinking and a radical rethink of last-mile.


    Onward, ever onward soldiers. :)

    DeV.


  • #129
    Nitrox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Nitrox


    Like most others i have been and still will be a happy UTV customer.
    Congrats on getting a "broadband" offer out there, but as long as there is still no real Broadband out there i just don't see the point in shifting just yet!
    In Denmark they are now offering everyone to upgrade to double of what they had and it can go all the way up to 8 Mbit at much less than you would pay for 1 here.
    I do not even want to go into what they got in Sweden and Norway, it is getting crazy there!!
    So i am still waiting for the day when baloons will be floating over Dublin offering all 10 Mbit full duplex for starters, if that does not arrive anytime soon i see no real future for Ireland so like most others i will be leaving.
    Fair play to you all who are happy with the current offers, as long as you know that most of your hard earned money is going in the pockets of the company who will ruin Ireland, yep, that would be Eircon!!


  • #130
    tomk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭tomk


    Originally posted by Nitrox
    .....so like most others i will be leaving.

    Most others? Have you done a survey?


  • #131
    rymus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭rymus


    great to see a new BB product on the market. Now all I have to do is sit patiently and wait 18+ months for Eircom to upgrade my local exchange (if they ever do).


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  • #132
    Stonemason
    Closed Accounts Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Stonemason


    Im glad and sad to see UTV finaly enter the BB market, glad because because they have proved to me at least they care about there customers not only from posting here but in all dealings regarding billing and connection speeds, the fact i never have to dial more than once to conect are prime examples.Sad because they were foolish enough to follow the pack and are now pimping for Eircom.Sorry to repeat myself but if any company that have the broadcasting knowlege that UTV has should have gone wireless and left eircom to wallow in there own crappulence.Dont bitch at UTV because Eircom make it impossible to bring out a cheaper product.


    Question

    If UTV got enough requests from an exchange would they be able to upgrade themselfs or will they have to go cap in hand to Eircom and ask them nicely if they would upgrade the exchange ?.

    I fink i already know the answer to that one :(

    Anyways Good luck UTV :D


  • #133
    David C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭David C


    Originally posted by Stonemason
    Sorry to repeat myself but if any company that have the broadcasting knowlege that UTV has should have gone wireless and left eircom to wallow in there own crappulence.Dont bitch at UTV because Eircom make it impossible to bring out a cheaper product.
    Perhaps UTV would consider such a wireless option still in the future to complement their RADSL service in the more populated centres of the country?
    It's the only real competition threat to Eircom as with wholesale DSL they're still making a bloody packet

    The more wireless & inovative products the better I say!


  • #134
    dahamsta
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,659 ✭✭✭✭dahamsta


    Originally posted by Stonemason
    If UTV got enough requests from an exchange would they be able to upgrade themselfs or will they have to go cap in hand to Eircom and ask them nicely if they would upgrade the exchange ?
    The latter, and Eircom's reaction will be defined by their ongoing relationship with UTVi and UTVi's relationship with Comreg. EsatBT meets regularly with Comreg to review orders and deal with problems, whereas Netsource doesn't. It remains to be seen which pays off though, since both are having problems.

    adam


  • #135
    p2p
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭p2p


    I understand all the points about mathematics of the cap etc
    but .....

    How are netsource able to do it for €54 ex domain with no cap?

    And why cant UTV do it for the same and make up the "loss" by making their telephone package mandatory ?


  • #136
    carbsy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,083 ✭✭✭carbsy


    Originally posted by p2p
    I understand all the points about mathematics of the cap etc
    but .....

    How are netsource able to do it for €54 ex domain with no cap?

    And why cant UTV do it for the same and make up the "loss" by making their telephone package mandatory ?

    DOH! Netsource are obviously making their profit from the domain part , ie most ppl will choose a dot com domain (which costs an average of £18 sterling for 2 years) whilst others won't even choose one.

    carb.


  • #137
    tomk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭tomk


    Originally posted by p2p
    How are netsource able to do it for €54 ex domain with no cap?

