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DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

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    #1712
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    Ok lads, I'm not to techie as far as DVB-T/DVB-T2 standards are concerned so forgive me if this questions is stupid.

    Could they broadcast lets say SD in DVB-T and HD in DVB-T2 at the same time from the same transponder/mux ? Is that what the do in the UK ?


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    #1713
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    surf board wrote: »
    Article in broadbandandtvnews.com today;

    "In the absence of a commercial player a working group has been established to set the necessary technical standards. Ryan said receivers, which will run MPEG-4, DVB-T2, are ready to go. They will be tested by Sweden’s Teracom and comply with specifications set out by the Scandinavia standards body NorDig."

    Full article here
    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2010/06/03/ryan-ireland-will-meet-dtt-deadlines/


    No memtion of T2 in the article.


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    #1714
    scath
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Apogee wrote: »
    You can believe what you want. The standard has already been defined.

    T2 not in the article but DVB-T2 in the article which is one and the same thing. Forgive my laziness. I shall refer to it as DVB-T2 hereon in for the benefit of newer posters.

    It has correct. You're correct Apogee. But that standard is 2 years old and launch has not occurred. The Minister is talking about clarifying regulations. But you believe that they are already defined which is true. If he is clarifying them what then does that mean? Does it mean he is considering changing them to T2? I think before you were right, was conjecture and dreamland. But now I think its possible they may change the spec. So lets wait and see & not get hung up on it in the meantime. Just is pain in arse for those that bought. Also will be be for those with trial boxes but then commercial dTT didn't get going as planned, only 1,000 boxes, tests enjoyed so can't blaim dept on that if is changed to DVB-T2.

    For now lets all assume its DVB-T and MPEG4 and that change to DVB-T2 is a possibility but no more than that as not clarified til later okay. Truce all lol til we hear otherwise. Good apogee?


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    #1715
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    If most of the gear already installed is T2 capable (And it's only the modulators, not the feeds/ backhaul, PAs, mast feeds and Aerials), then it might make sense to have as our entry level what ever the UK HD DTT DVB-T2 spec is.


    I did warn people, consistently and often over the last 5 years to buy nothing especially for Irish DTT before official launch unless you prepared to take risk of it useless. Some people didn't listen on MPEG2 vs MPEG4. At least UK MPEG4 T2 gear receives the existing DVB-T MPEG4 "tests" even if MHEG or some other small feature may not be 100% compatible.


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    #1716
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    No memtion of T2 in the article.

    The artical has been edited it did say "Ryan said receivers, which will run MPEG-4, DVB-T2, are ready to go." now reads "Ryan said receivers are ready to go"


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    #1717
    scath
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    The artical has been edited it did say "Ryan said receivers, which will run MPEG-4, DVB-T2, are ready to go." now reads "Ryan said receivers are ready to go"

    Yip...I contacted...is checking on that thus has been edited. Off to catch a bus! later ;D


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    #1718
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    Ok lads, I'm not to techie as far as DVB-T/DVB-T2 standards are concerned so forgive me if this questions is stupid.

    Could they broadcast lets say SD in DVB-T and HD in DVB-T2 at the same time from the same transponder/mux ? Is that what the do in the UK ?

    No. The T1 and T2 are the encoding of the mux, so that error correction and sync signals are embedded. T2 is a more elaborate version of T1, and is a superset of T1. The mux is either encoded using T1 or T2.

    The multiplexed signals are each seperately encoded to compress the data, using either MPEG 4 or MPEG 2. The data compression is a seperate level.

    The HD/SD is to do with the data itself, and can be transmitted in T1 or T2, and MPEG 2 or MPEG 4. It is possible to have SD MPEG 4 T2 transmission, or HD MPEG 2 T1.

    Benefits of T2 over T1 is greater bitrates. The benefit of MPEG 4 over MPEG 2 is greater compression, and HD gives higher definition.

    As a result of this say 10 TV channels can be carried in the same spectrum as 1 UHF analogue channel, with those digital channels capable of error free reception. The specification for the quality of digital is set by the broadcast parameters used. The channel will always give the perfect result, assuming enough signal is received. In analogue, the signal degrades at every step, with noise creeping into the signal. A poor digital signal gives nothing when the signal goes below a threshold, a poor analogue signal gives ever increasing snow.

    I hope that helps. Sorry if it is the Ladybird explanation.


