Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Waterford Minors nearly paid the price today and are lucky to be in a replay as the last effort by Limerick went wide. They should have known how dangerous this Limerick team are as they defeated Tipp in the dying minutes of that game. The replay is going to be very dangerous as Limerick will feel they have the measure of this team. Its disapointing that they did not complete the job today, they are a very talented bunch but as with the Cork game they tend to drift in and out of the game. Great with Cork they came on strong in the second half but in the dying minutes of this game it was almost total collapse for the last five minutes. I'm sure the large Limerick support must have been intimidating so at least the next day that element wont be there although Limerick will have a big following after wining the senior game. Points went a begging again today as they tried to work in for goal when one more point would have been enough.

doz wrote: »

Is Thurles confirmed, hope to God it's not. Why on earth play a game that will attract a crowd if 5K tops in a 50k stadium, in addition to the fact that it is far closer for Limerick fans to travel to? Complete waste, Pairc Ui Rinn would have been an ideal venue.

A curtain raiser to the senior Q finals would be ideal, but too close I guess for the loser regarding the minor Q final

doz wrote: »

Is Thurles confirmed, hope to God it's not. Why on earth play a game that will attract a crowd if 5K tops in a 50k stadium, in addition to the fact that it is far closer for Limerick fans to travel to? Complete waste, Pairc Ui Rinn would have been an ideal venue.

yeah I saw a number of people saying on twitter it's confirmed for thurles on the 23rd

Cake Man wrote: »

Yeah it's frustrating alright. There would be much better atmosphere if it were on in Walsh park or Dungarvan. I think the way they're looking at it though is that yes, Limerick did have home advantage but it was decided at the start of the year to have the Munster final in Limerick anyway and it just happend that Limerick minors made it there and so the match is to remain at a neutral venue. Still, it's frustrating.

The reality is that the rule of fair play is not being applied here. Home advantage v no home advantage. My understanding was that the Munster Final was played in Limerick due to a home and away arrangement with Cork.

If that was the case, then Waterford should not have to be at less of an advantage at minor level in a replay, due to a cosy home and away arrangement between 2 counties at senior level for the Munster Final.

Had Waterford been playing Limerick in the senior Munster Final, would it still have been held in the Gaelic Grounds?

On another note, I guess all club minor games are off on Wednesday (due to it being only 6 days before a Munster Final). Anyone hear anything yet?

I have a couple of points to make re the minor performance yesterday, whilst it is a wonderfull thing to see a minor team from waerford grace an occasion like a munster final and feel that not only did they belong there, but bring artistry and imagination and loads of skill, but they also brought[which was unusual for a waterford side] a certain amount of arrogance which allowed Limerick back into the game.
Limerick were chasing the game from the very first minute, all their scores were hard earned and hard fought, but so be it, they got on with it and should have won, Waterford however decided that it was pointless taking a simple score when you could keep the score board ticking over, but you should charge up the middle sell two dummy passes hit a hail mary or go for goal from the '40 which would make you a star if it went in but however if it went wide it did not really matter as we are clearly better than this lot.
We have done this Twice already this year, we should have closed the game down V Tipp the first night, but we swanked abit in the second half, going for balls half harted as we were clearly better hurlers,However on the same night we did not have the right team on the field, and we did it again yesterday.
Honourable mentions have to go to shane bennett, Dj foran, and patrick curran who worked hard through out.
I thought our keeper also did very well, puckouts were 100% better and made a very vital save in the second half, bravely putting his body in front of a limerick forward bearing down on him at pace.
Austin gleeson is one of the finest minor hurlers i have ever seen at this level, but he has to learn two things, he will get hit[its not tennis] and he will have to not let it affect his game, once v tipp five min prior to half time he got a late shot from the centre forward, and it put him out of that game for along time, same thing happened on the stroke of half time yesterday and again it was clearly on his mind in the second half, as he was no way the same player as he was in the first, also he has the delivery to hurt anyone, why does he feel the need to constantly expose his full back line by leaving massive holes once he has carried balls on the opposing half forward line, play breaks down and we are caught on the counter, happen twice yeaterday and the second time resulted in a free close to goal which allowed limerick to build on an already improving performance.
Two corner backs decision making has to improve, they have to learn to either get tight at correct time, or stand off made it too easy for a ref mad to appease the home crowd yesterday by diving in when not necessary, has to be said not helped by holes in front of them.
Overall has to be said this team can play with breathtaking beauty, but has to learn to kill teams off and close games out, this display smacked of arrogance and a little of that can be a great thing, but alot causes teams who could be great to be less than mediocre.