    Also, there are quite a few who are saying that Netsource are not able to do it:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100161


  • #138
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Originally posted by shinzon
    god i gotta laugh, i think as regards UTV a lot of you have rose coloured glasses and unfortunately wont see the problems until yere signed up for it, this is exactly the same type of responses that happpened when netsource came out, first praise and absolute adoration, then problems started and the backlash began so will say no more now and await the threads to start, and as for the cap itll be enforced cause the warez monkeys will abuse the service as always

    I'd have to agree with alot of the above,
    Only one thing, its a start
    Even if it is Eircoms product repackaged and resold its still a start and its still competion and thats good to!

    The more companys the more choice, and when it comes down to it if all these companys along with IOFFL get together and highlight all the problems then maybe, just maybe things will get better.


  • #139
    Martin-UTVi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Martin-UTVi


    Perhaps UTV would consider such a wireless option still in the future to complement their RADSL service in the more populated centres of the country?
    We have looked at wireless and done feasibility on various aspects of it....but its very restrictive. Line of sight, weather conditions permitting, limited range etc etc. To cover an area like Dublin or the greater Belfast area you could be looking at 6-12 aerials. This area though is one that is changing rapidly and something we are keeping an eye on (tethered ballons, new non line of sight technologies etc.) The cost of rolling out broadband on a wireless basis is very expensive whilst only covering a limited % of the population. And of course once you have terminated your wireless connection atop a tall mountain/building, who are you going to pay to backhaul it to your POP via fibre....?
    Now all I have to do is sit patiently and wait 18+ months for Eircom to upgrade my local exchange (if they ever do).
    Unless we roll out our own network (hugely expensive, 100's of millions of euros cost) we have to include Eircom in the equation in back hauling the line/data to us. Even Esat who have a fairly large network installed find it cheaper to wholesale the ADSL product from Eircom rather than roll out ADSL on their own (they do have their own ADSL network out there....but its expensive and business only I think). And because we all rely on Eircom, we will all have similar products with similar terms of service.

    Someone had mentioned earlier in this thread that UTV were not an ISP, but partnered with one......don't know where that came from, but UTV Internet (formerly DNA Internet) has been an ISP since 1995 :)

    Contention ratios and caps :rolleyes: I went into this in some detail in an earlier thread relating to some problems that NetSource/Eircom were having. It is absolutely unrealistic to expect a 1:1 contention ratio when surfing on the internet. If everybody with access to the net used it at the same time, it would crawl to a complete halt. The reason contention ratios work so well is that not everybody online is either doing the same thing or downloading all the time. But if a certian % of your users are always saturating their DSL line, then that group of people can have a detrimental effect on other users of the service. Now if a few % of your customer base can affect the quality of your entire service, surely it is just common sense to have something in your terms and conditions that allows an ISP to regulate their usage to the greater benefit of the majority of users?


  • #140
    Synkronite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 219 ✭✭Synkronite


    UTV- may you soar to great heights in the Irish market.

    Which other ISP explains itself, and its own t&cs as clearly and openly as UTV.

    Instead of criticizing what's not in their hands, let's use the energy to battle eircom's continuing abuse of its position in the market. Comreg, take note. Surely they realise that Eircom is dragging its heels in the matter.

    Is Minister Ahern aware of this board?


  • #141
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,063 ✭✭✭BKtje


    I'm no expert on this (as you'll see from my post) and i do understand that Eircom are expensive as ****...but im still wondering why in Europe they are cheap and have no limits.

    Contention ratios are 48:1? Why dont you just put less people on the lines. Say max it out at 30 (or create another product with higher cost but less contention). Can't you just request from Eircom to only stick 30 people on this particular line as they pay more for their medium-heavy usage.

    1: So you might have one product at 47.50 witha contention at 48:1 with 5 gig cap.

    2: And another product with 24:1 (or sommet) for €80. (or whatever increase in price is needed to cover the costs for the medium-heavy users. Chuck on a 'fair play' agreement on it where you'll be contacted if you go overboard too often by too much.

