What really happened Osama bin Laden

Dave! · 02-05-2011 9:04pm

jackiebaron wrote: »

I don't know Dave....I'm not going to get into a whole new discussion about 911. When a plane crashes or comes apart in mid-air, engineers and technicians don't just gather up all the bits, dump them in a furnace and say "Well, the plane crashed. Everyone's dead. Deal with it". They piece the thing together and start tests on every square millimeter of the thing. They recreate conditions. They test batches of all the rivets that were used in that aircraft. They do an engineering equivalent of an indepth autopsy.
And I don't think it's a bit redundant to test the metal on a building that was the first in history to allegedly collapse from fire. Surely engineers and architects would want to know what they got wrong.
I know I would. But carting off the evidence for disposal pretty much put paid to that exercise.

I have no interest in a 9/11 discussion either.

They'll only do an investigation like you describe on a plane crash because they need to determine if there was pilot error, or a mechanical fault. Same with car crashes, they have to determine what the cause was. It was pretty clear what happened on 9/11, given all the video evidence. I'd say Bush and co. were more interested in determining who did it than what were the exact physical factors that lead to the buildings collapsing.

And the twin towers were not the first buildings to collapse due to fire. That's just untrue.

Di0genes · 02-05-2011 9:06pm

He died years ago

Hookah wrote: »

What date is that debunking from, and what paper are they talking about? I posted a 2010 video.

Do you wanna pick another thread?

Start a thread.

Or better yet search for Jones or and see how this has been done already on this forum.

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 9:09pm

Di0genes wrote: »

How exactly do you have forensic investigation of the collapse of two sky scrapers.

Genuinely curious.

Why can't you?
If you can have a forensic investigation of planes crashed into smithereens, if you can have a forensic investigation into why the Titanic sank or why levees failed or bridges collapsed or nuclear power plants melted down then why can't you conduct an indepth investigation into the exact failings of 3 skysrapers that fell down?

Genuinely curious.

Hookah · 02-05-2011 9:10pm

He is alive and well somewhere

jackiebaron wrote: »

Why can't you?
If you can have a forensic investigation of planes crashed into smithereens, if you can have a forensic investigation into why the Titanic sank or why levees failed or bridges collapsed or nuclear power plants melted down then why can't you conduct an indepth investigation into the exact failings of 3 skysrapers that fell down?

Genuinely curious.

Because it should be enough that we all saw what happened, apparently.

No need to investigate.

Monty Burnz · 02-05-2011 9:12pm

He died years ago

Rumple Fugly wrote: »

Definately something a bit fishy about this so-called confirmed kill.

The US Military were tripping over each other to get their pictures taken with Saddam (although he was still alive at the time) and yet they couldn't wait to get rid of the corpse of one of the worlds most wanted men without taking as much as a quick snap of him with a mobile phone!
Another suspicious fact is that they only just found him now after all these years even though he's been hidden away in a modest(!) million dollar mansion with an 18ft wall surrounding it, and only a stones throw from a Pakistani police station and Military Academy. It must have been like looking for a football in a haystack!

The American people want to believe he's dead so they swallowed this story without question but the more cynical of us have to wonder about the quick disposal

This is going to get confusing - we now have two CTs at work here:

1. Bin Laden died years ago, and the US are pretending to have got him yesterday.
2. Bin Laden is alive and well, and the US are pretending to have got him yesterday.

Time to get out the popcorn. Maybe we should have a poll?

DublinWriter · 02-05-2011 9:12pm

Di0genes wrote: »

I have read it all. And I should point out. I've freelanced for Al Jazeera.
...
Al Jazeera believe it's bin Laden.
...
How, and from who. What exactly would you want?

Al Jazeera employ journalists that start sentences with conjunctions, drop demonstrative pronouns and use incorrect subjective pronouns in idioms?

Where do I sign up?!?

Di0genes · 02-05-2011 9:13pm

He died years ago

DublinWriter wrote: »

Al Jazeera employ journalists that start sentences with conjunctions, drop demonstrative pronouns and use incorrect subjective pronouns in idioms?

Where do I sign up?!?

I'm a video editor.

