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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]
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Thank you for proving my point so cogently.Ah MYOB responding with your usual tactfulness and grace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but you seem to be wilfully ignoring the serious suggestions which Iwannahurl & Monument have proposed to reduce traffic congestion in the Galway urban area. Namely improved cycling infrastructure, increased road-pricing measures in the town centre and, perhaps most importantly, a severe crackdown on motorists wilfully breaking the law wilfully by parking illegally & speeding?antoobrien wrote: »
There is no way for traffic to avoid the center of town.
Again, giving specific reference to the map that anto posted, could you please explain how for example someone who has to get from, for example, Barna to Oranmore would be helped by "road pricing measures" (I assume you mean a London style congestion charge) and a "severe crackdown on motorists?" And how such would be SUPERIOR to the bypass?0 -
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antoobrien wrote: »I'm going to answer that BS with a map:
There is no way for traffic to avoid the center of town.
And I can call "BS" with an image from Street View, the N6 is not a "centre of town" type of setting:
Edit: Also not town or city centre like:
A problem in general for Ireland is doing things halfarsed and then you have people claiming the things don't work.
Park and ride in Galway as is currently being attempted is nothing like the Dutch example I gave.
The cycle tracks in Galway meanwhile are some of the worst in the country. The network seems to be overall poorer than in Dublin....or suggesting that something which is already being trialled is, erm, trialled. They are not serious suggestions, they are not even more than vague references....
Wow! You're still making out that the half-arsed attempt at P&R in Galway is anywhere near like the system of P&R that I've pointed to.
The P&R operator is complaining that others were supposed to be doing the marketing, it's just one route and it's been trialled at a time of year everybody on here agrees that congestion isn't that big of a problem! They also use coaches and depart from the coach station rather the square!!!
Compare that to elsewhere, such as in the Netherlands where they put in a network of P&R routes and locations, where the city centre has bus priority, minimum car access and little on-street parking. Overall quite a different system!antoobrien wrote: »BS.
It runs through the main shopping and residential areas east of the river - which existed before the road was planned. Any development that has happened around it is infill development, which if you listen to some people is a good thing, but apparently only when it happens in Dublin.
Reading a map for knowledge is not doing your credibility any good.
It's not "bs".
The N6 inside Galway City is not a city centre type setting and it's outright daftness to claim otherwise.
Give the map reading nonsense a rest, I've likely spent more time in Galway than some of your supporters on here.Pappa Charlie wrote: »What ever happened with the glen of the downes or the hill of Tara road projects did they cause envoirnmental devastation as predicted?
The M3 has been going great with compensation payments for low traffic levels! :rolleyes:Estimations based on known population, known number of students in the 3rd level institutions, etc. Just because its a very big number for you to try and argue around doesn't mean its not valid.
I'm making an informed estimation, possible an underestimation. You're not providing any examples at all at this stage.
You plucked the figure out of nowhere just like David Drumm plucked the Anglo figure out of his ass.
Or would you care to give a break down of your figure and how that relates to the student population and 30% of traffic....except that we've had about that much of a traffic drop nationally due to the recession already.
I can't see why a 10% national reduction stop the summer drop also being ~10%.antoobrien wrote: »The figures are based on the numbers of students attending and staff working in GMIT & NUI Galway that are basically off for the summer. The numbers of students are well known to be approx 10k in GMIT & 15k in NUI Galway. The predilection for holidays during the July is also well known - hence it being called part of the "high season."
And you're subtracting the students and staff that walk / take the bus / cycle? There's no need for modal change there and that's what we were talking about -- the claim of 30%+ needed for modal change to have an effect.
Any your 100% figure is all traffic in Galway and not the city population?
And you're adding in the tourist traffic?
All honest questions -- how you treat them is as usual up to you.Carawaystick wrote: »It's probably worth reminding that the nta granted a bus operator a license to run a bus service in Galway at half the frequency the operator applied for.
