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"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    dead one wrote: »
    Slide346.jpg

    I fail to get your point as either way you clearly haven't bothered to actually read them.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    dead one wrote: »
    Slide346.jpg
    Were you at a school controlled by a religion yourself?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    Were you at a school controlled by a religion yourself?
    Nearly everyone is 'controlled' by some kind of religion ... Judaism ... Hinduism ... Catholocism ... Protestantism ... Humanism ... Atheism ... Evolutionism ... Socialism ... Communism ... Capitalism ... etc ... etc!!!!

    ... so what's your 'ism' Robin???

    ... sounds like you might even have a number of them !!!:eek:


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    J C wrote: »
    Nearly everyone is 'controlled' by some kind of religion ... Christianity ... Humanism ... Atheism ... Evolutionism ... etc ... etc!!!!

    I'm not.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    GO_Bear wrote: »
    Hypocrite
    Is this an admission on your part???:confused::pac:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,327 ✭✭✭AhSureTisGrand


    I'm a slave to individualism


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by J C
    Nearly everyone is 'controlled' by some kind of religion ...


    Malty_T
    I'm not.:D
    ... ever look at your sig???...

    Quote:
    Militant Agnosticism : " I don't know and you don't either!"


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    I'm a slave to individualism
    ... and Luciferianism???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭himnextdoor


    J C wrote: »
    Nearly everyone is 'controlled' by some kind of religion ... Judaism ... Hinduism ... Catholocism ... Protestantism ... Humanism ... Atheism ... Evolutionism ... Socialism ... Communism ... Capitalism ... etc ... etc!!!!

    ... so what's your 'ism' Robin???

    ... sounds like you might even have a number of them !!!:eek:

    What is important is that we recognise our 'isms' and root out assumptions that result from them. Only then can intelligent scientific debate proceed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,320 ✭✭✭dead one


    J C wrote: »
    Nearly everyone is 'controlled' by some kind of religion ... Judaism ... Hinduism ... Catholocism ... Protestantism ... Humanism ... Atheism ... Evolutionism ... Socialism ... Communism ... Capitalism ... etc ... etc!!!!

    ... so what's your 'ism' Robin???

    ... sounds like you might even have a number of them !!!:eek:
    ;)

    resize_More_funny_Evolution_pics-s304x264-51750-580.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    What is important is that we recognise our 'isms' and root out assumptions that result from them. Only then can intelligent scientific debate proceed.
    I fully agree ... so can you 'root out' your materialistic assumption that because we exist, that exclusively materialistic processes must necessarily have brought us into existence ... and, for my part, I will be (indeed I have always been) open to materialistic explanations for our 'origins' and/or our supposed 'evolution from Pondkind to Mankind'... the only problem is that all of the mechanisms proposed to date don't stand up to scientific scrutiny.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    dead one wrote: »
    ;)

    resize_More_funny_Evolution_pics-s304x264-51750-580.jpg
    ... freaks of his imagination!!!:)


  • Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... freaks of his imagination!!!:)

    powerful imagination if it physically manifests itself :P

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Taken from the issue of New Scientist I picked up today.
    Love takes many forms. Members of the Fore tribe of Papua New Guinea used to believe that when someone died, their loved ones should eat every bit of the body. The daugthers ate the brain and sometimes fed tidbits to their children (Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society, vol 363, p 3721).

    This tradition led to the spread of degenerative brain disease called kuru. Like Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, it is caused by a rogue prion protein that accumulates in the brain. Kuru killed nearly all the young women in some villages. But a few did not succumb. They were the descendants of a person born around 200 years ago with an unusual mutation in the prion protein that stops it going rogue. As kuru became widespread, the mutation rapidly became more common. Half of the women in the areas most affected now carry the mutation, which has not been found anywhere else in the world. If the tradition of cannibalism had not been stopped in the 1950s, it would have become even more common among the Fore (New England Journal of Medicine, vol 361, p 2056).

    The emergence of kuru resistance is one of the clearest examples of very rapid human evolution but it is far from the only one. Around 3000 years ago, the ancestors of the Tibetans split from the population that give rise to the Han people of China. As soon as they began living at altitude, the population began to adapt. While some of the adaptations are a result of living in the mountains - a bit like altitude training in athletes - some are genetic.

    One variant in a gene controlling the production of red blood cells, for instance, is found in 78 per cent of Tibetans but just 9 per cent of Han people. And the process has not stopped. "We think the selection process is ongoing," says Rasmus Nielsen of the University of California, Berkeley, who led the study (Science, vol 329, p 75).

    More evidence comes from a study of Tibetan women living above 4000 metres. Those with high-levels of oxygen in the blood had 3.6 surviving children on average, whereas those with low oxygen levels had just 1.6 due to much higher infant mortality. That suggests the genetic variant thought to be responsible for higher blood oxygen levels is being passed on in greater numbers and becoming more common (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, vol 101, p 14300).

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    koth wrote: »
    Taken from the issue of New Scientist I picked up today.

