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Further €3.1 billion will be sought next year?

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13

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    #62
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    DazMarz wrote: »
    This country needs to take a leaf from the people of France. When the government does ANYTHING over there to impinge on their lives, the country shuts down and action is taken by the citizens.

    Over there, the government is scared shítless of the citizens. Over here, the citizens are scared shítless of the government. Not a good thing.

    No one is scared of our governments.. But our governments have divided the people, they've turned private & public sector employee's against each other.

    People should be uniting against the government, bring weight of numbers against them but noooo, we'd rather bitch and moan.

    The country, the government aren't a joke, 'Mickey the Bitch public' is the joke for dropping their pants and taking it up the arse.


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    #63
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    People vote for austerity, people get austerity, people complain? WTF?


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    #64
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,192 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Yes, two more years of fiscal contraction, as planned.

    It will be painful.


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    #65
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,825 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Estimated expenditure 2013. Social Protection €20.2 billion, Health €13.6 billion, Education €8.5 billion total just for those three €42.3 billion. Expected total tax intake around €38 billion.

    Has anyone on this thread suggested that they want their own personal circumstances to worsen? Probably not and I haven't heard it from anyone on the dole or a pensioner or a teacher or a nurse or a Guard. Or the people on the real big money in the private sector. But there are lots of suggestion to make others worse off, human nature I suppose.

    Here's my suggestion to make some other people worse off. Do away with Child Benefit which is a new fangled invention and do away with Third Level grants. Let people pay for rearing their own children and if they want education beyond second level, pay for it.


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    #66
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Geuze wrote: »
    Yes, two more years of fiscal contraction, as planned.

    It will be painful.

    Not if you are among the elite and on friendly terms with our politicians.


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    #67
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Estimated expenditure 2013. Social Protection €20.2 billion, Health €13.6 billion, Education €8.5 billion total just for those three €42.3 billion. Expected total tax intake around €38 billion.

    Has anyone on this thread suggested that they want their own personal circumstances to worsen? Probably not and I haven't heard it from anyone on the dole or a pensioner or a teacher or a nurse or a Guard. Or the people on the real big money in the private sector. But there are lots of suggestion to make others worse off, human nature I suppose.

    Here's my suggestion to make some other people worse off. Do away with Child Benefit which is a new fangled invention and do away with Third Level grants. Let people pay for rearing their own children and if they want education beyond second level, pay for it.

    I take it you have no children.


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    #68
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,192 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    Here's my suggestion to make some other people worse off. Do away with Child Benefit which is a new fangled invention and do away with Third Level grants. Let people pay for rearing their own children and if they want education beyond second level, pay for it.

    Note that horizontal redistribution to families is common across many modern societies.

    Most people accept that society should bear some of the costs of child-rearing.

    How and how much is debateable.

    Also note that horizontal redistribution to families started in some countries pre WWII.


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    #69
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    TAXES are for small people” is the growing trend in many countries, with the multinational corporations able to make use of a variety of legal loopholes to pay as little as 2% tax on multibillion-euro profits.

    While there are no definite figures for how money is being lost to the exchequer, estimates suggest the shadow economy — those not paying tax they properly should — amounts to 20% of the EU’s GDP. Ireland is at the lower end of this scale, with the sixth smallest shadow economy last year, estimated at 12.8% of its GDP or roughly €14bn that is going untaxed.

    I make this point again. Shocking waste of money. The G8 will raise this issue in Fermanagh later this year.
    And before someone yells ''employment''; no I don't care about a whole bunch of foreign nationals working in call centres and HQs in Dublin. Pay your taxes or fuhk off!


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    #70
    clairefontaine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    There is a huge baby boom in Ireland. It was in today's Independent and you can find the same article here:

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/baby-boom-longer-lives-put-republic-of-ireland-on-course-for-prefamine-population-level-29233506.html

    It is going to put huge pressure on schools as well as child benefit. If they are going to balance the budget they are going to have to slash and burn child benefit. No way can they sustain all of it.

    My economics 101 teacher openned his first class with "you can balance the budget, or you can make people happy, but you cannot do both."


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    #71
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Interesting how in the direct quotes he seems careful to say "income taxation" as opposed to "any taxation".

    I've got news for you Brian:-

    Whether I pay €100 more on my tax return, or I have to pay €100 more property tax / motor tax / air tax / sugarplum fairy tax - whatever form that €100 takes matters to me not a fiddlers w*nk.

