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Bioshock Infinite - 'The Ending' Discussion Thread (Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers!)

13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭Wossack


    are dewitt and comstock the same age when they meet?
    how do lutece and comstock initially meet?

    thinking perhaps I shouldnt scrutinise this too much..


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,160 ✭✭✭tok9


    Wossack wrote: »
    are dewitt and comstock the same age when they meet?
    how do lutece and comstock initially meet?

    thinking perhaps I shouldnt scrutinise this too much..

    Yes I think they are the same age, at least they must be pretty close it's just one has aged faster due to the tears.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,026 ✭✭✭Wossack


    yea, I seem to recall a recording saying as much - accelerated aging or the like due to use of the machine

    is it said how comstock manages to get dewitt into so much debt, and so desperate that he hands over Anna in the first place?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    Wossack wrote: »
    yea, I seem to recall a recording saying as much - accelerated aging or the like due to use of the machine

    is it said how comstock manages to get dewitt into so much debt, and so desperate that he hands over Anna in the first place?

    The debt was dewitts own doing. Sadness brought on by the death of his wife and beng alone to raise a child I would presume. If you look closely at the desk in bookers room, there are gambling stubs everywhere. Comstock just took advantage. ....he didnt cause it.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    I'm really glad you brought that up, not enough people are talking about this aspect of the game imo.

    I don't many gamers or publications will be willing to delve into the thematic core of what the game represents, TBH - I certainly think it's the rare game that renders traditional reviewing techniques largely redundant. Sure, the 'as is' sci-fi plot is servicable and distracting on its own terms, but it's there to explore very big ideas - the type games very, very rarely explore. This is a game of great subtlety alongside its more literal readings. The 'bird and cage' pendant can be read on many levels IMO - as symbols of freedom (bird) and oppression (cage) they're incredibly apt representations of the philosophical questions successfully explored in later chapters. It's a subtle choice but one that resonates throughout the story as we witness characters fighting battles of free will in opposition with restrictive forces both external and personal. It may seem like an arbitrary flourish at the time, but that simple a or b choice really is a much richer thematic one than any of Bioshock's 'Save or Harvest' the Little Sister decisions. The weight of those decisions ultimately amounted to little more than an unsatisfactory selection of endings. It's possible that Levine at the time was attempting to articulate many of the ideas much more fruitfully explored in the sequel but didn't quite get there (or at least got there inconsistently, with successful thematic experiments like the Atlas character proving awkward bedfellows with the lazy endings).

    That scene where Booker is forced to hand over baby Elizabeth is incredibly poignant as the choice is already determined and inevitable - and we feel that because it's entirely out of our control. The ending wonders if granded the opportunity to change decisions, would it even be possible? It's a game that uses the lack of player control as a strong narrative asset rather than a cheap attempt at aping cinema. The closest gaming equivalent I can think of is the ending of Half Life 2 Episode 2 when for the first time in the series you're held in place and unable to do anything. As you say, Mass Effect 3 for all the wrong reasons illuminates the restrictions of supposed player authorship - Bioshock Infinite does so in a much more active and positive way.

    There's been quite a few complaints about the combat too. Whatever about the mechanics themselves - which I mostly found engrossing with a few exceptions (frustrating respawn loops, bullet sponge enemies etc...) - this is one game that absolutely justifies its heavy emphasis on player-controlled violence. As I mentioned above, every action Booker takes is defined by his violent past - something he finds impossible to escape, and instead gets drawn into this cycle of destruction again and again (an emotion we as gamers may find far too easy to empathise with). Elizabeth is constantly questioning his actions, but the responses are always ones of weary resignation. In a way, even as he tries to protect this morally righteous soul, he's leading her down a dangerous path in which she's more or less forced to become an active agent in the violence. Is 'hero' Booker really any better than 'evil' Comstock (?) Booker? Again, I think Levine's admirable aim here is to raise a lot of fascinating questions rather than bluntly answer them.