    But they aren't going from one Kind to another Kind!!! :D:mad::mad::cool::pac::P:(:rolleyes::):D


  • Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    liamw wrote: »
    But they aren't going from one Kind to another Kind!!! :D:mad::mad::cool::pac::P:(:rolleyes::):D

    :P:D:pac:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    :P:D:pac:
    :P:D:pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    Taken from the issue of New Scientist I picked up today.
    All of these are examples of pre-existing Human genetic diversity manifesting itself and multiplying itself under selection pressure.
    Creation Scientists accept that Natural and Sexual Selection occurs ... its the origin of the genetic diversity that is selected that we disagree with Materialists on!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    powerful imagination if it physically manifests itself :P
    ... only if you are very very good ... and close your eyes ... and wish very very much!!!:D:):eek:


  • Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    All of these are examples of pre-existing Human genetic diversity manifesting itself and multiplying itself under selection pressure.
    Creation Scientists accept that Natural and Sexual Selection occurs ... its the origin of the genetic diversity that is selected that we disagree Materialists on!!!

    Afraid not, JC, if you actually read the text I posted you see that they are examples where a genetic mutation in a group of people due to their
    environment.

    But you can't concede that because it doesn't fit into your Creationist point of view.

    It is interesting though that you now contradict your previous contention that genetic diversity is bred out over the generations. How do you explain the mutation that appeared in the cannibal tribes? Or the mutation that gave the women of tribes in high altitudes a better chance for their children to survive their infancy?

    These weren't pre-existing traits, they are traits that were created due to a disease in the food-chain or a hostile environment.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    Afraid not, JC, if you actually read the text I posted you see that they are examples where a genetic mutation in a group of people due to their
    environment.

    But you can't concede that because it doesn't fit into your Creationist point of view.

    It is interesting though that you now contradict your previous contention that genetic diversity is bred out over the generations. How do you explain the mutation that appeared in the cannibal tribes? Or the mutation that gave the women of tribes in high altitudes a better chance for their children to survive their infancy?

    These weren't pre-existing traits, they are traits that were created due to a disease in the food-chain or a hostile environment.
    These traits were indeed Created (by God) ... but they only became evident when environmental pressures started selecting them.

    The mistake you are making is that you are confusing the selection of pre-existing genetic information with its creation!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    It is interesting though that you now contradict your previous contention that genetic diversity is bred out over the generations.
    Inbreeding causes genetic diversity to be eliminated ... but outbreeding and cross breeding maintains genetic diversity and vigour.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    These traits were indeed Created (by God) ... but they only became evident when environmental pressures started selecting them.

    The mistake you are making is that you are confusing the selection of pre-existing genetic information with its creation!!

    No, I'm not mistaken. If your idea was correct, the first problem that I have with it is, why did nearly all of the cannibal tribe nearly die before the trait activated itself. That would be mean that god did a truly bad job of installing the traits, as the failed to execute their design when called upon.

    The examples given in the text clearly disagree with your idea, and you just saying, "no, you're wrong, you don't understand." doesn't do anything to make me think otherwise.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    Inbreeding causes genetic diversity to be eliminated ... but outbreeding and cross breeding maintains genetic diversity and vigour.

    The Creation story in the Bible would mean that inbreeding started from the dawn of mankind. So, do you still maintain that genetic diversity should be eliminated as the generations progressed?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    The Creation story in the Bible would mean that inbreeding started from the dawn of mankind. So, do you still maintain that genetic diversity should be eliminated as the generations progressed?
    The original Humans were highly diverse genetically ... inbreeding has only become a problem as the genetic diversity of individuals decline.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    The original Humans were highly diverse genetically ... inbreeding has only become a problem as the genetic diversity of individuals decline.

    two humans were more diverse than thousands? That would still mean that the genetic diversity starts to decline from the first generation of humans.

    And this means lots of traits that we see in humans have to be ignored to reconcile with what you're suggesting.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    two humans were more diverse than thousands? That would still mean that the genetic diversity starts to decline from the first generation of humans.

    And this means lots of traits that we see in humans have to be ignored to reconcile with what you're suggesting.
    Two outbred dogs can be much more genetically diverse than thousands of pure-bred Poodles ... that's how genetic diversity works!!!!

    Most of the original Human genetic diversity is still here ... it's just dispersed throughout the population.


  • Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    that's all well and good, but to use your analogy, we started out with two poodles, not outbred dogs.

    You're just giving examples of scenarios that don't apply to the Creation story.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    that's all well and good, but to use your analogy, we started out with two poodles, not outbred dogs.

    You're just giving examples of scenarios that don't apply to the Creation story.
    ... but we didn't start out with inbred Humans ... Adam and Eve's genomes contained all of the basic genetic diversity of Mankind.


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  • Moderators Posts: 51,726 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... but we didn't start out with inbred Humans ... Adam and Eve's genomes contained all of the basic genetic diversity of Mankind.

    then their children would have had almost 100% chance of inheriting any number of fatal hereditary diseases since the parents both had the genes for those diseases.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



This discussion has been closed.
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