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Comments

  • #202
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,696 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    This where we have a massive difference on suckler farms: the full time farmers vs the part time guys. Full time guys are trying to make a living and every euro has to be watched. With part timers the job is subsidising the farm (and larry goodman).

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #203
    jay gatsby
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭jay gatsby


    It's a smaller scale, but equally legitimate example. it's one of the few ways that our tax system does actually reward work and investment.

    remember, Johnnie is building up an asset to work, not to sell. if Johnnie tries to sell said asset the tax man will take his slice, one way or another the house always wins!



    it's also nothing compared to the tax/investment/pension breaks available to company directors.[/QUOTE]

    Johnnie is not being handed thousands of euro in taxpayers money every year through the SFP though!


  • #204
    JohnBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭JohnBoy


    the flip side of that is a lot of part time farmers are competing to buy stores/weanlings with full time farmers who's large SFP is subsidising their farm (and larry goodman)



    So basically, we're all fighting with each other and larry laughs his way to the bank


  • #205
    JohnBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭JohnBoy


    jay gatsby wrote: »
    Johnnie is not being handed thousands of euro in taxpayers money every year through the SFP though!

    True, but the SFP is 100% eurpean money.

    And, a side effect of Johnnies desire to make break even/make a loss is that he spends all that money, introducing cash into the economy.


    So, Johnnie can spend his SFP in the wider economy, or he keep it and pay tax on it.

    either way, the house wins.


  • #206
    jay gatsby
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭jay gatsby


    Just playing Devil's advocate here but European money is Tax payer money really.

    Also I would rather get to throw my own money out into the wider economy than hand it to your business and let you do it through SFP.


  • #207
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Its not Irish tax payers money. Its eu
    tax payers money. Up to now we are net receivers as opposed to contributors to the eu tax fund.

    Its worth noting that this money is being paid to the Irish farmers to compensate us for selling our food at low cost end ensuring that we have a constant and reliable source of food within Europe.

    As i have said 100 times here, i would gladly forfeit my sfp if the food consumers in Europe were willing to pay a price which was greater than the cost of production. Until them I'll accept any subsidy with open arms.

    Would ordinary consumers be willing to pay more for unsubsidised food?

    jay gatsby wrote: »
    It's a smaller scale, but equally legitimate example. it's one of the few ways that our tax system does actually reward work and investment.

    remember, Johnnie is building up an asset to work, not to sell. if Johnnie tries to sell said asset the tax man will take his slice, one way or another the house always wins!



    it's also nothing compared to the tax/investment/pension breaks available to company directors.

    Johnnie is not being handed thousands of euro in taxpayers money every year through the SFP though![/Quote]


  • #208
    jay gatsby
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭jay gatsby


    reilig wrote: »
    Its not Irish tax payers money. Its eu
    tax payers money. Up to now we are net receivers as opposed to contributors to the eu tax fund.

    As i have said 100 times here, i would gladly forfeit my sfp if the food consumers in Europe were willing to pay a price which was greater than the cost of production. Until them I'll accept any subsidy with open arms.

    Would ordinary consumers be willing to pay more for unsubsidised food?


    The fact that we are net receivers does not equal the phrase "it is not our tax money". It's still our taxes going into the fund, we just get a little more reward overall for paying the tax.

    My other point in response to the original hypothetical situation is based in cold business terms. Tax money allows the farmer to make a profit, it does not contribute (to the same degree to eg a carpenter). What is being said in this thread is that farmers then take the SFP and rather than pay the income tax it should generate are instead burying it. The fact that most farmers here would like their produce to be worth more on the open market is, in this case at least irrelevant.

    i completely accept your points, I'm just saying farming is a bit out of the ordinary for the comparison that was made earlier


  • #209
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    JohnBoy wrote: »
    the flip side of that is a lot of part time farmers are competing to buy stores/weanlings with full time farmers who's large SFP is subsidising their farm (and larry goodman)



    So basically, we're all fighting with each other and larry laughs his way to the bank

    As far as i am aware there was nothing to stop part time farmers building up large SFP's of their own??

    some around me do


  • #210
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    jay gatsby wrote: »
    reilig wrote: »
    i completely accept your points, I'm just saying farming is a bit out of the ordinary for the comparison that was made earlier

    But its not. Every business in the country is the same whether its farming, construction, services etc. If money is invested into the business that was not earned in the business, it isn't taxable.