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    #1719
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    No. The T1 and T2 are the encoding of the mux, so that error correction and sync signals are embedded. T2 is a more elaborate version of T1.........................

    .....I hope that helps. Sorry if it is the Ladybird explanation.

    Thanks for that reply Sam
    watty wrote: »
    I did warn people, consistently and often over the last 5 years to buy nothing especially for Irish DTT before official launch unless you prepared to take risk of it useless. Some people didn't listen on MPEG2 vs MPEG4.

    I heard you, I just didn't listen :)

    TBH if it does go DVB-T2 I'm not going to lose much, I slapped a 20 Euro DVB-T card in my HTPC and being using that for over 2 years.

    Which bring me on to the subject is there any DVB-T2 PC TV cards out yet?


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    #1720
    Fr0g
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Fr0g


    Stand by for noobie question:

    I bought a telly recently It is showing all irish DTT channels including HD test. I don't know if it is DVB-T or T2. If Irish DTT goes with T2 this is not compatible with DVB-T sets/stb's correct?

    How can I tell if my tv is T2 compatible. There is no mention of it in the manual.

    Thanks


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    #1721
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    1) Yes, non t2, basic DVB-T even if HD doesn't work on T2 at all.
    2) If it works on T2, it's compatible. :) Email Manufacturer? Google?


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    #1722
    FREETV
    Registered Users Posts: 1,673 ✭✭✭FREETV


    I knew that a change of spec was on the cards and that is why I bought two of the "Sagem Picnic Boxes" in Currys in Newry last September because I didn't want to regret buying an expensive combi box or digibox that wouldn't be compatible when they finally decided on the spec before testing boxes and finally launching the service. I copped on to the fact that after they began the trials using MPEG2 decoding and then changed to Mpeg4 in August 2008 as far as I remember, that they could do the same thing again and would go with the latest technology. It makes far more sense to go with the T2 spec and HD and follow the UK. Watty did warn us all. I feel bad for those who paid out good hard earned money on IDTVS, combi boxes and then they may not work in the near future without upgrading to another box.


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    #1723
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The idTVs are not an issue really because:
    1) Tuner a small part of price
    2) You need a dual tuner setbox to sensibly record via HDD. No more VHS or cheap DVDRs with analogue tuners.


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    #1724
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    I emailed Eamon Ryan earlier on the subject see content below - (please excuse some of my non technical writing)

    " FOA Minister Ryan,

    Can the minster please clarify a comment in a recent press release regarding the broadcasting standard for the upcoming Irish Free-to-Air DTT service Saorview . The minister has been quoted as saying that the Free-to-Air DTT digital receivers are "receivers, which will run MPEG-4, DVB-T2, are ready to go".

    According to the RTE_NL website on the minimal requirement for the RTÉ Free-to-Air DTT Receivers states DVB-T as the broadcast reception standard in line with the specificions set out in NorDig Unified ver 2.0. equipment requirements - http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/RTE-FTA-DTT-Receiver-Spec.pdf Many people have already invested in equipment that meets the standards as documented by RTE_NL and they are now worried that their investment is wasted and thier equipment is useless, DVB-T equipment will not receive DVB-T2 broadcasts."


    I just got this response from Susan Fleming I assume working from his department :)

    " Hi John,

    The Irish RTE receivers are MPEG 4 ( Nordig ) DVB-T and there are no plans to move to DVB-T2. The press article contained a typo.

    FYI, I understand that MPEG 4 DVBT2 has been adopted in the UK for their HD DTT services.

    Best Regards

    Susan Fleming

    Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources

    29-31 Adelaide Road,

    Dublin 2 "


    Happy Days Again !:D


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    #1725
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    It would be disappointing if they move to T2.

    There is no need to move to T2 in terms of the extra capacity it allows. There simply isn't the number channels to fill the space.

    Edit: Seems T2 was a typo.


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    #1726
    reslfj
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭reslfj


    FREETV wrote: »
    It makes far more sense to go with the T2 spec and HD and follow the UK. Watty did warn us all.

    The Republic of South Africa will likely drop the DVB-T standard.
    http://www.techcentral.co.za/sa-set-to-abandon-digital-tv-standard/14727/ and use the Japanese standard ISDB-T or DVB-T2.

