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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    BUMP.........(page 4 :eek:)

    I think it looks like reseeding............ although I would have liked breeding/fertility myself!

    But discussion of anything beef related would be great! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Reseeding it is folks

    Are you choosing this measure?

    How much will you have to reseed to fulfill the requirements?

    How do you reseed?

    Grass Seed prices?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,296 ✭✭✭leg wax


    reseeded 8 acres about 4 weeks ago,after the kale,so 2 runs of my disc harrow and 3 runs of land leveler ,i put in a grazing sward with clover,cost me 60 euro a acre before anyone questions this price its at cost to me,because its stored in one of my units.the weather is playing havic with it you can barely see it up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭PatQfarmer


    AS stated above, I disced 6 acres...just before the bad weather started, so it is still looking at me as I dream of having it back in the rotation.:)
    I sprayed it off 10 days prior and grazed after 7 days.
    It was an old sward, ruined by constant cutting and little grazing.
    My farming pattern has changed a lot in recent years, so I have more stock now than heretofore.
    Lime at 3tons/acre, cost €23/ton spread.
    Grass seed bought and in dry store at home. Glanbia Mastercrop "Extend". €71.50per acre bag:eek:
    Waiting for a couple of dry days to one-pass it, then spread 2 bags of 10:10:20 and pray for "soft" Irish weather:)
    Having seen numerous posts by reilig about "simple" reseeds with a harrow, I am going to do 2 acres with mine as a test...when the weather improves!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,343 ✭✭✭bob charles


    taught I would be on my holidays by now. Still have 80% of maize to plant and 100% of grass. And so the year drags on. IMV it was too early to set grass during the last spell of weather and was too busy setting other crops anyway, thankfully its not in to be honest. A good bit is to go on top of wheat and the rest is to be Direct drilled into grass but this is being grazed away as normal and hasnt being brurned off yet. Grass seed bill is now getting huge and it is starting to have me questioning short term leys


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    For me it's undersown with barley. Last year it went in after kale with a few runs of a disc first, then sow grass seed with 1 pass. Put on extra clover with a vicon and rolled with a flat roller.

    I read somewhere that only 12-15% of the grass seed you sow will survive to be a grass plant the next year. Last year I sowed the grass seed at half rate. Worked ok. Has anyone else tried this?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭jerdee


    my kale only half grew as weeds got up before seed last year i think i will spray off this year as not taking no chances .Kerry grass seed seems to be best around here has left seedtech for dead.....65 acre at moment i will miss the kale this year.anybody use Sinclair seeds.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    blue5000 wrote: »
    I read somewhere that only 12-15% of the grass seed you sow will survive to be a grass plant the next year. Last year I sowed the grass seed at half rate. Worked ok. Has anyone else tried this?

    The extend grass seed bag I used before was 'an acre bag' (11.5kg/acre). But I see the comic recommending 1.5bags/acre.

    blue5000 I well believe what you are saying. And sure the real proof of the pudding is in the eating. If it worked for you, no reason why it shouldn't work for others.

    The comic and seed manufacturers have their own agendas. There's a reason for their 'recommendations' :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    leg wax wrote: »
    reseeded 8 acres about 4 weeks ago,after the kale,so 2 runs of my disc harrow and 3 runs of land leveler ,i put in a grazing sward with clover,cost me 60 euro a acre before anyone questions this price its at cost to me,because its stored in one of my units.the weather is playing havic with it you can barely see it up.

    IMO thats too early to sow grass. A late frost can do serrious damage to young reseeds. May is the time to do it IMO

    Do people think that sowing clover with the grass limits your options for a post emergence spray?

    also does anyboy add timothy to their seed mix?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    Yeah agree with above

    People went too early with the seeds this year - hopefully it won't cost them and when (if ever) the weather turns hopefully they will be ok

    Our methods of reseeding are:

    Graze to clay and spray regrowth after a few days or Spray silage 10 days before cutting
    Lime as required
    10 10 20 as required
    1 pass with powerharrow/drill combi
    Flat roll
    Post emergence spray
    Maybe a shot of nitrogen post emergence to really push them - depends on how they are going


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    25 acres ploughed and just waiting for the weather now. got the seed (mg60) cost 68 an acre. i have been told great things about this seed and a few local dairy boys reckon its great so taking the chance. most places were quoting 75 an acre round me and order size didnt matter to them. got quoted 95 of one place but that did include westewolds.

