Dublin Marathon 2016 - Mentored Novices Thread

Wow - so many people joining the thread already! I know I still have a few individuals to respond to, but since there are many questions about the right pace to run, I thought I'd focus on that first.

Do you want the short version: slow down. As you may have seen from the various replies above, the pace(s) at which to run your training runs, is one of the most important things to get right, and unfortunately, also one of the more difficult ones. There's a wealth of information online on this, but I'll summarize my views and experience on the matter (and I hope the more experienced runners will join in the fun!).

The boards plan is the more sophisticated plan in terms of pace-variety. It include runs of 4 different pace types. From fastest to slowest, these are:

• Pace runs
• Easy runs
• Long slow runs
• Recovery runs

Pace runs are ran at "PMP", or "planned marathon pace". Typically, the plan calls for an easy mile or so of warm-up, then (say) 4 miles at PMP, then a mile of cool-down. A kilometer-and-a-half of w/u and c/d will do for the more metric minded folks. Planned marathon pace is a tricky one. This is much slower than you might think. This is slower than you've ever ran a race! If you have experience doing 5k/10k/HM races, you'll probably have ran these faster than your PMP for this year's main event. What is PMP for you? This is roughly equivalent to asking what finishing time you'll aim for. You should try and find a realistic answer to this - which, as Ososlo said during her tenure, might not be the same as your aspirational answer.

That said, don't sweat it too much. If anything, ([HM PB] * 2) + 20/25 minutes is conventional guidance. Once you have established that, convert it to PMP using any of the online tools.

http://www.helpfulrunner.com/tools/running-pace-calculator.php
http://bane.info
(there are many of these tools out there).

For example: you've ran one or more HM around 1h50. What should your PMP be? You would really, really, REALLY like to finish in 3h45 on the day. Is that PMP? Nope. That's aspirational, not realistic. Realistic would be 4h00. A 4h marathon translates to 9:09 min/mi, or 5:41 min/km.

Easy runs should be done at an easy, comfortable, conversational pace. If you're breathing frequency gets too quick, you are running too fast. If you can't hold conversation, you are running too fast. Easy pace should be ~30-45 sec/km or 45-60 sec/mile slower than PMP.

Our example runner above should run easy runs at ~10 min/mi or 6:15 min/km. That's slow!

Long slow runs are even slower! You should never run your LSRs faster than easy pace, and ideally, another chunk slower. Our dude above should run 6:30 min/km, or 10:30 min/mi. The online calculators will tell you the exact numbers. These are a guidance, by the way.

This might seem maddeningly slow the first time you're trying this. Believe me, I've been there last year, cursing at my Garmin watch when it told me I went too fast despite running what felt like slow! You have to really start practicing this as soon as. Do the maths (without sweating it), and get a feel for what your LSR pace might be. Then go out for a run and try and stick to that pace. This weekend sounds like an excellent time! Let us know how you get on!

I touched on the main reasons for running LSRs at that slow pace already: LSRs are there to expose your body to running for hours and hours at the time. You need to get used to the pounding of the feet, ankles, knees, hips. Your muscles need to get used to being engaged for such a long time, and become efficient at delivering. You're not practicing running at PMP during your LSRs. You're practicing running for a long, long time during your LSRs. You will not be able to sustain the program, or run the risk of injuries, if you run your LSRs at PMP. Again, there's a wealth of information on why running slow, in the previous two Novices threads or online.

If you want to take away one thing from this thread, it's this: slow down. Miles make champions. Regardless of plan, ambition, etc, you need hundreds of miles in your legs come October 30. You won't be able to clock up all these miles if you run your training runs too hard.

Between now and the start of the training programs at the end of June, I would encourage you all to get used to running 4x a week, at the paces described above. This won't happen over night - it really needs training to train properly.

Some of you have inquired about running by heart-rate. We have an expert on that on our panel - Firedance might share some wisdom on that over the weekend. Other than that, enjoy your slow running this weekend! :cool:

djemba djemba wrote: »

Delighted to join this thread. Nice to have support and join the journey with you all.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Only started racing since the Waterford Quarter marathon last year.
My PB's; 10KM= 39.12 DLR Bay 10KM August 2015
10 mile = 1.03.34 Battle of Clontarf March 2016
Half Marathon = 1.29.21 Gingerbread Run November 2015

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)
No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
Currently training for the Cork Half Marathon so this week up to 55 km a week. Pilates once a week. Trying to increase foam rolling. Had been getting sports massage once a week but that has dropped off recently.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?
Would love to finish in under 3 hours. My aim for the year was Dublin Marathon in under 3 hours and under a hour for 10 mile.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?
I am going to follow the 18 week Pfitzinger and Douglas plan. After the Cork half marathon I am heading to France for the Euros but when I am back my marathon training plan will begin then. Will bring the running gear to France with me.