    One interesting paper from the organisation SADIBA lists factory prices (from China) for equivalent MPEG-4/HE-AAC SD STB's using either DVB-T, DVB-T2 and ISDB-T transmissions. (table 1)

    DVB-T $45
    DVB-T2 $55

    So today - when the first production DVB-T2 chips is not yet 6 months old - a DVB-T2 STB seems only $10 or 20% more expensive than the equivalent DVB-T2 STB.
    In Europe all STB's will of cause have to be HD compatible, but that relates to the MPEG-4 decoder chip only - not the DVB transmission chips.

    Lars :)

    PS! If ZA selects ISDB-T it can only be for (Brazilian related) political reasons - it is not a better standard.


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    #1727
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,517 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    reslfj wrote: »
    The Republic of South Africa will likely drop the DVB-T standard.
    http://www.techcentral.co.za/sa-set-to-abandon-digital-tv-standard/14727/ and use the Japanese standard ISDB-T or DVB-T2.

    One interesting paper from the organisation SADIBA lists factory prices (from China) for equivalent MPEG-4/HE-AAC SD STB's using either DVB-T, DVB-T2 and ISDB-T transmissions. (table 1)

    DVB-T $45
    DVB-T2 $55

    So today - when the first production DVB-T2 chips is not yet 6 months old - a DVB-T2 STB seems only $10 or 20% more expensive than the equivalent DVB-T2 STB.
    In Europe all STB's will of cause have to be HD compatible, but that relates to the MPEG-4 decoder chip only - not the DVB transmission chips.

    Lars :)

    PS! If ZA selects ISDB-T it can only be for (Brazilian related) political reasons - it is not a better standard.

    As I read the first link above I wondered why the Chinese aren't pushing their standards in Africa considering the level of Chinese investment on the continent in recent times but of course its obvious they'll end up manufacturing most of the equipment no matter which standard is chosen.


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    #1728
    scath
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    This is where the website now needs to be updated to clarify things like that. The way the Minister was sounding was like he was considering that. Sounds like we're sticking with an in between standard. Dunno if they're doing the right thing. Would it not be better go with the UK standard? I know people have gone out and bought equipment they feel might be useless. But that's not a good enough reason for everyone else not get the latest and lower energy consumption for RTÉ etc. But I guess its cheaper for moment to stay as is and I can understand the usage concerns. But if its DVB-T MPEG4, so be it. I'm not going to keep on about DVB-T2. I accept it and that's it. At that rate, sounds like the combo is the best way to market it for Saorview.


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    #1729
    slegs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭slegs


    scath wrote: »
    This is where the website now needs to be updated to clarify things like that. The way the Minister was sounding was like he was considering that. Sounds like we're sticking with an in between standard. Dunno if they're doing the right thing. Would it not be better go with the UK standard? I know people have gone out and bought equipment they feel might be useless. But that's not a good enough reason for everyone else not get the latest and lower energy consumption for RTÉ etc. But I guess its cheaper for moment to stay as is and I can understand the usage concerns. But if its DVB-T MPEG4, so be it. I'm not going to keep on about DVB-T2. I accept it and that's it. At that rate, sounds like the combo is the best way to market it for Saorview.

    90% of UK DTT will be MPEG2 for a long long time to come so we are well ahead when you look it like that. The HD service will take years and years if ever to get to numbers even close to a full swap out to to MPEG4/DVB-T2.


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    #1730
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,517 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    From today's Sunday Business Post
    RTE set for free-to-air DTT launch before 2012
    06 June 2010 By Catherine O'Mahony

    Despite delays of the launch of the commercial digital terrestrial television (DTT), it seems Ireland will have such a service in time for the switch-off of the analogue signal in 2012.

    It’s understood RTE has made advanced preparations to launch a free-to-air DTT service with as many as ten channels, several of which will be exclusive to the DTT platform. The necessary DTT transmission network is expected to be in place for 90p er cent of the country by October 31.

    After an initial test period, a partial public launch of DTT should follow next year. A full service will be rolled out to 98 per cent of households before December 31, 2012, when the analogue TV signal will be shut off for good.

    It’s understood that RTE is proceeding on the basis that there will be no commercial DTT service operating in tandem with it, and that it is confining its preparations for now to the needs of a public servicebased DTT.

    Under discussion for inclusion in the new package are new digital TV channels such as a rolling news channel similar to the RTE News Now service that is already available online and as an iPhone app, possibly a children’s television channel and a long-heralded Oireachtas channel.

