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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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    #932
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    monument wrote: »
    Amazing nobody has replied to this.

    Nobody has replied because it's typical garbage of those who don't know anything about Galway getting their "knowledge" (using the term very loosely) from reading maps!

    Answer this - why does all the cross town traffic have to go at best within 800m of the very center of the town or at worst straight through the center of it?


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    #933
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    I'm going to smash my head of the ****ing wall! We're being preached at by someone who lives in Ballina who dosent have to use our road network every day. This country is in the toilet because we listen to those who's concern it's not and not to those who's concern it is!!!

    Based on location alone, you're discounting my views but not those who agree with you who don't live in Galway. Unlike some of those people Galway is the regional city for where I live and people driving needlessly a few km in Galway more often does affect me than the people you're not attacking. Their views are more valid because you agree with them! Unreal!

    But I think waste of public funds, dealing with our obesity epidemic, and wasteful use of limited resources affects everybody -- not just those who live in Galway or the west.

    Pappa Charlie wrote: »
    This country is in the toilet because we listen to those who's concern it's not and not to those who's concern it is!!!

    Sounds like the good old days of the boom where when anybody who said anything that went against the grain were told to hang them self.

    This country is "in the toilet" because of your type of "mind your own business" point of view.

    antoobrien wrote: »
    Nobody has replied because it's typical garbage of those who don't know anything about Galway getting their "knowledge" (using the term very loosely) from reading maps!

    So, I'm wrong, there's much more than 20,000 people west of the city... Where are they living? In invisible towns in the bogs? Hiding on the islands?

    Or maybe there's some kind of mass Census boycott west of the city?

    We've already established the tourists going west of the city are not much of a problem. So where do these mythical masses of people west of the city live?

    antoobrien wrote: »
    Answer this - why does all the cross town traffic have to go at best within 800m of the very center of the town or at worst straight through the center of it?

    The distance away from the town centre is not an issue. The issues are a mix of a lack of segregation, and too many driving just a few km with no other half decent options.

    To be clear: the issue is too many driving in all directions: city centre traffic and local traffic has a massive affect on those who need to travel longer distances.


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    #934
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    The debate has descended into childish mud slinging.
    Both sides feel strongly about their position and aren't willing to concede any ground.

    None of us is Sweetman here. Let's have a debate that allows the following:
    - Opinions from people who aren't from Galway - you do not have to live in a city to have a opinion on it, just need to have done some research
    - That it isn't necessary to find a foreign city that's exactly the same as Galway - just one with roughly similar problems (of which the world is full).
    - Solutions that tackle both short road journeys (which the bypass won't do but traffic law enforcement/cycling/reduction of car parking will) and long journeys (the opposite).
    - Accepting the idea that cars and buses are only two of the modes that will contribute to a solution here and that walking and cycling are just as important (and the weather is not: Denmark has plenty of rain and wind but tons of cyclists).
    - That failure of the park and ride is due to the city council's policies themselves and not due to some underlying issue with public transport.


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    #935
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    monument wrote: »
    But I think waste of public funds, dealing with our obesity epidemic,

    No amount of whining about obesity is going to make people that have to travel across town get on bikes if they feel the routes are unsafe and many people I've talked to say they might cycle if the roads were quieter.
    monument wrote: »
    wasteful use of limited resources affects everybody -- not just those who live in Galway or the west.

    I wish that the NRA would publish the CBA for the Galway bypass because they put it at a 6-7 times return on the cost of the project (based on 2008 prices). Not's not a waste under any definition of the word waste that I know of.

    A waste is promoting schemes that people don't want (P&R in Galway airport) and will ignore obesity campaigns, not that obesity has anything to do with the provision of a bypass for people that want to avoid the center of the town.

    I laugh openly at people who harp on about obesity because they change the rules to suit their arguments. Depending on which set of guidelines we look at I am either perfectly healthy, overweight or borderline obese but when my BP & resting heart rate are checked they are right in the middle of the healthy zone so go figure.

