School Books rip offs

aaabbbb · 25-07-2015 1:48am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

What's the problem again?

€16 is not extortionate for a school book. They're usually reasonably priced, and if you're complaining about the cost of school books at primary level, wait till your daughter is in college and you'll find out all about the extortionate cost of books.

My first year calculus book cost €65 and that was only for one module :cool:
We needed it every week and with 400+ others needing it too there wasn't a hope of getting your hands on a library copy

Also had to get a €60 chemistry book just so we could use the code in it for online tutorials that comes with the book :rolleyes:

spurious · 25-07-2015 2:00am

Get the parents committee to fund raise and organise a book rental scheme. All of the VEC/ETB schools I ever worked in had them.

Realt Dearg Sec · 25-07-2015 2:01am

OP when you're buying books for yourself, how much do they cost?

Not a NSA agent · 25-07-2015 2:07am

16 isnt bad. In secondary school I remember a lot of the books costing closer to 30.

Tin Foil Hat · 25-07-2015 2:33am

The Dept. of Education should commission textbooks, to which they would then hold the copyright. These should then be tendered out to printers (not publishing houses) to be mass produced and distributed through schools at cost price or a small profit. It would be a massive saving for parents. As e-books take over they would become completely free. There might be a small few books where this might not be possible (Novels, poetry, etc still in copyright) but it would definitely take the sting out of September for parents.

bajer101 · 26-07-2015 2:28am

OP here. My point is why I had to pay €16 for a book that has no copyright or patent. The publishers of these books appear to have entered into a cartel. Our government gave the schools funds to introduce a book rental scheme, but this scheme has become irrelevant as most of the text books have changed and are now "workbooks" which are exempt from this scheme. €16 for a workbook that cannot be sold on and which contains no new knowledge.

The comments about how much I spend on my books are irrelevant and miss the point. I have spent anything from 50c to €100 on a book. So what? I am talking about a €16 3rd class math book that is overpriced.

The comments about the cost of college books are also irrelevant. Again, my point is about the cost of primary school books.

The example I gave was that I paid €16 for a third class math book. There is not patent or copyright issue with the information in these type of books. €16 is a ridiculous amount of money to charge for these books,

And what is worse is that the new breed of schoolbooks seem to workbooks. You cannot sell them on or pass them on to younger relatives.

I paid €16 for a math book for my 8 year old child. This book contains information that was copied and pasted from existing knowledge and I cannot even gift that book to someone else. That's the crux of my argument.

endacl · 26-07-2015 2:35am

What would be a fair price?

€16 is SFA.

And, just out of interest, how does one patent a book?

You may have misunderstood the meaning of copyright. If your wondering what that is, the info will be on the 2nd or 3rd page in.

This post: © endacl, 2015. All rights reserved.

bajer101 · 26-07-2015 2:46am

€16 is a crazy price for a book that is just copying and pasting other people's work. A fair price for this type of book would be €5. There is nothing original in a third class math book. What is particularly disgusting is that most Primary school book have moved toward this model of "workbooks" which have dodged the governments book rental scheme. €16 for a book that can not be passed on to a younger sibling and which dodges the rental scheme. €16 for a workbook with absolutely no original content.

bajer101 · 26-07-2015 3:07am

endacl wrote: »

What would be a fair price?

€16 is SFA.

And, just out of interest, how does one patent a book?

You may have misunderstood the meaning of copyright. If your wondering what that is, the info will be on the 2nd or 3rd page in.

This post: © endacl, 2015. All rights reserved.

How many children do you have attending school? I am going to take a wild stab in the dark here and say zero. I'll take another guess and say that you think that €15 is not extortionate because you had to pay €50+ for some of your college books and you think that I shouldn't be bitching about these €16 books. If I am correct in my assumptions, then your argument is whataboutery. When you have to pay the €16 for a disposable book, then talk to me.

I'm actually ok and can afford this. I just have one child and the I only had to spend €120 for her books and stuff (excluding the book rental scheme). But there are lots of parents with a few kids who will face bills that will hit the many hundreds for these overpriced books. I have a real problem with these "Workbooks". Workbooks that cannot be be re-used. I manged to get an A in Maths all the way through school with books that could be handed down. These Workbooks are just a scam.

One eyed Jack · 26-07-2015 3:38am

Ahh look, you didn't pay €16 for a workbook. You paid it for a maths book. Your suggestion that you should only have to pay €5 for the book suggests you understand very little about publishing, writing, editing and auditing educational books. The staff still need to be paid, as does the author of the book.

