M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

Deedsie wrote: »

I didn't suggest tolling the M7 widening. I just suggest a toll on the M50 South. Free flow the same as the one at the Northern section. Or a new toll somewhere along the N11/M11.

I've asked you where a few times, but you've no suggestions.There would be a huge amount of rat running to avoid a toll on the N/M11 and a significant decrease in road safety as a result.

Carawaystick wrote: »

I've asked you where a few times, but you've no suggestions.There would be a huge amount of rat running to avoid a toll on the N/M11 and a significant decrease in road safety as a result.

I dunno really... I just think to balance payments for motorists it should be considered. A free flow toll would be the only option. Junction 15 South. Where you come on to the M50 and get off should dictate the payment

Deleted User wrote: »

Who's commuting by car from Cork to Dublin ?

A toll on the M9 around Naas would help fund a rail upgrade along this route , but I would only accept this if there was a proper rail network with frequent train times. A toll would then probably convince people to take the train.

Plenty of people from Cork travel for work in Dublin. Not Daily but I work with a guy who is in our office at least once a week. Drives to the red cow park and ride, Luas to abbey street and walks from there.

Deleted User wrote: »

Is that for work he travels to Dublin once a week ?

So, I travel to Cork/Limerick/Galway/Belfast sometimes and pay tolls ? doesn't bother me, I rather that than have to travel through every tiny village sitting in traffic for hours.

no he vacattions in our office.... Of course he travels up for work. You are happy to pay a toll and sit in traffic, good for you. I am just advocating new tolls to areas that for some strange reason the government decided to not toll. (The wealthiest part of the country). There is no justification for another toll on the M7 though. The road is already overly tolled if travelling from the Cork, Clare/Limerick if you have to go under the tunnel on the N20.

Deedsie wrote: »

See you next Tuesday.

On-topic, constructive posts only please.

Moderator

Deleted User wrote: »

No Idea, this is what needs to be found out so a proper public infrastructure can be planned.

If only there was a nationwide periodic survey of where people live, where they work and how they travel to work done once in a while... :rolleyes:


What work is to be done on this scheme? one completely new junction, and a rebuild of an existing junction?
and D3M

There's 2 abp approvals. Is one for the completely new build junction?

The Naas bypass is 10.5 km, while its another 6km to the M9 junction


The M1 widening works (7km) were done in the bottom of the recession, there's surely money to build this widening now, and build the new junction after.

It amazes me they way people go on about tolling on routes such as the M/N7 or likely M11 ( no experience with this one) as a mechanism to "encourage" people to leave their cars at home and take public transport instead. The reality is that people have no choice but to take their cars into Dublin if they want to get to work. I live between Sallins & Newbridge (both have which have very good commuter trains) ...but I WON'T use them !!!, why?? Well Let me explain !. I work in Sandyford, to get from my home to work takes approx 40 - 45 min ( if I time it correctly ...and failing accidents / construction) . IF I decided to take public transport I would need to take a train from either Sallins or Newbridge to Heuston, then a Bus / Luas to O'Connell St. , walk to St Stephen Green then finally a Luas to Sandyford, total time > 2 hours. I don't know about the rest of the people on this forum ...but life is short ...I don't want to spend > 4 hours per day getting to and from work. I appreciate that in my case perhaps it's a little awkward to get form Home to Work but I sense that there are an awful lot of people in a very similar situation. Now for those out there whom might suggest ...Why don't you move closer to where you work ???....NO!!!. ....I DO NOT want to live in Dublin !!!..I like where I live . I genuinely would love to leave my car at home but without a reasonable public transport system this won't happen. If I could give an example of what I'd consider a public transport system, if you take the city of Stockholm ( which is approx 300-400k more people that Dublin..ie: it's not that much bigger) then this is a map of their public transport (rail component only) h**p://sl.se/ficktid/karta/vinter/SL_Sp%C3%A5rtrafik.pdf ....I think you'll agree it's a little different. To be fair these people have been building this for decades and you certainly couldn't expect Dublin to produce something remotely like this in a short time , but it's called forward taught, planning and commitment. In the meantime, most park'n'rides that I've visited are free ...except ireland ( don't they want people to use them ??). As for tolling, if I get tolled I'm simply going to pass it on as a salary request to my employer and sooner or later it'll have the effect of driving up employment costs ( double , as it'll be after tax) , so ultimately every looses. I appreciate that somebody has to pay for road construction & maintenance But I believe we already pay rather a lot for car tax , so why are they giving some of it to Irish Water ( sorry , not getting into that here!!)