    How many businesses in this country get grants?

    Certainly a lot more Irish tax payers money goes into grant aid for businesses outside farming than farming - IDA, Local Prtnerships, Leader, Development Agencies etc!!


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  • #211
    Tipp Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,025 ✭✭✭Tipp Man


    So are we going to discuss profit margins on sucklers?

    So for me this would be sales less all costs except land, sheds, accountant, hedgecutting and maybe a couple of others


  • #212
    49801
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    I thought the discussion was going to be on 'profit monitor'?:rolleyes:


  • #213
    JohnBoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭JohnBoy


    Tipp Man wrote: »
    As far as i am aware there was nothing to stop part time farmers building up large SFP's of their own??

    some around me do



    no nothing at all.

    It's all a free market, the point is everyone is competing with someone who has different circumstances to themselves, some work in their favour, some dont.

    I'm sure even big larry himself has someone to grumble about :)


  • #214
    1chippy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    i both farm and have a small woodwork workshop. most of the comments about handouts and help seem pretty simplified and sometimes biased, however the reality of the situation is, that no matter what situation any of us are in, it would be very bad business not to accept or utilise ANY oportunity available to us. If your not you need a new accountant. Whats relevant to one business is usually available in some other form in another.


  • #215
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    reilig wrote: »
    Welcome to the Boards.ie Beef Discussion Group. This group is open to any Beef or Suckler Farmer whether you are a member of a Beef Discussion group (BTAP) or not.
    The aim of this group is the same as the BTAP groups:
    To try to increase the performance and output of your herd
    And in turn try to improve your profit.

    It would be nice if this group could work in the same way as the BTAP groups - Choose specific topics for different weeks. Maybe some people could also write a piece on a specific topic that they have knowledge on such as BVD or Herd Health plans etc.

    Each week we will choose a topic that we can discuss for 1 week and every week we will try to move to a new topic. So, towards the end of every week, people can suggest topics for the following week.

    We will try not to make it a question and answer thread - we have enough threads for that already. Far more information could be gained by having it as a discussion thread where people detail how they do things on their farm in relation to the weekly topic.

    Farming and Forestry Charter applies

    No advertising, no shilling, no promotion, nothing illegal.

    If you are looking to chat, go to chit chat. Lets make this thread about information that works.
    Gr8 idea reilig, although really I'm cursing you as I was planning in going to bed early and now I'll end up reading the whole thread!

    (should have taken a look before now I suppose!)


  • #216
    just do it
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Apologies for late arrival but only clicked into this thread this evening and realised what I'm missing. This is what I'm at interspersed with thoughts expressed by others in their posts.

    Took back farm in Spring '08 after 28 years of it being leased out. 2 main blocks split by a main road. Main block with 45 acres has an 8ac silage field and the rest is grazing. Other block has 14ac silage field, 2.3 ac field where I'll be building (house not shed!) starting this year all going well, and 29ac block that is still rented out. I've been concentrating on the 45ac block to start with.

    When I took it over it was in 3 divisions and being neglected marginal land not in great nick. I got a track machine in for 2 weeks, incl work for new slatted shed, and tore into the place. Since then I've been fencing, plumbing, fencing, plumbing .....

    Fencing the boundry was the first priority. Here I've used strainers at corners and stakes every ~10m in between. 16g wire strained with hayes strainer (great job). Then paddocks of ~1ac size. This is small in comparision to everone else on here but I based this on the mesiah Justin's guide for paddock size lasting 3 days. 2 days of good grazing and 3rd day forcing cows to graze down to butt. Also as alot of the land is wet I feel I'll get a few extra days grazing each year as they'll be in and out of a paddock quickly thus reducing poaching. Plan is grass roadway to every paddock back to shed. Will have all this finished in 6-8 weeks (after 5 years at it!).

