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DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    no.

    The Rights for what people will pay for for sport are too expensive to make a profit on DTT. ITV's DTT went bust trying that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭mjsmyth


    I disagree.... I think some form of pay tv could work on DTT, but probably in a different way to how OneVision envisage it.

    Imagine for a moment if you will that Setanta Sports DTT channel (if they make it) was offered for a very basic fee of between 5.99 to 9.99 a month. For that you got access to a few of their premiership matches everyweek, got access to their some of their rugby and so on. Perhaps even access to a PPV event.

    The channel would not be a clone of any of their satellite channels, but a mix designed to appeal to those who do not have sky.

    Personally, if an offer like that was made, I would take it. When added to the FTA Irish channels and the FTA British Channels it would give me everything I am after on tv.

    In otherwords, replicate the type of offer that Setanta have for users of Sky hardware, but change the package specs and lower the price to attract customers.

    People might balk at paying 21.99 a month for Setanta (it would appear so given their current troubles), but a couple of sports channels for under a tenner a month may well prove a winner.

    Having said that, it does not have to be Setanta, it could be Sky Sports doing it.

    Anyway, hats just my thoughts.

    mj


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Pay box office type TV channel for PPV sports and movies
    UK channels providing british programming i.e. none of the extra drivel we can produced them ourselves i.e. BBC 1, 2, UTV and C4.
    And Setanta/Sky Sports and Movies packages.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I think the only plausible package I saw in the bids was from RTE themselves for €10 with UK terrestrials and some kids and documentaries too .

    Unless you can supplement Sat and RTE by doing a lite version of what NTL and SKY charge around €23 a month for ....and I mean c.€9.99 ...then you do not have a business model for DTT in my opinion.

    You cannot compete at the premium end, too few channels .


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    What about this bit Watty , the rollout to the relay transmitters , yer Clonmels and Castlebars and Caslas is canned as well .



    I told ye that months ago did I not ?? We have 11 Main Transmitters ( incl Woodcock and Spur ) in various stages of on air tests and 2 relays done .

    That's it for a long time I feel . 2015 now seems reasonable as a completion date for the planned DTT rollout ...if even that .

    There was only to be 13 sites in 1st phase of Commercial DTT + PBS mux originally.

    There were I believe 3 phases. I'd quite agree that latter phases will now be delayed and and a full rollout by 2015 always looked dubious as there was no schedule for "full" coverage.

    Not the same a Doomed. If RTE & TG4 did real 4:3 instead of transmitting cropped WS on Analogue it would hardly matter.

    Digital Terrestrial has been "sold" to the public world wide as more channels and more choice, wheras in many cases there is less content that when there was 2 to 5 channels in each country. Cable and Satellite has Dumbed down and diluted commercial revenue for the traditional stations while we have now 400 channels each with less than 0.1% viewing time... Satellite & Cable is now the experience I had in USA in 1983 on cable. Full of junk.

    We know the real reason is for Governments to get extra revenue re-licencing the spectrum to people used to paying millions rather than getting it free(ish).

    Lets just drop the fiction of Irish Pay DTT, have extra spectrum for Broadband and the Government PAY RTENL to get it rolled out nationally in a year and subsidize Setboxes. The Government will still make a profit.

    MMDS & CAble (and Deflectors) started, not for USA style Multichannel but for BBC/ITV and later C4. Now these and Five and a lot more are free on a 50cm Dish and places that can't have dishes are mostly signed up to UPC anyway. DTT can't do UK TV for free yet can't do the minimum 120 channels needed to compter and beside mostly anyone that wants Pay TV has it already (UPC, Sky). So All IRish DTT can do is repalce the analogue Terrestrial Channels, which can't be free on Satellite anyway.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Broadcasting Bill returns to the Dail this week for Report and Final Stages.

    Reflecting the current economic situation within RTE the Minister has proposed amendments to the Bill in its current form relating to 90% population coverage of the PSB Mux by the end of the year.
    The Bill originally proposed (Sec. 130) at least 90% coverage by the end of the year
    (b) RTE´ shall—

    (i) ensure, in as far as practicable, that the national television
    multiplex referred to in paragraph (a) shall be
    established as a matter of priority and to such an
    extent as to be capable of achieving a free-to-air
    population coverage of—

    (I) by 31 December 2009, at least 90 per cent of such
    coverage as is
    , on the passing of this Act, available
    by free-to-air analogue means, and

    (II) by 30 September 2012, an extent similar to that
    such as is, on the passing of this Act, available
    by free-to-air analogue means,

    The Minister proposed an amendment (No. 113) to this in March - approximately 90% coverage of the population
    (i) ensure that the national television multiplex referred to in paragraph
    (a) shall be established as a matter of priority, and—

    (I) by 31 December 2009, be operational and available free-to-air to
    approximately 90 per cent of the population
    , and

    (II) by 31 December 2011, or such later date as may be specified by the
    Minister by order, be operational, available free-to-air and capable
    of providing coverage to the same extent as is, on the passing of
    this Act, available by free-to-air analogue means,

    The latest amendment (No. 113) publised last week - on such date as may be specified by the Minister by order ... to approximately 90 per cent
    of the population. The end of year target date is gone.
    (i) ensure that the national television multiplex referred to in paragraph
    (a) is established as a matter of priority, and—

    (I) on such date as may be specified by the Minister by order, is
    operational and available free-to-air to approximately 90 per cent
    of the population
    , and

    (II) by 31 December 2011, or such later date as may be specified by the
    Minister by order, is operational, available free-to-air and capable
    of providing coverage to the same extent as is, on the passing of
    this Act, available by free-to-air analogue means,

    The amendments have also changed the date of full DTT coverage to the end of Dec 2011 (or such later date ...) from Sept 2012, to meet the EU's 2012 switchover requirement.