    I laugh at people who try to blame childhood obesity on being driven to school - as if this was a new thing. Most of my school was driver 20 years ago, there were very few of us obese because we were active. I think you'll find that it's the people that are too lazy to scratch that are obese and riving themselves has very little to do with it.

    So parents, if you want your kids not to be obese, pop a few fuses and make them go outside and play. Playing in the rain won't do them too much harm either, it certainly didn't kill me.


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    #936
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    monument wrote: »
    The distance away from the town centre is not an issue. The issues are a mix of a lack of segregation, and too many driving just a few km with no other half decent options.

    To be clear: the issue is too many driving in all directions: city centre traffic and local traffic has a massive affect on those who need to travel longer distances.

    I'm going to answer that BS with a map:

    260808.jpg

    There is no way for traffic to avoid the center of town.

    Deal with that not all the rubbish about short trips - which are irrelevant because the stats deal with radius not distances travelled - obesity or existence/not of bus routes (which cover every major road in town).


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    #937
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    antoobrien wrote: »
    No amount of whining about obesity is going to make people that have to travel across town get on bikes if they feel the routes are unsafe and many people I've talked to say they might cycle if the roads were quieter.

    I never suggest such whining would work.

    However, Dutch or Dainish type cycle paths however have a good chance of working, even beside busy roads.
    antoobrien wrote: »
    A waste is promoting schemes that people don't want (P&R in Galway airport) and will ignore obesity campaigns, not that obesity has anything to do with the provision of a bypass for people that want to avoid the center of the town.

    I laugh openly at people who harp on about obesity because they change the rules to suit their arguments. Depending on which set of guidelines we look at I am either perfectly healthy, overweight or borderline obese but when my BP & resting heart rate are checked they are right in the middle of the healthy zone so go figure.

    I laugh at people who try to blame childhood obesity on being driven to school - as if this was a new thing. Most of my school was driver 20 years ago, there were very few of us obese because we were active. I think you'll find that it's the people that are too lazy to scratch that are obese and riving themselves has very little to do with it.

    So parents, if you want your kids not to be obese, pop a few fuses and make them go outside and play. Playing in the rain won't do them too much harm either, it certainly didn't kill me.

    What about the parents? I was not thinking about childhood obesity, but see the attached graphs.

    Thing were different even 20 years ago... The real turning point was around 1996 for primary school children and later again for secondary school and things have gotten worse since!

    Going out to play type advice is great for both children and adults but building the activity into daily life is seen as the most effective way.


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    #938
    Pappa Charlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Pappa Charlie


    monument wrote: »
    I never suggest such whining would work.

    However, Dutch or Dainish type cycle paths however have a good chance of working, even beside busy roads.



    What about the parents? I was not thinking about childhood obesity, but see the attached graphs.

    Thing were different even 20 years ago... The real turning point was around 1996 for primary school children and later again for secondary school and things have gotten worse since!

    Going out to play type advice is great for both children and adults but building the activity into daily life is seen as the most effective way.

    We just want a bridge, we promise to let the children play more!


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    #939
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Answer this - why does all the cross town traffic have to go at best within 800m of the very center of the town or at worst straight through the center of it?

    In a word 'Geography'.

    Galway city is located at the mouth of the River Corrib. The strip of land between the mouth of the Corrib and Lough Corrib to the north is just 6km. Lough Corrib itself, is the 2nd largest lake in Ireland and extends north for approximately 30km to the border with Co. Mayo. The City has a medieval core of narrow streets bounded by the Corrib and the sea inlet Lough Atalia. Four bridges cross the river and now carry in excess of 80,000 vehicles daily.
    The most recent of these bridge crossings was opened to traffic in 1986, has four lanes and is built to modern standards, however the other three bridges are of much earlier construction, have two lanes, and have approaches severely restricted by the old street network.
    These factors contribute to the creation of a pinch point for movement between the eastern and western parts of the City and County, and the portion of County Galway west of Lough Corrib.
    To top it off Galway is pretty much surrounded by SAC's making development extremly difficult to get past planning regs.
    I see the pre-qual for Consultants is currently on e-tenders for the Bypass Scheme. It's back to the drawing board time. Pre-Qual docs have a 36month timeframe for getting scheme through the stat process. This may even be optimistics given the previous issues. Withe way, unlikly to be a consultant appointed until near the end of this year. Allow a further 3 years for constructions and you're looking at opening year of 2019 (best case).
    Until then, Galway will suffer severe traffic congestion. Residents can write a letter of thanks to My Sweetman and all his ilk for the current situation.