    There's a lot of fascinating discussions the game provokes, may even need to play through sections again to really articulate some of my other thoughts on it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭Rezident


    Brilliant game and I loved the ending. When going all quantum and multidimensional I'm sure there are potential plot holes but it was so good I would rather just enjoy it than overanalyse it. The writing job done on the game alone was astonishing and I loved the gameplay with the skylines.

    Now to replay it on Medium and enjoy it all at a more leisurely pace and see what I missed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    screw that, do 1999 mode


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,338 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    I'm having trouble seeing where all the video logs that I missed were. I missed a fair few and I was playing on medium and exploring quite a lot, I must have just rushed a few parts...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭Rezident


    screw that, do 1999 mode

    Not a chance, Hard was mostly fine but there were moments of intense frustration, I used to play all games on Hard but after shooting the same person 24 times and them still being 100% fine, I stopped. Because it's ****. And lazy. So SO lazy, I mean if you want to use advanced AI and intelligent algorithms to make the AI harder, fair enough, but we're not there yet. Harder mode nowadays means double the hit points of enemies until you get bored of shooting them. Yawn.

    I can't wait for my Medium playthrough, I went over some areas five or six times and still found new things on my first playthrough and I still missed three vox tapes and goodness knows what else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭Rezident


    screw that, do 1999 mode

    First review of 1999 mode confirms what I already knew:
    1999 Mode, which is meant to be like games in 1999. It’s not – in 1999, you could quicksave. In this, you can’t afford to respawn as much, but you can still load the latest checkpoint. Unfortunately it also makes enemies tediously tough – three pistol headshots to kill a regular guard – so it’s just not very fun.
    http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/25/notes-on-the-pc-version-of-bioshock-infinite-graphics-settings-loot-glint-and-1999-mode/

    I can imagine what the bullet-sponge guys near the end are like. Tedious.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭Rezident


    I'm really glad you brought that up, not enough people are talking about this aspect of the game imo.

    During the 'ending' when you're walking among the lighthouses, Elizabeth is talking about constants and variables, and you're walking along pre-defined paths. This is a reflection of Bookers life and choices on the face of it. But without a doubt, it (and large elements of the game) are also commentaries on games as a whole. We're given nominal 'choices' in games, and indeed in Bioshock Infinite (Who do you throw the ball at, spare Slate or not, pull your gun at the counter, what what lasting change do any of these cause?).

    The Bird or the Cage pendant is a great example imo. People have been speculating about what it means and what effect it has. For me it's simply a representation that so many of the choices we make in games have superficial impact, and nothing more. We're being given the illusion of choice, but it is meaningless, as things that are going to happen will do so regardless. It would be nice to think the choices we make have deep repercussions, but in reality, we're playing within the confines of a closed system, and all our variables will eventually lead us to 1, or in some games a few, constants - ME springs to mind here, so many variables across 3 games, but in the end, for what?

    Back to the lighthouses at the end. Booker says "nobody tells me where to go" as a fixed path opens in front of him! That path then splits (the illusion of choice) but both paths still lead to the baptism.

    Indeed, it's because this is a game, and because of player agency that we can break from Booker's vicious cycle. The post credit scene takes place on the day where Booker gives up Anna, and too me, it's a statement that what follows the blank screen is up to you now.

    It's allegory like this that sets Irrational apart for me, and separates them from 99% of other developers out there. Ken Levine is a master craftsman, and I am in awe of him. To create a game like this, which can be enjoyed on so many levels is remarkable.

    To paraphrase a friend of mine, it's great to see a game made for adults, when so much of what we see might carry an 18-cert, but is clearly made for adolescents.