    Permanent fencing with stakes and 16g wire used along roadways and field boundries. Where fields are divided into paddocks i've used rebar cut to 5' lengths with insulators and use these between strainers. These are usually short enough and always straight runs. Advantage of this is it's easy remove it allowing reseeding etc of field.

    For boundry I use 1 wire as there is a ditch or stone wall there as well. For some patches along the road and for roadways I use 2 strands of wire. Top wire is set at 800-850mm. For wire between paddocks I use one wire set high at ~900-950mm. This allows creep grazing.

    I like the idea someone mentioned of the sheep hi-tensile wire on roadways near the shed and have added that to the to-do list! Agree with others re polywire/tape. Stuff I got 5 years ago is now approaching or has passed its use by date! Got p***ed off with wire wrapped around hand and elbow getting tangled so got wire reels which are a great job. Like idea of cordless drill for winding the wire back;)

    Thanks for youtube link for strainrite videos. I picked up the simplest of simple tricks while using the hayes strainer. When tying the knot put a bit of pressure on lever with your hip/thigh and this will allow easy release of strainer when knot is done! I've had struggles getting it off:rolleyes:

    WATER
    1/2 inch NG hydrodare above ground. In hindsight would have gone with 3/4. Use only NG as HG can crack when it freezes (and I've had it happen with the one stretch of HG I used above ground). JFC DT30's each supplying 2 paddocks. I toyed around with temporary drinkers that I'd move around but I'm too damn lazy for that! With the silage fields I'm going to run pipe around boudry and put in philmac T joints. I'll block the T with a philmac plug and only use one or two troughs when these fields are being grazed. I've only come up with that idea recently and may or may not get the silage fields plumbed as I plan this year.

    Now that's enough for one night, I'll catch up with week 2 and 3 at some other stage;)


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  • #217
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    Reading the beef article in the farmers weekly...

    I see the UK are using a different yardstick to measure the preformance of the suckler herd....

    kg of calf weaned
    kg of cow mated X 100 =

    It's a very telling measurement using kg of cow mated, as any poor fertility cows are affecting your result. The weight of the cow was taken at mating, not when the calf was weaned.

    The lad in the case study was acheiving 54.4%, which I think is phenomenal!

    This from stabiliser cattle, which aren't big cows. He placed big emphasis on getting small live calves on the ground. Cows had to calve unassisted. Any heifer calf born over 45kg was not kept for breeding, which I thought wa interesting. His rationale was that if bred, she was liable to bring a big calf. He wanted small calves that grew quick.

    His profit for each cow (excl labour and variable costs) was £304.72 (which equates to ~€381)


  • #218
    BeeDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 805 ✭✭✭BeeDI


    Muckit wrote: »
    Reading the beef article in the farmers weekly...

    I see the UK are using a different yardstick to measure the preformance of the suckler herd....

    kg of calf weaned
    kg of cow mated X 100 =

    It's a very telling measurement using kg of cow mated, as any poor fertility cows are affecting your result. The weight of the cow was taken at mating, not when the calf was weaned.

    The lad in the case study was acheiving 54.4%, which I think is phenomenal!

    This from stabiliser cattle, which aren't big cows. He placed big emphasis on getting small live calves on the ground. Cows had to calve unassisted. Any heifer calf born over 45kg was not kept for breeding, which I thought wa interesting. His rationale was that if bred, she was liable to bring a big calf. He wanted small calves that grew quick.

    His profit for each cow (excl labour and variable costs) was £304.72 (which equates to ~€381)

    But what does that mean? It's the profit AFTER variable costs which count, when it comes to putting bread on the table?
    Any detail on his variable costs??


