1980s bungalow renovation

FortySeven · 14-06-2015 11:55pm #1

Just bought our first house, a 1980s bungalow in Co Galway. It was previously rented and is in a pretty poor state internally. Lots of work to do, lots of decisions to make and no money to spend, (we both work full time but we would be still classed as poor) so all this will be done by me and my partner. I am pretty handy but tend to procrastinate a lot over decision making and completing jobs. Thought I would start this thread to try to garner advice and perhaps to motivate me to get moving on things. Also might help other people as I will document all work and costs on here.

The house is a basic rectangle with gable roof, attached garage (we plan to turn into a kitchen diner later) 4 beds, 1 bath. Concrete slab with uninsulated pipes, cavity walls, new double glazing and doors and a new bio septic tank. (Air pump)

We are in the house a month now, so far I have,

Cleaned the dead bats from the cold water tank and flushed through the system, nasty job.
Cleaned the dead bats from the heating tank and partially flushed the system. Worse job.
Replaced a leaking pipe behind the bathroom sink that was causing damp.
Painted all the bedrooms temporarily.
Pulled out the kitchen and am halfway through fitting a second hand one.
Knocked out a hideous fireplace.
Cleaned the grass out of the gutters.
Loads of inspecting to get an idea what we're up against. (Surveyors report may as well have been thrown out without reading)

Next week the kids are going off to their grandparents for the summer to free us up for the summer of work. Major jobs that need doing,

Insulating,

The loft is partially insulated, it is full of bat droppings and badly laid wiring plus a badly laid pipe for the shower. I will take pics later. Plan is to pull out everything and go up with a shop vac for the mouse and bat droppings, possibly use this to get the birds nest in the soffit too. Lay new fibreglass between the eaves then I will be looking to floor it for storage. Plenty threads on this for me to read, so far I'm leaning towards new beams at right angles with insulation between then boarding it but I've seen mention of insulation boards you can walk on. Need to research this more. Will be getting the walls pumped, there is currently insulating board in there, can't see it properly but it looks to be about 20mm if that.

Venting

Still reading up on this but there are no vents in the soffits, house has a dampness about it, there is damp all around the walls adjoining the bathroom. Partly from condensation, partly the leaking pipe and partly a badly sealed shower. I have pulled all the wood from these walls as it was damaged and have left it to dry out. Thinking of putting trickle vents in the windows, only the bathroom has one.

Wiring
The consumer panel looks like it has had issues at some point. Heat deformed. Needs replacing, the wiring is poor everywhere with plenty retrofitted externally run sockets and switches, all need to be chased and re-routed in the attic. Original wiring is through conduit so not too bad.

Heating

The boiler in the garage looks in a poor state but works, the rads are in poor condition except the one in the bathroom which is quite new. I suspect it was leaking at some point as all rads are rusting and this is probably due to the system constantly running fresh water. I isolated the system and there does not appear to be any leaks. Tried draining it but got fed up of pulling bits of dead bat out of the piping. Will be replacing most rads. Need one in the kitchen, it looks like it used to have a stove so no heating in there. We plan on making the kitchen into a utility in the future when we extend into the garage but we need to save for this and it could be some time away. Plan is to put up solar panels and move the water tank in the new utility, new boiler etc. For now we will use what we have.

Flooring

There is cheap laminate down in most rooms. Around the bathroom walls it has gotten damp. It is also very cold and will all be coming up when the kids are gone. Looking for suitable insulation for under new wood floors. I put down some cheap vinyl in the kitchen for now as it had vinyl on top of vinyl on top of vinyl. They hadn't even cleaned the old stuff before laying the new. That is all gone, the new vinyl is much warmer to walk on than the wood floors yet it is directly on the concrete.

Chimneys

We have no use for them, oil heating is grand for us so pulling out the two fireplaces in the living room and dining room, need to work out the best way to deal with these. Need to investigate the other chimney in the kitchen. It has been blocked up with what looks to be cement, a real half arsed job of filling the wall makes me think this has not been done right.

Bathroom door frame

It is clearly not square, need to work out why and look at replacing it. Might yet find we have some more serious issue there. Perhaps movement in the floor, something not right anyway. Spirit level says the batroom floor slopes down to the door frame but this could just be the crappy tiling. All coming out in the next few weeks for a new bathroom.