    Great point, that must be it. Quite clever really. Haven't been this excited about a second playthrough since half-life 2.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    im playing in 1999 mode and it's actually a challenge having a fight some of the times.
    some of the "hard" fights in hard mode were laughably easy, even in 1999 mode a lot of the game is kind of a doddle.. there's just more points than hard where you're forced to improvise or end up dying a few times. cant be bothered reading the article but he sounds like a whiny little git.

    handymen are a pain in the ass in either difficulty though


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,237 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    im playing in 1999 mode and it's actually a challenge having a fight some of the times.
    some of the "hard" fights in hard mode were laughably easy, even in 1999 mode a lot of the game is kind of a doddle.. there's just more points than hard where you're forced to improvise or end up dying a few times. cant be bothered reading the article but he sounds like a whiny little git.

    handymen are a pain in the ass in either difficulty though

    That's what I love. The 1999 move puts you into situations that make you think on your feet. I lost count of the number of times I had no shield and a sliver of health where I had a split second to do something to stay alive. Do I do for that cover 4 metres away or do I turn and hope the crows nullify the threat.

    Finally unboxed my songbird edition, I have to say it's one of the best I have ever bought. The statue is superb once it's put together.


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 DeSmasher


    Amazing game, Love it. Dare I say a bit short but looking forward to doing 1999 mode, not too many games deserve a second play through but I have a feeling that the second playthrough in this, once completed will still feel like an individual playthrough. Does that make sense?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,067 ✭✭✭Gunmonkey


    http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-awesome-flaws-in-new-bioshock-game/

    Good article at Cracked, second page lists a load of ideas and discussions from the game, lots of interesting theories floating round.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭hightower1


    Just finished tonight, meh. Its a good game just not a great game and most definitively not deserving of the hype.

    The art design and sound design were great and I have to say this is the first game that saddles you with a buddy AI that you actually like, is helpful and doesn't get in the way.

    The graphics, controls and story were only so so.
    The story felt like it was trying to build to a very cool and immensely clever twist but failed miserably. Worse still by the drawn out end sequence punctuated by an abrupt black out which almost felt like the writers actually thought the ending actually WAS clever or interesting?!

    Good game but I've honestly had more fun with "shallow" tactical shooters and popcorn games than this. Lesson learned though..... if everyone is gushing a bit too much don't take that as an indicator of anything!




    Edit: and now I think of it the whole story was almost a cabron copy of the final 2 part episode of Star Trek the next generation - all good things.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,713 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    hightower1 wrote: »

    The graphics, controls and story were only so so.
    The story felt like it was trying to build to a very cool and immensely clever twist but failed miserably. Worse still by the drawn out end sequence punctuated by an abrupt black out which almost felt like the writers actually thought the ending actually WAS clever or interesting?!

    Not going to argue with your mixed response to the game, but I can't agree the cut to black was abrupt. Thought it was a beautifully timed moment to cut to credits on. It not only coincided perfectly with the events on screen - the various Elizabeths disappearing, almost rhythmically - but also provided a definitive, appropriate end that also left just the right amount of cheeky mystery. I accidentally skipped the credits, but to be honest I'm glad I missed the post credit epilogue - the main ending was as good a note to end on as any.

    Indeed, it left me thinking how so few games have managed to utilise good old fade or cuts to black effectively. Couldn't count the amount of games that drag on in the concluding sections, or alternative preemptively finish up with a lousy whimper. The Infinite ending left me with that strong sense of finality (ironic given the subject matter of that final stretch) that a great film ending leaves you with - one that lingers in the mind and yet still feels immensely satisfying.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭Monotype


    Anyone notice that none of the Elizabeths were wearing her necklace that was picked on the beach?
    I was actually half expecting some of them to have the opposite to the one you picked.

    Also, I did remember that the Elizabeth in the early trailers looked a bit different. I was thinking, "Wouldn't it be cool if they used her model for one of the Elizabeths at the end?" - then I look at a video at the end just to check the necklaces again and behold, they used the original Elizabeth model over on the left! Really nice touch! :)

    TBH, I have to go with what some of the others are saying. It's a good game, but not fantastic as a whole. I like all the small details that were added in. There's a few things that really bugged me along the way - not the combat actually as many were pointing out, which I actually enjoyed, but I was turned off by characters, movement zones, atmosphere and damn autosaves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    hightower1 wrote: »
    and now I think of it the whole story was almost a cabron copy of the final 2 part episode of Star Trek the next generation - all good things.

