Firearms Acts 1925-2006

Sparks · 03-08-2006 1:24am #1

Okay folks, since the Criminal Justice Bill thread has run to 35 pages and people won't wade through that much; and since it was to do with the Bill rather than the ensuing Act, we have a new sticky thread (at least for a while) to discuss the new Act and the changes it's brought in.

To start off with, here's the final version of the Criminal Justice Bill 2006, as passed by the Dail and Seanad and signed into law.

Then here's a link to the Firearms Acts, as amended:

FIREARMS ACT (as amended) 1925-2006

Please note : This document is not a restatement prepared under the Statute Law (Restatement) Act 2002 and as such is not legislation. It is intended to provide an overview of the Firearms Acts only, and not to serve as a legal document.

Section 1 Definitions and interpretation.
Section 2 Restrictions on possession, use, and carriage of firearms.
Section 2A Firearms training certificate
Section 2B Restricted firearms and ammunition
Section 3 Applications for, and form and effect of, firearm certificates.
Section 3A Issue of guidelines etc. by Commissioner.
Section 4 Conditions of grant of firearm certificate.
Section 4A Authorisation of rifle or pistol clubs or shooting ranges.
Section 4B Firearms range inspectors.
Section 5 Revocation of firearm certificates.
Section 6 Sale of firearm when certificate refused or revoked.
Section 7 Permit to bring firearm ashore.
Section 8 Persons disentitled to hold a firearm certificate or a permit.
Section 10A Reloading of ammunition

The Bill was signed into law by the President on July 16 2006, and we've just seen an announcement of the commencement orders on the DoJELR webpage:

Minister McDowell commences Criminal Justice Act 2006 - Measures include new powers for the Gardai, provision for a weapons amnesty followed by mandatory sentences for gun crime

New law will "make life more difficult for criminals"

The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. Michael McDowell, has signed an order bringing into operation a substantial number of the provisions contained in the Criminal Justice Act 2006 with effect from today's date, 1 August 2006. Further provisions will come into effect on 2 October 2006 and 1 November 2006.

The Act, which was signed into law by the President on 16 July 2006, contains a comprehensive package of anti-crime measures designed to enhance the powers of An Garda Siochana in the investigation and prosecution of offences and generally provide for improvements to the operation of the criminal justice system.
...
A wide range of provisions are being commenced with immediate effect from today including the following:

...

Firearms and Fireworks
* A statutory basis for an amnesty during which firearms, knives and offensive weapons may be surrendered to the Garda Siochana before new penalties and minimum mandatory sentences are introduced. This will enable people to regularise their position before the mandatory sentences are introduced thus enabling the Gardai to concentrate on more serious offenders. This amnesty will operate during September and October of this year;
* Increases in fines and penalties generally for offences under the Firearms Acts;
* Provisions to allow the Minister to deem certain firearms as "restricted" by reference to specific criteria, including the calibre, action type and muzzle energy of the firearm. Any person wishing to obtain a certificate for such a firearm will now have to apply directly to the Garda Commissioner;
* A new offence of possession of illegally imported fireworks with intent to supply;
* New offences governing the misuse of fireworks in public places, and
* Increases penalties governing the illegal importation, sale and use of fireworks.

With effect from 1st November 2006 the following come into effect -
* Mandatory minimum sentences, of between five and ten years, for certain firearms offences, including possession of a firearm in suspicious circumstances, possession of firearm with criminal intent, possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life or cause serious injury to property, possession of a firearm while hijacking a vehicle, and use or production of a firearm to resist arrest;
* New offences concerning the modification of firearms such as "sawing-off" a shotgun.

...

Commencement of the Criminal Justice Act 2006

Parts 1 to 8 and Part 15 of the Act, with the exception of a small number of sections in Parts 2 and 5, are being brought into force with effect from today 1 August. Parts 9 and 10 (other than the provisions on electronic monitoring) will become operational on 2 October while further parts of Part 5 will commence on 1 November.

(Part 5 of the Act is the Firearms section btw)

dbar · 03-08-2006 10:28am

Just took a quick look at a couple of sections,
Under the Restricted Firearms and Ammo Section,

"declare specified ammunition to be restricted ammunition for the purposes of this Act by reference to one or more than one of the following criteria:

(i) category;
(ii) calibre;
(iii) weight;
(iv) kinetic energy;
(v) ballistic co-efficient;
(vi) design;
(vii) composition;
(viii) description."

