M11 - Arklow to Rathnew

OldMrBrennan83 · 27-07-2015 6:50pm

This post has been deleted.

L1011 · 27-07-2015 7:07pm

Once they're running on road diesel - which you can damn sure they aren't.

Agri diesel is for <50km/h only.

jd · 27-07-2015 7:38pm

I'd say I see cyclists using the motorway on about half my trips to Wexford - normally on a Saturday morning.

road_high · 27-07-2015 7:44pm

jd wrote: »

I'd say I see cyclists using the motorway on about half my trips to Wexford - normally on a Saturday morning.

That is shocking. I travel the M9 daily and never see cyclists, these people are nuts.

OldMrBrennan83 · 27-07-2015 7:47pm

This post has been deleted.

loyatemu · 27-07-2015 7:50pm

road_high wrote:

That is shocking. I travel the M9 daily and never see cyclists, these people are nuts.

It's because the N11 becomes the M11 & cyclists just stay on the road, whereas it's more difficult to get onto the M9.

Schadenfreudia · 28-07-2015 10:11am

L1011 wrote: »

Once they're running on road diesel - which you can damn sure they aren't.

Agri diesel is for <50km/h only.

Which means the restrictions must be totally unenforced because being caught with agri-diesel on the public road is serious enough.

Also, 50kph is a crazily low minimum cruising speed for a motorway; 80pkh would be much safer.

The tractors I've seen are still relatively crawling compared to the HGVs and the rest of the traffic; they often avoid obstructing the traffic by driving in the hard shoulder - which is also illegal.

Carawaystick · 28-07-2015 10:25am

Got an email from the Program and regulatory unit at the nra

the nra wrote:

The alternative route is the Wicklow Town Relief Road and the R772 ( previously the R751)

Alun · 28-07-2015 10:27am

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Also, 50kph is a crazily low minimum cruising speed for a motorway; 80pkh would be much safer.

The problem is though that it is not a minimum speed. All that is required by law is that the vehicle be capable of driving at 50km/h. They could then quite legally potter along at a lower speed if they wanted to. Utter madness.

Cookiemunster · 28-07-2015 11:03am

Alun wrote: »

The problem is though that it is not a minimum speed. All that is required by law is that the vehicle be capable of driving at 50km/h. They could then quite legally potter along at a lower speed if they wanted to. Utter madness.

It is a minimum speed. The signs state No slow vehicles (under 50km/h).

And the ROTR state
You must not enter a motorway if:

• your vehicle cannot travel at a speed of at least 50km per hour;

Alun · 28-07-2015 11:05am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It is a minimum speed. The signs state No slow vehicles (under 50km/h).

That's what it rather simplistically says on the signs, but it's been discussed many times on other forums here (Motors, Transport) that it is not in fact a minimum speed, but a minimum attainable speed.

Alun · 28-07-2015 11:06am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

And the ROTR state
You must not enter a motorway if:

• your vehicle cannot travel at a speed of at least 50km per hour;

Exactly. That's not a minimum speed though.

spacetweek · 28-07-2015 11:38am

L1011 wrote: »

Once they're running on road diesel - which you can damn sure they aren't.

Agri diesel is for <50km/h only.

Are you serious?? You have to use two different types of diesel? That doesn't sound practical?

road_high wrote: »

That is shocking. I travel the M9 daily and never see cyclists, these people are nuts.

I also think it's shocking - I've never seen a cyclist on a motorway in Ireland.

Alun · 28-07-2015 11:44am

spacetweek wrote: »

I also think it's shocking - I've never seen a cyclist on a motorway in Ireland.

I see them quite often on the M11, mainly the section between Fassaroe and the M50/M11 junction. Usually on Sundays and they're usually cycling club members plainly displaying their club names. I've reported them to Bray Gardai station, but you could almost hear them rolling their eyes skyward when I did, so I never expected anything to come of it. I've also reported cars parked in on ramps, and pedestrians crossing the M11 to get lifts from vans parked on the hard shoulder in the morning rush hour and got similar responses.

BigMoose · 28-07-2015 11:58am

Alun wrote: »

I see them quite often on the M11, mainly the section between Fassaroe and the M50/M11 junction. Usually on Sundays and they're usually cycling club members plainly displaying their club names. I've reported them to Bray Gardai station, but you could almost hear them rolling their eyes skyward when I did, so I never expected anything to come of it. I've also reported cars parked in on ramps, and pedestrians crossing the M11 to get lifts from vans parked on the hard shoulder in the morning rush hour and got similar responses.

Yeah, you see all sorts on that section! Blokes walking their horse up the hard shoulder, pedestrians with kids walking along. Tractors and cyclists are the least of the problems along there.

Tractors plodding along in the hard shoulder and cyclists are also common on the Ashford to Rathnew section. Guess as pointed out above, they are legally allowed on the N part and just keep going when it turns M.

Carawaystick · 28-07-2015 4:41pm

The nra have followed up and sent me a map with the R772 draft redesignation shown

the nra wrote:

The route will be the R772, from Ashford to Rathnew then out towards the Wicklow Town Relief road, on to the relief road, through the two sets of traffic lights, then continue on the old R771, now the R772 towards the Beehive. In addition the road from Rathnew Hill is now the L1100.

vickers209 · 28-07-2015 5:13pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The nra have followed up and sent me a map with the R772 draft redesignation shown

They mean continue on the old R751 not 771
So this is why they never gave the relief road a number because it was going to be designinted
The R772 number once they completed the motorway sections.

Next question when are they going to update the road signs to reflect this?

