Polish School In Dublin

DublinWriter · 03-09-2006 7:36pm

Elmo wrote:

It is a well know fact that Ireland had and prob still does have one of the best educational systems in the world.

Really? I suppose it would be stretching you a little to ask of empirical proof of that statement?

Elmo wrote:

One of the many reason people come to be educated in Ireland is for our education, including many of the multinational companies. One of the main reason for the Celtic Tiger is our Education System.

Let's not get all warm and green and fuzzy about this.

The reasons most companies moved here was because (in order of importance):

1. The generous 10% coporation tax on offer at the time.
2. The lack of influence of Trade Unions (as opposed to France/Germany)
3. The lack of corporate red-tape and compliance issues (as opposed to France/Germany)
4. We are native English speakers (as opposed to France/Germany)

Don't cod yourself about all that nonscence about education being a factor. What level of education do you expect people to have in order to answer phones for AOL in the East Point Centre, assemble PCs on a production line in Dell in Bray, and pack boxes for Microsoft out in Sandyford?

We don't have one of the best educational systems. I'm sorry to break that to you, but the level of investment we make in primary level education is pityful.

ircoha · 03-09-2006 8:24pm

DublinWriter wrote:

Really? I suppose it would be stretching you a little to ask of empirical proof of that statement?

Let's not get all warm and green and fuzzy about this.

The reasons most companies moved here was because (in order of importance):

1. The generous 10% coporation tax on offer at the time.
2. The lack of influence of Trade Unions (as opposed to France/Germany)
3. The lack of corporate red-tape and compliance issues (as opposed to France/Germany)
4. We are native English speakers (as opposed to France/Germany)
5 the way big corporations can tell Bertie et al to go f themself re things like the gum levy, the Hep C cockup

Don't cod yourself about all that nonscence about education being a factor. What level of education do you expect people to have in order to answer phones for AOL in the East Point Centre, assemble PCs on a production line in Dell in Bray, and pack boxes for Microsoft out in Sandyford?

We don't have one of the best educational systems. I'm sorry to break that to you, but the level of investment we make in primary level education is pityful.

Good post DW.

Anyway what about putting the Pschool beside the German school in Clonskeagh, on the east side to keep the OP who worried about being classed as Eastern European happy.

This co-location would enable them to re-create their cultural baggage and for the school play: Schindlers List.

Elmo · 04-09-2006 7:00pm

http://www.educationireland.ie/httpdocs/htm/about/why.html

Ireland has one of the best education systems in the world according to the 2004 IMD World Competitiveness Report. It has close links to industry and is characterised by creativity, flexibility, agility, pragmatism and informality. Education has been a key factor in making Ireland one of the fastest growing economies in the world over the past decade. Government policy on investment in research and "4th level" education as the key to developing Ireland as a knowledge society in the new global economy.

Perhaps the site is a little bias buy hey.

JackKelly · 04-09-2006 7:08pm

I really don't see the problem. As people said, there both a German and French school in Dublin, why not polish? It's hardly a snub to the Irish Education System, it just makes it easier for people to settle down coming from poland.

Elmo · 04-09-2006 7:15pm

it just makes it easier for people to settle down coming from poland.

Most of the kids are settled it's not like they haven't lived most of their lives in Ireland. Fair eought for Children of about 10 or 12 coming into the country. But sure their needs to be some type of intergration with the Irish population. It just pulls children apart when they don't have any separtatist views.

Sonnenblumen · 04-09-2006 9:07pm

I would like to state a couple of points mainly to help the prevailing ignorance in many of the posts.

separate schools do not undermine integration, approx half the pupils in the German school are Irish born, Irish citizens
the german schools follows both Irish curriculum and also german equivalents
I would presume the Polish school will also follow examples of other international schools

Finally all those Posters which so vehemently insist that Ireland has the best education can articulate their respective points with the benefit of 13 years pre-University education, in their wonderful native Irish language.

I would expect that most Polish/German/French children are more competent with foreign language than most Irish adults are with their wonderful native language. You go to school to learn, but you educate yourself!

Flukey · 04-09-2006 10:36pm

I do not have a problem with there being a Polish school. It is not in any way a snub to anyone. They will still be here, and it is only a small part of their time here. They won't be in the school 24 hours a day, so it is not taking them away from Irish society in any way. Where is the first place that Irish people hit when they go abroad? The Irish pub! Should they all be banned, along with other places Irish people congregate abroad? There are many Irish pubs/clubs/schools etc. in other countries. In every country there are all sorts of things from other nations. People are trying to make an issue out of nothing here.

bounty · 04-09-2006 10:51pm

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

Elmo · 04-09-2006 10:55pm

I do not have a problem with there being a Polish school. It is not in any way a snub to anyone. They will still be here, and it is only a small part of their time here. They won't be in the school 24 hours a day, so it is not taking them away from Irish society in any way. Where is the first place that Irish people hit when they go abroad? The Irish pub! Should they all be banned, along with other places Irish people congregate abroad? There are many Irish pubs/clubs/schools etc. in other countries. In every country there are all sorts of things from other nations. People are trying to make an issue out of nothing here.