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    #940
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    monument wrote: »
    The petrol heads would have objected saying cyclists should not get anything on till they follow the rules of the road.

    They would have said this while their typing on their phones while driving at 60 in a 50 zone... or maybe while parked half on a footpath and half on a cycle lane.

    What is the relevance of this little side rant? Or, indeed, childhood obesity for that matter?

    Nobody can provide anything even suggesting that the required 30+% of traffic can be removed by modal shift, so instead we're getting given more pointless distractions.


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    #941
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    When you can come up with some serious suggestions of how to entirely remove maybe 30% of journeys from the system permanently, please let us know. Until then, your block-quoting of people and vague implications really aren't doing anything at all.

    You, and monument, have done nothing to suggest that your "proposals" are based in anything other than sheer and baseless opposition to the bypass.


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    #942
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,782 ✭✭✭SeanW


    spacetweek wrote: »
    None of us is Sweetman here.
    Unfortunately some do seem rather close.
    antoobrien wrote: »
    260808.jpg
    And that's the fundamental problem, I assume the entire reason for the bypass. Traffic on East-West journies going through the city that don't want to be there and have no reason to be there - this would be a problem for all concerned, no matter what Galway City was like.

    The issue that I see is that it seems to me to be likely that people are trying to solve completely different problems, but may be labouring under the illusion that they are the same problems.

    Anto pointed out the medium-long distance routes affected by the current situation versus Iwannahurl complaining about illegal parking (a reasonable complaint to be sure, but a different problem) and monument discussing obesity and short haul travel etc. Again, debatable but for a fundamentally different issue.


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    #943
    TINA1984
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭TINA1984


    MYOB wrote: »
    When you can come up with some serious suggestions of how to entirely remove maybe 30% of journeys from the system permanently, please let us know. Until then, your block-quoting of people and vague implications really aren't doing anything at all.

    You, and monument, have done nothing to suggest that your "proposals" are based in anything other than sheer and baseless opposition to the bypass.

    Ah MYOB responding with your usual tactfulness and grace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but you seem to be wilfully ignoring the serious suggestions which Iwannahurl & Monument have proposed to reduce traffic congestion in the Galway urban area. Namely improved cycling infrastructure, increased road-pricing measures in the town centre and, perhaps most importantly, a severe crackdown on motorists wilfully breaking the law wilfully by parking illegally & speeding?

    From there we could go into topics like medium to long term spatial-planning in Galway and its surrounding - rather large but rather sparsely populated - hinterland, of course 'tis a touchy subject for some ;)


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    #944
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    There are a number of Bypass-relevant facts about Galway City traffic flows

    Nothing relevant then, but lots of misdirection as usual.

    The traffic in Galway is not caused by schools (1st or 2nd). I have noticed it has been dropping off since the GMIT & NUI Galway exam sessions got about half way through (the week before the failure of the P&R started). The primary and secondary schools are nothing compared to this. I've noticed no drop off this week (no primary) vs last week (primary).

    Also if you've tried travelling on the Tuam Rd or SQR during the evening rush - after most of the kids will be home - you'll realise that the schools have very little impact of the traffic.

    So lets make a suggestion to see just how much impact the schools have: start primary & secondary schools at 7.30 am. There's a number of benefits to this - it gets them out of the 9 a.m. rush when retail and office businesses are trying to open and it gives them more daylight - especially during winter when it can be very fleeting - allowing them to tackle the obesity problem by getting their posteriors outside for longer.


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    #945
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    TINA1984 wrote: »
    Ah MYOB responding with your usual tactfulness and grace. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but you seem to be wilfully ignoring the serious suggestions which Iwannahurl & Monument have proposed to reduce traffic congestion in the Galway urban area. Namely improved cycling infrastructure, increased road-pricing measures in the town centre and, perhaps most importantly, a severe crackdown on motorists wilfully breaking the law wilfully by parking illegally & speeding?