New bathroom.

New bath, toilet and sink and complete re-tile. Never tiled before so I am buying some cheap tiles and going to practice on the little toilet in the garage. There is a window in the bathroom and a fan but it gets terrible condensation. Very small room. We will be making a new bathroom in the dining room later when we go into the garage. Paint was flaking off the ceiling, my other half spent ages scrping it all back to bare plaster. There was some specialist anti moisture paint too beneath but it looks like it was applied to new plaster. It has all come off.

Plenty to be getting on with, I'll be keeping this as a journal of sorts. Any advice will be gratefully received. Will post up some pictures soon.

red sean · 15-06-2015 9:05am

Firstly, welcome to boards. That sounds like a very interesting and useful first thread.
You have a lot of work ahead of you, but you seem to be on top of it from the start.
It's typical of a 30+ year old house.

On the issue of bats, this could delay you quite a lot if they are still living in the attic as they are protected by law.
Read up on them straight away!

It sounds like you need a rewire badly if there are signs of heat at the distribution board. Make safety a priority and see to that first.
Have a look at the list of regd contractors in your area and get advice and quotes.
Likewise get a regd, experienced boiler engineer to look at the heating issues.

After that, everything could be doable by a competant person. No harm if you could get to know a man who built houses back then to give you an insight into how things were done as building technology has changed massively since then. It also helps to have someone on the end of a phone to seek instant advice/reassurance from when you find you're in a hole. And it will happen!

Always remember to measure twice and cut once, and that the best price doesn't always mean the best result!

Best of luck with it.

FortySeven · 21-06-2015 1:44pm

Sorry about the lack of posts, a combination of things but largely due to sickness on my part. It's like I have had a flu since we moved in here and I have zero energy for anything. I am putting this down to damp, our bedroom is especially bad, I can feel it on the mattress and duvet and our clothes in the wardrobe smell. OH doesn't notice it but my research says it affects different people in different ways. I feel it badly.

Leaving for Shannon in an hour and then will have an empty house for the summer. Plan is to move into the living room and live between this room and the kitchen. The rest of the house is being pulled apart.

I will be posting a bunch of pictures in the next few days, need advice on a few new potential issues I have found.

As regards bats. I think they have moved out. The lack of insulation in the loft I believe has made them move. The loft was perhaps too warm for them? Will be sealing any holes I can find now they are not there to be disturbed.

FortySeven · 21-06-2015 10:14pm

Seems I need more posts to put up images. Guess I'll have to start an argument on the big brother thread or something.

Started some investigations this evening with my trusty prybar. She is going to kill me next week when she comes home. Not pretty findings so I may just get away with it. She still thinks a lick of paint will do. Not so.

Will go and get posting so I can get pics up. Time to unleash my opinions on the boards!

mylesm · 22-06-2015 6:48pm

Two Things I would definitely look into after wiring etc

1.External Insulation I got this done and and very pleased with result and its Grant assisted and will solve a lot of the problems with condensation which are probably mainly caused by cold walls and moisture laden air it also gives a complete new exterior finish so not too expensive if you were going to paint external walls as you will save this cost

2,A central Heat recovery ventalition system this will improve the internal air quality and make the house much more healthy you could install this yourself and save a lot on cost

Both of these would be a priorty for me as they really make a huge difference to a buildings comfort levels

the_syco · 22-06-2015 7:03pm

Images;

FortySeven wrote:

BryanF · 22-06-2015 7:12pm

Research electric-osmosis

FortySeven · 22-06-2015 7:36pm

Thanks to the syco for posting a few pics till I get my required posts.

The first is self explanatory, bad, bad consumer board. Will be getting replaced.

Second is what I found behind the tiles last night, mold? It is black and runs in a vein type fashion. It is also under the laminate floors in the rooms around the bathroom.

Third is the bottom of the bathroom door frame. Completely rotten, as are the two door frames just outside the batroom. The frame penetrates down through the concrete. Would this be normal?

Last is my shower feed pipe. It runs the entire length of the loft just hanging on the rafters, no insulation. Brilliant.

@Bryanf.