Yeah I agree with that. But i think irish pubs should be banned, go visit a place don't go to the ****ing irish pub ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Finally all those Posters which so vehemently insist that Ireland has the best education can articulate their respective points with the benefit of 13 years pre-University education, in their wonderful native Irish language.

I think we have a problem in Ireland. One of Self deprecation, if we aren't on the bottom of the list for everything we are not happy.

I don't think any non-english lanuage is thought well in Ireland and we are failing people hugely in this area. But that is one of a huge list of subjects thought well.

Ta cupla focail as gealge agam ach ta mo grammadach ufasach agus mo litiur. Ta bron orm ach ta dyslexia agam, nil teagan mo abhar nios foir. An bhfuil se sin ceart go leor?

ircoha · 04-09-2006 11:02pm

bounty wrote:

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

Bounty:Are u conservative?

What about the 600 homeless poles that are here that the Polish Govn denies are here?

What is the funding for the Pschool?

MrJoeSoap · 04-09-2006 11:02pm

bounty wrote:

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

Just like the Tayto ad... there's always one. :rolleyes:

Terry · 04-09-2006 11:10pm

a few months back WhiteWashMan said that anyone who calls someone else a ricist on this forum will be banned.
careful now.

Yook · 04-09-2006 11:11pm

bounty wrote:

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

This is either a really lame joke or you are retarded.

Captain Trips · 04-09-2006 11:25pm

Budo.Judo.Kev wrote:

Really? Why so? Are you familar with the educational systems around the world? What makes you so sure? Stop making unsubstaniated comments please.

It's true in certain ways: (I am in a NationMaster mood this evening)

3rd level/College education attainment: Ireland 3rd in world (Canada and US are 1 and 2).

Adult high level of literacy: Ireland 14th in world - we are absolutely trounced by Scandinavians here, and most of Europe.

Scientific literacy: Ireland is 9th. We beat out Sweden, France, Norway, United States, Switzerland, Germany

School Life Expectancy: 17th for Ireland - not great really, but we beat the Austrians, Canadians, Japanese. Of course, we get our ass kicked by the Scandinavians again (but so does everyone eh?)

Average students aged 13 in a class: Ireland is 19.2, bang on average, beating out Netherlands, France, Japan (and Colombia) which all have more numbers per class, but losing to central europeans and scandinavians and Austrai, who bizarrely have 4.7 students per class at age 13.

Considering our education spending is only 5,5% of GDP (44th in the world), our duration of compulsory education only 10 years (52nd in world): reports of class disorder is in 26% which is not bad at all, as the scandinavians reports more disorder in class. Perhaps we need to make more noise as kids as then we will become more literate?

Overall, based on my NationMaster research, we do indeed have one of the best education systems in the world, if you include Chad, Congo and South America. If you look at EU, US and Commonwealth, EEA ("The West"), wehave some good stats near the top of the chart, and others near the bottom.

Considering the lack of investment, Irish people seem to be quite successful. Perhaps when one says "one of the best" you read it to be "the best". It's good, has some points that are better than the Dutch and Norwegians, and some points that are trailing with the Italians.

cournioni · 05-09-2006 8:32am

Einst&#252 wrote: »

It's not too hard, a bit of Mr. Sheen and an old cloth. Don't see why a school needs to be dedicated to it. :eek:

/me gets coat

Diogenes · 05-09-2006 1:19pm

So are you opposed to Polish people coming over here taking our jobs and putting an additional strain on our public services (their children in our school)

Or are you opposed to the Polish government coming here and teaching their children in their own schools and "not intergrating"

Jesus you've got the fúcked coming and going.

Here's three very good reasons for Polish people to have their own school;

1. They're here temporarly and have brought their children, and plan to return before their children have grown up, and don't want to disrupt their education any further.

2. They've got young kids and feel they're struggling learning through a foreign language, you feel they'd do better learning through Polish.

3. You feel that your children's education is better served than wasting several years complusary studying a language that the Irish never use.

Seriously try convincing the Poles or anyone that we have "one of the finest education systems in the world" yet some how spawn thousands of leaving cert students who are incapable of speaking or understanding Irish a few years later.

Celticfire · 05-09-2006 5:04pm

bounty wrote:

anyone who is against a polish school in dublin is racist

:rolleyes:

Executive Steve · 05-09-2006 5:08pm

Diogenes wrote:

3. You feel that your children's education is better served than wasting several years complusary studying a language that the Irish never use.