Monty Burnz · 02-05-2011 9:14pm

He died years ago

Just a quick poll to see the way that popular opinion is moving with regard to his recent 'death'. What do we think, folks?

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 9:14pm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Also, why would bin Laden want to be taken alive? Why would he allow it?

Maybe he wouldn't. But what's he going to do? Set himself on fire just so he can't be identified? If he put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger then fine...he's gone. Then produce the corpse. If he's not going to kill himself but rather go down fighting (this frail old goat) then why not just sit him out and then show the world that you have him instead of allegedly whacking him and then dumping the body?

fontanalis · 02-05-2011 9:14pm

He died years ago

He's up in heaven with Stalin and Bob Marley.

Hookah · 02-05-2011 9:15pm

He is alive and well somewhere

Dead ten years, probably at Tora Bora.

Today's stirring of the conspiracy pot for I don't-know-yet what reason.

Di0genes · 02-05-2011 9:15pm

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

Why can't you?
If you can have a forensic investigation of planes crashed into smithereens, if you can have a forensic investigation into why the Titanic sank or why levees failed or bridges collapsed or nuclear power plants melted down then why can't you conduct an indepth investigation into the exact failings of 3 skysrapers that fell down?

Genuinely curious.

Please give me a example of the forensic investigation of all three.

In fact scratch that. Explain what you think a forensic investigation is, and then show me the forensic investigation that took place of these three or four examples you cite.

Monty Burnz · 02-05-2011 9:15pm

He died years ago

Wow, you guys are quick off the mark!

My name is URL · 02-05-2011 9:17pm

He died years ago

I believe he was killed in the 'raid'

fontanalis · 02-05-2011 9:17pm

He died years ago

Hookah wrote: »

Dead ten years, probably at Tora Bora.

Today's stirring of the conspiracy pot for I don't-know-yet what reason.

Based on what. Why is the idea of him escaping and being able to hide out so ridiculous. He's from one of the richest families in Saudi Arabia and has support from a lot of people in the region.

irishpaddy · 02-05-2011 9:18pm

I am unsure/ Open to all possibilities.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Just a quick poll to see the way that popular opinion is moving with regard to his recent 'death'. What do we think, folks?

i have my doubts, they buried him very fast and at sea. he is probably on the titanic now. i would have thought they would milk it for all its worth. its not the yanks style not relish the glory, but i hope he is gone.

Monty Burnz · 02-05-2011 9:18pm

He died years ago

DublinWriter wrote: »

Al Jazeera employ journalists that start sentences with conjunctions, drop demonstrative pronouns and use incorrect subjective pronouns in idioms?

That's a rule of thumb they teach kids who don't have much in the way of writerly instinct. It's not some sort of iron rule. And surely 'who start' would be preferable to 'that start'?

BlastedGlute · 02-05-2011 9:20pm

He is alive and well somewhere

I love this tid bit for people who missed it when it was in the mainstream: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8281839.stm

Anf that little tid bit ended the war apparently. Some things never change. Right now we have no remains whatsoever. Just some crummy DNA that could come from any one of the many many surviving members of the bin laden family: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family

Typical.

Hookah · 02-05-2011 9:20pm

He is alive and well somewhere

fontanalis wrote: »

Based on what. Why is the idea of him escaping and being able to hide out so ridiculous. He's from one of the richest families in Saudi Arabia and has support from a lot of people in the region.

It's not ridiculous. He could well have survived.

I just happen to believe the reports that he died at Tora Bora.

I don't buy today's charade. Not on the evidence produced so far.

sierrasapphire · 02-05-2011 9:21pm

he's in carlow, no doubt.

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 9:22pm

Dave! wrote: »

Why in the fúck would they do that, though?! It's quite clear that planes flew into them, there's no need to introduce explosives into the mix! Might as well test it for pixies with tiny blowtorches while you're at it.

Dave....we all know that planes flew into the buildings. Nobody's disputing that. There's no need to bring pixies or elves into it. But you test metal failure to determine the exact cause and pattern of the failure. You don't just gather it all up and fück it into a skip and dump it. That right there is cause for suspicion.
Why do we conduct post-mortems on corpses instead of just cremating them and destroying the evidence before an exact cause of death can be determined?