    All that matters Brian, and listen carefully now, is that I now have €100 less in my pocket to pay the mortgage, pay for light and heat, feed my family, send the kids to school, pay into a pension (so as to not burden the state when I get older), keep a car on the road so I can do my work (in order to earn more money and and pay more tax), etc etc.


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    #72
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Maddison Scary Sailor wrote: »
    No one is scared of our governments.. But our governments have divided the people, they've turned private & public sector employee's against each other.

    People should be uniting against the government, bring weight of numbers against them but noooo, we'd rather bitch and moan.

    The country, the government aren't a joke, 'Mickey the Bitch public' is the joke for dropping their pants and taking it up the arse.

    Harsh truth is that there's a substantial amount of people who know the axe is'nt going to drop near them so they're quite happy to see everyone else take the pain

    *cough*rural fine gael voters*cough*


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    #73
    JD DABA
    Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭JD DABA


    SeanW wrote: »
    Ooh, Ooh, I know why don't they increase Road Tax again? I mean someone with a poverty spec saloon from 15 years ago clearly isn't paying enough with ~€710 regardless if they're unemployed, on a low wage, deep in debt, just plain broke.

    Bastards :mad:

    Don't forget your NCT ..... Im paying 400 for something that in no way affects the functioning of my car :):):) The voices tell me to burn stuff. :)


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    #74
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,921 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    JD DABA wrote: »
    Don't forget your NCT ..... Im paying 400 for something that in no way affects the functioning of my car :):):) The voices tell me to burn stuff. :)

    Some canny NCT sham just overcharged you €345 for a car test.........


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    #75
    paddy147
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 15,858 ✭✭✭✭paddy147


    lightspeed wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/business/

    So next year is going to us trying to raise another additional €3.1 billion from spending cuts and tax measures.

    Brain Hayes of Fine Gael said that income tax had already reached its limitations and income tax cant take anymore increases.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0104/361260-brian-hayes-taxation/

    So where will this money come from now and in subsequent years?

    Even if they decrease welfare, there seems to be quite a struggle from unions to take any further cuts now and yet its envisioned that somehow its going to be possible to introduce further cuts next year.

    Will this be croke park 3 with 4 to follow?

    Can we assume that property taxes will actually be then increased next year? Apparently austerity led budgets right up to 2016?

    Ive little money in the bank but i cant help but worry reading the above that if we are going in the direction of Cyprus or another bailout.


    Dont pay the fecking bondholders their installment of 3.1 billion.

    3.1 billion saved just like that.

    We really do have a shower of gombeens running the country.

    And if someone says ah sure its FFs fault,Im going to scream.:eek:




    Its FG and Labour who are choosing this austerity path and to tax the fcuk out of us all,instead of actually sticking to their prommises.

    But yet they wont take any financial burden themselves and will keep top bankers nice and happy.:rolleyes::mad:


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    #76
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    An abortion bidding tax would help.

    Young lady wants an abortion, starts the bidding at 100 Euro.

    Pro-lifers must then bid 200 Euro to block the abortion.

    Following that the young lady who wants an abortion must bid 300 Euro to continue.

    Then the pro-lifers have to come in with a bid of 400 to continue blocking it.

    This goes on up until a set time when the action closes.

    We could call it Ba-bay.ie


    A great way to fleece the Iona institute.

    5 stars, great Ba-bayer to abort with, will deal again.


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    #77
    dj1980
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭dj1980


    SeanW wrote: »
    Ooh, Ooh, I know why don't they increase Road Tax again? I mean someone with a poverty spec saloon from 15 years ago clearly isn't paying enough with ~€710 regardless if they're unemployed, on a low wage, deep in debt, just plain broke.

    Bastards :mad:

    Stop being a peasant a buy a 3 litre v6 S4 and pay the same tax
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84273166

    The old motor tax system is a joke but it's the golden hen and contrary to the fairy-tale they're not putting it to the chopping block any time soon.


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    #78
    Omar187
    Closed Accounts Posts: 36 ✭Omar187


    lanyard wrote: »
    Cut the dole - it's the €20billion elephant in the room


    And watch the sh*t hit the fan as crime levels sore to highs only seen in third world countries,
    And then it would probably not be too safe outside in broad daylight, as the Garda would never be able to handle it with been understaffed and moral at an all time low as it is.