I'm not damp expert but it seems all the issues I have are local to the bathroom. Shower running down the back of the bath, a leaking pipe behind the sink and I suspect a leaking joint in front of the sink where it branches to the bath. (It gets hot there after running a bath) Will know more when I dig out the pipes.
Would you think I would need such an expensive addition if I fix the leaks and let it dry out?

Calahonda52 · 22-06-2015 7:39pm

Before u go much further you do need to establish whether:
1: the house has a DPM in the walls
2: is the ground level outside above this DPM level
3: is there a DPM in the concrete floors
is the driving rain getting in under the doors over the floor DPM and hence the wet walls.

Does the house have rainwater gutters/down pipes.
If so where do they drain to
whats around house as path?

The attic insulation looks good so I wouldn't be pulling all of this out.
It looks if it goes right out to touch the roofing felt and as there are no soffit vents, look at roof tile vents and maybe a screen vent high up in each gable

FortySeven · 22-06-2015 8:29pm

1: the house has a DPM in the walls

It does, I have seen it in the attic where the external walls meet internal, seems OK

2: is the ground level outside above this DPM level

Dpm is exposed on my front door step and is well above external ground height.

3: is there a DPM in the concrete floors

I have to assume so due to the exposed step but will see when I dig down in the bathroom.

is the driving rain getting in under the doors over the floor DPM and hence the wet walls.

Doors are new UPVC and fit well.

Does the house have rainwater gutters/down pipes.
If so where do they drain to

Yes, gutters and downpipes to open drain. Drainage I'm not sure, just went out and stuck my arm down the drain, it heads away from the house for sure and seems to be functioning. Both gutters do drain to the gable end where the bathroom is but would be outside the two end bedrooms, they have less damp than the bathroom and it is mostly around the walls adjoining the bathroom, not the gable wall itself.

whats around house as path?

Concrete. Middling condition.

The attic insulation looks good so I wouldn't be pulling all of this out.

That one bit is ok but mostly it is compressed or not there at all.

It looks if it goes right out to touch the roofing felt and as there are no soffit vents, look at roof tile vents and maybe a screen vent high up in each gable

I will be adding a rake of soffit vents and looking at adding some high tile vents.

Calahonda52 · 22-06-2015 8:50pm

Thanks.
Why retro the soffit vents?

FortySeven · 22-06-2015 9:15pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Thanks.
Why retro the soffit vents?

Bitumen membrane under the tiles. All moisture after insulating is going to collect there. Soffit vents to move air up and out with the moisture?

Just what I've been reading around online. I am open to all suggestions but money is an object and venting the attic this way seems a cheaper option. Can't afford heat exchange venting etc.

Calahonda52 · 22-06-2015 9:23pm

Roof vent tiles just above the finished insulation layer and a vent in each gable will vent the attic space.
soffit vents are really a design flaw if done the irish way because it usually
a: results in the insulation to stop over the wall plate
b: this allows the cold air to blow through the insulation at the corner of the interior wall and the ceiling.
c: this leads to what is shown in the attached picture.

To do it properly, with a air tight felt, u need to allow a 2 inch gap along under neath the felt.
This needs to be made with a windproof piece of material which stops the wind blowing through the insulation.
From the inside of a finished A roof this is impossible to get right in a retro job.

the_syco · 22-06-2015 9:32pm

Looking at the last picture; is it feasible to convert the attic?

Regarding the chimney in the kitchen being badly closed up; is there anything holding up the rest of the chimney? Without know where it's blocked up, have seen in one of those "do up house after cowboy" shows, the chimney was left suspended after someone took the bottom part which was holding it up.

As for the tiling, buy a decent 2nd hand tile cutter (handy for getting a good fit around the loo), and practice on the cheap ones. I say buy rather than rent, as it'll usually work out less stressful in the long run. Oh, and don't forget the "tile cross spacers".

FortySeven · 22-06-2015 10:25pm

the_syco wrote: »

Looking at the last picture; is it feasible to convert the attic?

Regarding the chimney in the kitchen being badly closed up; is there anything holding up the rest of the chimney? Without know where it's blocked up, have seen in one of those "do up house after cowboy" shows, the chimney was left suspended after someone took the bottom part which was holding it up.

