Buying bitcoins

pro_gnostic_8 · 06-05-2017 7:01pm

cnocbui wrote: »

People aren't buying alt coins for their features, they are just gambling/speculating.

Dunno about other people, but I bought Ethereum and lesser amounts of Golem, Factom, and Monero mainly for their features. Same as when I first bought Bitcoin back in 2013 -- for its features. Of course, there is an element of speculation involved, I can't deny, but I would only buy a coin if its attributes appealed to me.

I think Etherium is just a Bitcoin proxy that people saw as cheaper than Bitcoin so piled in. People aren't buying it because they have lots of smart contracts they want to implement.

Look, I love Bitcoin, I really do, but I am gradually being priced out of it. Two days ago, I paid a transaction fee of €1.90 on a transferral of €20 worth of bitcoin so that it would go through in a reasonable timeframe. If I didn't, I could expect to wait up to 72 hours for a confirmation. Ridiculous.
I think Bitcoin will always hold its place as an investment vehicle and a store of wealth, but that Ethereum will become the daily workhorse of the internet.

pro_gnostic_8 · 06-05-2017 10:46pm

An hour ago, I conducted my first ever Ethereum transaction.
I withdrew and transferred 10 ETH (910 euro) from Poloniex exchange into my Trezor wallet. The transaction fee was 0.004 ETH -- approx 36 cent. The 10 ETH arrived in my Trezor in just under three minutes.
I am well impressed.

chipfox · 07-05-2017 12:58pm

Are you hoping to stake you ETH to use the network for free in the future or are you hoping to sell your ETH for BTC/EUR profits? Ethereum isn't a currency and lots of blockchains are cheaper to use than the BTC chain.

You can send a billion dogecoin (~1.1 million euros) for 1 doge (about 1/10th of 1 cent) and it will confirm in a minute.

crowseye · 07-05-2017 5:38pm

Hi everyone, I'm sure some of you will remember me mentioning an upcoming cryptocurrency that I am involved in as a beta tester and a video I promised I would share when I could. Here it is:

Here's a link to the website aswell http://www.radix.global. The forums are currently being updated to prepare for the upcoming release and I will link it to anyone who's interested once it's ready. Any questions you have should probably be directed there as I am not an expert by any means and I don't want to give anyone incorrect information but I am really excited about the potential of the project

As Dan says in the video, there is tech he can't discuss currently being patented, related to Radix and I can't wait to see what people think of it when he can release more information. I've been following this project for a number of years now and I really can't express how excited I am to see it finally coming to fruition

hankbell · 07-05-2017 5:59pm

Hi Dohnjoe sorry to drag the convo back a couple pages but did you manage to find out any more on this? I'm curious about tax implications on any profits in Ireland and how they're managed or what needs to be done. Thanks!
(can't seem to quote your original post or tag you...)

makeorbrake · 07-05-2017 6:47pm

@crowseye : In a couple of words, what do you sum up the benefit of this new 'coin' to be over other crypto's?

chipfox · 07-05-2017 7:02pm

hankbell wrote: »

Hi Dohnjoe sorry to drag the convo back a couple pages but did you manage to find out any more on this? I'm curious about tax implications on any profits in Ireland and how they're managed or what needs to be done. Thanks!
(can't seem to quote your original post or tag you...)

Capital Gains Tax. Or you can be clever and withdraw it all from a bitcoin casino and say you won it all. Tax free. Probably not legal but can't really be proven.

pro_gnostic_8 · 07-05-2017 9:46pm

chipfox wrote: »

Are you hoping to stake you ETH to use the network for free in the future or are you hoping to sell your ETH for BTC/EUR profits? Ethereum isn't a currency and lots of blockchains are cheaper to use than the BTC chain.

Yes, I must admit I'm primarily speculating/investing. I'll sell 'em when if the price ever reaches around $150. I can't see myself using the blockchain or the Ethereum Virtual Machine for computational purposes. Not savvy enough or not coding-literate enough!

Ethereum isn't a currency and lots of blockchains are cheaper to use than the BTC chain.

