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A chance to scrap the Angelus - Nutella, Croissants and Pineapples.

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    #482
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    Excuse me, i was not making fun of anyones religion. It was merely an unsuccessful attempt at some light humour. I think its important we laugh at ourselves from time to time rather than fight over these matters. I honestly mean no offence and once again mean no harm to anybody. I wouldn't say this a truly secular state either obviously in the sense of the word. We will for the foreseeable future please god continue to adorn the crucifix on the walls of our schools?

    Why do schools need a cross with a dying man on their walls? Do all schools need them on all walls? You're right in that this isn't truly a secular state. Having a state run school system would help move us in the right direction though. I'd rather not have my children wondering why there's a dead man made of wood hanging on the wall in school and being indoctrinated against our family's ethos.


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    #483
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »

    Well what I'm referring to here is simply the fact that quite a large part of Irelands beautiful acreage is owned by outside interests...interests that are non-irish. Multi national companies, in case you have been asleep, have bought up, are buying up or looking to buy up swathes of various sectors of our economy and our foreign government, it would appear are only too happy to let them do so. Lets please get away from the attacking the catholic church thing its not helpful. Its easy to do for people like you, in light of recent events in our history which were admittedly wrong and downright atrocious. 'and i tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock i will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it'. The church will bounce back, it always does pal
    SpaceTime wrote: »
    2. Slavery?! - a certain group of religious orders actually managed to go that route in the 20th century by forcing women into indentured servitude as laundry slaves.
    Again, you misconstrued. Im referring to the British empire who has a dirty history of enslavery. Did you know that between 1641 to 1652 they enslaved or murdered 1 million Irish people? Irish fathers separated from their wives and children.But at least the slavery i speak of brought Rihanna to the world eh?
    SpaceTime wrote: »
    3. The whole concept of a secular state is that everyone has equal rights to be religious or not to be religious. The state and its services should remain neutral on this. That doesn't impact Catholic rights it simply prevents any religion from being de facto the "state religion"

    We do not have a state religion, many of our ancestors fought long and hard to get a way from a situation where they were a vaguely tolerated minority in a state that established the Anglican Church as the official religion.

    All this stuff like the Angulus on RTE, the prayers at the Dail and Seanad, councillors forcing crucifixes into council chambers, prayers before council meetings, the public school system being almost entirely religious and so on shows that we have no concept of republican values and that we've actually allowed a de facto established church to develop.
    Yes exactly.... and we fought and died to be the majority once again?? People still have the right in this country to freely practice their religion? I agree that the church and state was too closely linked and of course the many republicans originally were proponents of this separation . But once again we earned the right to practice our faith in these small non offensive ways. I don't see any recruitment campaigns going on, no indoctrinations or brainwashing. Just a few small moments of reflection. You would like to open the floodgates of hell and have a free for all? Don't forget that this country is predominantly a Christian country and will remain so for the foreseeable future. And although we love and have respect for our fellow brothers and sisters always, we must NEVER forget the word of the Father almighty which we believe in, and his commandments. This is more important than any of the **** you guys argue...this remains the majority of Irish peoples operating manual. The ten commandments. Read number 2.

    Maybe you should leave if you feel so strongly? I don't know that would be up to you at the end of the day. All i can advise you is to be ready for the day you see the face of our lord, the higher power. I hope you find him at peace with yourself. I sincerely hope that your relative finds a suitable school. Bless.

    You seem very keen on people leaving. Would you be happier in a little enclave somewhere? A monastery perhaps?


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    #484
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    Fred, if one child in the classroom stomps their feet and says 'i don't like maths...we are not doing any maths today' we would have nobody to build our bridges, run our economies or shape the world we live in.


    Please don't compare maths in anyway to some stone age superstitious nonsense, it's insulting to the progress our species has made.


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    #485
    Skrynesaver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭Skrynesaver


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    Academic disection of frankly unintelligible gibberish

    I'm not sure whether I should be stunned at you ability as a logician, amazed at your patience or invite you to come outside for a pint and learn to let it go ;)

    Sadly it's possible that some readers may fail to read your dissertation in its entirety and focus in on your failure to cover bizarre obscure argument number 2,357 ;)


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    #486
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,131 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    Read the ten commandments Fred and let go of your past. [...] Maybe you are struggling with your lack of faith and just on a power trip?

    New poster begins evangelising fairly sharpish.