    The proposed amendment (No. 113) is also tasking RTÉ with promoting the availability digital receiving equipment, previously a task of the DTT Champion - Boxer/OneVision etc. The BCI/BAI is still responsible (Sec. 139) for the National DTT Information Campaign from July.
    (c) RTÉ shall take steps to promote the availability of equipment capable of
    receiving, identifying, decoding and displaying a national television
    multiplex operated by RTÉ under section 114(1)(i).
    (7) The Authority shall from 1 July 2009 until the analogue
    switch-off date or dates provide information to the public in respect
    of the reception of television services by means of a multiplex and
    the reception equipment necessary to receive such television
    services.

    RTÉ will also be allowed to use the spare capacity on its mux for the broadcasting of commercial non-PSB channels now that the Irish Film Channel and Houses of the Oireachtas Channel are on hold.
    (e) Without prejudice to the requirements of this section, RTÉ may, with the
    consent of the Minister, the Minister having consulted with the
    Authority, in respect of the use of spare capacity on a multiplex
    established, maintained and operated by RTÉ under section 114(1)(i),
    broadcast programme material in pursuance of its exploitation of
    commercial opportunities object.”.

    Also an amendment (No. 128) for the provision of a switchover help scheme
    (d) operate, manage or sponsor, whether in whole or in part, measures, aimed
    at alleviating the effects of analogue switch-off on classes of
    communities or persons adversely affected.

    An amendment proposed (No. 112) by Liz McManus relates to Property Agreements and the availability of other digital tv providers in managed properties etc. Might be of interest to people in this situation as it has been discussed elsewhere in the forums.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Last week (Thursday, 11 June 2009) the Joint Committee on Communications invited representatives of RTE to a meeting to discuss the financial situation in RTE. The meeting was attended by Cathal Goan, DG, Conor Hayes, CFO and Kevin Dawson, head of corporate communications.

    The discussion included the roll out of DTT, DAB and RTE International. Below are some of the points raised
    Deputy Liz McManus: What is the position with regard to DTT?

    Mr. Conor Hayes: We originally estimated that to build an infrastructure for six multiplexes would cost €120 million. After the receipt of tenders, etc., we reduced the projected cost to €111 million and we now believe it can be done for somewhat less than that. In the interim, the Government has awarded the contracts for the commercial multiplexes. Last September, we entered negotiations with the Boxer consortium with a view to providing it with the infrastructure services it required. In order to ensure that the timetable was put in place, we commenced our rolling out DTT. Out of a total capital budget of €52 million for 2008, we spent €20 million on DTT. We have spent a further €5 million on it in the first quarter of this year.

    As a result of the withdrawal of the Boxer consortium, we have been left with the public service MUX and three other commercial multiplexes. RTE does not have a customer for the latter multiplexes. This places us in a difficult position in the context of the amount of money we have been obliged to commit. Our original intention was that between the commencement of the project and June 2010, we would have spent a total of €70 million. Up to the first quarter of this year we have already spent €25 million of this. Due to the fact that it is not possible to just go out and purchase transmitters, antennas and similar equipment because much of it is of bespoke design, we renegotiated with our suppliers in respect of the long-term contracts into which we are tied and we have elongated the project. We sought to create as much space as possible without damaging the project. We will keep the project going and will spend €15 million between now and June 2010. This will be enough to ensure that we meet our obligations.

    If a commercial customer does not emerge in respect of the commercial MUXs, a decision will have to be made with regard to how the financing of the public service MUX would proceed. We have commenced discussions with the second bidder - the One Vision consortium which comprises Arqiva, Eircom, TV3 and Setanta - and it is hoped that these will come to fruition.

    Senator Jim Walsh: I inquired about the pension deficit.

    Mr. Conor Hayes: I will come to that.

    Deputy Liz McManus: To conclude our deliberations in respect of DTT, the Minister indicated that he wants the process to be speedy and he appears to be quite upbeat in respect of it. I do not know why the latter is the case. Mr. Hayes stated that negotiations with the second bidder have only just commenced. I do not want to pin him down but


    Mr. Conor Hayes: I understand the consortium, if it is going to sign a contract, would like the negotiations to be concluded by the end of the summer. Similarly, its representatives anticipate that its discussions with the BCI in respect of a licence will also be concluded by the end of the summer.

    Senator Joe O’Toole: Is it Setanta Ireland that is involved with the consortium?

    Mr. Conor Hayes: The company itself has not actually been formed. However, I understand that the potential shareholder in the consortium would be Setanta Ireland.

    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: Did Mr. Hayes state that the service will be available nationwide by next summer?

    Mr. Conor Hayes: Our obligation is to launch the service on 31 December 2012. Obviously, one must work back from that date.