    From there we could go into topics like medium to long term spatial-planning in Galway and its surrounding - rather large but rather sparsely populated - hinterland, of course 'tis a touchy subject for some ;)

    You fail to see the coded insults, AH "debating" tactics and wall of text argument-stopper attempts yet complain about tact? Oh dear. Selective reading much?

    The "serious" suggestions have amounted to linking us to pages about dissimilar cities in different countries; or suggesting that something which is already being trialled is, erm, trialled. They are not serious suggestions, they are not even more than vague references. The best suggestions have, in fact, come from the people you appear to be classing as opposed to them - such as rail improvements.

    Long-term spatial planning does not fix an existing issue. It is, again, nothing more than a distraction to try and remove the spotlight from the actuality that we have posters who are fundamentally opposed to the construction of road schemes and basically develop whatever front they require for a given scheme to oppose it.


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    #946
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,543 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Is it just me or wasnt there already a thread created on the merits of building this bypass. I thought the current thread here was to discuss its planning and please god construction.


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    #947
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    MYOB wrote: »
    Long-term spatial planning does not fix an existing issue. It is, again, nothing more than a distraction to try and remove the spotlight from the actuality that we have posters who are fundamentally opposed to the construction of road schemes and basically develop whatever front they require for a given scheme to oppose it.

    They also like to ignore the fact that employment outside the cities has more more less collapsed over the past 20 or so years and switched to urban based employment.

    There was an article in the indo a few weeks ago with some interesting maps (which unfortunately are not available online) and figures.

    In 1986 there were approx 155,000 people working in agriculture, forestry & fisheries (aff) across the country - meaning little/no commuting for these people. That figure was about 90,000 in 2011. Manufacturing also fell from 20%-13% rural employment. In contrast, the professional services sector (including healthcare, ps etc) has gone from 54,000 to 165,000.

    So not only are there less jobs in the countryside, these people are having to come to large towns and cities to find work.


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    #948
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    antoobrien wrote: »
    I'm going to answer that BS with a map:

    260808.jpg

    There is no way for traffic to avoid the center of town.

    Deal with that not all the rubbish about short trips - which are irrelevant because the stats deal with radius not distances travelled - obesity or existence/not of bus routes (which cover every major road in town).

    I've already said distance from the town centre is not an issue.

    The inner bypass / distributor road / whatever you're having your self is not a city centre type setting and there is clear scope to improve it while also looking at modal shift.


    MYOB wrote: »
    What is the relevance of this little side rant? Or, indeed, childhood obesity for that matter?

    Nobody can provide anything even suggesting that the required 30+% of traffic can be removed by modal shift, so instead we're getting given more pointless distractions.

    It was mirroring the rant posted by the poster who I was directly replying to. Not aimed at anybody else.

    It seems obesity for all ages has a lot to do with the built environment and the modes of transport we use.

    We need 30% modal shift? Only a few pages ago we were being told how 1/6 of the workforce being out at any one time cuts the congestion down in Galway. Now we need 30%? But, at the same time, I can't see why you'd think that would be such an impossable task? What do you know that makes it such an impossable task?


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    #949
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    monument wrote: »
    It was mirroring the rant posted by the poster who I was directly replying to. Not aimed at anybody else.

    Funny idea of "mirroring".
    monument wrote: »
    It seems obesity for all ages has a lot to do with the built environment and the modes of transport we use.

    Even more clutching at straws for a way to avoid the argument, then.
    monument wrote: »
    We need 30% modal shift? Only a few pages ago we were being told how 1/6 of the workforce being out at any one time cuts the congestion down in Galway. Now we need 30%? But, at the same time, I can't see why you'd think that would be such an impossable task? What do you know that makes it such an impossable task?

    People on holidays from work + very few at work in the 3rd level institutions + no school/college attendees = quite possible more than 30%

    If it is so obviously possible, could we have some concrete examples of it being possible? Rather than this ridiculous circular charade we have right now of trying to justify comparisons to completely unrelated scenarios.