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    #79
    dj1980
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭dj1980


    Omar187 wrote: »
    And watch the sh*t hit the fan as crime levels sore to highs only seen in third world countries,
    And then it would probably not be too safe outside in broad daylight, as the Garda would never be able to handle it with been understaffed and moral at an all time low as it is.

    We only need to cut 3, pump the other 17B into the Gardai


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    #80
    msg11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    paddy147 wrote: »
    Dont pay the fecking bondholders their installment of 3.1 billion.

    3.1 billion saved just like that.

    We really do have a shower of gombeens running the country.

    And if someone says ah sure its FFs fault,Im going to scream.:eek:




    Its FG and Labour who are choosing this austerity path and to tax the fcuk out of us all,instead of actually sticking to their prommises.

    But yet they wont take any financial burden themselves and will keep top bankers nice and happy.:rolleyes::mad:

    Plus if the bondholders gave to ****s about us (which they don't) they would accept there losses, instead we should be imposing losses on them. They want there money back at the expense of the Irish.

    Don't pay them and they won't pay us,fine they won't make money on the loan they give us. It's up too them, they need us as much.

    Not just the government in the Dail but all the party's and every politician needs to understand this, nobody's wages have increased in Ireland in the significant majority of workers IE the lads on the ground either in public or the private sector, every rise in tax is money taken away from job creation and private/public company's profits. It is also given the lads on the ground less money to spend locally, either in pubs, shops, cinemas it's these places in the communities that hire local people and will get things moving again.

    Taxing people to the hilts is great for the short term it will generate income until the pub, shops or cinemas close due to them taking on a loss and putting there staff on welfare. I mean I work in Tesco and the shop is doing okay at the moment but if people are spending less it might reach a stage where Tesco are making serious losses on the shop and have no option but to close it and that dose not effect just the Tesco workers but every other shop in the building that feeds off the Tesco footfall.

    Everyone of them in the Dail are so out of touch with the general public it nut's. Even if they are not elected they are not agreeing on anything, if anything we need in the Dail is unity off all the party's to get use out of this mess if they cared anything for Ireland and not the pay/pensions this would be happening. We have had five years of rising taxes, new taxes cuts. Has the alarm bells not gone off in the Dail that this is not working, the IMF for god sake have said it is not working. But instead of coming up with something new and radical they push ahead with more of the same and I have an awful feeling that this budget is going to be the one where we go really really past the point of no return and it all gos tits up.

    And someone said that the people are suggesting this and that but nothing against themselves. I tell you something, see the USC and Tax. I never paid that before up until 2/3 years ago and I am working 6 years. I would happily pay more tax and USC if I felt what my money was going to was good. It's not, when I hear story's about 600,000 odd thousand been pissed away by the likes of Siptu or CEO bankers pay at around 500,000 that's nearly 33 times my yearly pay. I think to myself, why am I paying anything they can't be trusted to use my money correctly. So why the hell would I happily take another tax rise? God knows what other waste of money they have done with my tax's it makes me sick. So if they look closer to home for some saves then I will happily accept a rise in my contribution to the USC and Tax as a low paid worker.


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    #81
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    lanyard wrote: »
    Cut the dole - it's the €20billion elephant in the room

    Morally they know they should. Politically they know they can't.

    These days, the welfare vote will swing any constituency you like. Not to be f**ked with in other words.

    As Winston Churchill said, democracy is a terrible system, but it's the best one we've got.


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    #82
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,350 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    There are two ways of looking at out budgetary situation.
    1. We are spending more money than we can afford
    2. We are not earning enough money to meet our costs

    The government is focused on number 1 and is trying to cut costs everywhere, even if those cost cutting exercises are destroying our ability to generate income (ie, grow the economy again)

    All of their policies are hugely deflationary. They are completely focused on appeasing the Troike and 'getting back into the bond markets'

    What they should be focusing on is recovering our economy and securing the assets of the Irish state for the use of the Citizens of our state.

    We are increasing the tax burden on Irish people to send abroad to bankers and bondholders

    We are selling off income generating assets to pay off debts

    The irish government have demonstrated that they are utterly incompetent in managing the interests of the irish people. It's pathetic.

    Austerity is not working, it won't suddenly start working when we ramp it up even further now that all the low hanging fruit (amongst the politically powerless) has been harvested.