    The basic package of terrestrial channels RTE One, RTE Two,TV3 and TG4 will be included.

    RTE’s full suite of digital radio stations will also be part of the package.

    It’s understood that RTE is determined to add new services to try and encourage the public to pay for the set-top boxes needed to access the new technology, in the absence of a commercial DTT service.

    Communications minister Eamon Ryan was asked last week about the future for the DTT project in the Dáil in the wake of the failure to find a commercial licensee for the project.

    He said preparations were advanced at RTE and that testing would start in October.

    Ryan added that there was ample time to tell the public about what would happen and to organise set-top box distribution between now and 2012.

    ‘‘It will be tight," he said. ‘‘but it will be up in October."

    Ryan also implied the set top boxes consumers would need to access DTT were already ready to go, but this may not be the case.

    According to informed sources, there are still some questions about what standard the new DTT set-top boxes will need to be, and this would affect their design and pricing. However, there is a designated testing service for any DTT boxes that manufacturers wish to produce.

    From a purely financial point of view, going it alone on DTT will suit RTE.

    Setting up a DTT service that’s only free-to-air is less costly than having to deal with a commercial operator as well.

    The initial projected cost to RTE of DTT transmission was well in excess of €100 million.

    In reality, the cost is now expected to be no more than €70 million.

    Interest in the subject remains muted. The Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) said last week it was already getting calls from the public wondering where to buy DTT boxes.

    However, there is still very little awareness among the general public that their analogue TV signals will be gone in less than three years, leaving them with no TV service at all, if they take no action. Once this becomes clear, public interest will rise.

    ‘‘We need to give people a good reason to take this service," said a senior RTE source.

    ‘‘A million people use the analogue service. We have to cater for them."

    RTE is proceeding with its DTT plans regardless of what happens with the floundering effort to establish a commercial, paid-for DTT service.

    The broadcaster, whose RTE NL division is devising the transmission network for DTT, has already substantially changed its network in expectation that there will be just two public service DTT multiplexes, and not six, as was originally envisaged.

    Given the time pressures RTE is facing, it now seems likely that the Irish public will get its first taste of DTT from RTE alone, and that any commercial service will have to be added at a later date.

    The BAI’s board held a meeting about DTT last Monday and has also been in talks with Ryan on where to go next with DTT.

    The BAI is supposed to license a commercial DTT operator, but its process failed after more than two years.

    Reviving it would take some time.

    Some points that stood out in the article
    "a partial public launch of DTT should follow next year. A full service will be rolled out to 98 per cent of households before December 31," 2012
    Partial public launch (testing) to 90% of the population by the end of Oct with the full launch by the end of Dec 2011. ASO by the end of Dec 2012.
    According to informed sources, there are still some questions about what standard the new DTT set-top boxes will need to be, and this would affect their design and pricing. However, there is a designated testing service for any DTT boxes that manufacturers wish to produce.
    Back to that DVB-T2 article again.
    From a purely financial point of view, going it alone on DTT will suit RTE.

    Setting up a DTT service that’s only free-to-air is less costly than having to deal with a commercial operator as well.

    The initial projected cost to RTE of DTT transmission was well in excess of €100 million.

    In reality, the cost is now expected to be no more than €70 million.
    I doubt very much that RTÉ would prefer to go it alone taking into consideration the amount of money already spent on commercial DTT equipment at the main transmitters and what an RTÉ spokesperson said recently following the ending of the BAI's commercial DTT process "a revised overall infrastructure plan will be prepared over the coming months".

    The estimated cost for the six multiplex network was initially estimated at €120 million but according to an RTÉ submission to a Dáil committee last year that figure had reduced to €111 million and was expected to reduce further, " we renegotiated with our suppliers in respect of the long-term contracts into which we are tied and we have elongated the project". Tougher market conditions would probably assist in reducing equipment costs also. So the €100 million plus figure was always going to be lower for the four multiplex service.

    Following the withdrawal of Boxer last year RTÉ said "this places us in a difficult position in the context of the amount of money we have been obliged to commit" and "if a commercial customer does not emerge in respect of the commercial MUXs, a decision will have to be made with regard to how the financing of the public service MUX would proceed".


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    #1731
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    I'd like to know to what standard the "informed sources" are referring to. Do they mean the broadcasting reception standard compatibility :- DVB-T, MHEG-5 etc or the build standard of the receivers, by that I mean things like the inclusion of CAS or CI slots making any STB future proof should a pay provider ever come on board.