    This reminds me of the worst sales presentation I ever had to suffer in my life at this stage


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    #950
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    monument wrote: »
    The inner bypass / distributor road / whatever you're having your self is not a city centre type setting and there is clear scope to improve it while also looking at modal shift.

    BS.

    It runs through the main shopping and residential areas east of the river - which existed before the road was planned. Any development that has happened around it is infill development, which if you listen to some people is a good thing, but apparently only when it happens in Dublin.

    Reading a map for knowledge is not doing your credibility any good.


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    #951
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    veryangryman wrote: »
    Is it just me or wasnt there already a thread created on the merits of building this bypass. I thought the current thread here was to discuss its planning and please god construction.

    It's not just you, there are several, here's a few that I can find quickly.

    From C&T: N6 - Galway outer bypass: Is it needed? (started for no apparent reason other than monument is a mod there as all the topics have come up in the other threads).
    Not really on-topic stuff from "N6 - Galway City Outer Bypass"
    M6 - is the Galway Bypass necessary? (thread split) - Caused by one of the protagonists this weekend.
    Do city bypasses deliver the goods, and if so what's the evidence? - supposedly not galway specific but still applicable
    And from Galway City: Temp ban on general traffic threads - the result of, well interactions like this weekend.

    Two of those threads are direct splits from this thread.


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    #952
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    MYOB wrote: »
    People on holidays from work + very few at work in the 3rd level institutions + no school/college attendees = quite possible more than 30%

    It could be closer to 40% of the city population, seeing as there are between 15k & 25k students and about 5k staff across both 3rd level institutions.


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    #953
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    antoobrien wrote: »
    It could be closer to 40% of the city population, seeing as there are between 15k & 25k students and about 5k staff across both 3rd level institutions.

    And, living in a university town myself, I can tell you that there'll be a hell of a lot of students and staff who don't even live there outside of term time. You don't contribute to the number of journeys being made at all when you're not even making leisure/retail ones.


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    #954
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    MYOB wrote: »
    People on holidays from work + very few at work in the 3rd level institutions + no school/college attendees = quite possible more than 30%

    If it is so obviously possible, could we have some concrete examples of it being possible? Rather than this ridiculous circular charade we have right now of trying to justify comparisons to completely unrelated scenarios.

    This reminds me of the worst sales presentation I ever had to suffer in my life at this stage

    Where was this quite possible 30%+ pulled from? Did you go to the David Drumm school of pulling figures out of places?

    You're asking for "concrete examples" yet you're plucking figures from nowhere.

    It reminds me of taking to one if the most senior urban traffic engineers in the country: he said when traffic is at near critical levels that most people will view a 10% drop as far greater than the actual drop because it will seem like a lot of traffic must have been taken out to get flows moving. The reality is fairly modest drops look far greater.


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    #955
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    monument wrote: »
    Where was this quite possible 30%+ pulled from? Did you go to the David Drumm school of pulling figures out of places?

    You're asking for "concrete examples" yet you're plucking figures from nowhere.

    The figures are based on the numbers of students attending and staff working in GMIT & NUI Galway that are basically off for the summer. The numbers of students are well known to be approx 10k in GMIT & 15k in NUI Galway. The predilection for holidays during the July is also well known - hence it being called part of the "high season."

    Again a nothing argument that further reduces that vanishingly small piece of credibility attached to such posts.


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    #956
    Pappa Charlie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭Pappa Charlie


    monument wrote: »
    Where was this quite possible 30%+ pulled from? Did you go to the David Drumm school of pulling figures out of places?

    You're asking for "concrete examples" yet you're plucking figures from nowhere.

    It reminds me of taking to one if the most senior urban traffic engineers in the country: he said when traffic is at near critical levels that most people will view a 10% drop as far greater than the actual drop because it will seem like a lot of traffic must have been taken out to get flows moving. The reality is fairly modest drops look far greater.

    What ever happened with the glen of the downes or the hill of Tara road projects did they cause envoirnmental devastation as predicted?