I'm in exactly the same position... priced out of Dublin (it's like it's 2005 all over again) due to rent hikes and the Government's inaction in dealing with the housing crisis they've created and like Mandraker I am trekking up to Sandyford every day which by car is bearable - and thankfully I can be somewhat flexible in my hours and work from home occasionally - but using public transport would take at least 4 hours a day.. not to mention the expense because it's not exactly cheap either!

The idea that everyone should leave the car at home and spend hours commuting to and from work on our unreliable, costly, and patchy-outside-Dublin public transport system in a country that is busy pushing more and more workers into the surrounding counties again is just nonsense.

mandraker1000 wrote: »

It amazes me they way people go on about tolling on routes such as the M/N7 or likely M11 ( no experience with this one) as a mechanism to "encourage" people to leave their cars at home and take public transport instead. The reality is that people have no choice but to take their cars into Dublin if they want to get to work. I live between Sallins & Newbridge (both have which have very good commuter trains) ...but I WON'T use them !!!, why?? Well Let me explain !. I work in Sandyford, to get from my home to work takes approx 40 - 45 min ( if I time it correctly ...and failing accidents / construction) . IF I decided to take public transport I would need to take a train from either Sallins or Newbridge to Heuston, then a Bus / Luas to O'Connell St. , walk to St Stephen Green then finally a Luas to Sandyford, total time > 2 hours. I don't know about the rest of the people on this forum ...but life is short ...I don't want to spend > 4 hours per day getting to and from work. I appreciate that in my case perhaps it's a little awkward to get form Home to Work but I sense that there are an awful lot of people in a very similar situation. Now for those out there whom might suggest ...Why don't you move closer to where you work ???....NO!!!. ....I DO NOT want to live in Dublin !!!..I like where I live . I genuinely would love to leave my car at home but without a reasonable public transport system this won't happen. If I could give an example of what I'd consider a public transport system, if you take the city of Stockholm ( which is approx 300-400k more people that Dublin..ie: it's not that much bigger) then this is a map of their public transport (rail component only) h**p://sl.se/ficktid/karta/vinter/SL_Sp%C3%A5rtrafik.pdf ....I think you'll agree it's a little different. To be fair these people have been building this for decades and you certainly couldn't expect Dublin to produce something remotely like this in a short time , but it's called forward taught, planning and commitment. In the meantime, most park'n'rides that I've visited are free ...except ireland ( don't they want people to use them ??). As for tolling, if I get tolled I'm simply going to pass it on as a salary request to my employer and sooner or later it'll have the effect of driving up employment costs ( double , as it'll be after tax) , so ultimately every looses. I appreciate that somebody has to pay for road construction & maintenance But I believe we already pay rather a lot for car tax , so why are they giving some of it to Irish Water ( sorry , not getting into that here!!)

Do you think that most people in Stockholm live more than 40km by road or more than 50km by rail from their place of work?

No public transport system in any country would get you to work in less than 90 minutes given the distance you live from your work.

You're the one who needs to do a bit of forward planning - although having completely unrealistic expectations about the ability of public transport to get you from your chosen place of residence to your chosen place of work in a time frame you consider acceptable suggests you don't really grasp the concept.

On your 'point' about car tax - it hasn't been hypothecated (look it up) for decades, if it ever was.

Deleted User wrote: »

Who was suggesting leaving the car at home and taking public transport ?

The only time I suggested that was if the public transport network was good enough.

Wasn't aimed at you but on your point.. public transport isn't, has never been, and probably never will be, adequate for the "Irish situation". It's been that way for certainly the 40 years I've been around!

As dolanbaker points out above, while people may be forced to move further out to put a roof over their heads thanks to spiking rents and limited supply to rent OR buy, their job will most likely be still back in Dublin.. possibly somewhere not easy to get to from "the sticks" like Sandyford, Blanch etc

It happened before a decade ago, and it's happening again and public transport is no better than it was then for these people. PT is fine if you're making a simple A-B trip along a given route... but if you deviate from that, or have to make multiple connections, the time lost and the expense make it more worthwhile to just drive!

The ONLY way to solve both problems is to build up, not out and CPO the empty/abandoned plots of land within the city boundaries to do it. Rather than lowering minimum apartment standards, they should be increased to Euro-spec family sized dwellings with security and local amenities AND transport links in place to make them attractive. Think how many Semi-D's would be freed up by having such apartments available to single people, or students, or childless couples who want to be in the city.

But in Ireland we don't want to live in apartments and we don't want to invest in the rest of the country (with the exception of maybe Cork and Galway) so the reality is that private car traffic (and the problems that come with it) are going to be with us indefinitely and we might as well accept that and plan/develop accordingly, rather than trying to turn the place into Amsterdam or something!