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RTÉNL Saorview-DTT Public Information

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    #2
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Interesting they say they planned to have HD in May 2011, but that the DCENR / BAI requirements for 2nd mux may put it back to 2012.

    Interfering at wrong level :(


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    #3
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    Interesting they say they planned to have HD in May 2011, but that the DCENR / BAI requirements for 2nd mux may put it back to 2012.

    Interfering at wrong level :(

    The Sept date is applicable to the RTÉjr/RTÉ Plus channel, not mentioned in relation to the HD channel. So will the second mux be available by 1st Sept for the RTÉjr/RTÉ Plus channel?
    1.1 Conditions under which Ministerial Consent is granted

    Conditions attaching to Specific Channels

    1. RTÉ Two HD Select channel is required to be carried on the second multiplex;

    2. The knowledge gained from technical trialling of the HD channel will be shared with other broadcasters;

    3. RTÉ should aim to provide for full HD versions of RTÉ One and RTÉ Two as soon as practicable and by mid 2013 at the latest;

    4. The RTÉjr/RTÉ Plus channel shall be carried on the first multiplex until 1 September 2011 and from 1 September 2011 shall be transferred to the second multiplex;

    5. No advertising is permitted on the RTÉjr or RTÉ News Now channel;

    6. In respect of RTÉjr and RTÉ News Now, RTÉ shall review Phase 2 of these channel proposals on foot of the suggestions set out in the public consultation in order to further enhance the public value of the channels.

    7. RTÉ Plus: Phase 1 only is approved and for a period of 4 years only until February 2014.


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    #4
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The FAQ confirms ASO is October 2012. Previously indicated by the BAI and the Minister
    2.1 When Will Analogue Switch Off (ASO) happen?
    The transmission of Analogue Terrestrial Television (ATT) will cease in October 2012, as mandated by the European Union and Irish Government.
    In the lead up to ASO captions will appear on screen on Analogue Terrestrial Television (ATT) transmissions informing ATT viewers of the impending switch-off of the service and the need to switch to an alternative source of TV (i.e. SAORVIEW).

    ...
    3.1
    Why Is Analogue Being Switched Off? The European Union has recommended the end of 2012 as the target date for analogue switch off in all member states and the Irish government have selected October 2012 as the date for Ireland.

    Analogue Teletext Switchoff at ASO or soon after
    All services (RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3, TG4) are currently transmitting traditional analogue EBU teletext on SAORVIEW. RTÉ is also transmitting an enhanced version of its Aertel teletext service in digital.

    No fixed date has been set by the broadcasters for switching off their traditional analogue EBU teletext services. It is likely that RTÉ and / or any other broadcaster that is transmitting a digital teletext service will discontinue transmitting their traditional analogue EBU teletext at Analogue Switch Off in October 2012 or soon afterwards.


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    #5
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    So "Freeview HD" stuff that ignores the TV3 and TG4 EBU text isn't a long term issue

    But has the Minister signed the SI or whatever for October 2012? (likely Midnight on 31st October 2012).

    We don't know when the 2nd Mux is available Nationally. Possibly RTE isn't sure from reading the HD part of FAQ.


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    #6
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    But has the Minister signed the SI or whatever for October 2012? (likely Midnight on 31st October 2012).

    We don't know when the 2nd Mux is available Nationally. Possibly RTE isn't sure from reading the HD part of FAQ.

    Will ASO require a Ministerial Order? In any case the ASO Steering Group within the Dept is probably dealing with that.

    The first 13 sites (12 main + Greystones?) are probably upgraded for 2/3 mux DTT already, how many of the other active DTT sites also have the second mux available?


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    #7
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I'm told until there is a signed date, it's not actually legally official.
    Ryan should have done it more than 2 years proir to the chosen date.

    So Sept/Oct 2010 or earlier something (SI? some other sort of Ministerial Order?) something should have been signed.


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    #8
    desaparecidos
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭desaparecidos


    The quality of the documents is not the best I'm afraid.

    Presentation is half the battle.


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    #9
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    desaparecidos wrote: »
    The quality of the documents is not the best I'm afraid.

    Presentation is half the battle.

    I agree, spelling and grammar mistakes too. Could do with a glossary for non-technical readers too. Has a look of being rushed to publication.


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    #10
    fat-tony
    Registered Users Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    I agree about the less than optimal presentation etc. of both documents, but was reluctant to comment as I thought they had been provided "outside" of RTENL by persons close to contributors on boards, perhaps? They have the appearance / style of documents authored by persons from a technical background - too much info, particularly in the "connecting a TV to Saorview" document. Needs editorial control and some simplification. Many instances of the word "loose" (as in not tight) instead of "lose". Or maybe I'm being overly picky?