Seriously try convincing the Poles or anyone that we have "one of the finest education systems in the world" yet some how spawn thousands of leaving cert students who are incapable of speaking or understanding Irish a few years later.

oddly enough... i know TWO seperate polish couples who actually go to irish language classes in order to be able to help their children with irish homework...

one of them has better irish than i do - although i grew up over in holland and never learnt it in school so that deosn't count, and i do speak a fair bit of irish, mainly at home with my fluent girlfriend...

i remember meeting english kids who went to international schools though... their dutch was always really bad, and i never felt they really had too much of a tie to the area they were settled in; many of them had parents who did a few years work in each country....

as for a polish school, well, they have german ones, they have french ones... why is this even news?

as for the poles "coming here and putting a strain on our services" they pay tax you know - they pay for the services

as for education systems, well many of the poles i've met have been pretty educated creative cultured people... the irish education system does very poorly at churning them out imo...

Terry · 05-09-2006 5:13pm

all this bitching and moaning about the Irish education system bewilders me. many people seem to have done quite well out of it. i'll just put it down to the usual Irish way of doing thing: bitch and moan to anyone within earshot, but never actually do anything worthwhile to solve the problem.

luckyvegas7 · 05-09-2006 5:23pm

may aswell build schools for every seperate nationalities in ireland then!..

Executive Steve · 05-09-2006 5:28pm

julep wrote:

all this bitching and moaning about the Irish education system bewilders me. many people seem to have done quite well out of it. i'll just put it down to the usual Irish way of doing thing: bitch and moan to anyone within earshot, but never actually do anything worthwhile to solve the problem.

mmm...

you DO have a point, a rather good one, but i think the fact that many have done well out of it isn't down to any inherent superiority in the system, but rather down to the efforts of some incredibly dedicated and conscientious teachers.

i really think our schools [rather than our "education system" are DANGEROUSLY underfunded... pupils in one of the richest countries in teh world should not be sitting in leaky pre-fabs, should not be sitting in draughty corridors, should not be eating overcooked fatty junkfood, and should not be locked into a furiously results and fact-regurgitating points race that creates a high pressure environment of constant hobbesian rat race competition.

given that all these things ARE happening, i can't blame anybody for wanting alternative options when it comes to their education.

Nightwish · 05-09-2006 5:30pm

Theres some pretty good debate regarding this topic in the papers over the past few days. Mary Kenny had a great article in yesterdays Indo. I totally agree with her also (something I rarely find myself doing). She made the point that while the Polish school in Dublin mightn't cause much harm, it may be the first step in the wrong direction towards a badly-planned multi-cultural society.

eth0_ · 05-09-2006 5:33pm

In fairness, most Polish have no intention of staying in Ireland for good, so I can kind of see why this might be a good idea if they come over here for a few years with their kids.

However...I do think it will breed racism. People who move to another country need to integrate with the society they are in. If they stick together in groups of their own race/nationality, it only breeds resentment. As does the fact some are apparently unwilling to learn more than a few words of English. It p*sses most people off when they are trying to communicate with a shop assistant in their own country and the customer is made to feel like they are the outsider because they can't communicate.

Diogenes · 05-09-2006 5:40pm

[cm]tyranny wrote:

oddly enough... i know TWO seperate polish couples who actually go to irish language classes in order to be able to help their children with irish homework...

one of them has better irish than i do - although i grew up over in holland and never learnt it in school so that deosn't count, and i do speak a fair bit of irish, mainly at home with my fluent girlfriend...

Apparently most inner city Irish classes are filled with foreign nationals.

Julep, I'm not bitching and moaning about our education system, merely pointing out that if the Poles want to opt out of it, than thats their business.

eth0_ · 05-09-2006 6:13pm

Diogenes wrote:

Apparently most inner city Irish classes are filled with foreign nationals.

Julep, I'm not bitching and moaning about our education system, merely pointing out that if the Poles want to opt out of it, than thats their business.

True. I mean there are already schools here that follow the French and German curriculum, i'm not sure if that means those kids grow up in a French or German bubble though.

Terry · 05-09-2006 6:16pm

my comment about bitching and moaning was a general one, directed at everyone who bitches and moans.
nice that you thought i was talking about you though.

Diogenes · 05-09-2006 7:17pm

julep wrote:

my comment about bitching and moaning was a general one, directed at everyone who bitches and moans.
nice that you thought i was talking about you though.

Not really I just didnt want people to think I was one of those people who sneer at every aspect of Irish education system.

Eth0_ wrote:

True. I mean there are already schools here that follow the French and German curriculum, i'm not sure if that means those kids grow up in a French or German bubble though.