  • #219
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    BeeDI wrote: »
    But what does that mean? It's the profit AFTER variable costs which count, when it comes to putting bread on the table?
    Any detail on his variable costs??

    Oh sure look, you are dead right. I'm merely transcibing what was wrote in the article and the way figures were presented.

    It didn't go into details on his variable costs. I have yet to read an article in any farming paper/mag that dealt in net profit.


  • #220
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    BeeDI wrote: »
    But what does that mean? It's the profit AFTER variable costs which count, when it comes to putting bread on the table?
    Any detail on his variable costs??

    It is profitable before varible costs that count as everybody varible costs will vary. Some people rent land or are in the process of purchassing it. Another lad may be writing off a new tractor or a 30K euro jeep which may be a livestyle choice.. A lot of part time farmers may not want to show a large profit due to having to pay tax and USC at 52%.

    So profit before varible costs are a better reflection of the profitability of a system. Take a farmer who if outwintering these cows on the burren in Clare might have be able to pocket all this money if he wanted to. While another farmer in cork may have land to pay back for.


  • #221
    jerdee
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭jerdee


    what's to be discussed this week?

    herd health/vaccination programs
    or something else


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  • #222
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Lets talk about herd Health and vaccination programmes this week. But feel free to go back on the older topics if someone has something to add.

    Personally, the big one for us is BVD this year. We have joined the BVD testing scheme this year and we have been vaccinating against BVD for the last 5 years with a much improved heard health visible as a result. We don't vaccinate for IBR or anything else but we have a pretty regular dosing programme for Fluke and worms and we do give a few boluses for minerals and vitamins throughout the year. We also do all of the younger animals with an 8 in 1 vaccine.

    What about you?

    Can someone else do the topic for next week, on monday as i am away all next week!


  • #223
    jay gatsby
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭jay gatsby


    Personally, the big one for us is BVD this year. We have joined the BVD testing scheme this year and we have been vaccinating against BVD for the last 5 years with a much improved heard health visible as a result. We don't vaccinate for IBR or anything else but we have a pretty regular dosing programme for Fluke and worms and we do give a few boluses for minerals and vitamins throughout the year. We also do all of the younger animals with an 8 in 1 vaccine.

    What about you?
    QUOTE]


    Is the BVD vaccination administered to all stock or is it just breeding stock?


  • #224
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    jay gatsby wrote: »
    Personally, the big one for us is BVD this year. We have joined the BVD testing scheme this year and we have been vaccinating against BVD for the last 5 years with a much improved heard health visible as a result. We don't vaccinate for IBR or anything else but we have a pretty regular dosing programme for Fluke and worms and we do give a few boluses for minerals and vitamins throughout the year. We also do all of the younger animals with an 8 in 1 vaccine.

    What about you?
    QUOTE]


    Is the BVD vaccination administered to all stock or is it just breeding stock?

    Just breeding stock. Only breeding stock can pass BVD onto their Foetus so that the Foetus becomes a PI.
    TI's can spread BVD also, so it is important to have good farming practices - especially for animals taht you buy in.


  • #225
    LivInt20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭LivInt20


    reilig wrote: »
    and we do give a few boluses for minerals and vitamins throughout the year. We also do all of the younger animals with an 8 in 1 vaccine.

    I haven't heard of the 8 in 1 vaccine before. What does it cover? Price? When to administer, etc?


  • #226
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    As regards the health of young calves, I think the biggest single thing you can do is to make sure the newborn calf gets his belly full of colostrum as soon as you can. Even if that means wrestling with a newborn at 4 in the morning. I'm 6 years suckling now and, touch wood, I have never had a sick calf. Apart from luck, I put a lot of it down to this.


  • #227
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    I have alot to learn in the area of animal health. I would find it v beneficial if posts on this topic were as detailed as possible.

    Ie...
    • What you dose/vaccinate for?
    • What age/type animals you dose?
    • What products you use/used and found good/bad
    • When?
    • How do you measure the results/success of your dosing/vaccination regime or is it more piece of mind?