    Yes, you are right. Bioshock Infinite is a carbon copy of TNG's ending. It's exactly like "All good things".

    I mean, Elizabeth killing the Comstock version of booker so that neither of them exists and she can live a normal life is exactly like when Data killed Picard so that the enterprise never went on it's mission.

    Oh wait, the TNG ending was nothing like that. :p


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,160 ✭✭✭tok9


    Monotype wrote: »
    Anyone notice that none of the Elizabeths were wearing her necklace that was picked on the beach?
    I was actually half expecting some of them to have the opposite to the one you picked.

    Yup, it just showed that none of the Elizabeths in there was the one who you were with throughout the game. I think Booker even says something like "Wait.. you're not.."


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,160 ✭✭✭tok9


    Also, Has anyone else heard about this Bioshock Easter egg.



    Whether intentional or coincidence I don't know, but it's pretty cool imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,084 ✭✭✭✭Kirby


    :eek:

    No way. It's just a sound effect being re-used. It is the same studio after all.

    On the other hand, what possible purpose does that ambient sound have in that room? It's very out of place.

    But surely they would have made it more obvious......like as you travel through one of the glass walkway's, you see a silhouette of songbird in the distance. Something more obvious. A sound effect seems too cryptic.

    My money is on pure coincidence. I think people are giving them too much credit. I hope to be proven wrong by the developers....probably through twitter because people will ask. :)


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 3,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dr Bob


    ..hey I loved the ending , but then it hit me.
    you know that sh*tty series of fights you have with the siren/ghost.
    After Elizabeth goes to her mothers grave to get her hand.To fool the scanner into letting them in the door to comstock house.Well...
    IF BOOKER HAD TRIED THAT DOOR IT WOULD HAVE OPENED!!
    lazy fecker!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭Somnus


    Dr Bob wrote: »
    ..hey I loved the ending , but then it hit me.
    you know that sh*tty series of fights you have with the siren/ghost.
    After Elizabeth goes to her mothers grave to get her hand.To fool the scanner into letting them in the door to comstock house.Well...
    IF BOOKER HAD TRIED THAT DOOR IT WOULD HAVE OPENED!!
    lazy fecker!

    Haha, that's a good point! That's the kind of thing where I wonder if the writers thought about it at all :P I know there's a lot of layers to the game, but that seems like something they might have just missed


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭Mr. K


    Dr Bob wrote: »
    IF BOOKER HAD TRIED THAT DOOR IT WOULD HAVE OPENED!!
    lazy fecker!

    But they didn't know that at the time!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,338 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    Just realised there I have a problem with multiple Elizabeths drowning Booker at the end. If it was one or even 2 and they didn't disappear at the end then it would make more sense. If all the Elizabeths are killing all the Comstock's at that moment it doesn't make sense that there are so many there unless it is only the one Comstock which with the infinite universe theory doesn't really work.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,504 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    Liam O wrote: »
    Just realised there I have a problem with multiple Elizabeths drowning Booker at the end. If it was one or even 2 and they didn't disappear at the end then it would make more sense. If all the Elizabeths are killing all the Comstock's at that moment it doesn't make sense that there are so many there unless it is only the one Comstock which with the infinite universe theory doesn't really work.

    They're the potential Elizabeths from the future branches, but there's only one initial DeWitt before the branching occurs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭Monotype


    Dr Bob wrote: »
    ..hey I loved the ending , but then it hit me.
    you know that sh*tty series of fights you have with the siren/ghost.
    After Elizabeth goes to her mothers grave to get her hand.To fool the scanner into letting them in the door to comstock house.Well...
    IF BOOKER HAD TRIED THAT DOOR IT WOULD HAVE OPENED!!
    lazy fecker!

