Doctors cars - flashing green lights

Elessar · 31-05-2010 10:04pm #1

On my way to blanchardstown center yesterday a Doctor car passed me at speed and almost clipped me, with flashing green lights and siren.

I know flashing green lights have no basis in law (and technically are illegal?), so why do these cars have them? If it was known they would be used in emergencies, why were they not given blue lights?

Is it either a colossal mistake or unbelievable carelessness on the part of the HSE?

coolmoose · 31-05-2010 10:14pm

Elessar wrote: »

Is it either a colossal mistake or unbelievable carelessness on the part of the HSE?

was it a HSE ambulance service vehicle or a private GP co-op vehicle? If it was the latter, the HSE have no control over the marking or lighting of these vehicles. As regards the legality of the lights, this is a topic that has been beaten to death on various fora including here IIRC...

either way I don't see how it is carelessness or a "colossal" mistake...you'd surely see a flashing green light just as quickly as a flashing blue/red/amber one...

monkeysox · 31-05-2010 10:21pm

In most parts of the country those doctors cars are operated by GP out of hours coops which are generally private companies.
Outside of the cities the ambulance service would have traditionally called the GPs for serious stuff, namely cardiac arrests. Lately due to advances in pre-hospital care within the ambulance service this happens less often.
However, if someone phones whateverDoc for, lets say a febrile convulsion or a collapse or something, the GP service will refer it on to the ambulance service but would probably respond themselves too.

Green lights have no place in Ireland
GP coops have no place with lights & sirens

Elessar · 31-05-2010 10:23pm

coolmoose wrote: »

was it a HSE ambulance service vehicle or a private GP co-op vehicle? If it was the latter, the HSE have no control over the marking or lighting of these vehicles. As regards the legality of the lights, this is a topic that has been beaten to death on various fora including here IIRC...

either way I don't see how it is carelessness or a "colossal" mistake...you'd surely see a flashing green light just as quickly as a flashing blue/red/amber one...

It just said "Doctor", I didn't see any other markings. I assumed the HSE paid for it as it was probably one of the D-Doc cars. Maybe not.

I'm not debating whether you'd see them or not, nor whether they should be there! I'm asking why the lights are green since no other vehicles (bar coroners ambulances for some reason) have green flashing lights, they are not mentioned in the rules of the road, and I believe the law is clear enough that there shouldn't be any flashing lights that aren't blue, amber (or red/white?). Maybe someone more knowledgeable could clear that up.

I mean, why green? Blue is used to identify emergency services vehicles. Why not blue? Seems like whoever ordered the cars was not up to scratch on what lights should be on the vehicle, or didn't care either way.

monkeysox · 31-05-2010 10:25pm

Green because Doctors in the UK use green

end of story so...

sgthighway · 31-05-2010 10:42pm

ivabiggon · 31-05-2010 10:57pm

talk to joe:D

coolmoose · 31-05-2010 11:18pm

i would bet money it's not HSE. it's a GP coop car. they can put whatever lights they want on them, nothing to do with the HSE.

As regards legality, amber lights are also not supposed to be on tractors and pickup trucks AFAIK, but a blind eye is turned as it is presumed to be safer to allow you to see them. Same goes for the Doctor cars most of the time, common sense v letter of the law. Plus as monkeysox says, UK Doctor coop cars normally have green lights.

Sirens are a different matter though, never heard of one of the coop cars using a siren before.

When your post questioned the issue of carelessness or a colossal mistake I assumed it was relating to your ability to see them.

monkeysox · 31-05-2010 11:25pm

long before gp coops used green BASICS were using them. It is well established practice in UK,

it is legal for doctors in the UK to use green lights for emergencies.
some of the BASICS/HEMS cars have alternating blue and green 'take down' lights

Delancey · 31-05-2010 11:42pm

I don't wish to appear to be discouraging or stifling social intercourse and healthy debate but I have to ask : are we going to beat the s**t out of this subject yet AGAIN ?

01-06-2010 12:22pm

Aren't all HSE cars, much like their ambulances, etc. all painted the same way?

I believe that this belongs to HSE;

I assume every HSE DOC would have the same pattern/decals?

As for green lights... bit ofa non-issue, in my opinion.

cushtac · 01-06-2010 1:20pm

That's not a HSE vehicle.

01-06-2010 1:27pm

cushtac wrote: »

That's not a HSE vehicle.