No indeed, it is a not currency per se ( although it is the token required to buy "gas" to pay for specific actions on the EVM). But it is tradable on exchanges as you are aware. And the imminent implentation of Raiden will enable micropayments via the Ethereum blockchain and asset-transfers (payments/remittances) at a lightning speed and at a rate of a milion transfers per second. As well, I understand that some innovative companies are working on a protocol to accept ETH as purchase payment for product.

crowseye · 08-05-2017 8:11am

makeorbrake wrote: »

@crowseye : In a couple of words, what do you sum up the benefit of this new 'coin' to be over other crypto's?

It's not based on a blockchain but on distributed ledger technology, so it doesn't have the issues a lot of coins that use the blockchain have such as issues with scalability, security and handling large amounts of transactions like we see today with bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies.

Confirmation times for transactions are in milliseconds and it can handle more transactions than pretty much anything else out there from what I have seen. You can check out the twitter account RadixDLT where load tests are performed.

Its completely decentralized and unlike other currencies aims to keep a stable value for the currency long term. So you might not see the huge price jumps and falls that you would see in other cryptos and pumps and dumps, it should be pretty steady in price hopefully which should make it more appealing to people who are looking for stability and long term growth over a quick buck.

I'm also really excited about the technology that Dan is currently patenting related to Radix and its potential use in the future.

That's just some of the reasons why I'm excited for it, and like I said I'm no expert the video will give you a better idea why Radix could have the potential to stand out in a crowded market.

Pivot Eoin · 08-05-2017 8:34am

Stupid Question guys, so apologies:

On Belgacoin, does the money appear in your wallet as soon as the transfer goes through? I see money taken out of my account, but nothing appearing in Belgacoin. Thanks, want to purchase more today.

Arciphel · 08-05-2017 9:05am

Anyone affected by the Kraken DDOS last night?

pro_gnostic_8 · 08-05-2017 9:15am

Is that what it was?
I was wondering this morning whilst looking at the overnight graphs why the very large dip across ALL the main coins -- BTC, ETH, Monero, Dash. All fell very sharply and in unison at around 00.30 am on Kraken.
Looking at the graphs for a couple of other exchanges, it looks like prices were largely unaffected.
(Yeah, just reading the forums now and it seems it was a strong and determined attack on Kraken).
I reckon a lot of people were burned by this -- people getting margin called etc.

cnocbui · 08-05-2017 9:39am

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

Stupid Question guys, so apologies:

On Belgacoin, does the money appear in your wallet as soon as the transfer goes through? I see money taken out of my account, but nothing appearing in Belgacoin. Thanks, want to purchase more today.

No. Expect 24hrs for most native Irish banks. I know that with AIB, they will deduct the money from your account, say at 10 am, but they queue up all the transfers and process them as a batch in the late afternoon. The receiving bank then will have it's own delays in processing the incoming transfers and crediting it to Belgacoin's account the next day.

Rabo bank process their SWIFTs at 13:15, so if you do a transfer at 10 am, the receiving bank will get it that day and will have time to process it before the close of business, remembering that they are already an hour ahead on the continent.

SWIFT - only in name!

pro_gnostic_8 · 08-05-2017 9:44am

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

Thanks, want to purchase more today.

You're buying when the coin is at an All Time High pricepoint, but you already know that.

cnocbui · 08-05-2017 10:15am

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

You're buying when the coin is at an All Time High pricepoint, but you already know that.

The reason it's at that all time high point would appear to be that there is greater demand than supply. I think there are a lot of new people queing up, trying to get into cryptos at the moment.

So when do you expect it to fall and by how much? In that latest and most recent dip, the poor thing couldn't even get below ?1250 and now it's just about hit ?1480 a couple minutes ago. The steepness of that rise suggests to me it may well dip again, but I doubt by much or for long.

