Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Irish Rail, gangsters

Options
135

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    The OP contacted us and we have provided advice, information and ideas on how to proceed in various ways as the OP has himself posted, its a confidential matter at this point.

    Any passenger who gets in contact with us, through our website complaints form or through info@platform11.org with a complaint will be investigated and we will where possible provide practical advice, do some bench research or indeed go on site to record by camera or to take notes and if required raise the matter with the appropriate office/manager in IE, RPA, RSC etc. We don't have eyes on the back of our heads so unless we either see it ourselves or it is reported to us we cant act, we are not physic.

    The mater of signage and information at stations and on trains is something we are working on for ages, next time you are on the DART look the map, it took a lot of annoying IE to get new maps in place, but we got them should be on commuter trains in due course. Signage at most stations is horrible there isn't any at all in Coolmine.

    Unless you know Coolmine no point in arguing a case some wildly misleading posts here are not helpful. In a strangely sensible move IE staff a extra booking office on the Dublin platform to deal with the inbound flow of commuters during the morning rush, thats quite a reasonable and positive action at other times the main booking office and ticket vending machines must be used. The side gate allows people quicker access to the station and also access when the level crossing at the end of the platform is closed

    If you approach from the Canal side you simply cross the level crossing turn left under the big IE sign and enter the station, pay and cross over by the footbridge in fact its probably quicker than using the side gate and crossing by the footbridge


  • Options
    #63
    faceman
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭faceman


    Big Nelly, ignore some of the RUBBISH replies you are getting. You have a perfectly good case here. Firstly for €25, they wont pursue you to court.

    There was a similar case in the courts less than a year ago and the judge threw it out. And the guy in that scenario took the train every day.

    If you get further correspondance on the matter, send a registered letter to IE and explain the situation and ask why Pearse st. takes fares after a journey has completed. If you have someone who can back you up that the ticket booth was closed then happy days.

    Did IE announce or advertise on the platform to use the other ticket booth? I suspect not.

    i wouldnt worry my friend.


  • Options
    #64
    MarkoP11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    They do presue cases to court, CIE group have a monthly time allocation in the District court, one more one less is nothing to them

    Platform 11 is fully aware of the outcome of a number of cases that said the max penalty is three months in the clink so before being a hero you need legal advice, no two cases are the same and its rarely clear cut. This case is rather complex and has a number of issues intertwined

    The booking office in the station in Coolmine was open at the time, no one has argued it wasn't.


  • Options
    #65
    Slice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭Slice


    MarkoP11: The OP contacted us and we have provided advice

    I stand totally corrected.
    daymobrew: Is 1 minute that much extra time? OP's "10 min long walk" comment is extremely inaccurate.

    You're right, I'm not familiar with the station or distances involved.

    The OP in this case is claiming ignorance based on misleading information previously supplied (presumably by a member of staff) about what the OP should do in a situation where the ticket office is closed and that information is to was to pay at the station where he gets off.

    If you keep a record of correspondence with IE regarding this situation it would demonstrate that you are acting in good faith with intent to resolve it, that alone would be enough to get your case thrown out should it come to that.

    The rules by which you're being penalised are for the purpose of catching genuine fare-dodgers and not someone who, through their own ignorance and IE's inability to communicate their terms of carriage without contradicting themselves has been caught out like this. Ideally these rules should be able to distinguish between the two - realistically they don't always do so but it doesn't by implication make you a petty thief.


  • Options
    #66
    Jonny Arson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Jonny Arson


    If IE can't bother their arses spending a few quid in putting up proper signage at their stations then what do they expect?

    Surely if the OP has paid at Pearse station before, as some people here would say was ''fare 'evasion'', then surely the OP has a case of inconsistencies on IE's part?

    Check PM's Big Nelly


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,750 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Irish Rails ticketing policies are completely incoherent, where I am there seem to be 3 sets of completely different ticketing rules running simultaneously.


  • Options
    #68
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    popebenny16 wrote:
    Its nice to see that the standards of the C&T forum are being well ahdered to and that the OP is getting the usual treatment dished out to those who end up at the wrong end of IE by the likes of Enterprise, Slitter and Ham'en'egger.

    Now where is that conflict of interest thread again?

    A bit like the treatment teh OP dishes out to those who criticise the Guards....

    I notice that IE seem to be taking a harder line these days - in Heuston yesterday there seemed to be a goodly number of Inspectors keeping an eye on queues and queue jumpers and (I hate to say it) the place seemed to be more efficient than usual.


  • Options
    #69
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,679 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    I used to use Coolmine station daily to get into town for my old job, and can vouch for Big Nelly's claim that when the temporary office is closed there is no signage to advise people they should purchase at the office on the opposite platform.

