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Church Closures

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    #182
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    krudler wrote: »
    Why would there be a thousand Hitlers or Stalins? Hitler was a Christian anyway so all he had to do was ask for god's mercy and in he goes. God forgives everyone right? or just not the people you don't like?
    Hitler was a first rate anti-christ.
    If people were immortal ... power-hungry and evil people would take over the World ... and nobody could stop them ... as they wouldn't die and couldn't be killed, no matter what evil they got up to.
    Death, unfortunately, is a necessary evil - in a Fallen World ... just as God told Adam and Eve before they Fell.


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    #183
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    krudler wrote: »
    And if his plan wasn't for you to get home safe? you're exercising your free will to undo his plan of having you run over.
    His plan is that everyone should be safe and Saved ... and it would be abusing my free will to undo His plan if I became an 'amber gambler ... or a 'red menace'.:)


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    #184
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    EoghanIRL wrote: »
    What's the difference between the god you worship and the the Islamic god Allah?
    Different beliefs for the same god?
    I mean you are supposed to respect the beliefs of others but in doing so aren't you undermining your own beliefs . Why respect the beliefs of others when they are contrary to your beliefs.
    Tolerance and respect costs nothing ... and allows dialogue ... where you can present your ideas ... and I can present mine.
    EoghanIRL wrote: »
    It seems as if you are making up the rules as you go along .
    How so?
    EoghanIRL wrote: »
    His ? Why are you presuming god is male . Did you see it in a painting ?
    Because He has told us He is male.

    If God was female she'd be a goddess.:)


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    #185
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    No need. The irrational belief in gods already gave us Hitler and Stalin (Hitler was a committed catlick all his life, and Stalin spent most of his youth, and after 1941 until he died, as a committed orthodox), and many more terrors besides. Ever hear of a chappie called Torquemada, or how about Chinggis Khan, or even the Triple Alliance. There are thousands of evil scattered throughout history created by religion, and the non-religious evils are only trotting after them.

    You cannot deny this. Oh, wait, you've spent your whole boards career denying reality, denying one more facet of it will be no problem to you. Ah well, reality will still exist no matter how blue in the face you get thinking it doesn't exist.
    I'll let Wikipedia do the 'heavy lifting' on this one.
    Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Hitler's and Stalins views on religion:-
    Quote :-
    "The Religious views of Adolf Hitler were shaped by his upbringing at the hands of his anti-clerical, sceptic father and devout Catholic mother. Baptized as an infant and confirmed at the age of fifteen, he ceased attending Mass and participating in the sacraments in later life.[1] In adulthood, he became disdainful of Christianity but in power was prepared to delay clashes with the churches out of political considerations.[2] Hitler's architect Albert Speer believed he had "no real attachment" to Catholicism, but that he had never formally left the Church. Unlike his comrade Joseph Goebbels, Hitler was not excommunicated[3] prior to his suicide. The biographer John Toland noted Hitler's anticlericalism, but considered him still in "good standing" with the Church by 1941, while historians such as Ian Kershaw, Joachim Fest and Alan Bullock agree that Hitler was anti-Christian - a view evidenced by sources such as the Goebbels Diaries, the memoirs of Speer, and the transcripts edited by Martin Bormann contained within Hitler's Table Talk.[4] Goebbels wrote in 1941 that Hitler "hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity."[5] Many historians have come to the conclusion that Hitler's long term aim was the eradication of Christianity in Germany,[6] while others maintain that there is insufficient evidence for such a plan.[7]

    Hitler's public relationship to religion has been characterised as one of opportunistic pragmatism.[8] His regime did not publicly advocate for state atheism, but it did seek to reduce the influence of Christianity on society. Hitler himself was reluctant of public attacks on the Church for political reasons, despite the urgings of Nazis like Bormann. Although he was sceptical of religion,[9][10] he did not present himself to the public as an atheist, and spoke of belief in an "almighty creator".[11][12] In private he could be ambiguous.[13][14] Evans wrote that Hitler repeatedly stated that Nazism was a secular ideology founded on science, which in the long run could not "co-exist with religion".[15] Alan Bullock wrote that even though Hitler frequently employed the language of "divine providence" in defence of his own myth, he ultimately shared with the Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, a materialist outlook, "based on the nineteenth century rationalists' certainty that the progress of science would destroy all myths and had already proved Christian doctrine to be an absurdity"