    What about earlier in the game when Booker jumps onto the airship to blow it up. He was looking for the guns at that time so that he could get back onto the other airship.

    Why not just drive the one he was on to NY/Paris? Sure it wasn't as cushy as the other one, but still...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,220 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    I finished this yesterday, brilliant game and a great ending.

    Like others have said, it's a proper ending. It takes its time and it's not a matter of ''Beat the boss, bit of a wrap-up, credits...''

    It can twist your brain (it twisted mine anyway) but it really makes you think and that's why I like it so much. I've finished the game but I'm still going over stuff in my head but it isn't frustrating me. I can't remember a game ending that got that reaction from me.

    A lot of the other recent blockbusters have drawn mixed reactions from me towards their endings.

    Mass Effect 3: ''What? Why? What happened there?''
    Tomb Raider: ''That was cool, moving on.''
    Far Cry 3: ''That was cool, moving on.''
    Assassins Creed 3: ''Meh.''

    But I'll probably be going over stuff in my head and piecing things together from Bioshock in a few days. I'm not doing 1999 mode though, doing the final battle on Comstock's ship on hard mode had me grinding my teeth so I dread to think what that would be like '99 mode. I might do a easy mode run through to soak everything up with minimal fuss.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭Rezident


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Nice one!

    I restarted the game on easy and got back to the point where the incredible barbershop quartet sing "God only knows what I'd be without you". The lyrics, taken in the context of what has happened in the ending, is incredibly poignant.



    "I may not always love you
    But long as there are stars above you
    You never need to doubt it
    Ill make you so sure about it

    God only knows what I'd be without you

    If you should ever leave me
    Though life would still go on believe me
    The world could show nothing to me
    So what good would living do me


    God only knows what I'd be without you

    God only knows what I'd be without you

    If you should ever leave me
    Well life would still go on believe me
    The world could show nothing to me
    So what good would living do me

    God only knows what I'd be without you"

    So true! I completely missed the barber shop quartet first time around. So much quality content even on my second play through and so many things make sense on a different level now. Incredible game.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    J. Marston wrote: »
    But I'll probably be going over stuff in my head and piecing things together from Bioshock in a few days. I'm not doing 1999 mode though, doing the final battle on Comstock's ship on hard mode had me grinding my teeth so I dread to think what that would be like '99 mode. I might do a easy mode run through to soak everything up with minimal fuss.
    There is a really easy way to do the final bit. When I figured it, it was honestly too easy.
    Use return to sender on the core so that it doesn't take much damage.

    And that's all there is to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,231 ✭✭✭Hercule Poirot


    Finished it there an hour or two ago, my brain has melted and I have a strange look on my face. Really liked Elizabeth, even as my head sank below the water I felt strangely at peace, a great achievement from Irrational.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭wayne040576


    Finished it there an hour or two ago, my brain has melted and I have a strange look on my face. Really liked Elizabeth, even as my head sank below the water I felt strangely at peace, a great achievement from Irrational.

    Finished it about an hour ago myself. Kinda feel the same. All I say at this stage is that I like how they had the 50/50 chance hints from the very beginning. (flipping the coin, choosing the necklace).

    And I think this song will be giving me nightmares tonight (from time 1.25):



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Great game. Loved it and the ending.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭joe123


    Still not gone on the ending the more I think about it. I know he went down two different paths but would the Comstock booker really be a completely different person after his Baptism?

    Sure he might have different beliefs, but I mean he is drastically different. Hes racist for one, which is completely against what Booker was.

    And one annoying thing, Comstock has a completely different voice to that of Bookers.....and the Comstock holding the baby before Elizabeth lost her finger looked nothing like Booker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    joe123 wrote: »
    Still not gone on the ending the more I think about it. I know he went down two different paths but would the Comstock booker really be a completely different person after his Baptism?

    Sure he might have different beliefs, but I mean he is drastically different. Hes racist for one, which is completely against what Booker was.