Didn't you just buy some Etherium - strictly for it's technical qualities of course - at pretty much an all-time high?

pro_gnostic_8 · 08-05-2017 10:31am

No, I had ETH at $32; finally got around to withdrawing it from Poloniex yesterday -- because my Trezor cold-storage wallet couldn't accept it ( Trezor only updated the firmware to incorporate ETH recently).
Anyway, I' not trying to be judgemental about Eoin's decision to buy at this time. It's his move -- he wants bitcoin and is prepared to pay for it. Good luck to him! I just think that buying at an ATH pint is never a sound move. Buy at the dips. Which is why I don't understand why he doesn't just sign up to an exchange like Bitstamp to enable him to put in buy orders at a lowball price. You can often strike very lucky in the these notoriously wildly fluctuating crypto markets.
I bought once on Localcbitcoins at the prevailing rate. But never again. Exchanges all the way now for me.

hankbell · 08-05-2017 11:36am

chipfox wrote: »

Capital Gains Tax. Or you can be clever and withdraw it all from a bitcoin casino and say you won it all. Tax free. Probably not legal but can't really be proven.

Thanks @chipfox , that's interesting alright. I was just curious whether or not it is charged as CGT because of this response from the Irish finance minister a few years ago. Here's a quote you've all probably read already before:

"Crypto-currencies, such as Bitcoin, are not legal tender in the Euro area. E-commerce, including the use of virtual currencies, presents a challenge to tax administrations throughout the world. The Revenue Commissioners and tax administrations in other countries are actively monitoring developments. From the information provided, it is not clear how Bitcoin would be treated for CGT purposes. However, it is likely that gains accruing from speculation on Bitcoin would be liable for CGT in the normal way."

That reply doesn't exactly say it is treated this way as I guess it's not seen as legal tender yet. It seems just to speculate that it might one day be that profits made on BC will be treated under CGT.

Am I just understanding this incorrectly or are we certain that BC is seen as legal tender and is taxed as CGT?

cheers!

cnocbui · 08-05-2017 11:41am

hankbell wrote: »

Thanks @chipfox , that's interesting alright. I was just curious whether or not it is charged as CGT because of this response from the Irish finance minister a few years ago. Here's a quote you've all probably read already before:

"Crypto-currencies, such as Bitcoin, are not legal tender in the Euro area. E-commerce, including the use of virtual currencies, presents a challenge to tax administrations throughout the world. The Revenue Commissioners and tax administrations in other countries are actively monitoring developments. From the information provided, it is not clear how Bitcoin would be treated for CGT purposes. However, it is likely that gains accruing from speculation on Bitcoin would be liable for CGT in the normal way."

That reply doesn't exactly say it is treated this way as I guess it's not seen as legal tender yet. It seems just to speculate that it might one day be that profits made on BC will be treated under CGT.

Am I just understanding this incorrectly or are we certain that BC is seen as legal tender and is taxed as CGT?

cheers!

Property isn't legal tender, neither are antiques or shares, but that doesn't excuse a realised appreciation in their value from CGT.

I am certain in my mind, at least, that there is no doubt that a realised gain in value with Bitcoin will be treated by Revenue just the same as any other asset.

cnocbui · 08-05-2017 4:28pm

Well that certainly has some really big horns on it: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/08/bitcoin-price-hits-record-high-and-4000-is-ahead-investor-says.html

Also saw a comment by a chartist on Reddit who thinks there might be a bit a of temporary pull back, which echos what is in the article. Here's hoping it happens, as I wouldn't mind taking advantage.

Pivot Eoin · 09-05-2017 1:15pm

When is this so called pulled back meant to happen?

cnocbui · 09-05-2017 2:06pm

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

When is this so called pulled back meant to happen?

I'm not touching that with a barge-pole. :P

I was just repeating what I had read: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/69vvo8/daily_discussion_monday_may_08_2017/dha7sd5/

Plus the CNBC article link I already gave. I later saw comments that some considered the CNBC article to be commercial schilling.
There might not be a correction; there could be one in 5 minutes.

