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Buying bitcoins

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    #1202
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    DeSelby83 wrote: »
    It's gone from $16 to $21 in last 48 hours or so
    Ok, and by comparison with the rest?


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    #1203
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,831 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    makeorbrake wrote: »
    Ok, and by comparison with the rest?

    54% increase in the last 7 days, just ahead of Eth and ETC


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    #1204
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    54% increase in the last 7 days, just ahead of Eth and ETC

    Fair enough - it was a few days ago I looked at it and litecoin wasn't making the same level of progress as the rest of them. Presumably, it picked up a bit since then.

    Phenomenal growth with BTC and crypto's generally over the past few days though - unreal. By all accounts, it's the Japanese driving the BTC trading.


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    #1205
    boardie100
    Registered Users Posts: 387 ✭✭boardie100


    has anyone cashed in recently?.... whats the tax implication on these?...


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    #1206
    The Cuban
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭The Cuban


    33% on the profit
    that's if your fool enough to have to.
    I`ll never give them a cent, as far as I`m concerned I bought them with my own earned cash that I already payed tax on. They can f-off for themselves, they have no way of knowing how many Bitcoins I have, I`ll never "Cash out" as you say.
    For me Bitcoin gives the two fingers to all the establishment :-Banks, Governments, Politicians, the landed Gentry, and all other establishments that ride on the back of ordinary people


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    #1207
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,831 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The Cuban wrote: »
    33% on the profit
    that's if your fool enough to have to.
    I`ll never give them a cent, as far as I`m concerned I bought them with my own earned cash that I already payed tax on. They can f-off for themselves, they have no way of knowing how many Bitcoins I have, I`ll never "Cash out" as you say.
    For me Bitcoin gives the two fingers to all the establishment :-Banks, Governments, Politicians, the landed Gentry, and all other establishments that ride on the back of ordinary people

    Exactly, nothing makes me angrier than those corrupt politicians and gentry dodging taxes with their offshore commodity holdings! :pac:

    All joking aside, I'm in Europe, if I hold off for a year, I don't pay tax on any profit


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    #1208
    DeSelby83
    Registered Users Posts: 2,557 ✭✭✭DeSelby83


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    The Cuban wrote: »
    33% on the profit
    that's if your fool enough to have to.
    I`ll never give them a cent, as far as I`m concerned I bought them with my own earned cash that I already payed tax on. They can f-off for themselves, they have no way of knowing how many Bitcoins I have, I`ll never "Cash out" as you say.
    For me Bitcoin gives the two fingers to all the establishment :-Banks, Governments, Politicians, the landed Gentry, and all other establishments that ride on the back of ordinary people

    Exactly, nothing makes me angrier than those corrupt politicians and gentry dodging taxes with their offshore commodity holdings! :pac:

    All joking aside, I'm in Europe, if I hold off for a year, I don't pay tax on any profit

    How does this work exactly. I've had the thought recently. In the next few years if I want to cash out a couple of grand how is tax formulated or what is it classed as. Is it classed as the same a 'typical' stock market investment?


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    #1209
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,831 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    DeSelby83 wrote: »
    How does this work exactly. I've had the thought recently. In the next few years if I want to cash out a couple of grand how is tax formulated or what is it classed as. Is it classed as the same a 'typical' stock market investment?

    Will be paying the tax office (Europe) a visit soon, will be asking them a few general questions about this


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    #1210
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I'm sure the profit is taxed at the normal income rate. For me bitcoin isn't an investment, it is just a way to buy stuff, so I will just spend it on stuff instead of spending my wages.


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    #1211
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,981 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I'm pretty sure any profit on 'trading' bitcoin would be treated the same as any other investment, namely it would attract capital gains tax and would not be rated the same as income.

    If you used BTC to directly buy other stuff, then that wouldn't be a capital gain.

    Normally I would think tax should be paid, but since DIRT is closer to crime, than a tax, I think they deserve everything they don't get.


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    #1212
    Roonbox
    Registered Users Posts: 498 ✭✭Roonbox


    Grumpypants wrote: »
    I'm sure the profit is taxed at the normal income rate. For me bitcoin isn't an investment, it is just a way to buy stuff, so I will just spend it on stuff instead of spending my wages.
    Seriously?
    Do you find Bitcoin more convenient than cash for purchases?


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    #1213
    The Cuban
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭The Cuban


    Ethereum is really rocketing over the last few days, Daily gains of 10%+, this is heading for at least half the MCAP of Bitcoin. Its a good thing its not a direct competitor of bitcoin. I`m happily invested in both :D


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    #1214
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,813 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Roonbox wrote: »
    Seriously?
    Do you find Bitcoin more convenient than cash for purchases?