    The ground hadnt been grazed bare (was bad for redwater) and was far too long to spray. i ended up running a mulcher over it. I,m kinda regretting not spraying but too late now. id say iwill end up with a lot of weeds when it comes up so will spray then.

    I intend running weanlings on the ground and have been curious to know what is a realistic number that the ground will carry on its first year without doing damage but without letting the grass get ahead. Its good dry ground.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    Could someone that knows put up the general options for reseeding that all and sundry may pick holes in it, so hopefully we can end up with the "best" method.

    Bearing in mind different ground types and uses, I know I'm asking a lot but anyway!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    Bizzum wrote: »
    Could someone that knows put up the general options for reseeding that all and sundry may pick holes in it, so hopefully we can end up with the "best" method.

    Bearing in mind different ground types and uses, I know I'm asking a lot but anyway!

    there are as many ways to skin a cat as there is to reseed.
    so no one method will be the right choice for every1
    it really depends on the situation what is going to work best for you.
    So prescriptive advice is inappropriate. (of cources excluding the plough). But cheaper methods can be just as effective used correctly

    we've a 13acre block on hill with very poor indec's for PH, P&K that I guess has never been reseeded ever. I see it would be a pointless excersice to einblock or chain harrow the seed in. it will be a plough job

    On the other hand we did a 15acre block that has stone ditch's with very mature trees and is divided into 4 2.5acre fields and one 5acrce.
    we used the disc harrows twice followed by the powerharrow and grass barrow (hateful things). reason we used the dics was the ground is a bit thin in places and we were terrified of the stones:eek:. I do thing we had more weeds to deal with using the disc's. biggest issue we had there was there was no rain for 7wks post sowing:mad: but we got there in the end.

    If I was to reseed the ground we did in 2007 I'd have no problem useing the chain harrows. One thing I might look to do though is run an spiker/aerator the previous autumn If I can to addreass compacaction from slurry tankers and silage gear.


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭island of tighe


    ive sprayed off 7 acres 5 weeks ago for reseeding.still havent got it sown because of the weather.ive spread 3000 gallons of cattle slurry per acre and 3 tonne of lime per acre.i hope to disc it friday,spread 3 bags 18-6-12 per acre and sow saturday with power harrow with an air seeder unit attached WEATHER PERMITTING !!!!!!!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    got the ground ready today (well the contractor did). it was like the ploughing match. they had 5 tractors in with levellers, power tillers and a lad with a loader lifting any big stones floating around. seed to go in tomorrow. lime landed and fertiliser going on in morning too. i had budgeted 300 an acre but with seed increase and fertiliser and diesel its coming in at
    fertiliser 98 an acre
    ploughing 160 + vat
    seed at 68
    lime at 65

    coming in at e429


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 spt88


    has anybody used the agritech grass seeds i think there marked tipperary grass on the bag. i done 14 acres bout 3weeks ago and used kerrys ts3 seed have another 7 acres ready now and met a sales rep from agritech today at the mart (he reckons there'l be a big difference between the two mixes:rolleyes:)

    just wondering if anyone has any experience with them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭jerdee


    yes i have and have a lot of old grasses in there mix never again .......dairygold or Kerry far better ......three local lads all tried them same result ......


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    1chippy wrote: »
    got the ground ready today (well the contractor did). it was like the ploughing match. they had 5 tractors in with levellers, power tillers and a lad with a loader lifting any big stones floating around. seed to go in tomorrow. lime landed and fertiliser going on in morning too. i had budgeted 300 an acre but with seed increase and fertiliser and diesel its coming in at
    fertiliser 98 an acre
    ploughing 160 + vat
    seed at 68
    lime at 65

    coming in at e429

    160+VAT for ploughing!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
    you have got to be kidding me!
    45e for ploughing plus another say 40 for power harrow and 20-25e for the railing.

    that leaves 60e an acre for the lad picking stones!

    ur sure some1 is not taking the piss!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    I know I have said all of this before at different stages, but for the benefit of anyone in the group I'll give my view on reseeding again.