And before you make any more assumptions about anyone who disagrees with your claims of extortion, I do have a child in primary education, and I paid about the same as yourself for their books, workbooks, copies, supplies, etc. I consider what I'm getting for my money to be one of the best investments I will ever make in a child's life, and €16 for a math book is something I'll gladly pay.

Wanna know what pisses me off though?

I'll tell you anyway (since you don't particularly care what I think, the feelings at least mutual) -

Parents who receive a €100 back to school allowance and instead of spending it on the child's educational needs, they spend it on themselves and their children are coming back to school with no uniform, no shoes, no breakfast, no lunch, no copies, no books, no schoolbag, not so much as a fcuking pencil.

Your issues with paying €16 for a schoolbook are waaaay down on my list of priorities, from my perspective at least. You want to have an adult conversation about children's education, how about we start with children who have no books at all coming to school, and why is that, and why do we tolerate that sort of nonsense?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 26-07-2015 4:08am

It's a good racket to get into, I remember in my own sec school my french teacher ran it through her husbands newsagents. Serious money to be made on top of his trade and her teachers salary.

zeffabelli · 26-07-2015 7:02am

Back to school costs the guts of €500 for 2nd class.

Nuts.

sconhome · 26-07-2015 7:16am

Write answers in pencil, end of year rub them out and use as a workbook for next year.

juneg · 26-07-2015 8:31am

AKW wrote: »

Write answers in pencil, end of year rub them out and use as a workbook for next year.

please tell me you're joking? The next child would be humiliated by his peers

Mint Aero · 26-07-2015 9:23am

16 euro isnt extortionate?

spurious · 26-07-2015 9:33am

juneg wrote: »

please tell me you're joking? The next child would be humiliated by his peers

He'd know the answers in advance though.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 26-07-2015 9:49am

OP, I'm loathe to join in here as you don't seem to grasp some basics no matter how often you hear them.

School maths books do have a copyright. They have authors and publishers who have rights. They are most certainly not just cut and paste. Indeed that attitude is quite insulting to people who put so much into developing formats to facilitate our children's learning.
As for the nonsense that they contain nothing new: in that case neither do English, History, Geography.....

€16 for a new primary school 3rd class maths book is not extortionate and it gets higher each year by the way.

And before you come back with the "how would you know" line you have been using, I have educated my 4 children.
Buy second hand. Help start a book rental scheme in the school if it bothers you.

I don't get what educate together has to do with the price of school books any more than with the price of eggs.

If your child knows the contents of that maths book by this time next year then it is money well spent

obezyana · 26-07-2015 10:27am

August is almost here, it is the month of school books, school uniforms, stationary, fees etc im gonna broke for the next month. Do i mind.......NO its my kids education. Yes its a pain in the ass the changing/updating of workbooks but this is the way its done now and to be fair the standard in schools is well better than it has been.

I dont get no back to school payments or uniform grants im a single dad that just has to suck it up and pay from my own pocket. 16euro for a workbook would be the least of my worries. We must look at the bigger picture and that is the education of our kids.

Menas · 26-07-2015 1:00pm

When I went to primary and secondary school back in the 70s and 80s we mostly had second hand books. The secondary school had a scheme where they accepted old books as trade ins. It was much needed cash for them.
The school did not insist that you had the latest version of each book which kept this second hand market alive.

But there were always some parents who insisted that their kids had new books only. And they were not the 'posh' parents. I never really understood that.

Mardy Bum · 26-07-2015 2:13pm

Giving out about the cost of a book that will be used for a year that amounts to the same price as a main course in a restaurant or a few packets of biscuits is laughable.

heldel00 · 26-07-2015 2:28pm

OP you need to make contact with your school's parent association and get involved in setting up a book rental scheme.
Use this annoyance that the cost of the book has caused for the greater good!

Amirani · 26-07-2015 2:38pm

€16 for a maths book that your child will use for a year is by no means extortionate, it's a fantastic investment and at a very reasonable price for the return that you'll get on that investment.

€16 is the price of 3 beers or a bottle of wine or a main course in a restaurant or a new t-shirt. 2 hours work at minimum wage. I don't see how this can be considered bad value.

bajer101 · 26-07-2015 4:57pm

Maybe I haven't articulated correctly why I believe that the €16 is extortionate and why I believe it is a racket. The main reason is because it is a workbook and it can't be sold or passed on. There is a school rental scheme in place in the school. AFAIK, all primary schools have been given funding to implement this. But the problem is that the majority of the books are workbooks, so the book rental scheme doesn't apply.