    The last summary in red of Hitler's and Stalin's religious outlook looks remarkably like some of the pronouncements of secularists and materialists today.:)


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    #186
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    gctest50 wrote: »
    seems the god you just happen to believe in - out of historys endless parade of them

    is a sexist racist murderous cnut
    Aw ... and He speaks so highly of you ... as one of His precious, priceless children.


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    #187
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    kylith wrote: »
    Yet you're happy to worship a being that causes babies to die of horrific diseases because of something done by someone else, thousands of years ago?
    The alternative isn't immortality, it's small children not dying of the malaria and AIDS that this God created and living normal lives.
    God causes nobody to die ... but He is not prepared to remove death (that was caused by the Fall) from a Fallen World ... because immortality in such a World would literally cause Hell on Earth.
    As we're not immortal, we all die somewhere between zero days and 140 years after conception.


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    #188
    Skrynesaver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭Skrynesaver


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJH9q15s2cc


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    #189
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    krudler wrote: »
    It's mental really, like if someone gets sick with a life threatening disease. That's gods plan right? and if the doctor does all they can to save them, that's also gods plan? and if the person makes it, gods plan, if they don't, gods plan. Ergo god will make people suffer when he could just kill them instantly, making him a sadistic twat, or make people suffer then get better, also making him a sadistic twat for making them ill in the first place.
    Like I have said, God doesn't do any of these things ... He simply allows the laws of the post-fall universe to operate ... which is what He told Adam and Eve He would do, if they sided with Satan ... and Fell.


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    #190
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Mark Hamill wrote: »
    False dichotomy aside (AIDS babies versus platoons of Hitlers, really?), what difference would it make how many Hitlers or Stalins there were if everyone was immortal?
    There would be continuous, never ending war on everybody ... a physical Hell on Earth.


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    #191
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    J C wrote: »
    There would be continuous, never ending war on everybody ... a physical Hell on Earth.

    Why would there be war? Would people not get along like they do now?


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    #192
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    lazygal wrote: »
    Why would there be war? Would people not get along like they do now?
    We don't all get along now ... various evils are committed ... but if manifest evil were to become physically immortal, nothing could stop it ... and all of the terrible the wars and evils of history would seem like picnics, in comparison.


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    #193
    branie2
    Registered Users Posts: 10,298 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    They could be marked as heritage sights


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    #194
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    J C wrote: »
    God causes nobody to die ... but He is not prepared to remove death (that was caused by the Fall) from a Fallen World ... because immortality in such a World would literally cause Hell on Earth.
    As we're not immortal, we all die somewhere between zero days and 140 years after conception.
    Of course he causes people to die, he causes everyone to die. If we were to believe you he invented the concept. Who makes sure that there's famine in Africa if not God? Who causes people to get diseases if not God? Who capsizes boats, or starts house fires, or sets bears on children if not God?

    J C wrote: »
    Hitler was a first rate anti-christ.
    If people were immortal ... power-hungry and evil people would take over the World ... and nobody could stop them ... as they wouldn't die and couldn't be killed, no matter what evil they got up to.
    Death, unfortunately, is a necessary evil - in a Fallen World ... just as God told Adam and Eve before they Fell.

    But all the good people would be immortal too and the evil people would never be able to kill them, and they would be able to catch and incarcerate the Hitlers of the world.


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    #195
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    kylith wrote: »
    Of course he causes people to die, he causes everyone to die. If we were to believe you he invented the concept. Who makes sure that there's famine in Africa if not God? Who causes people to get diseases if not God? Who capsizes boats, or starts house fires, or sets bears on children if not God?
    Human inhumanity ... and natural forces cause these things.

    kylith wrote: »
    But all the good people would be immortal too and the evil people would never be able to kill them, and they would be able to catch and incarcerate the Hitlers of the world.
    Not so ... you would simply have eternal struggles and wars between the 'good' and the 'evil' behaving people.
    You are correct that the the evil people would never be able to kill the good people ... they'd simply torture them forever.