    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: Will it be for the entire country or only a part of it?

    Mr. Conor Hayes: If a successful commercial contract was negotiated, we believe we would be able to provide a service to 85% of the country from the summer of next year.

    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: So Mr. Hayes is only in a position to provide a tentative indication that 85% of the country will have the service by the summer of next year.

    Mr. Conor Hayes: It would quickly move above 90% in the following year.

    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: What would be the position with regard to the remainder of the country?

    Mr. Conor Hayes: The other services would not be switched off until the full DTT service was in place. The analogue service will be in place right through until the end of 2012.

    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: Some parts of the country do not even have access to that service at present.

    Mr. Conor Hayes: RTE 1 and RTE 2 are broadcast to 99% of homes throughout the country, TG4 is broadcast to 95% and TV3 to 84.8%.

    Deputy Noel J. Coonan: However, we need a 100% service.

    Mr. Conor Hayes: That is the best we can do.
    ...
    Senator Joe O’Toole: Private radio stations have said on air that DAB will die and that is preventing the spread. I heard one of RTE’s competitors say that last week.

    Mr. Cathal Goan: This is a key time about which there is no question. There are many things which, in the next while, depending on the investment and uptake among the public, could go one way or the other. We made a deliberate decision that we would not expand beyond Dublin. We are in Three Rock, Claremont Cairn in County Louth, Limerick and Cork, so we are hitting approximately 60% of the population from those main transmitter areas. However, we are not hitting the whole country. We have said to the Department that we do not propose to go any further until there is an indication that the commercial broadcasters will join with us and there is a significant market for it. I signal clearly here that if we have to tighten the belt further, it may well be that will be one of the things we will have to consider.

    The Senator also asked about RTE International, the name of the intended service. That is still on ice. Our proposal is that the RTE player, to which I referred, will have a version of that which will be available on-line internationally and which will have all rights cleared in order that people will be able to receive programmes not only to play them as they go out live, but to have a library of material for three weeks. That will be available internationally.

    There is a very simply answer to the question about RTE going unencrypted across Europe. There is a cost to us in doing that. Notwithstanding the Senator’s conviction, we do not believe we can meet the cost of that out of our current budgets with the levels of programmes we have and attract sufficient additional revenue.

    Senator Joe O’Toole: I accept that. The point I was making was that from a national point of view and in terms of national strategy and marketing this country, this is something that should be dealt with with Government. I accept the point Mr. Goan made but the value to us of a broader spread should be raised with Government.

    Deputy Michael D’Arcy: What is the cost?

    Mr. Cathal Goan: One must hire spectrum space on a satellite for that. One also incurs up-link costs for it.

    Senator Joe O’Toole: Does RTE not do it at present?

    Mr. Cathal Goan: One must do it separately for a new service. The only spectrum space on satellite we enjoy at present is with the Senator’s friend, Mr. Rupert Murdoch.

    Senator Joe O’Toole: Thank you very much.

    Mr. Cathal Goan: Apart from that, our up-link facilities we have are dedicated to specific tasks. One is talking about a new arrangement.

    I was asked if we would not have been better to stop DTT and go with satellite. In national strategic terms that may well have been an option several years ago, had Ireland Inc. decided that it would take a portion of satellite space. It is no longer a viable option. RTE will continue to roll out DTT, and Mr. Conor Hayes will fill the committee in on the details of where we are.
    ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 619 ✭✭✭slicedpanman


    Sounds like there will be not even be an almost national service for another 12 months :rolleyes: and that was even dependant on a comercial operator signing the contract :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Did no one ask the following question:-

    Boxer DTT pull out of negitotiations stating costs and the economic, now I put it to you in no uncertain terms; how can the BCI expect to sign a contract in the next month with a company looking for a White Knight?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭slegs


    The last line is the most interesting. DTT is here to stay. It is a question of how much coverage by when and how the service will develop (channels, HD etc). This will be slower than anticipated but it is and will be the platform of choice for public service FTA television. PAY DTT may happen or it may not and its impact is to either speed up or slow down the rollout of coverage for FTA PSB DTT.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 619 ✭✭✭slicedpanman


    slegs wrote: »
    The last line is the most interesting. DTT is here to stay. It is a question of how much coverage by when and how the service will develop (channels, HD etc). This will be slower than anticipated but it is and will be the platform of choice for public service FTA television. PAY DTT may happen or it may not and its impact is to either speed up or slow down the rollout of coverage for FTA PSB DTT.

    ...nail on the head there slegs


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    I agree with your assessment of what was said there slegs


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    DAB stuff moved to DAB thread. Keep on Topic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    This Thursday the Broadcasting Bill 2008 finally passed its Report and Final Stages in the Dail and now returns to the Seanad for final approval.

    Amendments (110-129) to Part 8 (Digital Broadcasting and Analogue Switch-Off) were discussed on Wed evening. Some of the discussion I've posted here.
    Acting Chairman: Amendment No. 111 arises from Committee proceedings. Amendments Nos. 113, 114, 123, 127 and 128 are related and will be discussed together.

    Deputy Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 111:

    In page 130, line 16, to delete ”(3) or (4)“ and substitute ”(3), (4) or (5)”.