    Colour me surprised. :rolleyes:


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    #487
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    Fred [...] trip?
    tirchonaill86 - a paragraph break here and there would aid readability.

    Many thanks.


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    #488
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    I most certainly am not advocating any form of cleansing.

    Then why are you advocating the removal from Ireland of those who disagree with your personal opinion?


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    #489
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    Then why are you advocating the removal from Ireland of those who disagree with your personal opinion?

    Twice in a single thread too!


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    #490
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    The church will bounce back, it always does pal
    I'm sure the druids said the same.


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    #491
    obplayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭obplayer


    robindch wrote: »
    I'm sure the druids said the same.

    But his sky fairy is bigger than their sky fairy!


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    #492
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    lazygal wrote: »
    Why do schools need a cross with a dying man on their walls? Do all schools need them on all walls? You're right in that this isn't truly a secular state. Having a state run school system would help move us in the right direction though. I'd rather not have my children wondering why there's a dead man made of wood hanging on the wall in school and being indoctrinated against our family's ethos.

    Thats an extremely disrespectful thing to say about a man who died for our eternal salvation. That really goes beyond the realms of a crude joke into the more sinister world of mockery. I believe this was a man who suffered so that we could one day reach heaven. A dead man made of wood is a really nice mockery of my beliefs--- thank you for your hurtful comments. You remind me of the men who mocked him while he was on the cross. A child who has not been educated on this great man would obviously wonder why there is a dead man made of wood hanging on the wall, as you put out. But the cross is much more than that. It is a symbol of my faith. A symbol of victory over the dark powers of this world...the ones we sadly see grow in strength every day on our news. I hate to think what your little child will grow up to be if his mother is making a blatant attempt at complete mockery of the figurehead of another persons faith. I mean we can all take a joke...i certainly can but mockery is quite a different thing indeed


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    #493
    Mysterypunter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Mysterypunter


    This is a trivial and Irrelevant topic. More pressing matters happening now. My brother is an athiest and he just slates people who follow religion. If you dont care about it dont go to mass.


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    #494
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,865 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Mysterypunter wrote: »
    This is a trivial and Irrelevant topic. More pressing matters happening now. My brother is an athiest and he just slates people who follow religion. If you dont care about it dont go to mass.

    That's all well and good until you want to find a school for your child(ren).


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    #495
    padohaodha
    Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭padohaodha


    im too busy watching the angelus im afraid;-)...could not the atheist movement push for a minute of tv time as well...i would have no problem with that....then everyone should be happy bar the perennially insulted...by the way u couldnt play me ....im not a kid
    Huntergonzo wrote: »
    Ok well do you want to answer the questions I raised over Gods and I promise in advance I won't play you at... all.....unless you of course you decide that your God has a place in my life, then it's open season, fair is fair.

    Why do people feel the need for a God? Why are there so many Gods? Which God is the real one? And do you believe in all the God's?


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    #496
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    Thats an extremely disrespectful thing to say about a man who died for our eternal salvation. That really goes beyond the realms of a crude joke into the more sinister world of mockery. I believe this was a man who suffered so that we could one day reach heaven. A dead man made of wood is a really nice mockery of my beliefs--- thank you for your hurtful comments. You remind me of the men who mocked him while he was on the cross. A child who has not been educated on this great man would obviously wonder why there is a dead man made of wood hanging on the wall, as you put out. But the cross is much more than that. It is a symbol of my faith. A symbol of victory over the dark powers of this world...the ones we sadly see grow in strength every day on our news. I hate to think what your little child will grow up to be if his mother is making a blatant attempt at complete mockery of the figurehead of another persons faith. I mean we can all take a joke...i certainly can but mockery is quite a different thing indeed

    Those are your beliefs! The poster doesn't share them and sees things differently to you.
    That's neither insulting nor is it mocking.

    We don't actually live in a Catholic version of Iran and she is completely entitled to disagree with you, have a different perspective and see a symbol totally differently to you.

    If you're offended by it, you've an extremely low threshold of offence and unfortunately, there's very little anyone else can do about that.

    You've already twice told people on this thread to get out of their own country because you seem to think that it's "my way or the highway" yet we're supposed to take no offence to that...


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    #497
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    I sense an atheist invasion here? Listen I'm not here to spread hate. I come in peace. Excuse my lack of paragraphs, I'm not very tech savvy yet and I'm still getting the hang of the buttons. I know and appreciate some of your concerns also. I didn't advocate people leaving, i left that choice up to them. At the end of the day there will always be people in every establishment who don't conform to the mission statement.