  • #228
    jerdee
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭jerdee


    i do all breeding stock and stock bull plus teaser for bvd .i did a blood test two years ago all clear but still vaccine yearly .lepto before calving and copper bullets to all females.
    calves tribavax on turn out .
    fluke albex pouron and flukiver .

    since getting into this programme herd health has greatly improved.

    many thanks to my vets advise.


  • #229
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    LivInt20 wrote: »
    I haven't heard of the 8 in 1 vaccine before. What does it cover? Price? When to administer, etc?

    We Covexin 8 just as we are letting the younger animals out to grass. it costs just over €1 each. It covers 7-way blackleg (Pulpy kidney, Brazy, Struck, Blacks Disease, Bacterial Red Water, Tetanus, Enterotoxemia, Post parturian Gangerene) plus tetanus.


  • #230
    49801
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    reilig wrote: »
    Lets talk about herd Health and vaccination programmes this week. But feel free to go back on the older topics if someone has something to add.

    Personally, the big one for us is BVD this year. We have joined the BVD testing scheme this year and we have been vaccinating against BVD for the last 5 years with a much improved heard health visible as a result. We don't vaccinate for IBR or anything else but we have a pretty regular dosing programme for Fluke and worms and we do give a few boluses for minerals and vitamins throughout the year. We also do all of the younger animals with an 8 in 1 vaccine.

    What about you?

    Can someone else do the topic for next week, on monday as i am away all next week!

    Curious.... if you are vaccinating for BVD you wont getva positive result on the tissue tags... is it possible you still have bvd in the herd but it is not showing up in the tissue tests as the calves are protected?

    I suspected bvd in our herd so I tissue tested this year and not one positive result:). Now I know this not conclusive until the end of year 3.
    We also have restarted our lepto vaccination program.
    We've always vaccinated for blackleg (usually only the one dose though:o)


  • #231
    jerdee
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭jerdee


    On my bvd test some cows showed up positive for bvd.But on further incubation readings it was the vaccine that caused the low reading.

    anybody test for johnnes ?


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  • #232
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    49801 wrote: »
    Curious.... if you are vaccinating for BVD you wont getva positive result on the tissue tags... is it possible you still have bvd in the herd but it is not showing up in the tissue tests as the calves are protected?

    I suspected bvd in our herd so I tissue tested this year and not one positive result:). Now I know this not conclusive until the end of year 3.
    We also have restarted our lepto vaccination program.
    We've always vaccinated for blackleg (usually only the one dose though:o)

    From the information that i got, vaccinating for BVD does not guarantee that a Foetus will be free from BVD. It just strengthens the immune system of the Foetus and reduces the chances of it contracting BVD at the risk months (3 to 5 months in the womb).


  • #233
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    jerdee wrote: »
    On my bvd test some cows showed up positive for bvd.But on further incubation readings it was the vaccine that caused the low reading.

    Is there much point in testing cows for BVD? They can't contract it - only calves in the womb can contract it. Only .025% of calves born with BVD will live beyond 20 months - most will die after weining when they stop getting antibodies from cows milk. To me, testing animals with that small of risk for BVD is a waste of money.


  • #234
    49801
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭49801


    reilig wrote: »
    Is there much point in testing cows for BVD? They can't contract it - only calves in the womb can contract it. Only .025% of calves born with BVD will live beyond 20 months - most will die after weining when they stop getting antibodies from cows milk. To me, testing animals with that small of risk for BVD is a waste of money.

    why are you joined up to tissue test for bvd then?:confused:
    I personally would not like to wait that long to find out it was bvd all the while spreading the virus.:P


  • #235
    jerdee
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭jerdee


    my oldest cow is 01 and i only being vaccinating for five years and keeping replacements .its the overall herd health i suppose.


  • #236
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    49801 wrote: »
    why are you joined up to tissue test for bvd then?:confused:
    I personally would not like to wait that long to find out it was bvd all the while spreading the virus.:P

    Cows don't spread the virus. You can be fairly confident that if you have a cow, she doesn't have BVD. BVD tends to kill off the animal before 24 months - its extremely rare that you will have an animal over 24 months with bvd.