    These amendments fall within the context of Part 8 which addresses the development of digital broadcasting services in Ireland and the closure of the analogue free-to-air television services currently provided by RTE, TG4 and TV3 using RTE’s analogue terrestrial transmission network’s analogue switch-off. Part 8 largely repeats the requirements for digital broadcasting as set out in the Broadcasting (Amendment) Act 2007 and I will take each of the amendments in turn.

    With regard to amendment No. 111, sections 130(3) to 133(5) provide for ComReg to issue licences for digital radio multiplexes on request from the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. Subsection (3) provides for a national commercial and digital radio multiplex; subsection (4) provides for a multiplex or multiplexes for regional digital radio services; and subsection (5) provides for additional multiplexes. The reference to subsection (5) was omitted in error from the definitions section in Part 8 and amendment No. 111 seeks to correct this error.

    Amendments Nos. 123 and 127 are minor drafting amendments necessary to improve the clarity and internal consistency of the text of the Bill. Section 130 provides for RTE to establish, maintain and operate a national digital television multiplex which will eventually replace the existing national analogue terrestrial television system.

    Amendment No. 113 amends section 130(1)(b)(i) to provide additional clarity with regard to the time line for the provision of RTE’s digital terrestrial television services. Under this amendment, RTE is required to offer services to approximately 90% of the population by a date to be set by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources by order, and to have the network completely built and operational by December 2012 or such later date as set by the Minister. The first date will be set following further consultation with RTE as to its network build and roll-out plans. The second date has been set with a view to allowing a transition period for television viewers which provides adequate time to change to the digital service in advance of the analogue switch-off in 2012.

    Amendment No. 113 also amends section 130(1)(b)(ii) so that the Minister may request regular updates from RTE as required. Amendment No. 113 proposes a new paragraph (c) in section 130(1) which provides for RTE to work to ensure the availability of suitable receivers on the Irish market. Digital television receivers must be compatible with the specifications of the RTE network if they are to receive the RTE DTT offering. RTE will need to work closely with manufacturers in ensuring a steady supply of receivers into Ireland.

    The proposed paragraph (e) of section 130(1) is new and is intended to clarify that RTE can use any spare capacity on its multiplex in pursuance of commercial opportunities, subject to the approval of the Minister, the Minister having consulted the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland.

    Amendment No. 114 is consequential to amendment No. 113. Amendment No. 128 amends section 139 which deals with analogue switch-off. This amendment introduces four new subsections which provide additional powers for the Minister in managing the process of switching off the analogue television services. These amendments aim to empower the Minister to address some of the issues raised by Deputies Coveney and McManus on Committee Stage in respect of the need for a managed analogue switch-off process.

    The new subsections (9) and (10) empower the Minister, by himself or in conjunction with others, to manage the analogue switch-off process by promoting co-operation between key stakeholders in the switch-off process, commissioning research regarding analogue switch-off, promoting public awareness and providing appropriate help schemes for disadvantaged members of our society.

    The new subsection (11) provides that the Minister by order may confer additional functions relating to analogue switch-off on ComReg, RTE and the BCI. The new subsection (12) provides that any such order would be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas.

    Deputy Simon Coveney: I will focus on amendment No. 113, which gives us an opportunity to have a discussion on where we are with DTT. I have raised this issue with the Minister during Question Time as a result of the very difficult position that RTE finds itself in with regard to funding because of Boxer deciding not to go ahead with a contract for commercial DTT. Boxer was to provide the necessary equipment to ensure households could get the set-top boxes which would allow people switch from analogue to digital terrestrial television. The idea was that RTE would build the infrastructure and a commercial operator would then lease the infrastructure or pay RTE for the use of it to provide a digital network across the country.

    We have no commercial operator now and yet RTE is still being asked to roll out the infrastructure. It has spent €40 million so far and must spend another approximately €50 million to €60 million, which it does not have. I presume that is why the Minister feels it necessary to change the target date from 31 December 2009 - the original wording whereby 90% of people would have DTT coverage with regard to the public service multiplex for which RTE has responsibility.

    We are now considering a wording indicating that this may happen on such a date as may be specified by the Minister. In other words, it will be at some stage in the future when RTE can afford to do it. There is recognition of a real problem, and this is the first time the Minister has given us that acknowledgement. Until now, his line has been simple; if Boxer does not do it, we will move to the next best tender, which is OneVision. The BCI is speaking with that consortium with a view to providing a commercial DTT product, although many of us are very sceptical about whether OneVision has the capacity or will to do this. I hope I am wrong in that respect. What is sure is that there will be a delay in the commercial DTT product over three multiplexes, amounting to approximately 20 channels, whether it is provided by OneVision or somebody else.

    The problem for RTE is that it still has the financial commitment to continue rolling out the infrastructure of masts and aerials. On top of that there is recognition in amendment No. 113 that there is a suggestion that RTE will have to provide the set-top boxes. The new section 130(1)(c) states ”RTÉ shall take steps to promote the availability of equipment capable of receiving, identifying, decoding and displaying a national television multiplex operated by RTÉ under section 114(1)(i).” Not only will RTE be required to meet the expense of rolling out the infrastructure across the country but it will also be asked to solve the problem of the set-top boxes, which it was not supposed to be involved with at all. That was to be resolved by the commercial operator.