    And one annoying thing, Comstock has a completely different voice to that of Bookers.....and the Comstock holding the baby before Elizabeth lost her finger looked nothing like Booker.

    All of the above is explained in the audio logs dotted around Columbia. Firstly, the baptism did change Booker/Comstock quite drastically. Firstly, the DeWitt that went through the baptism used it as a way to wash away his sins, not only allowing his mind to get over the shame but actually celebrate his actions and use them to turn him into a hero.

    As for the different look and sound, it is explained that using the tears quite frequently has caused Comstock to age rapidly so what you are seeing is a fairly damaged version of DeWitt. Finally, the tears also eventually made him sterile, so when he wanted an heir, he set into motion the events of the game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,523 ✭✭✭joe123


    Otacon wrote: »
    All of the above is explained in the audio logs dotted around Columbia. Firstly, the baptism did change Booker/Comstock quite drastically. Firstly, the DeWitt that went through the baptism used it as a way to wash away his sins, not only allowing his mind to get over the shame but actually celebrate his actions and use them to turn him into a hero.

    As for the different look and sound, it is explained that using the tears quite frequently has caused Comstock to age rapidly so what you are seeing is a fairly damaged version of DeWitt. Finally, the tears also eventually made him sterile, so when he wanted an heir, he set into motion the events of the game.

    I picked up all but 9 audio logs I think but it still doesn't explain why Booker looks nothing like the Comstock we see just before the baby loses its finger. NOTHING alike. And this Comstock was still young with brown hair.

    Still not gone on the explanation for the different voice too. Its drastically different.

    And if I missed an audio log on how De witt totally changed his views on EVERYTHING after the baptism then fair enough. But I mean, hes not even close to having any of the same characteristics but if it was explained in a log I missed fair enough.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    I was actually watching my housemate playing it there last night. At some points near the start of the game where Comstock is talking to Brooker, Brooker talks along with him. Quiet, subtle, but it's there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,160 ✭✭✭tok9


    joe123 wrote: »
    Still not gone on the explanation for the different voice too. Its drastically different.

    But I mean, hes not even close to having any of the same characteristics but if it was explained in a log I missed fair enough.

    The voice can be explained off through the tears and getting older.

    Is there a side by side comparison of Comstock and Booker? I wouldnt say they look completely different. Obviously, the major difference I can see is the beard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,220 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    tok9 wrote: »
    Is there a side by side comparison of Comstock and Booker? I wouldnt say they look completely different. Obviously, the major difference I can see is the beard.

    Booker (I found this on the Bioshock forums, not sure if it's actually official)

    sSPBe7s0j1M.jpg

    Young Comstock

    fb7f6b58-c423-4be6-83bc-09c9fe7f2ab9.jpg

    Old Comstock (Best pic I could find that wasn't a poster in-game)

    2461886-2013-03-27_00047.jpg

    Booker and young Comstock are identical but for the beard, bit harder to see the old Comstock picture but the similarities are there.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    joe123 wrote: »
    Sure he might have different beliefs, but I mean he is drastically different. Hes racist for one, which is completely against what Booker was.

    Found this on the Giantbomb site:
    Why does Booker become Comstock? How does baptism turn him into a religious zealot and racist?

    The answer to this is twofold. The religious zealotry comes from the visions that he believes are gifts from god in the form of prophecy, but are actually glimpses into alternate dimensions via tears. Everything he does, from raising Columbia, to kidnapping Elizabeth, to his endgame of a New York on fire, is a result of his attempt to fulfill these visions.

    The racism ties in to one of the underlying themes of BioShock Infinite, forgiveness of oneself. The baptism is an attempt by Booker to come to terms with the atrocities committed at Wounded Knee. However, regardless of whether or not he accepts baptism, he is unable to forgive himself. In the "rejects baptism" reality this sense of guilt manifests itself in his horrible alcoholism and gambling debt. In the "accepts baptism" reality, Comstock forces himself to see non-whites as subhuman to make their wholesale slaughter more palatable in his mind.