As for the tiling, buy a decent 2nd hand tile cutter (handy for getting a good fit around the loo), and practice on the cheap ones. I say buy rather than rent, as it'll usually work out less stressful in the long run. Oh, and don't forget the "tile cross spacers".

Will be flooring the attic for storage access only.

Chimney is still there and it backs onto the living room chimney which is still open. When I can post pics I will be able to show more, the poor blocking is just how they have filled the holes with cement. No finish, ridges and dips in the fill.

I just spent the last few hours doing a bit more investigating with my trusty pry bar. Meh! Stench of stagnant water now in the house. I cut two of the door frames and pulled them out of the concrete. Rotten to the core, they penetrate about 5cm deep into the floor, after digging out the rotten pulp and the woodlice I have found the DPC, seems to be below the walls only and in a poor state under the wooden doorframe. Can anyone tell me, is this normal to bury the frames, seems a bit dim to me.

I've noticed the veins of black are all coming from these doorframe areas so it seems I have major damp due to bathroom leaks and condensation plus localised breaches of the DPC around the door frames. Would this sound about right?

I have pulled the tiles as far as the shower and the wall gets clean within a 3ft radius of the door frame dissapearing into the floor.

Back to the say the first word thread to get my 50 posts.

FortySeven · 22-06-2015 11:03pm

Hmm, 51 posts and still no options in this reply box, must have to wait two more days. Reminds me of standing on the fight club porch to join Zerohedge back in the day.

Just noticed that the plaster seems to go to the base of the concrete too, that's 5cm of concrete poured over door frames and plaster, surely this must have been done at a later date? Seems so wrong to me.

Reasons for retroffiting such a deep screed?

biketard · 23-06-2015 4:39am

FortySeven wrote: »

... just outside the batroom.

Oh, they've got their own room now?

Only kidding. Really interesting thread. Can't wait to see how it progresses. Good luck.

FortySeven · 23-06-2015 8:46pm

Seems I still have one day to wait to post pics. Progress made though. This evening I have taken out the bathroom doorframe altogether, rotten to the core and black mould everywhere. I can see the central heating pipe going to the radiator, worryingly, this has been deformed as it has been pushed up against the door frame when the concrete top layer was laid.

Didn't realise how hard it is to lift floor tiles, lump hammer and a cold chisel but still a kerfuffle. Gladly found the concrete below to be soaking wet in front of the sink, confirms my suspicions of a leak, now I know what I'm dealing with I am much happier. More digging required, off to remove the rest of the tiles.

FortySeven · 24-06-2015 12:37am

OK, a few pics. May have got a little carried away with the pry bar this evening. Cleared the hall. Including 2 door frames, you can see the wonky wall at the end.

This is the growth behind the tiles. As you can see it seems to start from the base of the door frame and fan out before it stops about 1m radius.

Bathroom floor and walls are a little moist.

This is the floor of our bedroom showing more of the veiny type growth, also lots of woodlice anywhere this growth is. Related? Saw a few centipedes and a good few silverfish. A real entomologists dream this evening. Nothing my Henry hoover couldn't deal with though.

And last but not least, the pitiful remnants of a DPM, I find it odd that the plaster goes all the way to the subfloor.

That's all for now, off to bed, work tomorrow. My missus is going to kick my hole when she gets back on Saturday. She thinks I'm painting. :rolleyes:

FortySeven · 24-06-2015 9:04pm

Anyone any idea what this fungally type growth is called? This is my bedroom floor. Bleh!

JIdontknow · 26-06-2015 1:26am

Just reading this thread- you mention about closing up the fireplaces. Would you consider a stove? Even a small one would really make big difference to damp in the house as you work through the house. Personally I'd put one in, you can get them for a few hundred but they give off decent heat, will be cheaper to run than oil and give you some comfort working on the house during the winter.

FortySeven · 26-06-2015 1:32am

Too inconvenient for our life, we both work full time so no fire till the evening, waiting for it to get going and the last thing I want to be doing is setting a fire every night after work. Also have a teenager who is around at random times and need heat in the morning for the young ones. Stoves only work if you've someone at home to feed them through the day really. Might get an insert in the living room but only for the pleasure of it. Now if someone could invent a stove with a timer...