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    #11
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    fat-tony wrote: »
    They have the appearance / style of documents authored by persons from a technical background - too much info, particularly in the "connecting a TV to Saorview" document. Needs editorial control and some simplification. Many instances of the word "loose" (as in not tight) instead of "lose". Or maybe I'm being overly picky?

    I thought the information provided in the "Connecting a Television Set to SAORVIEW" document was OK and covered all variations, can't see how you could make it simpler. (Why is almost all the text underlined in the doc?)

    Both docs look a little amateurish and need a professional hand. But no rush, we have a least 8 weeks to full launch and a whole 19 months to ASO :rolleyes:


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    #12
    jaggiebunnet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭jaggiebunnet


    fat-tony wrote: »
    IMany instances of the word "loose" (as in not tight) instead of "lose". Or maybe I'm being overly picky?

    that is the worst thing I hate in typo's is seeing loose instead of lose...so no I don't think you are being picky!


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    #13
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    jaggiebunnet wrote: »
    that is the worst thing I hate in typo's is seeing loose instead of lose...so no I don't think you are being picky!

    I hate typos too.


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    #14
    jaggiebunnet
    Registered Users Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭jaggiebunnet


    Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »
    I hate typos too.
    hehe - ok I meant spelling mistakes anyway :)


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    #15
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Link to the RTÉNL SAORVIEW FAQ's rev_1 removed from the RTÉNL website, rev_2 on the way?

    If anyone in RTÉNL is reading perhaps a reference to the digital aerial myth can be included in the next revision.- The 'digital' TV aerial myth ;)


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    #16
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    But has the Minister signed the SI or whatever for October 2012? (likely Midnight on 31st October 2012).
    The Cush wrote: »
    Will ASO require a Ministerial Order? In any case the ASO Steering Group within the Dept is probably dealing with that.
    watty wrote: »
    I'm told until there is a signed date, it's not actually legally official.
    Ryan should have done it more than 2 years proir to the chosen date.

    So Sept/Oct 2010 or earlier something (SI? some other sort of Ministerial Order?) something should have been signed.

    To answer my own question above - Section 139 (4) of the Broadcasting Act applies, Ministerial direction to Comreg to revoke the analogue TV Licences by a certain date will trigger ASO
    (4) The Minister may, at any stage or following consideration of
    a report under subsection (1)(b), issue a policy direction under
    section 13 of the Communications Regulation Act 2002 regarding
    the date or dates with effect from which the Communications Regulator
    shall revoke licences granted under section 121 or section 59 in
    respect of the provision of any of the services referred to in subsection
    (2) by analogue means.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2010/10/20/00031.asp


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    #17
    galtee boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    Saorview is supposed to officially launch in May 2011, somewhere presumably between 1st-31st ? So as it's only 7 weeks to 1st May and 11 weeks to 31st May, wouldn't it be about time we saw some adverts/promotional activity from RTE about Saorview ?


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    #18
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    galtee boy wrote: »
    Saorview is supposed to officially launch in May 2011, somewhere presumably between 1st-31st ? So as it's only 7 weeks to 1st May and 11 weeks to 31st May, wouldn't it be about time we saw some adverts/promotional activity from RTE about Saorview ?

    RTÉ appointed Cawley Nea\TBWA as its creative agency for the Saorview public campaign late 2010 / early 2011.

    Watty has posted that the publicity was to start in late Feb.

    With the late approval of the new RTÉ channels and the general election at the end of Feb the public information campaign probably got pushed back into March. The Minister is now in place so we may see it start in the coming weeks.


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    #19
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    The good news in today's Sunday Business Post is that the public information campaign is to start this week.


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    #20
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    icdg wrote: »
    The good news in today's Sunday Business Post is that the public information campaign is to start this week.

    Good news indeed.

    I speculated on Friday if it would happen this coming week following Digital Satellite TV post that the Triax TR112 certified receiver would be listed on the Saorview website from next week.

    Will other manufacturers' certified products be part of the launch?

    Tommy and PJ Advert campaign (Cartoon fat dog and skinny cat)


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    #21
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    The Post article (which takes up the most of page 23) only mentions the Walker brand - saying "RTÉ said it was confident that several more brands would arrive on the market shortly".