    When I was young, I never thought that reseeding could be an option for the type of land that we have. 80% of our land is upland with very shallow soil - 2 or 3 inches at best. Its very heavy land and gives us a 6 month winter (November to April inclusive). The last 20% of our land is bog. It sits on a gravel and is dry 365 days per year. Its great grass growing ground, and a huge asset to the farm for to have early grass to get cattle out. Only problem is not having enough of it. :D In the last 5 years we have reseeded 50 acres of our upland. It was the first reseed that it ever got - Our bogland was used for growing crops in the past (Cabbage plants, carrots, potatoes and strawberries) and was reseeded when brought back into pasture on rotation.

    A simple estimate that I have is that reseeding increased grass growth by approximately 30%. Silage quality and quantity is much improved and we get a much better response from slurry an fertilizer than the unreseeded ground. Our motto with slurry is small quantities, but often (2 or 3 times per year) to prevent leaving us with soft ground).

    This reseed has also brough early grass to the upland part of the farm which has its good and bad sides. In a dry spring (such as the one that we had), lighter cattle were out early on the grass and they did little or no damage. When there is a wet spring, cattle can't graze it. Its left to the sheep - the numbers that we have aren't able for it all, so we often have to top before taking the fields up for meadow.

    Another big positive of reseeding on our farm has been the virtual elimination of rushes and sprat on the reseeded ground. There's still the odd wet place with rushes, but all in all, most have been eliminated, and remain eliminated.

    Now to how its done - as someone pointed out, there's a million ways to skin a cat! A simple and cheap reseed works as well for me as a €300 per acre reseed works in good land. I spray, I chain harrow, I lime, I cover with slurry, I chain harrow one or two more times and then I spread the grass seed mixed with the fertilizer using a wagtail spreader, spreading at a low rate of application and using a chris-cross pattern to ensure that I go over each area twice. Then I roll.

    I have all my own machinery, except for the lime spreader. My total costs are very low, and I achieve good results.

    The point that I would like to make is that anyone can reseed their land - no matter what your depth of soil (unless you are on a mountain). If you want to increase the output of your farm without buying extra land, reseeding is a value for money option!!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 521 ✭✭✭Atilathehun


    reilig wrote: »
    I know I have said all of this before at different stages, but for the benefit of anyone in the group I'll give my view on reseeding again.

    When I was young, I never thought that reseeding could be an option for the type of land that we have. 80% of our land is upland with very shallow soil - 2 or 3 inches at best. Its very heavy land and gives us a 6 month winter (November to April inclusive). The last 20% of our land is bog. It sits on a gravel and is dry 365 days per year. Its great grass growing ground, and a huge asset to the farm for to have early grass to get cattle out. Only problem is not having enough of it. :D In the last 5 years we have reseeded 50 acres of our upland. It was the first reseed that it ever got - Our bogland was used for growing crops in the past (Cabbage plants, carrots, potatoes and strawberries) and was reseeded when brought back into pasture on rotation.

    A simple estimate that I have is that reseeding increased grass growth by approximately 30%. Silage quality and quantity is much improved and we get a much better response from slurry an fertilizer than the unreseeded ground. Our motto with slurry is small quantities, but often (2 or 3 times per year) to prevent leaving us with soft ground).

    This reseed has also brough early grass to the upland part of the farm which has its good and bad sides. In a dry spring (such as the one that we had), lighter cattle were out early on the grass and they did little or no damage. When there is a wet spring, cattle can't graze it. Its left to the sheep - the numbers that we have aren't able for it all, so we often have to top before taking the fields up for meadow.

    Another big positive of reseeding on our farm has been the virtual elimination of rushes and sprat on the reseeded ground. There's still the odd wet place with rushes, but all in all, most have been eliminated, and remain eliminated.

    Now to how its done - as someone pointed out, there's a million ways to skin a cat! A simple and cheap reseed works as well for me as a €300 per acre reseed works in good land. I spray, I chain harrow, I lime, I cover with slurry, I chain harrow one or two more times and then I spread the grass seed mixed with the fertilizer using a wagtail spreader, spreading at a low rate of application and using a chris-cross pattern to ensure that I go over each area twice. Then I roll.