Why are you running this marathon?
I stopped playing GAA last year and started cycling more. Towards the end of last year I started running parkruns, 10 km etc really enjoyed it so the kicked something off. just happened to be on the Luas on the morning of the 2015 Dublin Marathon enjoyed the nervous energy and excitement so want to join in.

Pacing is my biggest concern.
Looking forward to sharing and reading your posts and tips.

Hello djemba djemba -

I travelled into town on the LUAS on the morning of the event. I was so nervous I forgot to tag on! So I had to dash out at the next stop to tag on. I still recall the looks on the faces on the early commuters, surrounded by runners!

Welcome to the thread! Am I correct in saying that you are running less than a year? If so, your progress has been quite remarkable!

The sub-3 hour marathon thread should be a great resource for you. I am delighted if you share your experiences with us. Glad to see you do Pilates, I think it is superb cross-training.

Remind me, when is the Cork marathon, and what is your target? The very best of luck, another excellent opportunity for a race report!

Good luck!

tailgunner wrote: »

Hello!

I followed this thread religiously last year, and was delighted to see it pop up again this week - even more so seeing that it's under the stewardship of nop98.

Unfortunately for me, I seem to have picked the wrong marathon. I entered the ballot for Berlin on a whim, and was surprised to be selected.

Anyway, even though I'm not doing DCM this year, I'm absolutely a marathon novice, so... can I play too?

For a bit of background - I'm 30, male, from Cork, and have been living in merry olde Oxford, England for the last two years. I used to think I had a fairly neutral accent, but most people react like I've just emerged from a bog whenever I speak. Apart from that, I really like it here, and it's a great place for running.

I did C25k last January, having not really exercised since school, and haven't looked back since. I have a training log over here.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

I've only done a handful of proper races, but here are my PBs:

5k - March 2016 - 23:41 (This was the second half of the 10k race below. I haven't raced a 5k in a good while, but I'm doing one next week!)
10k - March 2016 - 48:20
Half - April 2016 - 1:49:36

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

No.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

I usually run 5 days a week. Generally a tempo or interval session, a race pace session depending on what I'm training for, a long run, and two short recovery runs.

My long run peaked at 15 miles before the half marathon in April, but 10 miles is the farthest I've gone since.

I don't do any cross-training, unless you count going for a walk the odd lunchtime. I do some stretching and foam-rolling when I feel I need it.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

I've had "sub-4 marathon" in my head for ages now, so it's definitely the dream time and I think I'm in a position now where it's a fairly realistic time as well. I'll definitely train towards it, and see what happens.

Having said that, finishing the marathon will be more than enough of a consolation prize if I fall short of the time.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

I think I could physically train 6 days, maybe even 7, but I don't think I'd be up to that mentally. I'd prefer to keep it at 5 for now.

I'm going with the BAA Level 2 plan, which is a 22-week plan. I had already started a 5k plan by the time I settled on this, so I'm going to finish that first and jump in at week 4 on 16th May, following it for the remaining 19 weeks. My current mileage matches up very nicely with the first few weeks of it anyway.

Might need to adjust the plan a bit to allow for a couple of races I want to do - a 10k in July and Half in August, but will do my best to follow it closely apart from that.

Why are you running this marathon?

Being honest, running a marathon has never been a bucket-list goal or anything like that - it just seemed like the next logical step in my running career. Now that I'm signed up though, it feels like the most important thing in the world.

I had originally planned on doing DCM this year, and was only really chancing my arm when I entered the ballot for Berlin. Part of me is disappointed not to be doing my first marathon on home soil, but Berlin is a city that means an awful lot to me personally, and it feels right to be running my first marathon there.

Hey tailgunner - welcome on board, we were expecting you!

You seem on an excellent track towards Berlin. Of course you're welcome to play am I right in saying you'll be just ahead of us in terms of plans? I am looking forward to your stories of tapering madness when we're all still grappling with 20-mile LSRs.

As with the most other participants - don't do 7 days a week.. You'll need your rest days. Even 6 is plenty. I always had one day off, and one day as a recovery run, during which I often wondered why I had bothered to change into my running gear at all.

I have dipped into your log from time to time already. Thanks for linking to it! For other Novices, keeping a log here (or anywhere) is a great way to keep up with yourself, and I encourage you all to keep one (even on paper / file). It allows you to record how your run went, had you any niggles, thoughts on how to what to improve / avoid, etc. Also, it can be quite motivational to read back on your running of the last few weeks, when you're not feeling too hot.

Welcome on board, tailgunner! Looking forward to seeing how you get on!