    Depends, face to face cash is king. Otherwise, bitcoin is a million times better. Trying sending cash to Germany in 2 seconds. Even a bank transfer has to be done before 3pm to arrive the next morning.


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    #1215
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,831 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Grumpypants wrote: »
    Depends, face to face cash is king. Otherwise, bitcoin is a million times better. Trying sending cash to Germany in 2 seconds. Even a bank transfer has to be done before 3pm to arrive the next morning.

    Crypto-currency values are based on their potential future value/use (typically alongside traditional currency rather than trying to replace it)

    The blockchain and distributed ledger tech behind is potentially industry changing for banks and market infrastructure

    It took 20 years for paper stocks to go digital. On any big/macro scale this stuff is a long way off, i.e. you're not going to be able to feed/cloth/pay rent/utilities/mortgage/pension any time soon with an unregulated, volatile, risky, unstable digital currency that is susceptible to forks, hacks, complete market manipulation


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    #1216
    scamalert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    The blockchain and distributed ledger tech behind is potentially industry changing for banks and market infrastructure

    It took 20 years for paper stocks to go digital. On any big/macro scale this stuff is a long way off,

    i fail to grasp what does actually blockchain offer to any institution or person ?

    id imagine banks use secure protocols, and have some sort of WAN setup.security wise ssh2048bit is almost impossible to crack, then you have https protocols.

    we spoke of sepa being slow, thats only system that is slow, but given its nature of usage in many cases its used for large transactions thus my guess is some sort of monitoring before finalizing transaction to go trough, then actual delay in infrastructure, since seems means of using card payments, paypal happen instantly and banks are very rarely hacked.Someone mentioned 2seconds to transfer funds to germany,but if ordering smth its no matter really if its extra day since shipping isnt 2 seconds.Id imagine if one is struck for few hundred euro in case of emergency they would still use likes of western union, which is instant.

    found app Weechat that is almost fully used by most people in Asia, its same as facebook and payapl combined, you scan qr and send funds in seconds, topping up via bank, mobile and being able to pay all bills or expenses.

    So literally dozen options worldwide are used to make transactions via different forms, and dont understand if blockchain is so great why its not used already given its open source ?

    I understand anonymous nature of using such method where theres no names attached but why would someone in business want that.


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    #1217
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,831 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    scamalert wrote: »
    i fail to grasp what does actually blockchain offer to any institution or person ?

    Essentially in any bank, and especially in market infrastructure, everything is run in a line - with multiple points/checks along that line

    When something goes wrong, it has to be identified which part of the chain had the issue, then they have to potentially reverse each component and go back to the point where the issue occurred

    This requires a vast amount of people, departments and resources, and it's done on a myriad of systems ranging from 80's to modern windows based browsers - not to mention multiple players; csd's, correspondents, transfer agents, etc

    Blockchain and the concept of a digital distributed ledger offer the potential to streamline the hell out of that, trim the fat, modernise it, etc

    Obviously they are still in the "tinkering" phase, but most large banks have projects up and running to test and produce future systems that can use the tech with the hopes of implementing it themselves - they are taking it very seriously because of the potential savings it could offer them

    Then there is stuff like Ethereum, which offers the opportunity of "smart contracts".. I'm not super well versed on it yet, but basically it works like "smart money" with the inbuilt ability to do secure complex transactions, e.g. with escrow accounts


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    #1218
    pro_gnostic_8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭pro_gnostic_8


    The Cuban wrote: »
    Ethereum is really rocketing over the last few days, Daily gains of 10%+, this is heading for at least half the MCAP of Bitcoin. Its a good thing its not a direct competitor of bitcoin.
    But it is ! ( A serious challenger to Bitcoin). :)
    This guy from the online financial journal "The Street" in an article yesterday opines that Ethereum will even prove to be a Bitcoin Killer. QUOTE: "I continue to believe the Ethereum technology will displace Bitcoin entirely and that it is still in the very early phases of its adoption, expansion and value increase".
    http://realmoney.thestreet.com/articles/05/03/2017/ill-say-it-again-ethereum-beats-bitcoin


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    #1219
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    scamalert wrote: »
    i fail to grasp what does actually blockchain offer to any institution or person ?........

    .

    Huge savings n stuff for the shipping industry too


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    #1220
    The Cuban
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭The Cuban


    No its not a challenger to Bitcoin, as Antonopoulos put it, Bitcoin is a Tiger, Ethereum is a shark, they will never compete directly with each other, how can a tiger fight a shark? if its in water then the shark wins, on land the tiger.
    Ethereum will never be able to scale the same as Bitcoin, nor bitcoin run smart contracts like Ethereum.
    Either way I`m invested in both and happy to do so


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    #1221
    The Cuban
    Closed Accounts Posts: 492 ✭✭The Cuban


    scamalert wrote: »
    i fail to grasp what does actually blockchain offer to any institution or person ?