    I have all my own machinery, except for the lime spreader. My total costs are very low, and I achieve good results.

    The point that I would like to make is that anyone can reseed their land - no matter what your depth of soil (unless you are on a mountain). If you want to increase the output of your farm without buying extra land, reseeding is a value for money option!!

    Slurry and grass seed. You will have a hard time convincing "some", guys on here, that slurry wont instantly kill the grass seed stone dead:confused:

    But I agree with you. Slurry is mighty to encourage the seed to get moving towards the sky:p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Slurry and grass seed. You will have a hard time convincing "some", guys on here, that slurry wont instantly kill the grass seed stone dead:confused:

    But I agree with you. Slurry is mighty to encourage the seed to get moving towards the sky:p

    Slurry before the seed is my policy. Then chain harrow it all up before spreading the seed!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭Bitten & Hisses


    For many years, back when we were spreading only with the side spreader, we always put our RVP seeds after the slurry, passing afterwards with a hefty whitethorn to cover them. It gives tremendous results in terms of output, but the disadvantage is having to seed so frequently. I think I might give it a go this year on a field that I don't want to plough, although I will probably spread the seeds before the slurry as I'll be out with the tanker.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    49801 wrote: »
    160+VAT for ploughing!:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
    you have got to be kidding me!
    45e for ploughing plus another say 40 for power harrow and 20-25e for the railing.

    that leaves 60e an acre for the lad picking stones!

    ur sure some1 is not taking the piss!

    sorry should have broken it down that includes. ploughing, rotavating, 5 passes with land leveller, sowing, spreading fertiliser and rolling (6ton). Ive kept the hours, labour and giving a rough guess on depreciation and diesel on top and not forgetting insurance and i reckon bad as things are in the building world agri contracting wont make you any richer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    1chippy wrote: »
    sorry should have broken it down that includes. ploughing, rotavating, 5 passes with land leveller, sowing, spreading fertiliser and rolling (6ton). Ive kept the hours, labour and giving a rough guess on depreciation and diesel on top and not forgetting insurance and i reckon bad as things are in the building world agri contracting wont make you any richer.

    even still!
    5 runs of a leveler sounds an awful lot... perhaps it was to deal with the puffy finish of a rotavator?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭KCTK


    49801 wrote: »
    even still!
    5 runs of a leveler sounds an awful lot... perhaps it was to deal with the puffy finish of a rotavator?
    Why use the rotavator at all after ploughing? A pass or two of a disc harrow should break up the soil perfectly well and definately think 5 passes of a leveler sounds over the top? I have always found that the less passes you can get away with the better. Ususally just spray off the existing grass and power harrow on the driest of the land and plough the damper fields as aids drainage


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    We used a levelling bar once - never again - they are absolutely useless IMO


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 354 ✭✭Pharaoh1


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    We used a levelling bar once - never again - they are absolutely useless IMO

    Don't know a lot about levellers or levelling bars but I'm sure there are different types.
    My contractor has a machine on wheels with 5 what are like plough shares turned sideways (but a bit angled) to level the ground and a very light ring roller behind and it does a great job.
    I'm not sure about the likes of the simple Fleming type land leveller.

    Another thing I see a lot of posters here and on other threads including lime when reseeding. Surely it should only be included if a soil test requires it or is it the opinion that it should go in regardless.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭BeeDI


    Pharaoh1 wrote: »
    Don't know a lot about levellers or levelling bars but I'm sure there are different types.
    My contractor has a machine on wheels with 5 what are like plough shares turned sideways (but a bit angled) to level the ground and a very light ring roller behind and it does a great job.
    I'm not sure about the likes of the simple Fleming type land leveller.

    Another thing I see a lot of posters here and on other threads including lime when reseeding. Surely it should only be included if a soil test requires it or is it the opinion that it should go in regardless.