    That will have a significant financial consequence for RTE on top of everything else. We should have a dose of honesty as to when we are likely to have 90% coverage for DTT in Ireland and how much it will cost. How will RTE afford to carry this out in its current financial position? I would like to hear the Minister’s comments on that. I make these statements in the context of being very supportive of the DTT project while acknowledging the real barriers and roadblocks which exist from a financing perspective.

    Paragraph (e) provides for RTE to exploit the commercial opportunity if spare capacity is available on its multiplex. Is this contradictory to section 130(1)? It will be required to provide RTE 1, RTE 2, TG4, TV3, the Irish Film Channel, the Oireachtas Channel and such other television services having character of a public service as designated by the Minister by order. What further commercial opportunities will be available?

    Deputy Liz McManus: I have similar concerns to Deputy Coveney’s. The provision of digital terrestrial television services, DTT, has become a tangled issue. It is of necessity a complex issue but I am concerned it is complicated by the number of players involved. There is the unknown entity which will replace Boxer, the commercial interest, RTE, ComReg, the BCI, the new authority and the Minister.

    Apart from the delay in its roll-out, this autumn people on the east coast will lose the access which they have enjoyed for a long time to the overspill in transmission of British television channels. Britain has got its act together while Ireland has not.

    Other problems relate to costs, as has already been outlined, the timeframe and the loss to the digital dividend which has great potential. The roll-out of the service has been delayed because of what has happened to Boxer. While I do not blame the Minister for this, there is a question mark over the approach expressed in these amendments. Some of them are so far behind of what is required of us, it is becoming disturbing. Public awareness of this issue is zilch. The receiver boxes issue should have been resolved some time ago and now there is a new departure as to who is responsible for those.

    I recall some years ago the broadcasting industry sought one person to take charge of this whole transformation. This mishmash of amendments tells us we need a type of DTT tsar to complete this project.

    While an EU obligation in this area must be met, there are also issues for those involved in this transformation. They need to have a certain amount of information and security about what is involved. However, I get the impression because there are negotiations starting with RTE and Onevision we are into unknown territory. Allowing for all the caveats involved, will the Minister clarify the timeframe involved in this? How will it be managed? I do not believe there is a management structure in place to ensure we meet the deadlines.

    Deputy Eamon Ryan: The key timeline derives from the switch-off of the analogue system by the end of 2012. This is the one certain deadline with which everything has to work back. That deadline is not there just because of EU directives but because of the economic imperative that comes from the digital dividend from using the spectrum elsewhere.

    It will be a tight timeline. The BCI selected a winning bidder last year and one would have expected the system to be up and running at this stage. However, this has not occurred and it will require RTE and the BCI to enter into separate contract negotiations with Onevision, the second consortium on the list. While the economic conditions are difficult, I have pointed out on Question Time and elsewhere that the economic case is strong for such an investment in DTT, particularly for some of the companies involved in that consortium. I am not as sceptical as Deputy Coveney that these contractual arrangements will not be agreed. While I am not involved directly, I am confident suitable arrangements will be made and we can proceed with the switch-on of digital services with a combination of free-to-air services and a commercial mix of channels.

    One reason for the change in the deadline is that we cannot be exactly certain of the date for this switch-over. It is not very bright to tie ourselves legislatively to a particular date. As stated earlier, we should not tie ourselves to certain technologies in the legislation because they change. Similarly, I do not want to be tied down legislatively to the switch-over. There is still a mechanism in the legislation to mandate RTE to ensure the switch-over from analogue to digital in 2012. While it is a tight timeline, I am confident we will achieve this transfer.

    Deputy Simon Coveney: Will the Minister accept that the whole DTT project will collapse financially because of the absence of a commercial DTT operator on the three remaining multiplexes? Why would anyone pay to switch over to DTT to get a public service digital product when the channels are already free on the analogue system? Why are we forcing RTE to spend a fortune to do this? Until Onevision, or some other company, is nailed down to provide the 25 commercial DTT channels, RTE is being placed in a precarious position of providing DTT and its multiplex even though no one will avail of it.

    This is in addition to providing the cost of analogue until a switch-off is required


    An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Coveney’s time has expired.

    Deputy Simon Coveney:
    as well as the infrastructural costs and so on. I understand what the Minister must do in respect of these amendments because of the uncertainty that now exists. However, I stress that in the absence of getting a commercial operator in place for DTT, the entire project begins to fall flat in its face. If the One Vision proposal is not going to produce a result, we must face up to that, move on quickly and find another result that will secure a commercial operator for DTT.

    An Ceann Comhairle: Amendment No. 111 in the name of

    Deputy Eamon Ryan: May I respond? We will switch off in 2012 and RTE needs to know that. It needs to know the Government is firm and committed to that date and it must begin to prepare for this certainty. Yes, in the event of not making a commercial agreement with One Vision, the Government will move to an alternative system. Come what may however, the analogue system is being switched off in 2012. This is the reason RTE must know that and must begin to working towards that date with real certainty, which is what is being provided in the legislation.

    Deputy Simon Coveney: It does not have the money to do it. While that is all well and good, there are cost implications.

    Amendment agreed to.