    3:A gamers one where you have a higher cap (but still one for all the updates etc) but where you attempt to guarantee low pings to places like Jolt.co.uk or wherever. Either by using more expensive routing or whatever. Then stick on a correct price for the better routing (if possible) and the slighlty higher cap. (if this worked, all gamers capable of getting it probably would as long as the price wasn't too high. Thats quite a large amount of ppl imo)

    Wouldnt that work?i dont understand why it has to be 48:1. Eircom said so? Well just request less people put on each and pay for the extra ones for the people who want a better product.

    Basically im asking for Tier'd products. if what im asking is outta the question please explain why. Would LLU the lines for the heavy users be better?

    Seems fairly easy to me but i guess thats why im not in an ISP ;)

    Comments plz, or questions if you dont understand what im getting at.


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  • #142
    Martin-UTVi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Martin-UTVi


    I'm really trying to be polite in answering some of these points, but am in a bit of a hurry....so my answers may be a bit short :)
    Why dont you just put less people on the lines
    Can't - Ericoms limit on their RADSL product. Other DSL flavours may have different ratios but are a lot more expensive - don't forget we are trying to push people towards broadband and hence need an affordable product.
    where you attempt to guarantee low pings to places like Jolt.co.uk or wherever. Either by using more expensive routing or whatever
    Not feasible - not going to go into the full tech details of an ISP's routing, but pings, latency etc are perhaps beyond the scope of this broadband discussion.
    Eircom said so?
    Yes - someone earlier in this thread posted a link to some Eircom pdf docs concerning the tech specs of their RADSL product - go read through those for a better understanding of the limitations in taking the RADSL service.

    Would LLU the lines for the heavy users be better?
    Yes, but a lot more expensive - most of the heavy users in this thread (I'm assuming) are home users who do not want to increase their net usage costs.


  • #143
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,063 ✭✭✭BKtje


    Thanks for reply Martin, appreciated.

    Im still a bit confused over the Contention tho. I understand Eircom Set the ratios on them but surely not every one is gonna be full. Especially at the start. Isn't it possible to just only stick 30 on each so that the bandwidth would be shard between them.
    Is it not feesable? physically possible or Eircom just being asses about it and refusing to put less people on it?
    From your previous reply im assuming its the latter :)

    Anyway, will apply. Doubt ill pass as i didnt pass Eircoms/Netsources RADSL but might as well try :)
    If not ill continue with my plans for ADSL business package from Esat which somehow i can get even tho i failed RADSL.
    Go figure :p


  • #144
    pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭pete


    Isn't it possible to just only stick 30 on each so that the bandwidth would be shard between them.

    I assume UTV etc don't buy RADSL connections in job lots of 48 at a time & so can't decide to just share out the capacity between a reduced number of subscribers.... or do they?


  • #145
    thecivvie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭thecivvie


    Originally posted by Martin-UTVi

    Yes, but a lot more expensive - most of the heavy users in this thread (I'm assuming) are home users who do not want to increase their net usage costs. [/B]

    I used to live in Reading before BB and I was on a microwave link with a company called Tele2. This is an excellent service and I got spoilt.

    As you say, most heavy users are home users, and I am looking for a 24/7 connection, dialup, BB or whatever. The pc will be 24/7 but not me, I just want the option :)

    Sean

    Join Ireland Weather Network

    http://irelandweather.eu/index.php




  • #146
    Calibos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,810 ✭✭✭Calibos


    The thing about contentions that I don't understand is related to the DSLAMS in the exchange. Is it a case of Eircom installing a single Dslam in the exchange and only adding another when its got its full complement of 48 users, so in my case on the bray exchange, the chances are that from the word go I'll probably have to share my connection with 48 others. There must be at least 48 early adopters in Bray (pop 30,000+) like me.

    Or is it a case of say for example Eircom starting their Bray rollout with 10 Dslams and kind of splitting Bray into 10 sectors in which case of those 48 early adopters I might be lucky and be only one of 3 or 4 DSL users in my 'Sector' and thus not really have to share my connection for a long while until other people in my sector upgrade to DSL??