Are you sure? I'm not entirely sure myself to be honest (which is why i wrote "I believe" it belonged to HSE). Found the lack of a HSE logo a bit odd.

That said, I was told by a few hospital staff that it belonged to the HSE, so I assume they'd know?

dmatty06 · 01-06-2010 2:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you sure? I'm not entirely sure myself to be honest (which is why i wrote "I believe" it belonged to HSE). Found the lack of a HSE logo a bit odd.

That said, I was told by a few hospital staff that it belonged to the HSE, so I assume they'd know?

the 1850 number on the side suggests a gp coop vehicle to me. so as said above hse has no say on markings etc

cushtac · 01-06-2010 2:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you sure? I'm not entirely sure myself to be honest (which is why i wrote "I believe" it belonged to HSE). Found the lack of a HSE logo a bit odd.

That said, I was told by a few hospital staff that it belonged to the HSE, so I assume they'd know?

I'm positive, it's not a HSE vehicle.

dmatty06 · 01-06-2010 2:30pm

quick google search shows its a NEDOC car i.e north eastern doctor on call so gp coop car as suspected so not truely hse, partly funded maybe im not sure but not a hse car.

01-06-2010 2:43pm

dmatty06 wrote: »

quick google search

Out of curiousity, what did you actually search for to find it?

I did a search for "HSE Doctor on call car" (in images, obviously) but all i got were two UK cars and the rest weren't even relating to what i searched for

Sitric · 01-06-2010 3:44pm

I´m more interested in how it works in practice, if they are not technically supposed to speed etc under green lights, do the guards stop them or give them an escort? Is it the doctor driving or a professional driver?

dmatty06 · 01-06-2010 4:42pm

googled the number on the side of the car

As for the lights they are only a warning signal and do not give any special rights at traffic lights etc. mainly theyre there for example if they are stuck behind a car on a 100km/hr road whos only doing 80km/hr so they can get passed. they are professional drivers who are mostly ex guards and the lights may only be switched on if the doctor deems it necessary i.e. cardiac arrest etc. the lights are quite rarely used. now i must say i only know that this is the case for SouthDoc in the cork area but presumably its similar for most coops. no sirens in southdoc cars

01-06-2010 5:39pm

dmatty06 wrote: »

they are professional drivers who are mostly ex guards

What proof is there of this? And even if they are professional they have no exemption under the Rules of the Road.

dmatty06 wrote: »

and the lights may only be switched on if the doctor deems it necessary i.e. cardiac arrest etc.

Legally the lights should never be switched on. Regardless of the incident being attended.

dmatty06 · 01-06-2010 5:44pm

foreign wrote: »

What proof is there of this? And even if they are professional they have no exemption under the Rules of the Road.

Legally the lights should never be switched on. Regardless of the incident being attended.

the proof is through my father who works with southdoc. i clearly stated the lights give them no exemption. and as for the legality debate on blue/green/purple lights etc has been done to death on here before so im not getting involved in another. i was clearly informing as to what happens in southdoc in answer to sitric's question.

Tango November. · 01-06-2010 6:39pm

cushtac wrote: »

That's not a HSE vehicle.

Totaly correct !! these cars are privately owned , ther are many types of cars but the hse one's would be the yellow coloured ones. These cars are not drove by dcotors they have drivers who maintan them .

The 1800 number is to a HSE nurse who they hangs around for 10 or 15 mins and thengets back to ya !

These cars carry a good bit of gaer.

Hooch · 01-06-2010 8:51pm

Elessar wrote: »

I'm not debating whether you'd see them or not, nor whether they should be there! I'm asking why the lights are green since no other vehicles (bar coroners ambulances for some reason) have green flashing lights, they are not mentioned in the rules of the road, and I believe the law is clear enough that there shouldn't be any flashing lights that aren't blue, amber (or red/white?). Maybe someone more knowledgeable could clear that up.

I mean, why green? Blue is used to identify emergency services vehicles. Why not blue? Seems like whoever ordered the cars was not up to scratch on what lights should be on the vehicle, or didn't care either way.

Blue and Yellow are the only flashing lights noted in legislation. This automatically means all other colours are illegal. There are several offences including a colour front facing, colour rear facing, flashing light seen from outside a vehicle etc.