    "Comstock feels self-loathing for himself due to his implied Native American lineage - there are two recordings which heavily imply this. The first one has Comstock complaining that he was suspected of being mixed-race, which completely outrages him. The second is a recording of Preston E. Downes talking how he met the martyr!Booker. The recording states that Booker knows Sioux, which is how he helps him communicate with an Indian boy." -Ghostiet


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,917 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Just finished it there, overall hugely disappointing the whole game was ruined knowing that there was some twist to come at the end and I felt everything I was doing was pointless and just to kill time before setting up some weird ending. It all got a bit Twin Peaks there near the end.

    So many missions involve going from point A to point B then Back to A to get to C then back to B then through a tear into an alternative A,B and C shooting set number of enemies each time. I got fairly sick of back tracking. That whole lady Comstock thing was a pain.

    Presentation was stunning I really liked the artwork and the feel of the city but boy did it lack any kind of exploration or anything to get invested in. So much work went into this it deserved better. The tears and bringing in things from other times/dimensions was a really good touch. But pretty forgettable game to be honest when you put it up against Bioshock 1 which I still think is a work of art.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 EmmyOk


    I quite enjoyed the ending. I had to read some summaries just to make sure I fully understood all of it, or at least most of it. I'm not sure if I still need spoiler tags, but I'll assume I do. I thought
    only one booker was drowned at the baptism, which closed off all the other potential Comstock/DeWitt realities because it was the branching point
    .

    Someone mentioned earlier hearing a sound similar to Songbird in the original bioshock, and that it might be
    Songbird's death foreshadowed all the way back then
    . As cool as that would be, Levine mentioned that originally the Songbird was going to sound like a Big Daddy rather than high-pitched. So they couldn't have decided to put that Easter Egg in back when they were making Bioshock.

    For me the most interesting part of the ending was
    "there is always a man and a lighthouse" etc.
    . Making the games all parallel stories exploring different themes. Most articles I read though drew the obvious similarities (Ryan -> Comstock, Jack -> Booker, Little Sisters -> Elizabeth) but connected Fontaine/Atlas with Daisy Fitzroy. Which seems wrong to me. In the same way Elizabeth is multiple people in Bioshock, I think Fontaine is multiple people in Infinite. Atlas is Fitzroy, but I think Fontaine's parallel would definitely be Fink.

    Both are charismatic con-men who set up manufacturing businesses that are essential to the primary antagonist. Fontaine Futuristics and Fisheries as well as his homes for the poor are very similar to Fink MFG and how his workers live in the factory. I am not sure if he invented them in Rapture but Fontaine was definitely a manufacturer of Plasmids and of course Fink brought Vigors to Columbia. I also felt that Fink's massive golden statue was a stick in the for Comstock, it was like a Golden Calf. I think if Booker hadn't shown up, Fink and Comstock were destined to clash. Which would parallel Ryan trying to destroy Fontaine.

    The relationship between Fink and Daisy kind of buggers the theory a bit though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,912 ✭✭✭SeantheMan



    Presentation was stunning I really liked the artwork and the feel of the city but boy did it lack any kind of exploration or anything to get invested in. So much work went into this it deserved better. The tears and bringing in things from other times/dimensions was a really good touch. But pretty forgettable game to be honest when you put it up against Bioshock 1 which I still think is a work of art.

    I'm of the same opinion, enjoyable game, I had a great time playing it. But I wouldn't be going around praising it all day and giving it 10/10 .
    When anyone asks if I played it I say yes...and then ask them if they've played Bioshock 1....to which most say no. I then just try convince them to play Bioshock 1 as it is a much better game.

    There were never any "tense" moments, like the way you had to plan about attacking a "big daddy"

    My favourite part of Bioshock Infinite was when I was back in rapture.