    On their website in the paragraph where RTENL mention the compliance testing they still link/refer to NorDig-Unified specification v2.0. The Nordig test specification don't mention DVB-T2 at all - http://www.nordig.org/pdf/NorDig-Unified_Test_specification_ver_2.0.pdf. The email response I got from the Ministers department seemed very clear on the issue too.

    It would be nice to have all this speculation put to bed, hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later.


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    #1732
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    jobyrne30 wrote: »

    On their website in the paragraph where RTENL mention the compliance testing they still link/refer to NorDig-Unified specification v2.0. The Nordig test specification don't mention DVB-T2 at all - http://www.nordig.org/pdf/NorDig-Unified_Test_specification_ver_2.0.pdf. The email response I got from the Ministers department seemed very clear on the issue too.

    It would be nice to have all this speculation put to bed, hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later.

    From the Nordig spec.

    3.4 Terrestrial Tuner and Demodulator
    3.4.1 General
    The NorDig IRD shall include one tuner/demodulator for reception of signals from terrestrial
    transmitters, broadcasting in accordance with EN 300 744 [20].
    The digital transmissions may share frequency bands with other transmissions; successful reception will
    depend on e.g. network configuration, channel characteristics, time-varying interference from other
    "analogue" or "digital" transmitters and the receiver performance. The transmission networks of DVB-T
    may include single frequency networks (SFN).
    Comment: The possibility to receive DVB-T signals in MATV networks is optional for NorDig IRD
    with a terrestrial front-end. Such networks use a 7 MHz channel frequency raster in the VHF and an 8
    MHz raster in the UHF frequency range for analogue TV services. For re-distribuition of DVB-T
    signals it should be possible to maintain these rasters and to use only an 8 MHz raster.
    Note: DVB-T2 is being specified by DVB, but an ETSI standard is not assumed to be ready before
    2009. DVB-T2 will be considered when completed by DVB

    It is in there but only as a future upgrade, to be considered in 2009. So it is still possible. It could be included as a 'future proof' strategy.


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    #1733
    reslfj
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭reslfj


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    From the Nordig spec.

    It is in there but only as a future upgrade, to be considered in 2009. So it is still possible. It could be included as a 'future proof' strategy.

    You are quoting an obsolete document.

    The newest version is 2.1 and it has an addendum about DVB-T2 (v 1.0.1)
    http://www.nordig.org/new_specifications_19052010.htm

    The DVB-T2 has been part of the Nordig specs. for about 12 months now.

    Lars :)


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    #1734
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,517 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    reslfj wrote: »
    You are quoting an obsolete document.

    The newest version i 2.1 and it has an addendum about DVB-T2 (v 1.0.1)
    http://www.nordig.org/new_specifications_19052010.htm

    Lars :)

    The Irish spec is still based on the previous v2.0 - Minimum Receiver Requirements for Free-to-Air Digital Terrestrial Television for Radio Telefis Éireann, Additions and clarifications to NorDig Unified Requirements 2.0 (MPEG4 AVC, HDTV, MHEG5 etc).

    It will remain the spec until it's changed by RTÉNL.


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    #1735
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    From the Nordig spec.................It is in there but only as a future upgrade, to be considered in 2009. So it is still possible. It could be included as a 'future proof' strategy.

    Thanks Sam

    I'd seen DVB-T2 mentioned in the Unified version 2.0 spec documenton the RTENL site but I was refering/linking to the actual Test spec's on the Nordig site http://www.nordig.org/pdf/NorDig-Unified_Test_specification_ver_2.0.pdf , this doesn't include DVB-T2 within it's text.

    The Unified version 2.1 document includes DVB-T2, the corresponding test specs are the same as the test specs for the unified version 2.0 document but with an addendum for the DVB-T2 requirements - http://www.nordig.org/pdf/NorDig-Unified_Test_specification_for_DVB-T2_Addendum_ver_1.0.1.pdf.

    As I see it the nordig unified version 2.1 does not apply to RTENL and there is no requirement within the applicable test specs for DVB-T2 so it's not a requirement for Saorview. The unified document version 2.0 does mention DVB-T2 so maybe that's where all the confusion is coming from.

    Anyway that's just my opinion for what it's worth.


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    #1736
    reslfj
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭reslfj


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    ...there is no requirement within the applicable test specs for DVB-T2 so it's not a requirement for Saorview.