  • #147
    Stonemason
    Closed Accounts Posts: 674 ✭✭✭Stonemason


    This really did make me smile :D
    We have looked at wireless and done feasibility on various aspects of it....but its very restrictive. Line of sight, weather conditions permitting, limited range etc etc. To cover an area like Dublin or the greater Belfast area you could be looking at 6-12 aerials. This area though is one that is changing rapidly and something we are keeping an eye on (tethered ballons, new non line of sight technologies etc.) The cost of rolling out broadband on a wireless basis is very expensive whilst only covering a limited % of the population. And of course once you have terminated your wireless connection atop a tall mountain/building, who are you going to pay to backhaul it to your POP via fibre....?

    Im glad to see that UTV are looking in the right direction.Maybe the last bit is abit confusing as i would have thought that the much talked about ESB fiber figure of eight would have been the best choice ?.

    I maybe wrong but (here we go again)the balloon soloution seems ideal you could locate the balloons close to ESB,s fiber network just about anywhere in the country acording to there map.The 80km radius these ballons have could cover just about all of ireland without much difficulty.Acording to skylincs map three balloons would cover all of ireland hell if they cost ten million € each it would be a fraction of the money the government has ear-mark for broadband rollout :D.

    As regards the cost unfortunately i havent recieved a reply from the E-mails i sent to both the ESB and Skylinc so i have know idea how much it would cost for the ballons and the fiber backhaul.I know your a busy man martin but maybe you could give us a breakdown of cost for this kind of system like the one you did for your new broadband costings ;).
    This new service adds significant value across all the supply chain, from end-user subscribers who will get fibre speed services at DSL pricing to network operators who will achieve massive network coverage at minimised cost and in reduced timescales.
    LIBRA - The Key Facts
    It works! Technical field trials throughout September 2002 exceeded all expectations Each LIBRA cell has a MASSIVE coverage of 2,000 sq miles (equivalent coverage of up to 2,000 traditional wireless base stations)87% of UK SME business locations will be accessible from only 18 LIBRA platforms Scaleable for up to 30,000 non-contending subscribers per super-cell Fast 2-way service - just like more expensive fibre options
    No requirement for a separate uplink such as modem, ISDN or leased line
    Service is fully available whether you live in a town or in the most remote cottage in the country
    Network roll out achieved for 10% of equivalent ground station costs
    End user rates targeted as 'Fibre rate service at DSL prices'
    Individual customer service rates from 1MB/s -10MB/s
    Mounted on an elevated platform. A proven technology with over 30 years of operation
    Regulatory approvals already granted for trials


    for more read em and weep :DSkylinc


  • #148
    spongebob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭spongebob


    Run the national Digital Terrestrial TV system off the same 9 balloons while ye are at it lads.

    M


  • #149
    Martin-UTVi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭Martin-UTVi


    I assume UTV etc don't buy RADSL connections in job lots of 48 at a time & so can't decide to just share out the capacity between a reduced number of subscribers
    No.
    Is it a case of Eircom installing a single Dslam in the exchange and only adding another when its got its full complement of 48 users, so in my case on the bray exchange, the chances are that from the word go I'll probably have to share my connection with 48 others
    No, its to do with the backhaul to the ISP. For every 2meg backhaul, Eircom will route a maximum of 192 virtual paths/routes/users back to the ISP, therefore the contention ratio is 48:1.
    know your a busy man martin but maybe you could give us a breakdown of cost for this kind of system
    Haven't looked into it in that kind of detail.....but I think initially it was being proposed as a business BB service at approx €100 per month. This I picked up reading between the lines of the various releases at the time. It was in no way being suggested that it would initially service a residential market :(


  • #150
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,789 ✭✭✭the corpo


    question

    is there an upload cap??


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  • #151
    Saruman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    I just signed my interest though im probably going to go with netsource unless this 5gb cap is set to at least 10gb.. i dont care when you say you only reserve the right.. on a 12 month contract im not taking the chance. 10gb is more than enough though. 5gb is just not enough.


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