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    #196
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Are natural forces not God's forces? Does he not command nature?


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    #197
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    lazygal wrote: »
    Are natural forces not God's forces? Does he not command nature?
    He Created nature and it runs in accordance with His Created physical laws.


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    #198
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    J C wrote: »

    The last summary in red of Hitler's and Stalin's religious outlook looks remarkably like some of the pronouncements of secularists and materialists today.:)

    You appear to be more accustomed to dealing with primary school children with all of this patronising colour scheming. It doesn't make any of your post any more convincing. And if you think that wikipedia is some kind of authority on this kind of topic then you are even more delusional that you already were. Both Hitler and Stalin were desists all of their lives but dealt with religious organisations like the church as competitors for power.


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    #199
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    J C wrote: »
    Aw ... and He speaks so highly of you ... as one of His precious, priceless children.

    I suppose you have a private phone line to his desk then ... :rolleyes:


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    #200
    Piliger
    Registered Users Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    branie2 wrote: »
    They could be marked as heritage sights

    So you would leave them empty and unused, except for the odd tourist to visit and view ?


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    #201
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    J C wrote: »
    He Created nature and it runs in accordance with His Created physical laws.

    So why would natural forces cause suffering and misery? Can God not stop that if he loves us so very much?


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    #202
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Piliger wrote: »
    I suppose you have a private phone line to his desk then ... :rolleyes:
    Yes.


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    #203
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    lazygal wrote: »
    So why would natural forces cause suffering and misery? Can God not stop that if he loves us so very much?
    Not in this Fallen World ... but at it's end, at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will put an end to death.


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    #204
    Gordon
    Registered Users Posts: 35,524 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    J C wrote: »
    Not in this Fallen World ... but at it's end, at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ will put an end to death.
    But first he'll murder everyone that's not his mate, then he won't murder anyone else.


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    #205
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    First of all the fairytale-ists should pay the money they owe the state for raping and abusing our children. I'd like the Cardinal to bring one of those lotto cheques up to the Dail and present it personally to Enda live on TV.

    After that they can sell their empty churches and spend it on hookers and coke for all I care.


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    #206
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Gordon wrote: »
    But first he'll murder everyone that's not his mate, then he won't murder anyone else.
    He will wipe out the anti-christ and his hordes ... and he will judge the un-Saved ... in accordance with their wishes, because they have chosen His justice, rather than His mercy.


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    #207
    Gordon
    Registered Users Posts: 35,524 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    J C wrote: »
    He will wipe out the anti-christ and his hordes ... and he will judge the un-Saved ... in accordance with their wishes, because they have chosen His justice, rather than His mercy.
    The next christ will murder everyone that is his enemy. Not a very nice way of doing business if you ask me, I've always thought murder wasn't cool. I think some religions even think badly of murder, could have sworn Christianity did too, but maybe it's ok if it's just one guy murdering people.


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    #208
    eyescreamcone
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭eyescreamcone


    J C wrote: »
    He will wipe out the anti-christ and his hordes ... and he will judge the un-Saved ... in accordance with their wishes, because they have chosen His justice, rather than His mercy.

    ...and the dish ran away with the spoon!!


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    #209
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    eyescreamcone wrote: »
    First of all the fairytale-ists should pay the money they owe the state for raping and abusing our children.
    The appropriate penalty for such behaviour is jail and not a fine.
    ... and the minority priests who have done such heinous acts are spending time behind bars.


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    #210
    Gordon
    Registered Users Posts: 35,524 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    I wonder if Christ 2.0 will murder all of those many terrible priests.


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    #211
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Gordon wrote: »
    The next christ will murder everyone that is his enemy. Not a very nice way of doing business if you ask me, I've always thought murder wasn't cool. I think some religions even think badly of murder, could have sworn Christianity did too, but maybe it's ok if it's just one guy murdering people.
    It isn't murder to kill in a just war.


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