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    #22
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    See http://www.saortv.info/2011/03/13/information-campaign-to-start/


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    #23
    dowtchaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭dowtchaboy


    Some friends were round for dinner this evening. Told us that the analogue TV was being switched off soon and that we'd have to get Sky or cable 'cos that would be the only way to get digital!!!

    They got this "information" from Sky, it seems.

    I tried to enlighten them - but I suspect they don't believe me....:(:(


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    #24
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    icdg wrote: »
    The good news in today's Sunday Business Post is that the public information campaign is to start this week.
    RTE ready for big switch
    13 March 2011 By Catherine O'Mahony

    This week, RTE will commence the tricky job of persuading the Irish public to prepare for the shutdown of their old TV signal and the adoption of digital terrestrial television (DTT).

    Advertising for the Saorview service will begin on TV, radio and online. A national PR campaign will also be launched, as well as a communications campaign involving community groups and sports associations.

    A dedicated call centre has been set up in RTE to manage enquiries about the new service, and send out information brochures.

    A new information website, saorview.ie, has gone live, and will inform people whether their area is covered by the digital TV signal (RTE says 97 per cent of Ireland will be covered by the end of May), and advise on what equipment people need to receive it.

    The campaign will run until late 2012,whenthe present analogue TV signal will be switched off and replaced by a digital alternative.

    The ads, created by Cawley Nea\TBWA, feature an animated cat and dog which will explain the new service and how to access it.

    The target market is a large one. Almost 600,000 Irish households receive some TV service via an aerial/analogue signal.

    Of these, more than half exclusively rely on an aerial.

    Older people are more likely to rely on the old service, with 28 per cent of over-55s having no cable or satellite TV. The western seaboard is also disproportionately affected.

    If they don’t take some action, their TV screens will go blank when the change is made.

    It’s also likely that some people who have cable subscriptions might drop them for financial reasons in favour of Saorview.

    In the last year, 46,000 Irish households have switched to free-to-air satellite services to access non-Irish channels, bringing the total using these services to 162,000, or 10 per cent of the market.

    Mary Curtis has been appointed director of digital switchover at RTE.

    She said the communications job was complicated by the fact that most people had no idea they currently received an analogue signal, so the prospect of losing one meant nothing to them.

    But she said it was also clear from research that Irish people still loved Irish television, so demand should be keen for Saorview, which is the brand name for the free-to-air service.

    As it stands, Saorview’s TV offering is limited to RTE One, RTE Two, TV3,TG4, 3e and a few repackaged RTE services: RTE Plus (RTE One plus one hour’s delay), RTE News Now and RTE Junior (extended children’s programming).

    High definition programming will be shown for the first time on RTE Two.

    The standard TV offering will also include an on-screen programming guide for the first time.

    Applications are being sought for additional TV content, which has to be of a public service nature. RTE’s ten radio stations (including the digital ones) will also be on the service.

    Anyone who wants to receive Saorview will either have to buy a television that can receive the new signal (these are already in the shops and cost from around €180 for a small set), or buy a set-top box that will link with their existing television (these are also in the shops, and the first model costs €100).

    RTE has been quick to emphasise that, after that, no further costs apply, other than the user’s licence fee.

    RTE has set up a Saorview display centre in Dublin, where the various set-top boxes and TV sets that can receive the service will be on view.

    So far, just one Irish company, Walker, has produced a suitable set-top box, but RTE said it was confident that several more brands would arrive on the market shortly.

    The box on sale now does not function as a personal video recorder, but this facility should be included in future models, so users can record live TV.

    The box which is needed to receive the Irish free-to-air digital signal is not the same as British set-top boxes.

    RTE is working with sports organisations, charities and community groups, as well as retailers and manufacturers, to make sure the correct equipment is made available to the public. Approved technology will carry a sticker saying it has been ‘Saorview approved’.

    The job of alerting the public to the development has fallen solely to RTE, since efforts to establish a commercial backer for digital television have failed.

    RTE is hoping to run ads on all TV channels in addition to normal commercial minutage, because of the importance of the public service information.

    http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MEDIA-AND-MARKETING-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=55027-qqqx=1.asp

    New Information in the article
    - Dedicated RTÉ Call Centre for enquiries and brochures
    - RTÉ Saorview Display Centre in Dublin, displaying products and available services
    - RTÉ working with various organisations - sports bodies, charities and community groups (and retailers/manufactures) on Saorview communications campaign
    - Public Service Information Ad campaign on all channels (in addition to normal commercial minutage), created by Cawley Nea\TBWA featuring animated cat and dog (Tommy and PJ) to explain the service and how to get it.
    MEDIA WORLD
    What you need to know about Saorview

    13 March 2011 By Catherine O'Mahony

    RTE is set to tell us all about digital terrestrial television this week, as a new information website about the service, Saorview.ie, goes live. To get a head-start, here’s what you should know.