    Thats how the world came about after all, as a result of a rebellion of 33 per cent of the angels. Now while I'm not likening any of you guys to the fallen angels, i think this merely serves to highlight the weaknesses of the Catholic church, its leadership and how it has been run to date. This is something that is being worked on and its a slow process admittedly. But we have to separate our lord and saviour Jesus Christ from the mistakes of man, because man will always fcuk up, but we can't just take away the symbols of our faith?. This country is, in the large majority, a country of Catholics who don't interfere with people of other faith or lack of. Everybody is welcome here but that doesn't mean we should remove the symbols that are important to us. Where will the lines be drawn?


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    #498
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    An Atheist invasion? What forum did you think you were posting in?


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    #499
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    If you look at the forum title you might get a clue where you're posting!!

    It's very hard to invade your own country too!


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    #500
    Mysterypunter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Mysterypunter


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    That's all well and good until you want to find a school for your child(ren).
    Have none Pope. Wont in the future either. This is a bit of an opinion. Do you or dont yu like the angelus. If you dont, turn it off. Cheers for the reply.


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    #501
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Mysterypunter wrote: »
    Have none Pope. Wont in the future either. This is a bit of an opinion. Do you or dont yu like the angelus. If you dont, turn it off. Cheers for the reply.

    I thought Catholics were supposed to be open to procreation and God's gift of children?


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    #502
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    Those are your beliefs! The poster doesn't share them and sees things differently to you.
    That's neither insulting nor is it mocking.

    We don't actually live in a Catholic version of Iran and she is completely entitled to disagree with you, have a different perspective and see a symbol totally differently to you.

    If you're offended by it, you've an extremely low threshold of offence and unfortunately, there's very little anyone else can do about that.

    You've already twice told people on this thread to get out of their own country because you seem to think that it's "my way or the highway" yet we're supposed to take no offence to that...

    I have already made a heartfelt apology for the way i put across my views which i never intended to be aggressive or instructive. Please read back. i don't take anything you say seriously anyway because you misinterpret basic english. I think by saying that Jesus Christ, who the vast majority of Catholics rely and confide in for solace and comfort in times of hardship, sickness and persecution, is a dead man made of wood goes way beyond disagreeing with someone. There are lots of people today who are suffering as we speak terminally ill or with a loved one who is. These people pray to Jesus Christ for ease from their symptoms, to be saved from dying or pain, they ask this higher power to help them and you are saying that calling the spiritual being they believe in a dead man on a piece of wood is acceptable? You are saying that isn't offensive or considerate of a fellow human beings feelings? If you do you are an absolute fool. That is complete mockery!


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    #503
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    The ten commandments say something about idolatry don't they. Is a figure made of wood representing some Jewish guy who died 2,000 years ago something God wants Catholics to spend their time worshiping? Did God say such trinkets should be in schools?


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    #504
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    lazygal wrote: »
    The ten commandments say something about idolatry don't they. Is a figure made of wood representing some Jewish guy who died 2,000 years ago something God wants Catholics to spend their time worshiping? Did God say such trinkets should be in schools?

    I rest my case. I have said all i need to say on this subject. You will all feel very small when you kneel before your maker one day. I can feel the heat coming off the lot of ye....the stench of evil. That dead man made of wood....you will beg him one day for his mercy. I really don't want to bow to your ignorance as i would be letting myself down. I know there is a human being behind every one of us...and maybe you experienced some trauma in your lives or it wasn't your fault that you were blocked from gods love and i mean these words in a nice sincere way. God bless. I will pray for your return.


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    #505
    Mysterypunter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Mysterypunter


    lazygal wrote: »
    I thought Catholics were supposed to be open to procreation and God's gift of children?
    Probably are my dear. But I cant even mind myself, so how could I mind my children?


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    #506
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Mysterypunter wrote: »
    Probably are my dear. But I cant even mind myself, so how could I mind my children?

    Would God not provide all you need? Aren't you going against his plan, not having children?


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    #507
    Mysterypunter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Mysterypunter


    Nah. Im not religious, but im not an athiest either. If I need something done I usually do it myself. If I cant, I ask for help. Just wouldnt have kids and run off if I was going bad.