How are they going to use ballistic co-efficient to restrict?

I can just see it now, sorry, bullets with a bc of blah are well known to be used by certain undesireables, cant give you the reloading licence.

This wording practically gives unlimited scope to refuse any application, (pick list to chose from)
the Restricted Firearms is the same.

17HMR · 03-08-2006 10:55am

dbar wrote:

"declare specified ammunition to be restricted ammunition for the purposes of this Act by reference to one or more than one of the following criteria:
(i) category;
(ii) calibre;
(iii) weight;
(iv) kinetic energy;
(v) ballistic co-efficient;
(vi) design;
(vii) composition;
(viii) description."
How are they going to use ballistic co-efficient to restrict?
I can just see it now, sorry, bullets with a bc of blah are well known to be used by certain undesireables, cant give you the reloading licence.
QUOTE]

Or, by composition: Sorry, bullets with lead in them are bad for the environment...

Or by design: Sorry, hollow point bullets are used by assasins.....

Or by description: Sorry, 22LR "Stinger"...sounds dangerous

I guess we'll just have to build relationships and trust and believe some degree of reason will prevail..... and be prepared to fight the good fight in the courts if necessary.

Degsy · 03-08-2006 11:56am

That mention of fireworks is,i presume,specificly to put people out of business who sell thousands of quids worth every year.Dunsink halting site was raided last year and they were talking about hundreds of kilos of them rather that just a few bangers.We might get some peace and quiet in the run up to halloween.!

whupass · 03-08-2006 4:19pm

wait, you know the restricted firearms part? is that the bit that legalises airsoft guns?

garmac · 03-08-2006 5:47pm

Hi All.
I'm very new to shooting- I've only been shooting at clays for two years.
Does it bother anyone else out there that this is the CRIMINAL justice act?
Who are they trying to kid? "Hmmmm will I go to that DTL shoot today or will I go knock off the bank?"
From what I've experience in the last two years Irish shooters are incredibly safe, responsible well trained people.
(Probably far superior to our armed gardai etc too.)
Do we actually have a voice in all this?
I think it will give them carte blanche and a very free hand.
Guess I'll have to cancel the order for my Barrett M95 now too :-)
Keep the faith.

Sparks · 07-08-2006 5:04pm

garmac wrote:

Hi All.
I'm very new to shooting- I've only been shooting at clays for two years.
Does it bother anyone else out there that this is the CRIMINAL justice act?

It did - but frankly, anything more than mild annoyance on the first read is and was a waste of time for two reasons:
1) The contents of the bill are far more important than the heading;
2) The bill amends the firearms act, it does not change the firearms act to a criminal justice act.

There's also the point that the Firearms Act is a queer one in that it comprises both civil and criminal legislation in one Act, which is a tad unusual.

Basicly, don't worry about the title - it's like worrying about the licence plate of the truck that's about to hit you!

Do we actually have a voice in all this?

We did, over the past two years. When it was the Criminal Justice Bill 2004. But now it's the Firearms Act 2006 and we have no say in it that we don't have to pay enormous amounts for in the courts (and the last time we did that, they wrote the CJB and overturned the court's decisions with a single line of text...)

I think it will give them carte blanche and a very free hand.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Sparks · 07-08-2006 5:25pm

From the Commencement Order, all of the firearms Act amendments are now in force except those in sections 28 (firearms training certs), 30 (firearms cert form), 32 (granting firearms certs), 33 (authorising firearms ranges and clubs), 38 (firearms dealer registration) and 40 (reloading) from the CJB; so yes, airsoft pistols are now toys not firearms and so on. And there's nothing in there on timetables for those sections coming into force. The DoJ says Nov.1st though.

Sparks · 07-08-2006 5:25pm

whupass wrote:

wait, you know the restricted firearms part? is that the bit that legalises airsoft guns?

No, you're thinking of the part that defines a firearm as being an airgun of more than 1 joule muzzle energy, which means many airsoft guns are not firearms anymore.

Saddlebags · 12-08-2006 12:56am

Since the new act came in, I believe a decision has to be made within 3 months,on granting of licence. I'm waiting 2 months now since I was first refused a cert for a pistol and got upgraded to a reconsider after a meeting with the super.So. has he now got 3 months from Aig 1st or should I expect an answer in the next few weeks?