    The Minister said above "That (switchover) deadline is not there just because of EU directives but because of the economic imperative that comes from the digital dividend from using the spectrum elsewhere".
    Economic imperative - yes, the Digital Dividend. EU directives - no, this EU deadline comes from an EU Commission COM document - COM(2005) 204 which strongly advocates the beginning of 2012 be agreed for switch-off in all Member States. Some EU countries may not meet this date. 2015 should not be ruled out.

    The Minister also said "Yes, in the event of not making a commercial agreement with One Vision, the Government will move to an alternative system. Come what may however, the analogue system is being switched off in 2012".
    Is the alternative system Easy TV (incl. RTE) or Plan X bypassing Easy TV? And again the 2012 deadline.
    Deputy Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 113:

    In page 131, to delete lines 1 to 22 and substitute the following:
    ”(i) ensure that the national television multiplex referred to in paragraph (a) is established as a matter of priority, and—

    (I) on such date as may be specified by the Minister by order, is operational and available free-to-air to approximately 90 per cent of the population, and

    (II) by 31 December 2011, or such later date as may be specified by the Minister by order, is operational, available free-to-air and capable of providing coverage to the same extent as is, on the passing of this Act, available by free-to-air analogue means,

    and

    (ii) at the request of the Minister, report to the Minister on its progress in relation to the activities set out in subparagraph (i).
    (c) RTÉ shall take steps to promote the availability of equipment capable of receiving, identifying, decoding and displaying a national television multiplex operated by RTÉ under section 114(1)(i).

    (d) Nothing in this subsection precludes RTÉ from making provision in a multiplex established, maintained and operated by RTÉ under section 114(1)(i) for the broadcasting by digital means of programme material and related and other data other than that broadcast as part of a service specified in paragraph (a).

    (e) Without prejudice to the requirements of this section, RTÉ may, with the consent of the Minister, the Minister having consulted with the Authority, in respect of the use of spare capacity on a multiplex established, maintained and operated by RTÉ under section 114(1)(i), broadcast programme material in pursuance of its exploitation of commercial opportunities object.”.

    Amendment agreed to.
    Deputy Eamon Ryan: I move amendment No. 128:

    In page 142, between lines 15 and 16, to insert the following:

    ”(9) The Minister, for the purpose of ensuring a smooth and efficient interchange between the provision of analogue and digital television services in the context of analogue switch-off, shall have the power by himself or herself, or in conjunction with any other person, to—
    (a) promote cooperation and coordination between broadcasters, multiplex contractors and other interested parties in relation to analogue switch-off,

    (b) commission research on matters relating to analogue switch-off,

    (c) promote public awareness and the dissemination of coordinated information to the public in relation to analogue switch-off, and

    (d) operate, manage or sponsor, whether in whole or in part, measures, aimed at alleviating the effects of analogue switch-off on classes of communities or persons adversely affected.
    (10) The Minister has all such incidental, supplemental, ancillary and consequential powers as are necessary or expedient for the purpose of the exercise by him or her of the above powers.

    (11) The Minister may, after consultation with the Authority, the Communications Regulator, RTÉ and such other persons (if any) as he or she considers appropriate, by order—
    (a) confer on the Authority, the Communications Regulator or RTÉ such additional functions connected with preparation for analogue switch-off, as the Minister considers appropriate, subject to the conditions (if any) that may be specified in the order, and

    (b) make such provision as he or she considers necessary or expedient in relation to matters ancillary to or arising out of the conferral of those additional functions.

    (12)
    (a) An order made under subsection (11) shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon as practicable after it is made.

    (b) Either House of the Oireachtas may, within 21 sitting days after the day on which an order was laid before it in accordance with paragraph (a), pass a resolution annulling the order.

    (c) The annulment under paragraph (b) of an order takes effect immediately on the passing of the resolution concerned, but does not affect anything that was done under the order before the passing of the resolution.”.

    Amendment agreed to.



    On Thursday evening, during Ministers question time the Minister gave a written reply to three submitted questions relating to DTT.
    Broadcasting Services.

    13. Deputy P. J. Sheehan asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the progress regarding the negotiations between a consortium (details supplied) and the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland in relation to a contract to provide commercial digital terrestrial television here; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24117/09]

    21. Deputy Fergus O’Dowd asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he is satisfied that RTÉ has the capacity to roll out a full digital terrestrial television infrastructure by the end of 2009 due to funding challenges; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24124/09]

    49. Deputy Liz McManus asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if the digital terrestrial television contract with a company (details supplied) has been finalised; if not, the timeframe for the signing of the contract; if he is satisfied that the rollout of DTT will happen in a timely manner; when he expects the completion of the DTT project; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24050/09]

    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 13, 21 and 49 together.

    The Broadcasting (Amendment) Act, 2007 provides for the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI) to licence commercial DTT operators, as a matter of priority. The BCI is an independent body and I have no role in its licensing process.

    The 2007 Act also provides for RTÉ to establish a free to air national DTT service to replace the existing analogue terrestrial services offered by RTÉ, TG4 and TV3, as a matter of priority. There is no requirement on RTÉ to complete this work in 2009.

    In relation to funding, the Act provides that the establishment and operation of the RTÉ national DTT service can be funded from licence fee monies.