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    #957
    galwaycyclist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    antoobrien wrote: »
    The figures are based on the numbers of students attending and staff working in GMIT & NUI Galway that are basically off for the summer. The numbers of students are well known to be approx 10k in GMIT & 15k in NUI Galway. The predilection for holidays during the July is also well known - hence it being called part of the "high season."

    Ok well lets start with the students then. In Oxford and Cambridge undergraduates are forbidden to bring cars onto campus. In Galway, both the GMIT and NUI, Galway appear to have bent over backwards to provide car parking for undergraduates.

    If I have it right, the VEC also changed the grant rules to reduce the subvention to students that they consider to be within driving distance of college eg they pushed them to drive instead of living and renting in Galway. (I need to follow this one up probably someone else here can confirm)


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    #958
    Gambas
    Registered Users Posts: 846 ✭✭✭Gambas


    antoobrien wrote: »
    It could be closer to 40% of the city population, seeing as there are between 15k & 25k students and about 5k staff across both 3rd level institutions.

    Officially the staff in the third level colleges work through the summer. Officially. ;)


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    #959
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    spacetweek wrote: »
    The debate has descended into childish mud slinging.
    Both sides feel strongly about their position and aren't willing to concede any ground.

    None of us is Sweetman here. Let's have a debate that allows the following:
    - Opinions from people who aren't from Galway - you do not have to live in a city to have a opinion on it, just need to have done some research
    - That it isn't necessary to find a foreign city that's exactly the same as Galway - just one with roughly similar problems (of which the world is full).
    - Solutions that tackle both short road journeys (which the bypass won't do but traffic law enforcement/cycling/reduction of car parking will) and long journeys (the opposite).
    - Accepting the idea that cars and buses are only two of the modes that will contribute to a solution here and that walking and cycling are just as important (and the weather is not: Denmark has plenty of rain and wind but tons of cyclists).
    - That failure of the park and ride is due to the city council's policies themselves and not due to some underlying issue with public transport.
    Why can't you have that discussion in the thread in the appropriate forum for it?? I thought C&T's thread was perfectly suited to discussing alternatives and the use of Park and Ride or cycling lanes in general to reduce car usage in Galway. I obviously have no claim or mod powers on insisting you do this other than as a request for you and everyone else to at least use common sense! Though I agree with your overall contention that mudslinging is breaking out from many quarters.

    I have one issue though, you say that the bypass "won't tackle short journeys" but could you clarify what you mean there? It seems more than a little counterintuitive.


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    #960
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,948 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    monument wrote: »
    Where was this quite possible 30%+ pulled from? Did you go to the David Drumm school of pulling figures out of places?

    Estimations based on known population, known number of students in the 3rd level institutions, etc. Just because its a very big number for you to try and argue around doesn't mean its not valid.
    monument wrote: »
    You're asking for "concrete examples" yet you're plucking figures from nowhere.

    I'm making an informed estimation, possible an underestimation. You're not providing any examples at all at this stage.

    monument wrote: »
    It reminds me of taking to one if the most senior urban traffic engineers in the country: he said when traffic is at near critical levels that most people will view a 10% drop as far greater than the actual drop because it will seem like a lot of traffic must have been taken out to get flows moving. The reality is fairly modest drops look far greater.

    ...except that we've had about that much of a traffic drop nationally due to the recession already.


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    #961
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    Ok well lets start with the students then. In Oxford and Cambridge undergraduates are forbidden to bring cars onto campus. In Galway, both the GMIT and NUI, Galway appear to have bent over backwards to provide car parking for undergraduates.p

    That is in fact crap, when they introduced parking permits (I was attending at the time) they hit the students first and did everything they could to get them off campus. That backfired, so they provided facilities after several years.
    galwaycyclist wrote: »
    If I have it right, the VEC also changed the grant rules to reduce the subvention to students that they consider to be within driving distance of college eg they pushed them to drive instead of living and renting in Galway. (I need to follow this one up probably someone else here can confirm)

    According to citizens information there are two rates adjacent and non-adjacent. The adjacent rate applies to 45km, when I was going it was 15 miles.


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