Sparks · 12-08-2006 9:19pm

You made your application under the old system Saddlebags, so it's not clear-cut. You could argue either side of the argument in a court with legitimate points. Probably best just to try the softly-softly approach until you can't do so anymore.

NiSmO · 14-08-2006 12:06am

This post has been deleted.

Sparks · 14-08-2006 2:18pm

Looks that way NiSmO.

newby.204 · 17-08-2006 3:47pm

Before i get any rants refering to a new airsoft thread, this was the only example i could think of to illustate my point and im refering, in my question, to having to state any part of the Firearms Act/CJB 2006

When a person is refering to a relevant part of the Firearms act/CJB 2006 what exactly do you say??

For e.g.
Guard:"Im going to have to confiscate that pistol!"

Me:"Under the Firearms Act/CJB 2006 this is now a toy......"

Sparks · 17-08-2006 4:20pm

It's cited as the "Firearms Act (as amended)" or the "Firearms Acts 1925-2006" newby, but just refer to the Firearms Act 2006 and they should know what specifically you're talking about.

In your specific case for example, the conversation might run as follows:

Guard:"Im going to have to confiscate that pistol!"
Newby:"According to section one of the Firearms Act 2006, this is now a toy as it's muzzle energy does not exceed one joule."
Guard:"Really? Prove it."
Newby:"Er...."

(That's why I thought 7 Joules was a better figure, by the way - german air rifles have a symbol stamped on them that legally says they were tested and have a muzzle energy of 7 joules or less. There's nothing similar for one joule, at least so far as I know. You'll probably see airsoft fields investing in chronagraphs to avoid falling foul of this).

newby.204 · 17-08-2006 4:41pm

Thanks sparks helpful as ever!!

Sparks · 30-08-2006 1:41pm

From yesterday's Iris Oifigiuil:

S.I. No. 451 of 2006.
FIREARMS ACT 1925 (SURRENDER OF FIREARMS
AND OFFENSIVE WEAPONS) ORDER 2006.
Notice is hereby given that the Minister for Justice, Equality
and Law Reform has made an Order entitled as above. This
Order has been made under section 25A (inserted by section 46
of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006) of the
Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925).

jaycee · 31-08-2006 12:42am

Ok.. !

Any further details ...?
I presume this relates to nasty knives and illegal firearms etc...

Rovi · 31-08-2006 8:46am

From the RTE website ((http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0831/crime.html)-

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]Weapons amnesty details to be announced[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]
31 August 2006 07:22[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

Details of an amnesty for holders of unlicensed firearms and offensive weapons are to be given today by the Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The amnesty begins tomorrow and will last for at least two months.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It will allow people with unlicensed firearms or illegal weapons to dispose of them without facing prosecution but excludes weapons that have been used for criminal purposes.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Signed into law by the President Mary Mc Aleese in July the Criminal Justice Act is designed to boost anti-crime measures, it strengthens laws on firearms and includes a mandatory minimum custodial sentence for some firearms offences.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Included in the act is the weapons amnesty. Guns, knives and offensive weapons will be covered, but excluded are weapons that have been used for criminal purposes.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]From November the strengthened laws on firearms possession will take effect.

[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Britain a similar scheme was launched in 2003 and more than 43,000 guns were handed over during that scheme. [/FONT]

..and from the Irish Independent (http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=9&si=97572)-

McDowell to announce details of two-month gun amnesty
07:14 Thursday August 31st 2006

Justice Minister Michael McDowell is set to announce a two-month firearms amnesty today in advance of the introduction of tougher new laws on gun crime. The amnesty will get underway tomorrow and will allow members of the public to surrender illegally held guns without being prosecuted for not having a licence.

However, it will not include any immunity from prosecution for more serious gun crime.

The weapons, which must be handed into Gardai, will be examined by ballistics experts to see if they have been used in any crimes.

Earlier this year, the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors came out against the idea of a weapons amnesty, saying hardened criminals were unlikely to give up their guns.

Mr McDowell himself has also said he believes the initiative will have little effect on gun crime as it will be ignored by criminal gangs.

Sparks · 31-08-2006 10:45am

Pretty much what we were expecting really. I just posted to let people know it had been officially announced.

Rovi · 31-08-2006 11:15am

Interestingly, I notice that the RTE report has been edited (and re-time stamped "31 August 2006 09:03"), and the "but excluded are weapons that have been used for criminal purposes" part has been removed.