    The rollout of DTT infrastructure is well advanced and RTÉNL has already built a network which includes the main transmitter sites in Ireland. This represents the central component of their build plan. The remaining build work will largely involve upgrading the country’s minor transmitter sites to provide “infill” coverage and to ensure that outlying areas in the West, North, North West and South of the country, those areas most reliant on the analogue terrestrial service, are also served by DTT.

    I am confident that the DTT network will be built in time for the switch off of the analogue television services in 2012.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    very good posts. Now we know where things are headed, I got an email back from the Minister that the DTT promotion side is really a matter for RTÉ now and that his focus then is really on ASO issues and has set up a working group on it. I can see why RTÉ are being put involved in the set top boxes. This seems like an insurance policy in case the commercial DTT side falls through in which case you will have a UK DTT type scenario of FTA DTT followed by later Pay DTT. Shortage of money is the big problem for everyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    scath wrote: »
    very good posts. Now we know where things are headed, I got an email back from the Minister that the DTT promotion side is really a matter for RTÉ now and that his focus then is really on ASO issues and has set up a working group on it. I can see why RTÉ are being put involved in the set top boxes. This seems like an insurance policy in case the commercial DTT side falls through in which case you will have a UK DTT type scenario of FTA DTT followed by later Pay DTT. Shortage of money is the big problem for everyone.

    Can you post the email from the Minister?

    The Bill in its latest form covers a number of areas to be promoted to the general public between the launch of DTT and the completion of ASO.

    The National DTT Information Campaign is the responsibility of the BCI/BAI from July 01.
    139.—
    (7) The Authority shall from 1 July 2009 until the analogue
    switch-off date or dates provide information to the public in respect
    of the reception of television services by means of a multiplex and
    the reception equipment necessary to receive such television
    services.
    (8) In fulfilling its obligations under subsection (7) the Authority
    may consult with multiplex contractors, public service broadcasters,
    the television programme service contractor and the manufacturers
    and retailers of such reception equipment.

    RTÉ is responable for the promotion of DTT receiving equipment, a task previously for the pay DTT operator.
    130.—
    (c) RTÉ shall take steps to promote the availability of equipment capable of
    receiving, identifying, decoding and displaying a national television
    multiplex operated by RTÉ under section 114(1)(i).

    Emphasis is now on analogue switchoff which will dictate the pace of DTT roll-out and to this end three new subsections 139.— (9) (10) (11) were added by amenment this week including an information campaign on anaolgue switch-off to be run by the Dept of Comms or others (probably by the BAI as part of the ongoing National DTT Information Campaign). RTÉ already has the task of informing the public of the switchoff dates under subsection (6).
    139.—
    (6) RTÉ shall take steps to ensure that all viewers of services
    referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b) of subsection (2) provided by
    analogue means are made aware, of the analogue switch-off date or
    dates, the reasons for it or them, the consequences, and practical
    information on how such viewers can receive such services by digital
    means after that date or those dates.

    (9) The Minister, for the purpose of ensuring a smooth and efficient interchange
    between the provision of analogue and digital television services in the context of
    analogue switch-off, shall have the power by himself or herself, or in conjunction
    with any other person, to—
    (c) promote public awareness and the dissemination of coordinated
    information to the public in relation to analogue switch-off, and

    (11) The Minister may, after consultation with the Authority, the Communications
    Regulator, RTÉ and such other persons (if any) as he or she considers appropriate,
    by order—
    (a) confer on the Authority, the Communications Regulator or RTÉ such
    additional functions connected with preparation for analogue switch-off,
    as the Minister considers appropriate, subject to the conditions (if any)
    that may be specified in the order, and


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    Hold on...let me correct myself...The rollout is a matter for RTÉ. Any ideas regarding rollout are to RTÉ. Anything about ASO is to the Department. I was just giving opinion as regards how set top boxes purchases having to be pitched correctly that the need for set top boxes is industry technology and the politicians only are keeping in step with that for some good reasons. Because people in their infinite wisdom with no technical knowledge are going to ask why? My point is, it must be explained the why if they are not to be blamed for foisting on such people. I think RTÉ's 50'th anniversary programme on TV is an ideal time to alk about DTT. I did send an idea some time back to RTÉ about doing a programme on DTT that charts the history of TV. I don't know if one resulted in the other as it may have been planned anyways but it is an ideal opportunity for RTÉ to talk about DTT and I also mentioned for them to speak with those in other countries who have implemented DTT, what was their experience. That gives people a background. This set top box business could very easily become a stick for politicians to get the wrap for if they don't put their hands up & say this is the technology, its not our doing. I seems that RTÉ then are involved in ASO info and he and all the regulators can also get added ASO functions.

    Again, I think a Digital Ireland campaign is the best approach. Why do an mismash of sources when you can have an integrated point of contact as in the UK. Or I guess maybe its considered cheaper for RTÉ to do it. Maybe RTÉ can brand it Digital Ireland with OneVision throwing in a few bob if the sign off on DTT.

    Ref: SG 2009159 BD_1602

    Dear Mr -*-*-*-

    I refer to your recent correspondence in relation to the development of digital terrestrial television (DTT) in Ireland and analogue switch off (ASO).

    The rollout of public service DTT in Ireland is a matter for RTÉ to manage. In this regard, I would recommend that you forward ideas you may have in relation to the rollout of DTT directly to RTÉ.