I really cannot understand the level of begrudgery about this, they're paying for it themselves, it's not depriving us of our teachers, and it shows a flexbility among their community.

A major problem for UK parents living in a multi ethic area is that often children with poor English are either left behind, or slow down the pace of learning in the classrooms, as teachers struggle to make sure they dont get lost.

Elmo · 05-09-2006 10:35pm

1. They're here temporarly and have brought their children, and plan to return before their children have grown up, and don't want to disrupt their education any further.

Polish and Irish people are stupid to think that they are only here for a number of years. It is very difficult to up and jump ship back to your own country. How many Irish people did that? How many?

2. They've got young kids and feel they're struggling learning through a foreign language, you feel they'd do better learning through Polish.

Again back to my first point there, polish who don't speak English (of which their are many) are silly not to put their children through English speaking school in a country they will make their own in the long run. Again How many Irish people came back after 10 years in america or britian? Polish kids who grow up in Ireland (their home) and only speak polish in school and at home will find it very difficult and will always feel left out, in Ireland and in Poland.

I am not a rasist, I feel that everyone should intergrate. When you have the largest minority of people in Ireland choosing not to you will have problems in the future.

Remember many people who went to america and britian all thought they would return home at some stage.

The poles and other eastern europeans need to start learning English and intergrating and stop thinking that they will return to their home country. Their home now, and they are very welcome. IMO.

I do not mean to get down on Polish or eastern europeans (for that matter all of the new nationalities in the courntry) they have brought alot of money to this courntry in the last number of years. I say money for all the economist out their and for all the lefties I really mean Culture honest I do

(LOL you would think I wasn't a socialist/capitalist)

That all I have to say on the matter thanks.

Sorry one other thing. I think it is important for all children to know their parents language (including Irish). I would hate to see people not passing on their language to their children.

The junior cert and leaving cert should set up exams toward flunence in other languages i.e. Honours English type exams for Polish speakers. (or any other language).

Diogenes · 05-09-2006 10:50pm

Elmo wrote:

Polish and Irish people are stupid to think that they are only here for a number of years. It is very difficult to up and jump ship back to your own country. How many Irish people did that? How many?

Lots actually. Furthermore it's not like the situation in Poland is dire, many Irish who immirgrated were had nothing to come back to, Poland should be very successful in a few decades. Furthermore the model of Europe transport has radically changed since then, How many Irish flew in the 50s to 70s?

I'm not saying I have all the answers I'm just saying applying our own model for immirgration and return from 30 to 50s years ago, as proof of your own theory is a waste of time.

Again back to my first point there, polish who don't speak English (of which their are many) are silly not to put their children through English speaking school in a country they will make their own in the long run.

Thats an assumption it's not a proven fact, the majority of Poles want to return to Poland after a few years and theres no reason to suspect that won't happen.

Again How many Irish people came back after 10 years in america or britian? Polish kids who grow up in Ireland (their home) and only speak polish in school and at home will find it very difficult and will always feel left out, in Ireland and in Poland.

But er they're not going to speak just Polish, they'll ask get english lessions and will have to interact in daily life with English speakers all their lives.

I am not a rasist, I feel that everyone should intergrate. When you have the largest minority of people in Ireland choosing not to you will have problems in the future.

Really? Like?

Remember many people who went to america and britian all thought they would return home at some stage.

Most who went to america were under no such illusion. Many knew that if they returned home it would be a visit nothing more. Most knew the distance and cost meant they never would.

The poles and other eastern europeans need to start learning English and intergrating and stop thinking that they will return to their home country. Their home now, and they are very welcome. IMO.

This seems to be a massive misconception on your part in a german or french school in Ireland, English lessions play a huge part. Just because they're studying in Polish does not mean they won't learn english. Christ by that rational Gaelscoil students shouldn't be able to speak english.

I do not mean to get down on Polish or eastern europeans (for that matter all of the new nationalities in the courntry) they have brought alot of money to this courntry in the last number of years.

Yet you feel the need to rant yet don't seem to understand the pramatics of this school.

That all I have to say on the matter thanks.

It seems you have little to say other than misconcieved preconceptions.

ircoha · 05-09-2006 11:03pm

[cm]tyranny wrote:

as for the poles "coming here and putting a strain on our services" they pay tax you know - they pay for the services ...

If they are being exploited, as many of the Poles are, being paid far less than the minimum wage, they will NOT, be paying tax.

This should be a far greater issue than whether they have a school or not.

At the risk of the mod blowing me away, what exactly do we mean by integration?
Do we want to keep the gene pool pure or are we happy to progress towards total homogenisation.

If we do what will our leprecauhens look like in 50 years?

Polish School In Dublin

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