    Whether or not Big Nelly should have realised that this other building is a ticket office is irrelevant here. There was no signage to indicate this, and previous experience suggested to him that he can pay at the other end of the journey (something I've done myself on several occasions).

    Thus, as a very infrequent user of IE's "service" (something I can also vouch for as I know the OP personally), I'd agree that given the circumstances and previous experience he did nothing wrong, and the problem here is simply IE staff "power-tripping" combined with the usual inconsistent eforcement of procedures and rules/it depends who you get approach that pervades EVERYTHING in this country. :mad:

    THAT is the problem here, not the OP's totally understandable and justifiable approach/attitude in this situation.

    Side note: before anyone suggests I have a "conflict of interest" (phrase of the week lads?) as I know the OP, let me say that we disagree completely on the Gardai (as someone else mentioned his love of them :)) and other issues and so if I believed he was wrong on this one I'd say so :D


  • Options
    #70
    aliveandkicking
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭aliveandkicking


    Kaiser2000 wrote:
    Whether or not Big Nelly should have realised that this other building is a ticket office is irrelevant here. There was no signage to indicate this, and previous experience suggested to him that he can pay at the other end of the journey (something I've done myself on several occasions).

    Thus, as a very infrequent user of IE's "service" (something I can also vouch for as I know the OP personally), I'd agree that given the circumstances and previous experience he did nothing wrong, and the problem here is simply IE staff "power-tripping" combined with the usual inconsistent eforcement of procedures and rules/it depends who you get approach

    Exactly, the issue here is not really if the OP was technically or legally wrong rather it's the lack of a consistent policy from Irish Rail or even a customer focussed policy of putting up signs.

    IMO there should be a TVM at every platform in the country ala the Luas.


  • Options
    #71
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    I am suprised that this thread is still going on, a good week later!

    The simple matter is that the ticket office was open and that the OP didn't go to it to buy a ticket, he just hopped on the train and assumed he could travel and pay later. It was open and he should have had a ticket purchased for his trip, simple as that. Regardless of signage, practise, habits etc, it was open and ready to sell him a ticket and he didn't check it.

    As it is, the fine has been reduced so IE have shown him some leeway so it's not as if they are being bastards on the issue; I can't say any judge will be as forthcoming if it gets to the courts and it is a silly, petty thing to get a record for. Certainly, most people are in agreement that the signs can be better or that ticket machines on platform would be a great help but it won't sort this thing one. Just pay it and forget about it, man, the penalty from a judge will be a lot heavier (Not to mention legal fees if you want to fight the charge) and costly.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    There are a lot of comments here against the OP.
    The way I see it is that the OP went into the station in his usual manner, went to the usual ticket outlet which was closed and decided to paay at the destination. In the end he met a member of staff first and offered them money but this was declined.
    The fact that IR decide to have two ticket outlets at the one station could easily lead to confusion.
    The fact that ticket offices are frequently closed during daytime (and more so night times) can increase this confusion leading to customers having no choice but to board the train without a ticket. This happened quite frequently at Leixlip Confey when I was dumb enough to use the train (I don't see the point in paying to stand in a dangerously overcrowded train twice a day!). Strangely the office was still occupied during most daytime closures! I am also reminded of another poster here whose mother passed through Bayside when it was occupied but closed. She too was accused of fare evasion when she reached Howth (and went to pay the fare).
    IEs attitude suck big time. They run a crap service and when customers use a bit of initiative they see no alternative but to crucify them!


  • Options
    #73
    Big Nelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,613 ✭✭✭Big Nelly


    Hamndegger wrote:
    As it is, the fine has been reduced so IE have shown him some leeway so it's not as if they are being bastards on the issue; I can't say any judge will be as forthcoming if it gets to the courts and it is a silly, petty thing to get a record for. Certainly, most people are in agreement that the signs can be better or that ticket machines on platform would be a great help but it won't sort this thing one. Just pay it and forget about it, man, the penalty from a judge will be a lot heavier (Not to mention legal fees if you want to fight the charge) and costly.

    To be honest f**k IE, they are a useless shower of *****rs and you standing up for them is a joke. They can do nothing right, they have the worse rail system in europe. They can solve alot of traffic problems if they got there arse off the ground and opened the Navan line but what do they do????? sweet f**k all. I sent a cheque last week to them for the 25 quid but f**k it Im going to cancel this morning. I would rather give a grand to the justice system than see those gobsh*ts see another penny of mine.

    Sick of this stupid atitude which you yourself think is great of "let them get away with it", its a monday morning and Im pi**ed off so let see how IE deal with that.


  • Options
    #74
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    IE have nearly as many disgruntled customers as Ryanair.