    I believe that for DTT to succeed as a replacement for the analogue services, it needs to provide a better service than the analogue service and be easy to use and understand. Additionally, receiver equipment should be cheaply available and accessible to all.

    While the rollout of DTT is a matter for RTÉ and a commercial DTT provider I have responsibility for ASO. In this regard, a working group has been established by my Department – comprising representatives from my Department, RTÉ, BCI and ComReg - to begin work on establishing the steps necessary to achieve ASO.



    Yours sincerely

    etc

    I haven't pasted his name here as its not nice to see ones letter in public...though there isn't anything private there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    I see Liberty Global (UPC) http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0624/1224249415370.html are interested in Setanta Ireland. This would potentially allow it into the Onevision Consortium. Mm wouldn't that suit them nicely! Doubt Eircom would be too happy about that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I doubt eircom is worried as they are not a TV provider.

    I doubt that an interest in Setanta as content for Cable is the same as interest in a DTT Pay TV that can't ever make money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 619 ✭✭✭slicedpanman


    Whether its Liberty/UPC or anyone else the fact it that Setanta Ireland is looking for new owners... This will obviously be a little more important to them than sorting out the DTT contract ;)

    Anyway, it will certainly cause delays for the Govt in trying to get OneVision so sign a new contract but the net result is that whoever ends up buying Setanta Ireland may actually be interested in getting this OneVision thing going


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Most unlikely.

    A) It can't make money

    B) They will have just taken on huge Debt and comitments of further costs for Rights for as long as they run the channel.

    Also at the end of the day since Setanta relies on "rights" that have to be re-negotiated every year or so, any purchaser is really paying a lot for a brand.

    Setanta needed to build more content than Setanta News and have a Brand Name useful outside of Irish Ethnic communities to ever build a real customer base.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    No reason to suggest that UPC don't run Setanta as a FTA service on the PBS muxs. If Setanta Ireland wants to get GAA Championships they will need to be FTA, Rugby world cup without the need to get RTÉ, TV3 or TG4 involved in the Irish matches. But you are right Setanta Ireland will need to be a FTA channel for this to work.

    Setanta Ireland currently have 1-2% of the Irish audience. They could grow this if they are available FTV on sky and all other platforms.


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    watty wrote: »
    I doubt eircom is worried as they are not a TV provider.

    I doubt that an interest in Setanta as content for Cable is the same as interest in a DTT Pay TV that can't ever make money.

    Just that UPC are a telecoms provider is it. I'm suprised Liberty didn't make a bid for Eircom. It would give them a bigger stake in IPTV beyond their network. But I suppose too expensive, old network needing significant investment.

    I know DTT is the smallest end of Setanta concerns. I would say that whoever buys out Setanta Ireland will be more than happy to get involved in DTT. It would be good to get clarity on Setanta Ireland's new ownership early for Onevision. I mean you have Eircom undergoing change of ownership and Setanta. In terrms of investments, that doesn't help. These two represenent half the investment into Onevision shareholding. But no doubt Onevision would probably continue on the basis of that resolving itself rather soon, ie Dougthy's representatives taking the lead there in advancing negotiations. I think both Doughty and those interested in Setanta Ireland would be positive towards Onevision and Eircom's new owners would probably be positive towards a new little enterprise to be involved in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    IPTV only works for less than 10% of phone lines.
    * No multiroom either on IPTV
    eircom is of no value to Liberty
    (or indeed anyone with all that debt)

    If someone buys out Setanta that will be a heavy cost and a potentially loss making scenario.

    Pay DTT is likely to lose 20M a year at least. Why would any buyer of Setanta want Pay TV DTT?


    FTA is not a buisness model that will work for a Niche channel in current advertising environment. In the UK, among people that have Sky Sports, they spend less than 1.5% of their viewing time watching it. Only pay TV, not advertising can support the Rights Payments.

    Conversely a Pay TV platform simply can't compete with Sky or UPC unless it has over 100 channels. There is a good reason why Sport is a premium add-on to a basic Sky sub.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    They could work it as FTV channels with extra subscriptions to sky. So you have to buy a box from Boxer , One Vision or EasyTV.

    But this is all talk when we know they want to run with Pay TV across the board.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Let's keep on topic. New threads are free.

    No OT discussion here.

    "Adult" suggestions here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055603182

    DVB-T2 here:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055603188


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    While it did discus porn it wasn't the main theme we could have beind discussing a new poker channel. It was about choice on DTT.


    [ed: See links above :) ]


  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭scath


    I agree with Elmo :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭Apogee


    If OneVision doesn't get off the ground, and let's say Easy TV decide to take up the DTT licences, what is the status of the current MMDS spectrum? Does anyone know how long the current MMDS licences last for? Is there just one licence or multiple licences (due to when Chorus and NTL were separate)?

    [MMDS & 2.3GHz discussion is here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055607046 ]


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Ages. Comreg has a consultation out on 2.3GHz and suggests that the 2.5GHz won't be available for some while.

    EasyTV won't take up the licence :) Well, I'm fairly sure. When it does expire it will be reused as Data, not MMDS.

    If MPEG4 was used the MMDS could manage nearly 270 channels. Or 20 HD channels and 170 SD. Pretty decent chunk of spectrum. UHF DTT can't compete as a Pay TV delivery platform.


This discussion has been closed.
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