    Biggest disappointment about the game, the plasmids ....no need for them whatsoever. I didn't need to use about 70% of them. Electricity here and there, and upgrade the "crow trap" to full....so they constantly make crow traps, and then just upgrade certain weapons and it's as easy.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My brain is on fire. Whut just happened? Well, I get bits and pieces, but I think I need to replay soon, with the ending fresh in my mind. Its so good. It was great to have a fully wrapped up game, with seemingly no chance of a sequel. Well, hopefully.

    What did they mean at the beginning by, "he doesn't row"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 EmmyOk



    What did they mean at the beginning by, "he doesn't row"?


    The Lutece's are checking to see what changes each time they bring a Booker to try and get Elizabeth. For example at the coin toss Booker's choice might change but it always lands on heads no matter what. That is why Robert has the chalkboard with all the strikes for heads. The amount of strikes is also the reasoning behind which number Booker the one we play is. When they say he doesn't row, they mean no Booker they have brought through to rescue Elizabeth has ever rowed, hence "He doesn't row". Constants and variables as Elizabeth later says.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Can anyone explain the whole asylum thing? I was a bit lost with that. What exactly was that guy?

    Also just noticed.. the attack on New York happened in or around 1983/1984. If you look in the background of this clip, you can see a news ticker which says "Columbia Sky City threatens New York something/01/83 Evacuation".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    EmmyOk wrote: »
    I'm not sure if I still need spoiler tags, but I'll assume I do.

    You're fine. The thread is about the end, so there's little chance of not having spoilers here. :D
    EmmyOk wrote: »
    For me the most interesting part of the ending was
    "there is always a man and a lighthouse" etc.
    . Making the games all parallel stories exploring different themes. Most articles I read though drew the obvious similarities (Ryan -> Comstock, Jack -> Booker, Little Sisters -> Elizabeth) but connected Fontaine/Atlas with Daisy Fitzroy. Which seems wrong to me. In the same way Elizabeth is multiple people in Bioshock, I think Fontaine is multiple people in Infinite. Atlas is Fitzroy, but I think Fontaine's parallel would definitely be Fink.
    You have to remember that they hadn't planned out this game when the first one was made, so there's bound to be plot holes when tying the two stories together.

    The "there is always a man and a lighthouse" line basically said to me that the ending was pointless, as there's no possible way to stop it from happening, since there's an infinite amount of possibilities.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just found this.. very interesting.

    Apparently throughout the game you could hear some ambient noises. Someone then took this noise and sped it up.. seemingly its an actual melody and song that are playing.



    (you can switch between the different speeds to hear it)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,279 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Having just completed it, have to say i'm disappointed. Good game, but a few downfalls imo.

    The Vigors: only used Bucking Bronco really (and Possession for getting monies from the vending machines). The Devils Kiss was used towards the end, but after i got BB i didn't use anything else. Murder of Crows felt way under-powered, Undertow was crap, Shock Jockey was under-powered, Charge was alright but usually left you wide open for a boot in the face, and Return to Sender was meh.

    The weapons was also meh. Literally had the Huntsman Carbine for the whole game once i got it. Changed the second weapon around a little bit, usually between the Hand Cannon and Shotgun, but the Carbine was the best weapon.

    Got sick of checking everything for loot. I think Borderlands is to blame for this.

    The ending. Felt like a cop out to me. As someone said in this thread, it felt to me akin to ending with "And then he woke up". I get what Levine was doing, but it ruined the game for me to be honest. But, that could also be the fault of Bioshock 1, which is still the best game in the series and had, imo, a fantastically better ending.

    But, the game did have it's merits. The first truly likeable "partner" character since Alyx from Half Life. And they had the facial expressions done perfectly for her, like depending on her mood with you she wore a different expression while ye were walking around. And they didn't turn her into an escort mission character either, i hate them!

    The city was lovely, but like others i expected more zip-lining.

    I don't know, it just didn't do it for me. I much preferred the environments of the first 2. 6/10 for me.


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