Keep in mind with Belgacoin, you are buying based on the current price in 8-36 hrs time when they receive funds. It is the one major snag when using them.

chipfox · 09-05-2017 10:34pm

Poloniex is a sea of red. Not surprising really. Gamble on stocks (or even penny stocks) if you want to hit those mental daily returns, or lose everything. If you buy something called pepecash you should expect to get burned.

pro_gnostic_8 · 10-05-2017 9:14am

chipfox wrote: »

Poloniex is a sea of red. Not surprising really. Gamble on stocks (or even penny stocks) if you want to hit those mental daily returns, or lose everything.

A sea of red as against Bitcoin, surely?
As Bitcoin is the counterparty trading pair against all these alts, when Bitcoin rises dramatically (as it has in the last 96 hours), then, the value of these altcoins as denoted against Bitcoin must drop.
But, against the dollar, there is no noticeable price drop in the top four or five alts.
Right now, Ethereum is up 12% overnight against the dollar.
Monero has hit a new ATH of $30, up 16% overnight.
Dash at $93.50, again a rise of 16% in 24 hours.
All is chill.

The Cuban · 10-05-2017 11:17am

Made my weekly Bitcoin purchase again, I`m getting less and less for my money as the value keeps rising. I think I may have paid the all time high for Bitcoin but thats just the way it works if you are adding every week
My crypto investments are now bigger than all my other savings combined which is totally nuts when I only ever started doing this as a side hobby

crowseye · 10-05-2017 11:22am

What types of crypto do you own Cuban out of interest? Is it just bitcoin or are you invested in alts aswell?

The Cuban · 10-05-2017 11:32am

I have mainly Bitcoin and Ether. I held Dash at one stage but it was the only one I sold mainly because I didnt really believe in it and it had made huge gains.
so at the moment its as follows
Bitcoin 70%
Ether 20%
Monero 8%
Gnosis 2%

Roughly my holding percentages.

Dohnjoe · 10-05-2017 12:52pm

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

A sea of red as against Bitcoin, surely?
As Bitcoin is the counterparty trading pair against all these alts, when Bitcoin rises dramatically (as it has in the last 96 hours), then, the value of these altcoins as denoted against Bitcoin must drop.
But, against the dollar, there is no noticeable price drop in the top four or five alts.
Right now, Ethereum is up 12% overnight against the dollar.
Monero has hit a new ATH of $30, up 16% overnight.
Dash at $93.50, again a rise of 16% in 24 hours.
All is chill.

It appears the Alt crash caused a BTC rise

As the DDOS hit (and some big shorts were noticed), the overall prices of alts started to plummet - the first thing that most traders did was immediately convert their alts back into "safety", and in the case of most exchanges that is BTC, thus raising the price

Want to raise the price of BTC? hire botnet and DDOS the main exchanges (and place some nice big shorts in the most volatile alts)

Unfortunately it looks like we'll see this happen again in the future

Dohnjoe · 10-05-2017 1:11pm

chipfox wrote: »

Poloniex is a sea of red. Not surprising really. Gamble on stocks (or even penny stocks) if you want to hit those mental daily returns, or lose everything. If you buy something called pepecash you should expect to get burned.

It's rebounded already (I'm up 15% on a investment made 5 days ago, which includes the crash)

Likewise I bought into LTC in 2013 at 22, it dropped as low as 2 or 3 and stayed there for several years. It's now 35 and climbing

These aren't companies (shares) that go bust - cryptos can rebound

Tar.Aldarion · 10-05-2017 1:57pm

How should you store these, I have some wallet on a site but surely access to that would go with the site? Never really looked into this, I was paid 100 a couple years back and they asked could they do it in bitcoin, it's worth nearly 900 now when i checked today. Guess I should store offline.

cnocbui · 10-05-2017 2:36pm

You should definitely set up a wallet and transfer your bitcoin from the site wallet to one on your computer or phone in case the site gets hacked and you lose your bitcoin.

Personally I have found Electrum to work well as a wallet.

I initially read your post as meaning you had been paid a 100 bitcoin and nearly choked. Then I realised you must have meant 100 euro's worth.

900% profit - not bad.

Buying bitcoins

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