    Lime is recommended at seeding to counteract the acidity being caused by decaying old grass which has been sprayed off.
    As the old stuff decays, it causes a rise in acidity in the seed bed for the new seeds. Not good. Lime in the seed bed will counteract this problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 607 ✭✭✭larthehar


    I have tried a good few methods, my latest is a heavy disc harrow. I reseeded 5acres last year, 3 runs of the heavy disc (up/down,over/back,corner to corner), €35/hr, spread with lime, sow seed (Sinclair McGill - Prosper), 18-6-12 @ 3bags/ac and roll. The land had not been reseeded in years and the ground was stony so didn't want a lifetime job of picking!!
    Initially i was not awfully happy with the amount of sods left on top of the ground because i had hope to level it. Finally results are excellent to be fair, sods died off and new sward is reaching for the sky!:D

    This year i am in two minds of what to do, need to level this field so i am thinking of discing x2/power harrow/level x2/slurry@3kgal per acre/lime/chain harrow and sow. My question being am i wasting money discing?! go straight in with the power harrow (both done by contractors)

    Regarding the leveller i think this is a must on 30year old ley.. these fields tend to have those humps and hollows that onky you know about from cutting silage on them.. and the levller makes a new field of it!!

    Oh and all of the above were/will be preceded by spraying, 10days before silage or spray and graze tight after 5 days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Go straight in with power harrow. One run is plenty. And follow as you did with disc harrow method.

    I'd love to try discing next time I reseed


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    pakalasa wrote: »

    Yes seen it before. The looking at the roots I thought was a good tip;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    do you buy off the shelf seed mixtures or you make up your own?

    not too knowledgeable about mixtures myself and we usually just buy off the shelf as per the brochure. Have looked at the different mixtures on offer from the different companies but really have no idea how to pick what is the best mixture for us.

    insight?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Can we have this topic for this week please?! ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    49801 wrote: »
    even still!
    5 runs of a leveler sounds an awful lot... perhaps it was to deal with the puffy finish of a rotavator?

    He done two up and down one diagonal and two across, not sure in what order. he left it perfect. the rotavator wasnt like the traditional one we would have always used at home. maybe it isnt even called a rotavator but works on the same principle. Regret not asking him now. I asked around with a lot of people and the same name kept coming up for leaving a good finish. There were cheaper options but no one near as particular as he was. he left the ground better than i could do my lawns. It was pretty rough prior to this. the last time it seen a plough it was dragged by a horse not even a 20. There had been a machine driver in for a couple of weeks prior pulling stones, roots and tidying up. I wanted the best job possible and in my own eyes this was the system.I may be completly off the mark but i'll just have to take it on the chin and accept it if its not worth it. discing, power harrowing or any form of direct seed wasnt really a runner in this bit of land.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Task 3 – Genetic Merit of Herd –
    - Use 5 Star AI on 25% of herd or
    - Participate in Gene Ireland or
    - Use 5 star stock bull (1 Year) or
    - Use 4+ star heifers for fertility or milk (2013)


    Discuss!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Does anyone know how the reliability figures work? I mean how can a young breeding bull that has no progeny be giving a reliability figure? Yes based on his parentage etc, but how is this weighted?

    Perhaps it's just me, but I find it hard to have any faith in a system where figures are constantly changing. I've never bought a stock bull, but I'd find it hard to go paying out €2,500+ based on figures that could go up and down.

    In saying that I think their has to be some system in place to try and help promote better breeding in sucklers, and perhaps this is as good as it gets?

    p.s. I know that the ICBF star system is to change somewhat in sept 2012....... more confusion or will it improve things?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭BeeDI


    My stock bull is charolais. A son of CF52, and according to his statistics, he scores very badly for both calving difficulty and milk in replacements.

    To be quite frank, I never once had a bad calving from him. Very rarely used the jack. Only issue, was one cow who constantly presents her calf with one leg up. Straighten the leg, and she gets on with it.

    I also have kept 7 heifers for replacements from him. I cant say they have tons of milk, but they have as much milk in my opinion, as some limousine heifers I have kept form AI bulls, with good scores for milk in offspring.