    I'm tissue testing the calves because they are the most likely to have BVD. This is because the only place that they can contract BVD is in the womb between month 3 and months 5 of the pregnancy. The mother comes in contact with a PI or a TI and passes this infection onto the foetus of the calf. The main point here is that an animal can only become infected while inside the womb - so cows are very low risk for having BVD. Therefore, there is not much point in testing them. Its better to test the calves as they are being born and then remove the PI's so that they don't spread BVD to unborn calves as they mix through the herd.


  • #237
    Muckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    There is a discussion on another thread about this, but thought I'd ask here as know nothing about vaccinating for it. We never had it Thank God.....
    • Is it a jab under the skin you give as a vaccine? where?
    • Behind the front shoulder or in the neck or where?
    • What's vaccine do you use? what a ml per cwt?
    Thanks

    Muckit


  • #238
    redzerologhlen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    Muckit wrote: »
    There is a discussion on another thread about this, but thought I'd ask here as know nothing about vaccinating for it. We never had it Thank God.....
    • Is it a jab under the skin you give as a vaccine? where?
    • Behind the front shoulder or in the neck or where?
    • What's vaccine do you use? what a ml per cwt?
    Thanks

    Muckit

    2cc per animal and a repeat dose of 2cc 6 weeks later regardless of weight. Under the skin, I normally do it around their shoulder. I use tribovax t. Its a bit more expensive than normal blackleg vaccine but still cheap and covers a good few things.


  • #239
    jay gatsby
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭jay gatsby


    Would I be right in saying then that in the following situation you have almost zero chance of getting BVD.

    All sucklers
    Buy replacements all over 24 months and served with AI
    Stock bull bought at 24 months or all AI
    Young stock sold at 9 months
    Nothing else bought in or kept beyond weanling stage.

    Is there any way for the disease to enter this herd other than a neighbour's stock?


  • #240
    Charlie Charolais
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭Charlie Charolais


    reilig wrote: »
    We don't vaccinate for IBR

    Suckler lads - pls vaccinate for IBR!
    We are drystock farming & buy weanlings in - the big issue we have is respiratory problems;
    I think the stress of weaning/mart/transport brings on the problems & we are chasing after it then
    Prevention would definitely be better than cure in this case!


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  • #241
    DMAXMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭DMAXMAN


    have to agree with charlie charolais. is becoming a bit if a problem again after a few quiet years. i think you need to be giving it to calves early also. we have a bullock that was bought as a weanling last autumn and he definitely has lungs affected by some type of pneumonia and is only going top get worse as he gets bigger. came from afarmer that i often bought weanlings off through the mart and are usually great stock but this guy wont be. if i can get flesh on him i may kill him before next winter


  • #242
    LivInt20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 491 ✭✭LivInt20


    jay gatsby wrote: »
    Would I be right in saying then that in the following situation you have almost zero chance of getting BVD.

    All sucklers
    Buy replacements all over 24 months and served with AI
    Stock bull bought at 24 months or all AI
    Young stock sold at 9 months
    Nothing else bought in or kept beyond weanling stage.

    Is there any way for the disease to enter this herd other than a neighbour's stock?

    The replacements you buy in could be a PI and carrying the BVD virus.


  • #243
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    All sucklers
    Buy replacements all over 24 months and served with AI
    Could be in contact with a PI ot TI before you buy them and the foetus could be infected.
    Stock bull bought at 24 months or all AI
    Could have been in contact with a TI
    Young stock sold at 9 months
    If you brought 1 home from the mart unsold, it could be a TI

    Nothing else bought in or kept beyond weanling stage.