    Next time a politician stops at your door ask him/her why the Government hasn't reopened any of these lines that you want reopened. Ask him why they won't fund lengthening intercity trains. Ask him why there are still cravens operating. Ask him why they don't have automatic ticket machines in every station.


  • Options
    #75
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    Big Nelly wrote:
    To be honest f**k IE, they are a useless shower of *****rs and you standing up for them is a joke. They can do nothing right, they have the worse rail system in europe. They can solve alot of traffic problems if they got there arse off the ground and opened the Navan line but what do they do????? sweet f**k all. I sent a cheque last week to them for the 25 quid but f**k it Im going to cancel this morning. I would rather give a grand to the justice system than see those gobsh*ts see another penny of mine.

    Sick of this stupid atitude which you yourself think is great of "let them get away with it", its a monday morning and Im pi**ed off so let see how IE deal with that.

    Good on you. Cancel a cheque, that'll show them! :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #76
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Hamndegger wrote:
    Good on you. Cancel a cheque, that'll show them! :rolleyes:
    I think you missed his point - he canceled the cheque as he would rather defend himself against their accusation!


  • Options
    #77
    Big Nelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,613 ✭✭✭Big Nelly


    kbannon wrote:
    I think you missed his point - he canceled the cheque as he would rather defend himself against their accusation!

    Exactly!!


  • Options
    #78
    Ham'nd'egger
    Registered Users Posts: 3,025 ✭✭✭Ham'nd'egger


    kbannon wrote:
    I think you missed his point - he canceled the cheque as he would rather defend himself against their accusation!

    And all over €2.... :D


  • Options
    #79
    Enigma365
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭Enigma365


    You are taking a big gamble by not paying. I doubt you would win this one in court and will end up paying more.

    Although, I am still a little unclear on the policy of accepting payments when getting off at Pearse. Can anyone confirm that this is IE policy(officially or otherwise)? Do they only do this when all ticket offices at a station are closed? This would be your only reasonable defense, in my opinion. The poor signage complaint doesn't hold much weight with me.


  • Options
    #80
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Best of luck with it Big Nelly. :)


  • Options
    #81
    OTK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭OTK


    Irish Rail wrote:
    There is no change in Iarnrod Eireann ticketing policy all passengers must have a ticket prior to boarding any service when a facility is available. This has been the policy of the railway since the 1889 railway act.
    To re-enforce this policy numerous amounts of signage is dotted around the network and the rolling stock. The newest poster No Ticket, No Travel, No Excuse is located on all rolling stock transiting that station and at main stations such as Connolly.
    The signage could be improved. If I don't know a station it can be confusing to see where to buy a ticket. In some countries it's OK to buy a ticket on board so if the rule is different here there should be a clear sign on each platform. I didn't know this rule.

    An ad campaign is the wrong way to communicate this information. People are trained to screen out ads and you don't look to an ad when you need information. Ad campaigns are temporary. A clear sign stating 'You will be prosecuted if you board a train without a ticket. The ticket office is on the opposite platform.' would be better. Putting a ticket machine on each platform is better still.

    As for the OP, well sometimes you break a minor law by accident and you get a small fine and you just move along. Ignorance is not a defence. That said, the judge may well side with a passenger against a big company.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    OTK wrote:
    A clear sign stating 'You will be prosecuted if you board a train without a ticket. The ticket office is on the opposite platform.' would be better.
    How about the attached document.
    Sign for Coolmine wrote:
    NOTE
    This ticket booth is closed. Please purchase your ticket at the ticket office on the opposite platform.

    WARNING: You will be prosecuted if you board a train without a ticket.


  • Options
    #83
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    It used to be very much the case that you would buy your ticket on the train that ran from connolly to maynooth.

    Then they had a ticket guy walking up and down the platforms but if he wasnt' there you could get your ticket on the train or pay when you got off.

    Now they have been putting in ticket offices but they are not clearly marked and are often closed or unmanned unless it is peak commuting times mon - fri.

    An ocassional train user will not know that this has changed and the inconsistancy of service on that line in terms of how and where and when you can get a ticket does not help matters.


  • Options
    #84
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,679 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    What about Broombridge (I think thats the one) where theres NO station at all (at least not last time I was on a train - admittedly a while back). How does that work?

    What's to stop someone saying they got on there and having to not only pay less, but being fully in the right also under IE's own rules - unofficial or otherwise?


  • Options
    #85
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    The Gorey Commuter in the morning, leaves Gorey at 6.30am and as far as Greystones the ticket offices are never open, absolutly no problem buying a ticket from the guy on the train, but he always gets you as you get on so no defrauding IE by saying you got on in Greystones when you were on board since Gorey.