doz wrote: »

I think it's grossly unfair to say the minors were showboating. Think it was more a case of overconfidence and a level of naivety in not killing the game off. As I alluded to previously I don't think the ref did them any favours in terms of allowing limerick players overcarry which actually led to both goals. They will have learned a harsh lesson from the game and I would be extremely disappointed if they did not win the replay.

Disagree was at the game as some of the pop passes they were trying with 10 mins to go instead of poping it over the bar were eye of a needle stuff.. gleeson run up the field twice lifting it over fellas heads was incredibly self indulgent and it looked to me at the end that the cohesion and passing they had a times went out the window as lads wanted to be heros.. i love a bit of cockiness and its great to see finally from a waterford group but they were a 8/10 point better team than limerick but yet nearly lost it.. The quietness from the limerick crowd which was substantial at 15 mins to go was deafening.. All you could hear was murmurs from them going 'jes they are some minor team' they couldnt believe their luck that they got back in it... No in a replay you are leaving it to chance again.. Just finish the game off.

Kearney who had a fine game around the middle is prime example of this his run and shot for goal about 30 yards out when a simple point would have killed limericks moment was ridiculous..

If they learn from it i can see them winning an all ireland no problem cause they are all fantastic hurlers but this is 4 games now they've played and they've only won 1 in normal time when they were clearly better than the opposition on each occasion.. When will the penny drop?..

That bennett curran combo if they manage to keep it up looks frightening for years to come.. They have some understanding. the pass from bennett to curran for the penalty was majestic.. He made a difficult flick off the wrist so easy to curran when he could have waited and sucked in the full back.. likewise curran pass for bennetts goal what a ball... but bennett got greedy second half and wanted to put more on the board then give it off..

Brad1234 wrote: »

Disagree was at the game as some of the pop passes they were trying with 10 mins to go instead of poping it over the bar were eye of a needle stuff.. gleeson run up the field twice lifting it over fellas heads was incredibly self indulgent and it looked to me at the end that the cohesion and passing they had a times went out the window as lads wanted to be heros.. i love a bit of cockiness and its great to see finally from a waterford group but they were a 8/10 point better team than limerick but yet nearly lost it.. The quietness from the limerick crowd which was substantial at 15 mins to go was deafening.. All you could hear was murmurs from them going 'jes they are some minor team' they couldnt believe their luck that they got back in it... No in a replay you are leaving it to chance again.. Just finish the game off.

Kearney who had a fine game around the middle is prime example of this his run and shot for goal about 30 yards out when a simple point would have killed limericks moment was ridiculous..

If they learn from it i can see them winning an all ireland no problem cause they are all fantastic hurlers but this is 4 games now they've played and they've only won 1 in normal time when they were clearly better than the opposition on each occasion.. When will the penny drop?..

That bennett curran combo if they manage to keep it up looks frightening for years to come.. They have some understanding. the pass from bennett to curran for the penalty was majestic.. He made a difficult flick off the wrist so easy to curran when he could have waited and sucked in the full back.. likewise curran pass for bennetts goal what a ball... but bennett got greedy second half and wanted to put more on the board then give it off..

Spot on. Rest of ye need to stop looking at it with rose tinted glasses just cause they are our own

Some thoughts on this weekend’s games.