    What is DTT?
    Digital Terrestrial Television. It’s a new digital TV signal that will replace the old TV service accessed via an aerial.The more important term to know is Saorview, which is what the free-to air service will be called.

    RTE says you’ll need to make absolutely sure any new TV equipment you get has been Saorview approved, or you might not get the service properly.

    Why do I need to bother?
    Because on some as-yet unspecified date towards the end of 2012, Saorview will be the only show in town for those who, for geographical reasons, can’t access (or don’t want, or can’t afford) cable or satellite TV. It will be a possible rival for pay TV services for the budget-conscious. But without quite so many channels.

    I am happy to pay another cable/satellite provider, and I definitely still want hundreds of TV channels. Does that mean I can ignore all this?
    Yes.

    Why is it happening at all?
    Europe’s TV market is going digital, and Ireland is switching off the old TV signal next year. So there has to be a new kind of public broadcasting television service. Saorview is it.

    Doesn’t everyone have digital TV already?
    Not by a long shot. A fifth of households are wholly reliant on an aerial. Nearly 600,000 (37 per cent) use an aerial for at least one TV set. Forty six per cent of farmers use an aerial and nearly a third of people over 55.

    How will the signal be switched off?
    You don’t really need to know that (also, I have no idea). You may, however, need to know if your area is not covered by the DTT signal yet. RTE says 97 per cent of us will be covered by the end of May. If you check on Saorview.ie, from next week it should tell you. Then you can decide what to do.

    What have I got to decide?
    Saorview will start to become available from May if you want it. But if you want to be an early bird, you need to either buy a specially adapted TV to get it, or buy a Saorview set-top box to use with your existing TV, plus an aerial.

    Should I act soon?
    Most of us won’t. If you are a diehard sports fan, you might want to get your hands on Saorview this year, because the service will feature the All-Ireland hurling and football finals in high definition, as well as the Rugby World Cup.

    So, to sum up, I would need an HD TV and a set-top box and an aerial or a special TV that’s also HD with an aerial?
    Yes. The TV s called an integrated digital television, or iDTV.

    And my old aerial should work?
    In the vast majority of cases, RTE says. Adjustments, and new aerials, will be needed in some cases.

    What channels will be available?
    It’s not definite yet. All Irish content so far, and all familiar names. At a minimum there will be RTE 1, RTE 2 (with HD), TV3, 3e, TG4, RTE 1 Plus (RTE 1 with one hour’s delay), a kids’ TV channel called RTE Junior and a rolling news channel called RTE News Now. Also all the RTE radio channels (ten of them, including the digital ones) and a fancier digital version of Aertel. More content may be added, and it could be from overseas, as long as it is of a public service nature.

    I thought there was going to be an Oireachtas channel?
    There still could be if anyone wants to produce one. There is space on the service for one. There’s also space for a channel showing Irish films, but RTE hasn’t developed that either.

    What if I want only terrestrial channels, including the BBC?
    It is possible to combine Saorview with other free toair or pay TV services currently available in Ireland, whether they are terrestrial, cable or satellite, to give you access to non-Irish TV channels and services, from the BBC, ITV, Channel 4, etc. If you are interested in doing this, RTE suggests you take advice from specialist retailers or competent local TV installers for information on equipment and installation.

    Will it be really expensive?
    It could be for some people. If you have to install a brand new aerial and then buy a new television, and you go for a high-end model, it will be. Also, you will need a box and an aerial connection for every TV set using the service, so that might be expensive.

    It’ll cost less if you just get one set-top box. Currently it costs around €100 for a box (the only one on sale is from an Irish brand called Walker) that doesn’t allow you to record live television, but it’s more or less a dead cert that the price will drop as more brands start to produce them. And you still pay a licence fee.

    What about pensioners/ people on social welfare?
    Will they have to pay this sort of money?
    It’s not clear yet if they’ll get state aid. RTE says it is not its remit to provide financial aid. So the new government will have to decide.

    http://www.thepost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=MEDIA-AND-MARKETING-qqqs=mediaandmarketing-qqqid=55026-qqqx=1.asp


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    #25
    Digital Satellite TV
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭Digital Satellite TV


    Good news indeed, couldn't tell you the amount of emails and calls we get from people confusing freeview, freesat, saorview, free to air etc....Will be good to have that info be pumped into peoples homes through various media. I might take saorview off that list for us anyway:)


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    #26
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Nice to see a newspaper get the facts and explanations about right. Unusual.