  • Options
    #86
    John R
    Registered Users Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    Kaiser2000 wrote:
    What about Broombridge (I think thats the one) where theres NO station at all (at least not last time I was on a train - admittedly a while back). How does that work?

    What's to stop someone saying they got on there and having to not only pay less, but being fully in the right also under IE's own rules - unofficial or otherwise?

    For Broombridge either pay on the train or at the destination.

    Nothing is stopping someone from claiming they got on there, unless the inspector came around before the stop or the inspector had noticed that nobody got on the train there (a regular occourence).

    The rules are clear, only when there is no facility to buy a ticket from the ticket office at the originating station is it allowed to board a train.

    Broombridge is a disgrace, the local scum have made that place into a no-go dump and it is by far the worst location on the network for trains getting stoned. It is slated for closure with a new station to be built further west near the Ratoath Road to serve the new apartments built in that area.


  • Options
    #87
    Big Nelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,613 ✭✭✭Big Nelly


    John R wrote:
    The rules are clear, only when there is no facility to buy a ticket from the ticket office at the originating station is it allowed to board a train./QUOTE]

    The rules are clear???? well clear anyway until the change them tomorrow and then try and fine everyone thats on the train.
    John R wrote:
    Broombridge is a disgrace, the local scum have made that place into a no-go dump and it is by far the worst location on the network for trains getting stoned. It is slated for closure with a new station to be built further west near the Ratoath Road to serve the new apartments built in that area.

    Broombridge is a disgrace?? think you should say IE is a disgrace. They havent a clue how to do anything. Ahh sure blame the locals, if they had any sort of service this wouldn't be allowed to happen. Best laugh was on radio this morning with them complaining about not puttin on extra trains for Xmas. Said they had a massive advertising campaign last year saying they had extra trains on at nite to bring people home. Now can anyone here tell me where the f**k this "massive" advertising campaign was cause I never seen it and never heard it once mentioned there was trains on at night?????

    Mind you they prob would have train on, no ticket offices open and then try and charge you 70-80 euro for not having a ticket. They are a f**king joke. Must pick every dope out of school and hire them because anyone with any sort of a brain could do a better job than they are doing.


  • Options
    #88
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    Kaiser2000 wrote:
    What's to stop someone saying they got on there (Broombridge) and having to not only pay less
    One morning I went from Coolmine to Drumcondra. At Drumcondra a young woman who was on the train before me claimed that she'd boarded at Broombridge. I was so tempted to inform the ticket guy in Drumcondra of her mistake, but I chose not to make a big scene because there was a large crowd behind us.


  • Options
    #89
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,901 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    John R wrote:
    The rules are clear, only when there is no facility to buy a ticket from the ticket office at the originating station is it allowed to board a train.
    Oh right. So how many stations have made this rule clear?


  • Options
    #90
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,750 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Well, here, the station I use most frequently, Edgeworthstown has a number of ticketing policies associated with it.

    In the past, if I were running late for a morning Intercity train, I'd skip the (open) ticket office altogether and buy a ticket off the conductor who carries a mobile vending kit on his shoulder. Otherwise I'd buy it in the station. Simple.

    But outside peak hours, and on different services, the story changes. If you travel on afternoon service out of the station, the waiting room/ticket office is closed up, so you can't buy a ticket before boarding the train at all, and if the train is one of those Commuter trains, there'll be no conductor on board to sell you a ticket. So you kinda have to pay at the end ... And yes, Edgeworthstown has one of those "you must have a ticket BEFORE boarding" signs ... of course it actually means nothing when there are a bunch of other realities in total conflict. And of course now that Irish Rail has the same trains going to Sligo as they do Maynooth, it's hard to know what the hell to think.

    When that happens (if the train goes to Platform 3, 2 or 1) I just leg it, because I've heard so many horror stories about geniune customers getting "standard" fares for genuine mistakes either theirs or IEs.

    And before anyone yells "fare dodger" it all works out in the end because I have to travel home and IE charges THE SAME FARE FOR A SINGLE AS A RETURN!!!!!!

    In the OPs case, I can see some validity in the complaint, if the main ticket office is closed and there's no signs telling you where to buy tickets or what else to do, what IS the person (espeically an infrequent user) supposed to do?

    A schizophrenic elephant could design a better ticketing and fares policy than Irish Rail's "management."


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    daymobrew
    Registered Users Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    I stuck the sign that I proposed onto the side of the ticket booth. See attached photo.

    I spoke with the Station Master (based in Maynooth) about putting a sign up. He sounded appreciative. I also got the impression that he'd look into ordering an official one, though that could take a while.


Advertisement