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    #83
    dj1980
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭dj1980


    topper75 wrote: »
    Morally they know they should. Politically they know they can't.

    These days, the welfare vote will swing any constituency you like. Not to be f**ked with in other words.

    As Winston Churchill said, democracy is a terrible system, but it's the best one we've got.

    It's sad but true.

    What's also sad is that the average age of our politicians is 20 years more than the average age of Ireland. It would explain why they're so out of touch with society. It's greed and selfishness pure and simple. They're more concerned about keeping their seat than doing their job.


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    #84
    V_Moth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭V_Moth


    One very easy way of raising 2 to 3 Billion per year would be a Financial Transaction Tax. Unfortunately it looks like Ibec has convinced the government to vote against any such proposal at EU level, which to be honest is hardly in the interest of the people.


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    #85
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    squod wrote: »
    I make this point again. Shocking waste of money. The G8 will raise this issue in Fermanagh later this year.
    And before someone yells ''employment''; no I don't care about a whole bunch of foreign nationals working in call centres and HQs in Dublin. Pay your taxes or fuhk off!

    They do pay wages. The loss of multinationals would reduce Ireland's economy by 20-50% with little hope of growth after that.

    That said we need to remove that Bermuda loophole.


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    #86
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    Akrasia wrote: »
    There are two ways of looking at out budgetary situation.
    1. We are spending more money than we can afford
    2. We are not earning enough money to meet our costs

    The government is focused on number 1 and is trying to cut costs everywhere, even if those cost cutting exercises are destroying our ability to generate income (ie, grow the economy again)
    Focusing on 1 is actually the more beneficial option for the economy. If they go for 2, which is essentially massive tax increases on everyone and everything, that takse a huge amount out of the economy, it greatly reduces people's ability to spend, and thus makes the whole economy contract.


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    #87
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    SeanW wrote: »
    Ooh, Ooh, I know why don't they increase Road Tax again? I mean someone with a poverty spec saloon from 15 years ago clearly isn't paying enough with ~€710 regardless if they're unemployed, on a low wage, deep in debt, just plain broke.

    Bastards :mad:

    I have one of those poverty spec saloons , the years road tax is actually worth more than the car!


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    #88
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    stevenmu wrote: »
    Focusing on 1 is actually the more beneficial option for the economy. If they go for 2, which is essentially massive tax increases on everyone and everything, that takse a huge amount out of the economy, it greatly reduces people's ability to spend, and thus makes the whole economy contract.

    Actually both are taking money out of the economy. There will be 3.5B less in the economy either way.


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    #89
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    Duggys Housemate wrote: »
    Actually both are taking money out of the economy. There will be 3.5B less in the economy either way.

    True, but the more of it they get from spending cuts, the better for the economy it is as a whole.

    Spending cuts do take money out of the economy, people on welfare recieve less money they can spend, public servants get paid less, or may even end up out of jobs. But that effects the economy less than tax hikes which hit every one across the whole economy.

    So (IMHO) the more of the adjustment done through spending cuts the better.


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    #90
    Duggys Housemate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭Duggys Housemate


    stevenmu wrote: »
    True, but the more of it they get from spending cuts, the better for the economy it is as a whole.

    Spending cuts do take money out of the economy, people on welfare recieve less money they can spend, public servants get paid less, or may even end up out of jobs. But that effects the economy less than tax hikes which hit every one across the whole economy.

    So (IMHO) the more of the adjustment done through spending cuts the better.

    It depends. Do the people losing money spend that money or not? ( The Marginal propensity to consume).


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    #91
    Bogota
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 537 ✭✭✭Bogota


    Build the prison industrial complex.

    Allow private companies to build prisons. Judges agree to drastically increase their imposition of prison sentencing. There are a number of upsides to this:

    1. Thousands of new jobs in prison complexes
    2. Thousands of people off social welfare (lets face it a lot of those on welfare have convictions)
    3. More jobs created as a need to cloth, feed and provide other necessities to thousands of prisoners.
    4. More people incarcerated mean less scum on the streets so this would allow the government to cut gardai spending more.
    5. More heroin junkies, alcoholics etc. being locked up for crimes means that healthcare will be less costly.


    Theres a prison in Arizona that houses prisoners for a cost of $0.30 a day per prisoner. If private prisons could do it that cheap then the above listed benefits would outweigh the costs paid to private companies to operate them.


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