    Is there any way for the disease to enter this herd other than a neighbour's stock

    Aimals looking across the hedge are as big of risk as anything


  • #244
    lab man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭lab man


    Charlie Charolais wrote: »
    Suckler lads - pls vaccinate for IBR!
    We are drystock farming & buy weanlings in - the big issue we have is respiratory problems;
    I think the stress of weaning/mart/transport brings on the problems & we are chasing after it then
    Prevention would definitely be better than cure in this case!

    charlie,
    whats is the name of the injection for this and at what stage would you give it,, and when selling is it worth saying that they are vaccinated.?


  • #245
    Charlie Charolais
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭Charlie Charolais


    lab man wrote: »
    charlie,
    whats is the name of the injection for this and at what stage would you give it,, and when selling is it worth saying that they are vaccinated.?

    Hey lab, bitta reading in the link below. The important thing is that the booster is given after the first shot, one shot is useless on it's own. It'll do no harm to declare it when selling
    http://www.magentadirect.ie/proddetail.php?prod=PneumoniaandIBRVaccine


  • #246
    reilig
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭reilig


    Charlie Charolais wrote: »
    Suckler lads - pls vaccinate for IBR!
    We are drystock farming & buy weanlings in - the big issue we have is respiratory problems;
    I think the stress of weaning/mart/transport brings on the problems & we are chasing after it then
    Prevention would definitely be better than cure in this case!
    Premium prices have been promised by the "Export Trade" for weanlings vaccinated in accordance with the Weanling Export Programmes in 2008.

    We vaccinated in accordance with this program in 2007 and 2008 and saw little return for it. The marts stopped paying the €10 extra for the animals because the buyers stopped paying it. We spoke to an exporter who bought weanlings from us off the grass and he said that the Exporters Association concluded that it was easier for them to buy the weinlings and administer the vaccination themselves before shipping and it cut out the middle man. He also pointed out that it should be in the buyers interest to vaccinate as the animals arrive on the farm - because when a buyer buys a group of animals from a mart from various herds, some may be vaccinated and some not, so all are usually vaccinated again.

    So who should the responsibility lie with to vaccinate?

    In 2007/8, we announced that all our animals were vaccinated and it made no difference to price. They averaged the same as unvaccinated animals.

    Should we vaccinate knowing that the majority of our animals will be bought for export and vaccinated again before they leave the mart ??

    I'm not having a go, but there should be some set criteria by the Department of Ag. for it.


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  • #247
    towzer2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 533 ✭✭✭towzer2010


    reilig wrote: »

    .......... but there should be some set criteria by the Department of Ag. for it.

    I dont think the dept should be involved in something like this. If buyers want it done they should pay extra for it and farmers would do it then.

    We are becoming bogged down in red tape as it is.


  • #248
    Charlie Charolais
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭Charlie Charolais


    Hi Reilig,

    I think this brings up an issue that needs addressing, we need to look at the full chain in beef production, all the way from the consumer back to the calver and look at how we can add value up through the chain rather than looking at our own section in isolation and to hell with the next man.

    From my point of view I'd like the sucklers to vaccinate, for example, and I would take advise from the finishers to which I would be selling


  • #249
    DMAXMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭DMAXMAN


    as a buyer who bought weanlings in the w.e.p. time i had to have three different vaccines for the cattle when i brought them home to match what they had been done with first.saying that it was a great success. what i do now is give a large shot of alamycin 300 and a nasal vaccine on arriving home from mart. the best thing in the last year or two was the suckler cow scheme. the weaned calves are far less prone to pneumonia


  • #250
    pakalasa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    On IBR -
    I'm in the suckler Scheme and wean the calves in the autumn like I should. The last 2 years I notice that when weaned they are fine, but when the weather gets bad (wet and misty) they all seem to get snotty noses and start coughing. It wasn't a deep cough from the lungs like pneumonia and they were running around full of life. All of them would get it and they would have it for only a few days. Like a head-cold in humans. :)
    Would this be IBR?


  • #251
    Charlie Charolais
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭Charlie Charolais


    pakalasa wrote: »
    On IBR -

    Hi pak, I'm no expert but it does sound like it, a head cold is a good description


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