I think it was a 15 min headway service applied for and the nta decided that a half hourly service would serve the people of Galway better
Most successful park and ride systems I've looked at run at 10min on peak and 15mins off peak. That's on top of the other problems pointed out above.Chris_5339762 wrote: »Its not just about bypassing the city. Its about making the lives of everyone in the city easier and opening the city up for business.
Ireland and the UK don't do bypasses very well -- elsewhere in Europe they have used bypass openings to radically improve the city inside of them, but we can't handle that thinking.Chris_5339762 wrote: »That is worth a small strip of land around Galway no questions asked.
This is back to the good old days of the boom talk again... something like:It will be good, there's no way it will go wrong, no need to ask question. Forget about the debate that's going on. Go hang your self if you think the bypass should not go ahead.If you want to compare to another university town, taking an extremely poor example because it appears to be maybe the only one that supports your argument doesn't actually support your argument. Somewhere with modern universities as opposed to medieval ones would be a starter.
Given the road network of Galway, his example does not seem to be that poor of an example.0 -
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And I can call "BS" with an image from Street View, the N6 is not a "centre of town" type of setting:
Link broken, but why do I suspect you've chosen the DC around Briarhill rather than, say, the roundabout at the shopping centre?Wow! You're still making out that the half-arsed attempt at P&R in Galway is anywhere near like the system of P&R that I've pointed to.
Wow! You're still completely refusing to move on from comparisons to a city that doesn't even vaguely resemble Galway.
A P&R has been provided that should, be suitable for most non-passing traffic coming from one half of the city. It has been an abject failure. Blaming this on parking, which anyone who actually drives in Galway knows is not particularly easy or plentiful, is pathetic.The N6 inside Galway City is not a city centre type setting and it's outright daftness to claim otherwise.
Except for the major issue that, at a critical point of the alleged current "bypass", it is.You plucked the figure out of nowhere just like David Drumm plucked the Anglo figure out of his ass.
It was an educated estimate. Anto then provided figures that suggest that, if anything, its on the low side.I can't see why a 10% national reduction stop the summer drop also being ~10%.
I despair... and then you complain about actual decent estimates! Please, go learn some basic maths.And you're subtracting the students and staff that walk / take the bus / cycle? There's no need for modal change there and that's what we were talking about -- the claim of 30%+ needed for modal change to have an effect.
Any your 100% figure is all traffic in Galway and not the city population?
And you're adding in the tourist traffic?
All honest questions -- how you treat them is as usual up to you.
And your acting as if the students are the sole cause of the summer drop??
You still haven't come up with an example for us that's actually valid, I see.
As always ends up being the case, I don't even see the point of engaging with you.0 -
But you cannot deny that East-West traffic is going unnecessarily through an urban setting. Perhaps not "centre of town" in all cases, but definitely dense-ish urban at minimum. To highlight the inadequacy of the current road for interurban travel, I point you to a post of Iwannahurls' some time back, complaining about motorists travelling 80-100kph on this part of the N6 because of a single housing estate access..And I can call "BS" with an image from Street View, the N6 is not a "centre of town" type of setting:So which is it? Either the existing roads are suitable for interurban East-West traffic, or they - as Iwannahurl claimed - eseentially are not.
For the three of you, (Iwannahurl, TINA1984, monument) the solution is - as it always is - screw the motorist.- An iron-fist crackdown on "speeding" motorists etc.
- Also the same for illegal parking.
- A reduction in city centre parking.
- Increased parking charges.
- Take large amounts of road space away from motorists for bus lanes, cycle lanes etc.
With specific reference to the black route in antoobriens map (Barna - Oranmore) show us how someone who has to drive thar route benefits from your suggestions above, particularly given that the central problem (the bulk of the route being effectively on city streets) is not dealt with.
And in an either-or scenario how is this SUPERIOR to having a bypass?
At best, you are trying to solve one problem and labouring under the illusion that your preferred solutions to THAT problem, are solutions to another totally different problem. AT BEST.
Indeed. And I suspect it is the desire of certain posters to stick it to the motorist that is the guiding principle here.where the city centre has bus priority, minimum car access and little on-street parking. Overall quite a different system!