As regards the game against Kilkenny, while Waterford (especially the defence and midfield) put in a great effort, I thought that, apart from the first and last fifteen minutes of normal time, Kilkenny were the better team and could have won the game comfortably with better shooting. For me, there were three main problems with the Waterford performance – too many execution errors, inexperience (understandable in a team with a lot of young players) and poor attacking tactics. As regards the first of these, I counted 44 errors (excluding missed shots) by Waterford players up to half-time in extra time (this was when my recording of the game stopped – I had not allowed for extra time in both games and the full game is not available on the TV3 Player). These mainly involved attempted passes and puckouts going astray or being intercepted, but also included incidences of poor ball control and taking of bad options. This is far too high an error count against opposition of this quality.


I found it hard to fathom Waterford’s attacking tactics. They repeated the Tipperary error of playing too many high balls into the Kilkenny defence where the Waterford forwards were unable to compete. I think too much blame is being placed on the forwards when the real problem was the quality of incoming supply. Waterford did very well in working the ball out of defence to a free man in midfield, and then repeatedly spoiled it with poor deliveries into the forwards. I have said this before, but the emphasis should have been on low diagonal ball into space rather than high balls delivered to target recipients who invariably had at least one Kilkenny defender up their backsides. We needed to stretch the Kilkenny defenders, and especially the older players (who make up four of the six) with a view to tiring them out.


I also could not understand the ploy of leaving Seamus Prendergast on his own in the full forward line. One of the runners (Brian O’Sullivan or Jamie Barron) should have been assigned to stand with him at all times in order to move onto breaking balls or taking passes when Seamus got possession. Having Seamus chasing balls played into the corner was abolutely ridiculous. I am still trying to figure out what role Jamie Barron was expected to play, but whatever it was, it didn’t seem to be working out. We never exploited his pace and ability to run at defenders.


While Michael Ryan deserves great credit for the spirit he has infused into the team, I have great doubts about his team selections and placements and the tactics being employed, and would suggest that this is an aspect of his backup team that requires strengthening (assuming that he is reappointed as manager).


As regards the minor match yesterday, this was a game which Waterford simply threw away, and they are extremely lucky to have got a second chance at the end. I agree entirely with Horseboxhead’s comments on the game, and indeed I had already use the word arrogance in my post-match discussions of the game. When Waterford went eight points up they tried to bury Limerick with further goals rather than tack on simple points which would have put them out of sight. Patrick Curran had a simple tap-over point availabe in front of goal, but opted instead for a pass to the unmarked Stephen Bennett. If he had got it it would undoubtedly have produced a goal, but the pass was overcooked and went over Bennett’s head. Minutes later Mikey Kearney made a great run through the middle but instead of tapping the ball over the bar, he went for a blaster which whizzed outside the right-hand post. If either Curran or Kearney had taken the simple option, Waterford would be Munster champions today.


I also agree with Horseboxhead’s comments on Austin Gleeson. He is a lovely hurler and scored three great points yesterday, but I have reservations about his physicality and ability to stand up to the hits which come with the transition to senior intercounty hurling. And like his clubmate Pat McGrath (Ken’s father) he has a tendency to go on pointless solo runs which leave the other defenders vulnerable if possession is lost. A simple hand pass to a supporting colleague (a la Brick Walsh) is likely to be at least as effective and less risky.


I also have concerns with Waterford’s decision-making on the sideline. It was clear from the outset that – as in the Cork game – Adam Farrell was not at the races and he should have been substituted long before he was (especially given the quality of the Waterford subs). Tom Devine was also in serious trouble against Limerick’s Cian Lynch and again the selectors were amiss in not making an earlier switch between him and Shane Bennett. Lynch had hit four points before the switch and failed to score again afterwards.


As in the Cork game, referee Fergal Horgan did Waterford no favours. Early in the game he pulled two Waterford players very dubiously for overcarrying but when Limerick started running at the Waterford defence late in the game looking for goals there were several clear cases of overcarrying that went unpunished. Limerick’s full forward scored 1-9 from frees whereas Patrick Curran only got two frees to take. While Limerick did put a lot of pressure on the Waterford full back line, they also got what appeared to me to be some very handy frees which kept them in the game. Hopefully we will get someone else for the replay.