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 9:27pm

robtri wrote: »

if they did not kill him, it a bit of a joke really then, considering bin laden would release a video saying he was alive, making the americans look like a laughing stock.......

be a stupid pointless exercise pretending he was dead......

Not if they knew he was already dead for years and were only using the threat of him to continue their campaigns.

Jeboa Safari · 02-05-2011 9:33pm

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

Not if they knew he was already dead for years and were only using the threat of him to continue their campaigns.

Except the republicans could have used it to get Bush or McCain elected in the last 2 elections

Monty Burnz · 02-05-2011 9:33pm

He died years ago

Hookah wrote: »

I just happen to believe the reports that he died at Tora Bora.

Without wanting to draw the withering contempt and epic slating I got from one or two other posters earlier, could I ask what evidence convinces you that he died in Tora Bora rather than yesterday? Obviously we are all waiting for the evidence for yesterday's claims...

Don't you think if he died in Tora Bora the Bush regime would have been all over the story like a cheap suit?

sollar · 02-05-2011 9:38pm

He is alive and well somewhere

Why can't they show us a photo of the body. All would be clear then.

They had no problem showing saddam

Monty Burnz · 02-05-2011 9:40pm

He died years ago

sollar wrote: »

Why can't they show us a photo of the body. All would be clear then.

Well, all wouldn't be clear because we all know that a large cohort of people will not believe any picture or accept any proof. But you are dead right, why are they allowing the pot to boil by not producing something solid?

jackiebaron · 02-05-2011 9:42pm

fontanalis wrote: »

Why should they have told him to shut up? Under the 1st ammendment government can't interefere with a persons comments. As deluded as that preacher was, he can't be held responsible for a bunch of cave mens actions. And now you think this was used to build support for the war? F**k me sideways!

Don't bring the Constitution into this. It's meaningless. And is used as a tool when it suits Washington and is bypassed when the whim arises. You mean to tell me that invasive airport pat-downs or warrantless wiretaps are not in contravention of "unreasonable search and seizure"? That's the Fourth Amendment.
What about detention without trial or charge....i.e. Habeous Corpus? That's in the Magna Carta.
What about waging a war of agression. The US Constitution declares that all treaties are the "Supreme Law of the Land" yet the Nuremberg Charter, the Geneva Protocols and the International Ban on Torture have been signed up to by the US and subsequently ignored.

Don't expect to hold the US government accountable and expect it to treat the Constitution as something sacrosanct when they cherry-pick the bits they like and trash the rest.

Free-speech zones? So much for the right to free assembly!

i71jskz5xu42pb · 02-05-2011 9:42pm

Will and Kate leave on their honeymoon in a helicopter to a secret location.
A few days later Bin Laden turns up dead.

I'm just sayin'

Di0genes · 02-05-2011 9:43pm

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

Don't bring the Constitution into this. It's meaningless. And is used as a tool when it suits Washington and is bypassed when the whim arises. You mean to tell me that invasive airport pat-downs or warrantless wiretaps are not in contravention of "unreasonable search and seizure"? That's the Fourth Amendment.
What about detention without trial or charge....i.e. Habeous Corpus? That's in the Magna Carta.
What about waging a war of agression. The US Constitution declares that all treaties are the "Supreme Law of the Land" yet the Nuremberg Charter, the Geneva Protocols and the International Ban on Torture have been signed up to by the US and subsequently ignored.

Don't expect to hold the US government accountable and expect it to treat the Constitution as something sacrosanct when they cherry-pick the bits they like and trash the rest.

Free-speech zones? So much for the right to free assembly!

Really you're spinning now.

Yitzhak Rabin · 02-05-2011 9:48pm

He is alive and well somewhere

I would've pick don't know/unsure if it were an option.

I picked dead for a few years though.

I find it hard to believe that a man who is in need of constant medical attention could survive for years in afghan mountains, and then presumably move to the capital of Islamabad and no-one would know he was there, despite the place crawling with CIA/ISI agents and a cool $25 million on offer for info on his whereabouts. Not to mention as the foremost allahuakbar vlogger he has managed to keep stum for about 8 years now.

Then when they do find him, they kill him and fúck his body off the edge of a boat.

Its possible, but I'd remain skeptical for now.

What really happened Osama bin Laden

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