Schadenfreudia · 28-07-2015 6:35pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The nra have followed up and sent me a map with the R772 draft redesignation shown

That makes sense, the unnumbered relief road is the obvious route, not going into Wicklow town centre and back out.

Wonder why the new signs erected at the Beehive make no reference to the R772?

And on the other topic; you definitely see cyclists on the M11 frequently - it is very unusual on other motorways (though not tractors).

But Wickla is "blessed" with the most incompetent Local and other authorities in Ireland by a country mile - IMHO.

loyatemu · 28-07-2015 10:16pm

Schadenfreudia wrote:

And on the other topic; you definitely see cyclists on the M11 frequently - it is very unusual on other motorways (though not tractors).

But Wickla is "blessed" with the most incompetent Local and other authorities in Ireland by a country mile - IMHO.

It's hardly the council's fault people are cycling on the M11. It's the design of the road that encourages cyclists to use it for short cuts, and it's the guards who don't patrol it in any meaningful way.

jd · 28-07-2015 10:25pm

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

That makes sense, the unnumbered relief road is the obvious route, not going into Wicklow town centre and back out.

Wonder why the new signs erected at the Beehive make no reference to the R772?

Had a proper look at the relief road, and yep, it's the best option. I guess they can't resign the roads until they are officially redesignated.
Someone mentioned patched signs - maybe it says R772 under the patch!
Main thing is that there will be a continuous alt route from M11

Schadenfreudia · 28-07-2015 11:16pm

loyatemu wrote: »

It's hardly the council's fault people are cycling on the M11. It's the design of the road that encourages cyclists to use it for short cuts, and it's the guards who don't patrol it in any meaningful way.

I said local and other authorities. 'Cos that is what I meant. :cool:

mackerski · 29-07-2015 12:01pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The nra have followed up and sent me a map with the R772 draft redesignation shown

OK, nice work. I won't look at the map (since I can't use it as a source for OSM), but if the relief road is part of the route and based on the description, are we looking at this routing?

http://osrm.at/dUL

If so, it would be interesting to know whether the preceding part of R750 is also be be renumbered.

What I find very odd about this is that the brand new signs erected at the beehive roundabout (which is itself brand new) refer to the road towards Wicklow as R751. So this will either have to be changed, a waste of money, or will be left like that for ages (typical Irish confusion).

For now, given the prominence of R751 on signs, I'm going to leave OSM as is and respect the ground truth. But I'd welcome any information about changes to signage, because it would be nice to finish the job.

loyatemu · 29-07-2015 1:08pm

mackerski wrote: »

If so, it would be interesting to know whether the preceding part of R750 is also be be renumbered.

It is, and the port access road will be R752 (so that little section between the roudabout in Rathnew and the junction with the relief road is effectively both the R772 and R752)

Carawaystick · 29-07-2015 5:31pm

mackerski wrote: »

OK, nice work. I won't look at the map (since I can't use it as a source for OSM), but if the relief road is part of the route and based on the description, are we looking at this routing?

http://osrm.at/dUL

If so, it would be interesting to know whether the preceding part of R750 is also be be renumbered.

What I find very odd about this is that the brand new signs erected at the beehive roundabout (which is itself brand new) refer to the road towards Wicklow as R751. So this will either have to be changed, a waste of money, or will be left like that for ages (typical Irish confusion).

For now, given the prominence of R751 on signs, I'm going to leave OSM as is and respect the ground truth. But I'd welcome any information about changes to signage, because it would be nice to finish the job.

I'd say the nra aren't the people to redesignate R roads, nor are Wicklow Co. Co; so they have to comply with the existing designations for the time being.

It'ss the r772 all the way through Rathnew.

The lady at the nra said rathnew hill will become the l1100

There are roads which are 2 "R" routes, the Swords bypass is the r132 and r125

While the n52 and n6 are the same between Kilbeggan and Tyrellspass
(or one route is discontinuous while it travels along the other route)

mackerski · 29-07-2015 6:38pm

loyatemu wrote: »

It is, and the port access road will be R752 (so that little section between the roudabout in Rathnew and the junction with the relief road is effectively both the R772 and R752)

No, I'm pretty sure that it can only bear one of those numbers. You'll see in the SIs defining the national and regional roads that where two routes seem like they should multiplex, only one of the numbers applies and the other route is interrupted.

loyatemu · 29-07-2015 11:02pm

mackerski wrote:

No, I'm pretty sure that it can only bear one of those numbers. You'll see in the SIs defining the national and regional roads that where two routes seem like they should multiplex, only one of the numbers applies and the other route is interrupted.

I did say "effectively" - in this case the R752 appears to be non continuous.

JupiterKid · 29-07-2015 11:38pm

So how many minutes are shaved off by the new motorway? The benefits in terms of safety will be huge.

loyatemu · 30-07-2015 9:31am

JupiterKid wrote: »

So how many minutes are shaved off by the new motorway? The benefits in terms of safety will be huge.

comparing travelling at the limit on old road with the new road, only about 5 minutes; but obviously the old road was much more likely to be congested and you were quite likely to get stuck behind a tractor, JCB or Honda 50.

cargo · 30-07-2015 9:42am

loyatemu wrote: »

comparing travelling at the limit on old road with the new road, only about 5 minutes; but obviously the old road was much more likely to be congested and you were quite likely to get stuck behind a tractor, JCB or Honda 50.

at least now yu have an overtaking lane when you come up behind them on this road

vickers209 · 31-07-2015 10:01pm

How did the first bank holiday Friday evening go?

M11 - Arklow to Rathnew

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