    As they say, "There are three kinds of lies!. Lies, damn lies and statistics":eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    there is no such thing as 100% reliable data. The ICBF figures are a guide they arent gospel and they can change. However they are better then just looking at a bull and guessing from that. A combination of figures, bull apperence and pedigree gives a fuller picture.

    a bull with no offspring will get data from the parents average and linier scoring. The reliablity will depend on the reliablity of his perants figures


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    reilig wrote: »

    Task 3 – Genetic Merit of Herd –
    - Use 5 Star AI on 25% of herd or
    - Participate in Gene Ireland or
    - Use 5 star stock bull (1 Year) or
    - Use 4+ star heifers for fertility or milk


    This one is simple for me and one of my measures for this year. I keep a number of pedigree cows who all get 5 star AI. I also use AI BB on 40% of my herd. All will be 5 star and will qualify me for this measure this year!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    what classifies a 5star bull exactly?
    is is just 5star sbv or all traits? within breed or across all breeds.

    what if your bull decreases in star value in one of the evaluations?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    I've been using all AI now for the last 6 years or so. I have a lot of faith in the ICBF figures. I find bulls that are easy calving are in fact easy calving. I am trying to calve down heifers at 2 years of age. The heifers are bred from bulls with high maternal calving figures and I use a very easy calving Lim bull on them. To be honest the only calves I have been unhappy with are BB's I bred from plain black limousins. I thought that the BB would bring muscle to the mix, but I ended up with R grade types that were not very growthy.
    The figures are not the be all and end all of everything and I would always try a bull on a couple of cows first to see how they breed. Appreciate all the feedback on the different bulls here aswell, especially the photos. Keep them coming......:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    Two issues that I see as important on the breeding fromt are: Retaining milk in the suckler cow, and gestation length.

    Do people find that the quality of milk have an impact? For example, some of the charolais cows to look at you would think they had very little milk. But they do a master job on each calf. Is this down to milk composition or what?
    On gestation, I'm getting fed up looking at cows go to 300 or more days. Very hard to get a calf every 365 days at this rate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    Bizzum wrote: »
    Two issues that I see as important on the breeding fromt are: Retaining milk in the suckler cow, and gestation length.

    Do people find that the quality of milk have an impact? For example, some of the charolais cows to look at you would think they had very little milk. But they do a master job on each calf. Is this down to milk composition or what?
    On gestation, I'm getting fed up looking at cows go to 300 or more days. Very hard to get a calf every 365 days at this rate.

    Was at a farm walk last year and there was a similar observation made. The quality of the milk should not be determined by the udder size!
    weanling weight is a far better indicator.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    reilig wrote: »



    Discuss!
    Does it matter how many traits your stock bull has to have 5 stars for to qualify?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    49801 wrote: »
    what classifies a 5star bull exactly?
    is is just 5star sbv or all traits? within breed or across all breeds.

    what if your bull decreases in star value in one of the evaluations?

    Some excellent questions. I would like to know the answers to these aswell! :rolleyes: I doubt they could be explained simply in one sentence without falling asleep!

    And they are doing away with SBV now from Sept! As if we weren't confused enough!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    reilig wrote: »
    This one is simple for me ..... pedigree cows who get 5 star AI. I also use AI BB on 40% of herd, all will be 5 star!

    What qualifies a bull as being 5star AI?

    Is it 5 ***** SBV or 5 ***** in any one trait? :confused:

    And is it within breed or across all breeds????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    more ranting...:D

    5star AI is one thing, where the reliability can be 90% + I back this inititative 100%. It is transparent, straight forward and the figures can be vouched for.

    But a '5 star' stock bull that has only 25-30% reliability is ridiculous! Does the 5star stock bull or 4star heifers have to have a certain reliability figure to qualify? If not, the whole thing is one big joke IMHO.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    Muckit wrote: »
    more ranting...:D

    5star AI is one thing, where the reliability can be 90% + I back this inititative 100%. It is transparent, straight forward and the figures can be vouched for.

    But a '5 star' stock bull that has only 25-30% reliability is ridiculous! Does the 5star stock bull or 4star heifers have to have a certain reliability figure to qualify? If not, the whole thing is one big joke IMHO.

    A female cant have huge relability simply because there isnt the data to back it up. while a bull in AI can have thousands of progeny a cow will probably have 10 calves max.

    To have 90% + relability you would need about 100 calves on the ground

    The change of figures between proof runs will have to be addresed for the sceme no doubt. I presume if they are 5 stars at breeding then they qualify


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