I wonder what the thinking behind the edit was?
RTE hardly think that if they remove that bit, the bad guys will hand in their hardware and get 'caught out' when it's tested, do they?

.

Vegeta · 31-08-2006 12:11pm

Rovi wrote:

Interestingly, I notice that the RTE report has been edited (and re-time stamped "31 August 2006 09:03"), and the "but excluded are weapons that have been used for criminal purposes" part has been removed.

I wonder what the thinking behind the edit was?
RTE hardly think that if they remove that bit, the bad guys will hand in their hardware and get 'caught out' when it's tested, do they?

.

In fairness though if I or anyone found a pistol on the streets of limerick that had been used in a crime (unknowingly to me) and I decided to hand it in, get one more gun off the streets ya know, how on earth would they go about proving I was the one who used it in the crime it is tied to.

Would they swab me for GSR and take my prints ala CSI

Completely hypothetical by the way

Rovi · 31-08-2006 12:21pm

Vegeta wrote:

Completely hypothetical by the way

Interesting hypothetical.
The thing is, in my case (any many others here, I suspect), I probably would have GSR of some sort on me

.

Sparks · 31-08-2006 12:24pm

I think in that case Veg, you wouldn't need an amnesty as the firearm wasn't in your possession as such, you were merely handing in lost property...

Vegeta · 31-08-2006 12:25pm

Rovi wrote:

The thing is, in my case (any many others here, I suspect), I probably would have GSR of some sort on me

.

Good point!!!!

Vegeta · 31-08-2006 12:30pm

Sparks wrote:

I think in that case Veg, you wouldn't need an amnesty as the firearm wasn't in your possession as such, you were merely handing in lost property...

But then any criminal who was trying to get rid of a "piece" could just turn up at the local and say "yeah...I just..am...found, yeah that's it, i found this gun on the street and just want to hand it in to be destroyed"

I think the whole thing is a bit of a joke really.

I know the gardai cant just let guns used in crimes be handed in willy nilly but i cant see how they'd ever prove that the person handing it in was the person who used it in the crime.

Will they also test fire and cross reference every single firearm that gets handed in???

Rovi · 31-08-2006 12:30pm

Rovi wrote:

Interestingly, I notice that the RTE report has been edited (and re-time stamped "31 August 2006 09:03"), and the "but excluded are weapons that have been used for criminal purposes" part has been removed..

Hmmm...
It's been edited again (but still retains the 09:03 timestamp!).

The "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]but excludes weapons that have been used for criminal purposes" bit is back, along with: "[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Included in the act is the weapons amnesty. Guns, knives and offensive weapons will be covered."

.
[/FONT]

Pickyournose · 03-09-2006 11:14pm

People should speak out against this oppressive nonsense legislation and demand laws/rights similiar to the 2nd Amendment in the U.S. here in Ireland and all over the E.U.!

BryanL · 20-01-2007 5:49pm

just asking,
but does an airgun over one joule have the same status as any other firearm?and is it going to be possible to hunt vermin with one.it also seems like it'd be very hard to get a second gun in the same calibre without very good reason?
the act doesn't seem to mention anything about bringing guns into the country or importing guns,does anyone know anything about that?
thanks for any info. Bryan

Sparks · 20-01-2007 6:24pm

An airgun over one joule has precisely the same status as any other firearm, legally.

There aren't any restrictions I'm aware of as to what you hunt vermin with. That's not to definitively say there are none though. Anyone else help out here?

Bringing guns in and out is a bit grey. There are import certs that the DoJ want filled out, but technically if you have your licence, you don't need to so long as you're going across the border with them yourself. Any of the firearms dealers on the board can give you a better idea.

babybundy · 21-02-2007 9:57pm

( d ) the possession or carriage of a firearm or ammunition in the ordinary course of business by a person engaged in the business of carrying or of warehousing goods for reward;
if i'm reading this right this means a private secuity company (securicor) could apply for afirearms licences
The Commissioner, on application and payment of the prescribed fee (if any), may issue to a person over 14 years of age a certificate (in this Act referred to as a “firearms training certificate”) authorising the person to possess a firearm and ammunition (except a restricted firearm and restricted ammunition) only while—

i thought the age was 16 before

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Firearms Acts 1925-2006

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