    Ah seriously dude. Come on


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    #1222
    scamalert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    i think pro gnostic has a valid claim, its exposure and bringing to market that matters,etherum from limited articles seems has drawn in people that want to get it into the open.

    theres no sharks or tigers or other nonsense.Its whatever will be made simple and accessible to masses that will take the ranks eventually when it comes to global crypto currency.


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    #1223
    pro_gnostic_8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭pro_gnostic_8


    The Cuban wrote: »
    Ethereum will never be able to scale the same as Bitcoin,
    But Bitcoin's big flaw at the moment is just that -- an inability to scale in response to increased consumer demand. This scaleability ( or lack of) issue has now brought us to the stage of increased fees, increased transaction times of up to 48 hours per tx, over a 100,000 "waiting" transactions in the mempool at any one time. The dirty little secret of Bitcoin is that it is broken as far as day-to-day transactions are concerned; and the matter won't be fixed until the civil war between B.U and Segwit is resolved. Which might be next year or the one after.
    So to compare scaling in ETH unfavourably with that of Bitcoin is a bit disingenuous, imo.


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    #1224
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    scamalert wrote: »
    i fail to grasp what does actually blockchain offer to any institution or person ?

    I've put this to you before and to a couple of others. If you can't see any redeeming qualities in blockchain or btc, why in the name of ... would you invest in it? Please book a flight to Vegas, check in to Bellagio, enjoy the 'free' drinks and make yourself comfortable at the roulette table. Idle speculation for the sake of speculation - it adds no value and only serves to falsely represent the item in question ...in this case, bitcoin.


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    #1225
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »
    So to compare scaling in ETH unfavourably with that of Bitcoin is a bit disingenuous, imo.
    IF BTC core win out and implement segwit within say...the next six months - and that proves to solve the scalability issue (at least in the short-medium term), is ETH then still a threat to it?


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    #1226
    Pivot Eoin
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Pivot Eoin


    Just bought my first €25.00 of Bitcoin (Max Allowed) on Belgacoin. Wish me luck! Complete noob to this. But after huge recommendations from a trusted client i decided to jump in.

    Anyone know where I can buy it safely peer to peer in larger volume?


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    #1227
    pro_gnostic_8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭pro_gnostic_8


    Well done, and good luck !
    You've taken the first step in building the ancestral family fortune for the generations to come. In a hundred years, your descendants will be visiting great-grandaddy Eoin's grave on each anniversary to celebrate his foresight in buying his first bitcoin. By then it will be worth over €100,000,000 per coin. (So the exerts say, anyway). :)

    You can buy peer-to-peer on Localbitcoins, but it is an expensive methodology. You will pay a significant premium over prevailing spot price.


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    #1228
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,981 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Pivot Eoin wrote: »
    Just bought my first ?25.00 of Bitcoin (Max Allowed) on Belgacoin. Wish me luck! Complete noob to this. But after huge recommendations from a trusted client i decided to jump in.

    Anyone know where I can buy it safely peer to peer in larger volume?

    Once you have done a €25 transaction on Belgacoin you can then buy in volume from them. Peer to peer Safely? Good luck.

    Belgacoin seem safe at volume.


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    #1229
    Pivot Eoin
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Pivot Eoin


    Good stuff, thanks for the input. Have also setup on Bitsquare, but good to know about Belgacoin.


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    #1230
    pro_gnostic_8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭pro_gnostic_8


    makeorbrake wrote: »
    IF BTC core win out and implement segwit within say...the next six months - and that proves to solve the scalability issue (at least in the short-medium term), is ETH then still a threat to it?
    It's a big "IF", Makeorbrake !
    If by some miracle Segwit is activated this year, then that does not automatically and immediately solve the congestion issues. (It would of course smooth the path for implementation of Lightning Network and other upgrades which should address the problem). In two years, maybe?

    In that scenario, is ETH still a threat to Bitcoin? (I'm reluctant to use the term "Threat" -- I prefer "challenger" to bitcoin's market cap).
    Yes, I think it will be. Ethereum is faster, slicker, and more flexible; it also offers uses and applications ( smart contracts, etc) that are not possible using the Bitcoin protocol. Bitcoin certainly has first-to-market advantage and currently greater network effect, but may change in the future.


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    #1231
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,981 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I think Etherium is just a Bitcoin proxy that people saw as cheaper than Bitcoin so piled in. People aren't buying it because they have lots of smart contracts they want to implement.

    People aren't buying alt coins for their features, they are just gambling/speculating. They are all just different coloured chips in a casino.


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