FortySeven · 27-06-2015 12:50am

OK, a lot of research later....

Freaked out I had dry rot due to the white and yellow concrete. Have now decided I have wet rot but will be keeping an eye for any fruiting blooms now I have vented the house and exposed it. Windows are kept open permanently at the moment and will be all summer.

After reading up on it, the threat of rot is not such a big deal it seems. I was planning on doing all the remedial work to heat, insulate and vent the house anyway so the environment will no longer suit growth, therefore, non issue. I am removing all woodwork and will deal with the affected areas later with some vinegar.

The plaster below the concrete seems to be my main issue, the fact there is a DPM under the blocks tells me there is a risk of damp here and the plaster going straight down to this level is comical really. It is just wicking around it. Planning to dig it all out and perhaps fill the gap with some kind of bitumen or latex fill. Need to research more really but I think this should work. I am tempted to dig a hole somewhere in the concrete to determine if there is any insulation or a membrane under the floors but the floors don't appear to be wet or cold really, it all seems to penetrate around the contact points of buried door frames and plaster below floor level.

Will be stripping out all the other bedrooms over the coming days and seeing what surprises lie beneath, might let it all dry out for a week or so with the windows open and concentrate on cutting chases for wiring for now.

Didn't expect to have to learn so much so quickly. Didn't expect it to be so bad from the engineers report, I'm considering legal on that bollox. (Never had to consider this in my life so far) He's cost me a pretty penny.

biketard · 28-06-2015 12:35pm

How'd the wife react, FortySeven?

FortySeven · 28-06-2015 7:36pm

biketard wrote: »

How'd the wife react, FortySeven?

Surprisingly supportive. She must have enjoyed the week in Poland.

She has spent the day organising all the stuff from the other rooms into the living room where we will now be sleeping. Cosy.

I have spent the day pulling out all the other wood floors and door frames as she cleared them. Signs of a wet floor here. I have drawn the line with a marker and will see if it recedes now the floor is up.

Particularly bad on the wall in the back bedroom.

More white fungal growth too.

This is the bad wall, it backs onto the bathroom right where the leaking pipe was that I repaired before. Starting to wonder if this is the root cause, for all I know it has been leaking for years and travelling on the concrete surface under the floors, slowly up the house. The pattern of damp seems to point to this. This bad wall had a wardrobe in it. Considering sacrificing that bit of the bedroom to extend the bathroom, take out that wall altogether and move it back to where the wardrobe used to be.

FortySeven · 28-06-2015 9:56pm

Last room stripped, more fungal growth on the floor. It is definitely worse around the bathroom, going to dry this all out over the coming days and see what happens. The moisture from the leak has been trapped under the wood floors and has been wicking up the carpet in the hall. If we dry this out and ventilate we may just have it sorted cheap. Not counting my chickens yet though.

red sean · 28-06-2015 10:02pm

Would be no harm to put a dehumidifier in for a couple of days. it'll speed things up and give better drying.

FortySeven · 28-06-2015 11:19pm

red sean wrote: »

Would be no harm to put a dehumidifier in for a couple of days. it'll speed things up and give better drying.

Was just pricing rentals.

That and buying a dampmeter to map the house and keep track of levels.

TheLastMohican · 29-06-2015 3:33am

Looks to me that it's wet rot that turned to dry rot (after the ingress was cured). Remember it's all down to percentages of moisture.

biketard · 29-06-2015 3:43am

Yeah, I second the dehumidifier(s) and hygrometer(s). Otherwise you're just guessing. You don't want to mess about with mould.

Hope you can get it all sorted cheaply enough. Also hope you're not breathing any of it in.

FortySeven · 29-06-2015 11:08pm

TheLastMohican wrote: »

Looks to me that it's wet rot that turned to dry rot (after the ingress was cured). Remember it's all down to percentages of moisture.

Yes,I'm starting to lean that way too after hours of reading and looking at case studies. Man, thank god for the internet.

The good news is that it is localised to the bedrooms and bathroom which now have NO wood left in them. Now to break out the vinegar, kill it and look at dehumidifying.

1980s bungalow renovation

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