South Doc, Shannon Doc, Doc on call etc are using illegal lights....simples. they do not have blues on their vehicles as are there is no exemption for them in law.....so they wrongfully believe they can use them green ones.

coolmoose · 01-06-2010 10:19pm

Tango November. wrote: »

The 1800 number is to a HSE nurse who they hangs around for 10 or 15 mins and then gets back to ya!

It's a practice nurse/telephone triage nurse hired by the GP coop you speak to, not a HSE nurse.

Sitric · 01-06-2010 11:59pm

nice guy always wrote: »

Blue and Yellow are the only flashing lights noted in legislation. This automatically means all other colours are illegal. There are several offences including a colour front facing, colour rear facing, flashing light seen from outside a vehicle etc.

South Doc, Shannon Doc, Doc on call etc are using illegal lights....simples. they do not have blues on their vehicles as are there is no exemption for them in law.....so they wrongfully believe they can use them green ones.

Do the guards stop them then or in effect is it allowed? Ignored?

Presumably the RTA would need to be changed to allow them to use blue lights?

msg11 · 02-06-2010 1:48am

Sitric wrote: »

Do the guards stop them then or in effect is it allowed? Ignored?

Presumably the RTA would need to be changed to allow them to use blue lights?

I know this is wrong to say, but if I was in a position and seen a doctor car going by using green lights. I wouldn't pull over the car, I would note down the car Reg and have words the next day about the driving. There's no point in putting someone's life at risk over light's on a car that's marked doctor. I would also bring this up at meetings on road safety.

In my world, I just pull in/move for green lights. As said, they wouldn't turn them on for no reason.

They should be trained and giving blues to be honest.

If your seriously injured the last thing you need to be told is we are going to have to get you to a hospital that's 20 miles away, because the Gardai pulled the doctor over cause of the lights on the car.

Just my two cents, will get taking out of the sky for the above comment.

sdanseo · 02-06-2010 2:17am

msg11 wrote: »

I know this is wrong to say, but if I was in a position and seen a doctor car going by using green lights. I wouldn't pull over the car, I would note down the car Reg and have words the next day about the driving. There's no point in putting someone's life at risk over light's on a car that's marked doctor. I would also bring this up at meetings on road safety.

In my world, I just pull in/move for green lights. As said, they wouldn't turn them on for no reason.

They should be trained and giving blues to be honest.

If your seriously injured the last thing you need to be told is we are going to have to get you to a hospital that's 20 miles away, because the Gardai pulled the doctor over cause of the lights on the car.

Just my two cents, will get taking out of the sky for the above comment.

On the contrary, that's the most common sense post I've seen here in a whle

Edit: Oooh, 3,000 posts. :P

02-06-2010 1:04pm

msg11 wrote: »

I know this is wrong to say, but if I was in a position and seen a doctor car going by using green lights. I wouldn't pull over the car, I would note down the car Reg and have words the next day about the driving. There's no point in putting someone's life at risk over light's on a car that's marked doctor. I would also bring this up at meetings on road safety.

Would you not pull them over, find out what the emergency is and maybe decide to take them in a Garda vehicle which can respond with blues and sirens??

msg11 wrote: »

If your seriously injured the last thing you need to be told is we are going to have to get you to a hospital that's 20 miles away, because the Gardai pulled the doctor over cause of the lights on the car.

If you are seriously injured you are going to the hospital anyway!

Delancey · 02-06-2010 1:17pm

foreign wrote: »

Would you not pull them over, find out what the emergency is and maybe decide to take them in a Garda vehicle which can respond with blues and sirens?

/QUOTE]

Surely a not very efficient use of a Garda car ? What happens if a Garda emergency arises while the car is used on a medical call ?

02-06-2010 1:19pm

delancey42 wrote: »

foreign wrote: »

Would you not pull them over, find out what the emergency is and maybe decide to take them in a Garda vehicle which can respond with blues and sirens?

/QUOTE]

Surely a not very efficient use of a Garda car ? What happens if a Garda emergency arises while the car is used on a medical call ?

Well seeing as how our primary role is the protection of life, where do you think our priorities lie?

cushtac · 02-06-2010 2:16pm

delancey42 wrote: »

Surely a not very efficient use of a Garda car ? What happens if a Garda emergency arises while the car is used on a medical call ?

The preservation of life is as much a Garda matter as anything else.

Doctors cars - flashing green lights

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