Comparing the cost of the book to wine, meals, bear or cigarettes is irrelevant. The €120 that I just spent on books is a pittance compared to that total cost of rearing a child per year, but that is also irrelevant. This book is €16 and I believe that it is overpriced. A family with a few kids, at different stages of education could really struggle with the combined costs of "use once" books. They could also face further costs by having to buy school uniforms, which I think is a also a racket. These uniforms can often only be bought in one shop which have an effective monopoly.

What I would like to see change is the re-introduction of non-workbook textbooks with the work carried out in copies. A limit on revised editions (which I also think is a racket designed to increase new sales). And the introduction generic uniforms with the school selling crests that could be sown onto the uniforms.

Actually, what I would really like to see happen is for all core textbooks to be provided free of charge to all students and paid for from central government education budget, as happens in the UK. Education is supposed to be free for all children. If core textbooks were paid for by the Dept. of Education and if ownership was provided by the school, I am sure that we would see a return to the non-workbook type of books and better value for the taxpayer as the Dept. would be able to leverage large discounts.

namloc1980 · 26-07-2015 5:03pm

I had workbooks in school 25 years ago. It's not a new thing by any means. €16 for a math workbook for a whole school year is pretty ok I think.

ToddyDoody · 26-07-2015 5:06pm

The main book publisher doesn't seem to be doing all that well...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/publisher-folens-to-cut-staff-numbers-29022067.html

freshpopcorn · 26-07-2015 5:06pm

These work books are often designed to help children to get used to filling in answers other then in copy books to help them do their sigma tests at the end of year.
There are also often more interactive to help some children who struggle with having to copy everything into a copy from a book.

Schwiiing · 26-07-2015 5:08pm

Diego Simeone wrote: »

€16 for a maths book that your child will use for a year is by no means extortionate, it's a fantastic investment and at a very reasonable price for the return that you'll get on that investment.

€16 is the price of 3 beers or a bottle of wine or a main course in a restaurant or a new t-shirt. 2 hours work at minimum wage. I don't see how this can be considered bad value.

:eek: Dunno where you're buying t-shirts.

Mardy Bum · 26-07-2015 5:21pm

bajer101 wrote: »

Maybe I haven't articulated correctly why I believe that the €16 is extortionate and why I believe it is a racket. The main reason is because it is a workbook and it can't be sold or passed on. There is a school rental scheme in place in the school. AFAIK, all primary schools have been given funding to implement this. But the problem is that the majority of the books are workbooks, so the book rental scheme doesn't apply.

Comparing the cost of the book to wine, meals, bear or cigarettes is irrelevant. The €120 that I just spent on books is a pittance compared to that total cost of rearing a child per year, but that is also irrelevant. This book is €16 and I believe that it is overpriced. A family with a few kids, at different stages of education could really struggle with the combined costs of "use once" books. They could also face further costs by having to buy school uniforms, which I think is a also a racket. These uniforms can often only be bought in one shop which have an effective monopoly.

What I would like to see change is the re-introduction of non-workbook textbooks with the work carried out in copies. A limit on revised editions (which I also think is a racket designed to increase new sales). And the introduction generic uniforms with the school selling crests that could be sown onto the uniforms.

The English public education system is a mess and should only be replicated if you want to further ruin the Irish one.

The reason the text book is also a workbook is because these books are more conducive to learning. These have also been replicated at secondary level with workbooks for maths.
You may disagree but I'm going to wager you are not a teacher.

heldel00 · 26-07-2015 5:27pm

bajer101 wrote: »

But the problem is that the majority of the books are workbooks, so the book rental scheme doesn't apply...

What I would like to see change is the re-introduction of non-workbook textbooks with the work carried out in copies...

We have book rental workbooks in my school but from second class up they use copies and don't write in the actual workbooks. Workbooks are sometimes used as a base to work out of. Not as easy in Junior classes though.
You can put a suggestion like this forward at your next Parent's assoc AGM.

SMJSF · 26-07-2015 6:29pm

The teacher pick out book's which match his/her yearly curricular assessment, and what they need to know for the next few years. Plus the secondary curriculum changes every year, so primary school curriculum has to change to........ if they didnt, the jc and lc exams would be the same every year, and they would know the answers from the previous year answers!!!

School Books rip offs

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