Perhaps. But it's also outright daft to claim that it is an appropriate route for interurban East-West traffic that has no business in the City.The N6 inside Galway City is not a city centre type setting and it's outright daftness to claim otherwise.
But. But. but it was going to demolish the hill of Tara or something. and seriously impair a site of UNESCO World Heritage importance and damage tourism and cause general HELL!! The same weapom I might add that is currently being used against the people of Slane.The M3 has been going great with compensation payments for low traffic levels! :rolleyes:
But it was BS. And people are suffering because the laws are so messed up as to allow serial objectors to road projects to make trouble so easily. As they did in Slane and it seems have moved on to Galway, and the N22.
Tourist traffic ... damndest thing, when I was younger I often used to go to Salthill for a day or so. Sometimes by bus, sometimes by car. The place has a seaside promenade, amusement park and amusement/swimming pool and some cheap casinos. All in all, a worthwhile place to visit. It strikes me that the bypass, having a little bit of off-label use, would be great because visitors to Salthill arriving by road (which most would) have access to a route that uses less city streets, avoids University College Hospital (where the current N6 ends).And you're adding in the tourist traffic?
Interesting. But what does that have to do with East-West traffic? (Which, remember, is the raison d'ètre for the bypass)Most successful park and ride systems I've looked at run at 10min on peak and 15mins off peak. That's on top of the other problems pointed out above.
If Peter Sweetman and Save Newgrange etc. did decide to go hang themselves, the rest of us would be a lot better off.This is back to the good old days of the boom talk again... something like:It will be good, there's no way it will go wrong, no need to ask question. Forget about the debate that's going on. Go hang your self if you think the bypass should not go ahead.0 -
Link broken, but why do I suspect you've chosen the DC around Briarhill rather than, say, the roundabout at the shopping centre?
To me, none of it is town or city centre like.
None of it draws images of the centre of Galway or the general meaning of a city or town centre.Wow! You're still completely refusing to move on from comparisons to a city that doesn't even vaguely resemble Galway.
A P&R has been provided that should, be suitable for most non-passing traffic coming from one half of the city. It has been an abject failure. Blaming this on parking, which anyone who actually drives in Galway knows is not particularly easy or plentiful, is pathetic.
It's not about the first city I used as an example, it's not about any one city or example. It's about a host of issue which are not right, as I said in my last post, there's more than one issue:- cost is not right*
- lower frequency
- illigal parking is rampent (across Ireland)
- it uses coaches rather than buses
- issues with marketing
- launched when congestion isn't as much of a problem
- not a system of P&R, just one
- no city centre changes
- not using the central bus stops for departures
- lack of bus priority with congested city centre streets and approaches
* One of the key things is price and with the local council run P&R in the Netherlands the price is kept low (for example, in Den Bosch, it's €2 return / free parking) and the UK seems to have the same idea (£2 return / free parking).
It has a fare bit going against it -- good luck to them.Except for the major issue that, at a critical point of the alleged current "bypass", it is.
As I said the last two times I put any name on it:- inner bypass / ring road / whatever
- inner bypass / distributor road / whatever you're having your self
I don't really care what name you put on it or what you want to see it as or call it.I despair... and then you complain about actual decent estimates! Please, go learn some basic maths.
See when you have: X -10% = Y
You subtract 10% from X, but you can then subtract 10% from Y.And your acting as if the students are the sole cause of the summer drop??
You still haven't come up with an example for us that's actually valid, I see.
As always ends up being the case, I don't even see the point of engaging with you.
You're giving up when you had no breakdown and his breakdown was unclear or incomplete or both. And you have a problem with me asking questions.
So, yeah, it seems this is looking more and more David Drumm-like.0 -
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Frank Black wrote: »From the above - human health/public safety won't come into it - so it will come down to demonstrating that that project is of 'overriding public interest'.
Like I say - for a city of just 80,000, how will this be achieved?
Little things like this
That is a picture of 3 ambulances caught in traffic at about 5.30 last night.
There were no accidents, roadworks or anything bar the weather to blame, but every Eastbound road out of Galway save Wellpark Rd was backed up to the next set of lights/roundbaout/junction.0 -
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