    This looks like the current status and all current plans seems to be for DVB-T.

    The specification mentioned in this post by The Cush has a link to a Teracom version (2.0 C) which may have additional relevant info for Ireland (but nothing about T2).

    The equivalent Teracom version 2.1.1 - where T2 is included - is valid "(in Sweden and Denmark)".

    Lars :)


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    #1737
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,517 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    reslfj wrote: »
    The specification mentioned in this post by The Cush has a link to a Teracom version (2.0 C) which may have additional relevant info for Ireland (but nothing about T2).

    The equivalent Teracom version 2.1.1 - where T2 is included - is valid "(in Sweden and Denmark)".

    All references to Ireland, Irish language and MHEG-5 pay DTT receiver requirements, included in v.C/2.0, were removed in v.D/2.1 (Dec 2009).

    I guess if pay DTT ever arrives the commercial operators' requirements can be added to the spec if they choose the Nordig spec.


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    #1738
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    The Unified version 2.1 document includes DVB-T2, the corresponding test specs are the same as the test specs for the unified version 2.0 document but with an addendum for the DVB-T2 requirements - http://www.nordig.org/pdf/NorDig-Unified_Test_specification_for_DVB-T2_Addendum_ver_1.0.1.pdf.

    2.1 dates from July 2009....while we were testing.

    http://www.nordig.org/pdf/NorDig-Unified_ver_2.1.pdf

    Nordig does not specify MHEG-5 , going with MHP 1.1 instead ( DVB-MHP ) and we could never rely entirely on Nordig for all our requirements.

    2.1 contains "Minimum requirements for reception of DVB-T2 signals" rather than a complete T2 standard from what I can see. The tricky bit is includes a PVR standard which requires MHP and will not work here.

    The PVR is a BIG problem as it is an MHP reliant functionality as far as I know. I do not see how we can adopt 2.1 and T2 to be honest given the MHP/PVR issue.


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    #1739
    scath
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    In terms of channel line up, 10 channels, hm...i see the childrens channel idea that I suggested to RTÉ some time ago might be taken up ie CulaDen bilingual. Kind of makes sense. That frees up RTÉ2 so no real need for RTÉ3 then. Can consist of archive and foreign programming. I am against +1 time channel wastage. A PVR does that.

    RTÉ1
    RTÉ2 reconfigured foreign programming
    TV3
    TG4 reconfigured with archive programming

    RTÉ News Now
    3e
    CulaDen Kids channel-bilingual
    Oireachtas Channel

    Irish Film Channel, DCTV, Cork City TV, P5TV timeshare.
    5TV-timeshare of City Channels Cork & Dublin, Channel South and some dating pre-recorded programming, shopping.

    Have emailed them City Channels. They already have the programming there so just a matter of branding and application to the BAI. They'd want to speak now to be in the mix for Saorview. They'd be the commercial alternative to the psb film channel, DCTV etc... That'd be 10 good channels eh with variety. TV3 with 2 channels probably have enough on their hands than going with a 3rd channel with looped news and documentaries which they could do with TV3 and turn 3e into the current TV3 style.


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    #1740
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Why would you reconfigure a perfectly good channels into services which wouldn't help employ anyone in the industry??? Why reconfigure either channel after all isn't Digital supposed to provide choice. surely an Archive service and a foreign service could be rolled out separately. TV3 needs to be reconfigured or re-licenced if anything.

    Anyway a list of channels is just dreaming they way DTT is being launched. We will be lucky to have any DTT at this rate.

    BTW RTÉ NL are working towards the 31/10/2010 launch date, DCERN and RTÉ NL confirmed this with me however they could explain the date of 31/12/10.


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    #1741
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I would see:

    RTE 1 HD
    RTE 2 HD
    TV3 - if they pay carriage
    TG4
    OTV - not 24/7
    RTE News Now - showing RTE Factual programmes.
    RTE Sport - showing live sport as required, sport news, highlights. Not 24/7
    3E - if they pay carriage.
    RTE The DEN childrens - possibly time share with RTE Sport.
    Community Access TV/ Education TV . Not 24/7

    There would be time shift between RTE News Now and RTE 1/ RTE 2. For example 'The Week in Politics' could be shown live (while it is recorded currently) on RTE News Now, and played as now on RTE1.



    This would require two muxes, but then they have them to spare.


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