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    #27
    dowtchaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭dowtchaboy


    The Cush wrote: »
    - Public Service Information Ad campaign on all channels (in addition to normal commercial minutage), created by Cawley Nea\TBWA featuring animated cat and dog (Tommy and PJ) to explain the service and how to get it.
    Tommy and PJ???? They could surely have called them something more appropriate like Wattie & Cushie? :)


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    #28
    Kensington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    The campaign kicks off on St. Patrick's Day, this Thursday.


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    #29
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    dowtchaboy wrote: »
    Tommy and PJ???? They could surely have called them something more appropriate like Wattie & Cushie? :)

    You wouldn't suggest that if you have seen the characters. No-one would want to be associated with that Fat dog and skinny cat. :D

    There is actually a nearly 20 year old Comic Strip, Tommy & PJ, But Tommy is a Venusian boy and PJ his "dragon" pet I think.

    I was only having a bit of fun with the image to brighten up http://www.saortv.info/2011/03/13/information-campaign-to-start/ Is there an official source confirming it's actually the 17th March the Campaign starts rather than simply "this week"?


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    #30
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    watty wrote: »
    Nice to see a newspaper get the facts and explanations about right. Unusual.

    They got it wrong in another media article that issue though...

    Incidently I'd prefer if people linked to articles rather than reposting them - you are breaking copyright law by doing so and also depriving the newspaper of revenue from advertising on its website.


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    #31
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Two articles in today's Irish Times on the rollout of the advertising campaign. In the first article not a lot new other than quotes from RTÉ's Mary Curtis (Director of Digital Switchover) and Rory Coveney (Digital Switchover’s communications manager). The usual criticism from TV3's CEO, David McRedmond.
    The blurred future of Ireland's digital plans

    MICK HEANEY

    Tue, Mar 15, 2011

    It’s been years in coming, and will cost €70 million, but RTÉ is finally ready to unveil its digital service. As Ireland phases out the analogue era, will the five new channels offer anything fresh – and will most of us even notice?

    ...

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2011/0315/1224292152903.html

    One interesting piece of information from the article relates to 3e, it may not be there at launch
    As it is, TV3 has yet to confirm whether its sister channel, 3e, will be broadcast on Saorview. “We have to pay [Saorview] for transmitting 3e, so there’s a question mark over the viability of putting up channels,” McRedmond says.

    The UK channels will not be on Saorview
    Nor has Saorview any plans to carry UK channels, such as fellow public broadcaster the BBC. “I can’t see a scenario where the BBC would be applying to be on Saorview because they would have separate carriage arrangements with other platforms,” such as Sky and UPC, says Curtis.

    and the usual from TV3
    We’re horrified by them, we think it’s a joke,” says McRedmond. “We’re going to be the only country in Europe with eight state channels. This is madness at a time when the State can barely afford two channels.”
    ...
    “The case is marginal for DTT, because it is so late,” says McRedmond.
    ...
    But with its suite of new stations, RTÉ has a head start. The manner in which Pat Carey, the outgoing, caretaker Minister for Communications, approved the new channels two days before the election alarms McRedmond: “It just stinks.” TV3 has written to Pat Rabbitte, the new communications minister, asking him to review the matter.

    The second article confirms the advertising campaign will begin on St Patrick’s Day, as posted yesterday by Kensington.
    Campaign begins on TV digital switchover

    RONAN McGREEVY

    Tue, Mar 15, 2011

    A PUBLIC awareness campaign for Saorview, the digital terrestrial television service, will begin on St Patrick’s Day.

    ...

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0315/1224292162812.html

    The article quotes RTÉ’s digital switchover spokesman Rory Coveney, that there will be three stages to the public awareness campaign
    says there will be three stages to the awareness campaign. The first will introduce the public to Saorview, the second will start in May when it becomes fully operational and the final phase will stress the countdown until the digital switchover.

    and guess who again
    TV3 has written to the Minister for Communications Pat Rabbitte urging him to review the decision to grant RTÉ licences to operate new channels. Chief executive David McRedmond said the decision by former minister Pat Carey two days before the general election was a “disgrace”.

    Mr McRedmond suggested RTÉ did not have the resources to operate five new channels when it was running a deficit. He did not believe the new RTÉ channels would be anything other than repackaged materials. He believed they would cost the broadcaster substantially more money.


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