All that said we should emphasise that Waterford played some lovely hurling in the course of the game, and some of the their point taking – especially in the first half – was sublime. Nine Waterford players in all scored from play compared with just four for Limerick (one of them a sub). If we can keep tabs on their wing forwards (seven points from play) and cut down on the fouling we should be able to win the replay. I am a bit concerned that Tom Devine is not playing nearly as well as he did last year, or for Dungarvan Colleges this year. It is unlikely, but part of the problem could be that he is currently playing on the right side of the field whereas he had played all his hurling previously on the left. Playing behind a weak link (Farrell) may also not be helping him. For the replay I would start Shane Bennett on the right and Devine on the left, with Cormac Curran in midfield (where he played really well for Dungarvan Colleges), Mikey Kearney at right wing forward and Conor Gleeson in the right corner.

Something puzzling me and I'm wondering if anyoen can help:

According to the GAA website the Munster Minor runners-up are playing Antrim in one QF with Galway playing Laois in the other. This is contrary to what I and I think moast of us thought i.e.t hat Laois were palying Antrim with the winners playing the Munster Champions in the SF.

In 2010, we lost the Munster Final to Clare and played Galway in the QF.
In 2011, we lost the Munster Final to Clare and played Leinster runners-up (Kilkenny) in the QF.
iN 2012, Tipp beat Clare in the Munster Final. I am pretty certain that Clare beat Antrim in the QF before losing to Dublin in the SF. Tipp beat Galway in the other SF so it definitely wasn't Clare v Galway

So surely if the rota is to be applied the Munster runners-up this year should be playing Galway in the QF.

I'm looking at it from the point of view of us winning Munster. With all due respect to Antrim and Laois, I'd rather face one of them in the SF than Galway. Surely it should be Antrim v Laois in the QF with the winners playing the munster champions but that's not what gaa.ie says.

fizzyboy wrote: »

Something puzzling me and I'm wondering if anyoen can help:

According to the GAA website the Munster Minor runners-up are playing Antrim in one QF with Galway playing Laois in the other. This is contrary to what I and I think moast of us thought i.e.t hat Laois were palying Antrim with the winners playing the Munster Champions in the SF.

In 2010, we lost the Munster Final to Clare and played Galway in the QF.
In 2011, we lost the Munster Final to Clare and played Leinster runners-up (Kilkenny) in the QF.
iN 2012, Tipp beat Clare in the Munster Final. I am pretty certain that Clare beat Antrim in the QF before losing to Dublin in the SF. Tipp beat Galway in the other SF so it definitely wasn't Clare v Galway

So surely if the rota is to be applied the Munster runners-up this year should be playing Galway in the QF.

I'm looking at it from the point of view of us winning Munster. With all due respect to Antrim and Laois, I'd rather face one of them in the SF than Galway. Surely it should be Antrim v Laois in the QF with the winners playing the munster champions but that's not what gaa.ie says.

Did we not play Dublin one of the above years? As I remember it the game was changed to suit Dublin as their seniors were playing in Croker the same day

We played Dublin in the SF in 2011 after beating Kilkenny in the QF. Dublin were Leinster champions that year so we couldn't have plaed the munster champions (Clare). Galway beat Clare in the semi aet (it held up our senior semi with KK) and went on to beat Dublin in the final. And yes our semi with Dublin was changed as their seniors were playing Tipp in the SF the same day (as they were leinster minor champions they should have played the same day as the senior sf between ourselves and KK (Leinster champions).

Mountainlad wrote: »

I reckon the team lineup will be similar to this:

1. Darren Duggan
2. Colin Walsh
3. Kieran Power
4. Shane McNulty
5. Stephen O'Keefe
6. Darragh Fives
7. Ray Barry
8. Paudie Prendergast
9. Stephen Roche
10. Donie Breathnach
11. Eamon Murphy
12. Jake Dillon
13. Colin Dunford
14. Cormac Heffernan
15. Jamie Barron

You could see several positional switches but factoring in injuries that looks about right to me. Colin Dunford is corner forward as while I know he's playing again not sure is he 100% fit. Jake Dillon could switch with Heffernan if they needed a more ball winning half forward line. All in all it looks pretty strong.

What's the story with Tadhg Bourke? If fit, he would surely be very close to starting?