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    #508
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    [...] you are saying that calling the spiritual being they believe in a dead man on a piece of wood is acceptable?
    In this forum, and in many places where the phrase "free speech" means something, yes, it's entirely acceptable. Please check out the forum charter:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054860288
    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    You are saying that isn't offensive or considerate of a fellow human beings feelings? If you do you are an absolute fool. That is complete mockery!
    People and ideas are not the same. People are not open to offensive comments, but ideas certainly are.

    If somebody attaches themselves to an idea so closely that they become personally offended when it's criticized, then they should really take a long, hard look at who's being used.


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    #509
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    You never, and still haven't, answered my questions. You responded with waffle at first and when I repeated or expanded upon them you responded by questioning my questions.
    That's not actually true, though, is it?
    You asked "And as for what the catholic church says about what "catholic" means, that has come up before, did you ever find an actual papal decree or official vatican document of what the catholic church says "catholic" means?"
    I answered "Catholic is one of the four marks of the Church set out in the Nicene Creed; it's a simple English (well, Latin originating from Greek really..) word meaning universal, or of broad scope. Used by the Roman Catholic Church to indicate it's inclusivity, oddly enough. But if you're looking for the 'official vatican document', the catechism states:
    "

    You asked "Whose faith is the Nicene creed professing then?"
    I answered "It is a profession of the Christian faith. Do you think that should make a difference to whether a Catholic should need to accept it, if the Catholic Church doesn't say a Catholic needs to?"

    You asked "How can it be a profession of faith if catholics don't actually need to profess it?"
    I answered "Because a profession of faith (or a profession of anything really) doesn't necessarily require anyone else to make it, in order for it to still be a profession of faith."

    For someone who never, and still hasn't, answered your questions, I seem to have been very busy answering your questions. How many of mine would you say you've answered?
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    You cannot be a catholic if you don't believe what a catholic is supposed to believe because that's what "catholic" is, a label for someone who believes catholic doctine. It's what makes them a catholic instead of a protestant or an anglican etc, it's what the label is for. People might not care because they are indoctrinated not to care, the RCC might not care because it would cost them to be consistent, but that doesn't change anything.
    Of course you can; to be a Catholic you need only fulfil the conditions of being Catholic set by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church doesn't need to distinguish itself from Protestantism or Anglicanism; those religions seek to distinguish themselves from Catholicism (hence the coining of the term Roman Catholicism by the Anglicans in order to distinguish their catholicism from the established Church's).
    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    The only one moving goalposts is you, except you can't even do that right.
    Right... would it be fair to say you can't provide an example of that either? And saying "you're doing it, not me" is not really a refutation of the fact that I've pointed out exactly where you've been trying to move the goalposts.


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    #510
    tirchonaill86
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭tirchonaill86


    robindch wrote: »
    In this forum, and in many places where the phrase "free speech" means something, yes, it's entirely acceptable. Please check out the forum chart



    Point 2 states that they take action against posts that are offensive and intended to inflame. This person referred to the most important symbol of what it means to be a Catholic a 'dead man made of wood hanging on the wall'. This is both highly offensive and inflammatory to people of the Catholic faith so you are an absolute dummy to make that invalid point.


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    #511
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,356 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    I sense an atheist invasion here?

    I can't invade the place I've lived in all my life.

    Listen I'm not here to spread hate. I come in peace.

    So don't post crap about 'stench of evil' then :rolleyes:

    I didn't advocate people leaving, i left that choice up to them.

    That was the approach in Germany 80 years ago, until they decided to move things up a few notches, but it is very illustrative of your thinking.

    This country is, in the large majority, a country of Catholics who don't interfere with people of other faith or lack of.

    Except they do, all the time, in our constitution, laws, education and health systems, and yes at our national broadcaster too (which used to be the subject of this thread way back when.)

    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    There are lots of people today who are suffering as we speak terminally ill or with a loved one who is. These people pray to Jesus Christ for ease from their symptoms, to be saved from dying or pain, they ask this higher power to help them

    'Dear God who made me and everything, please save me from the cancer you made, the pain you made, the death you made...'

    Yeah that's logical.

    tirchonaill86 wrote: »
    I know there is a human being behind every one of us...and maybe you experienced some trauma in your lives or it wasn't your fault that you were blocked from gods love and i mean these words in a nice sincere way. God bless. I will pray for your return.

    Maybe you experienced unusually severe childhood indoctrination, or some trauma in your life, which leads you to believe in unevidenced tales of gods and heavens? It's not your fault.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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