Episode 5x10: 'Mother's Mercy' - READERS thread

Daith · 15-06-2015 10:31am

wingnut wrote: »

Ghost has had an odd treatment on the TV show. They should have showed him locked up and going mad, or at least howling as you suggest. The direwolves were so significant in earlier seasons, only job this season was deus ex machina rescue of Samwell.

I was also disappointed with Grey Wind's death on the show.

Agreed. Summer is the only direwolf that seems consistent. The show really doesn't want to feature other characters warging too.

However we now possibly will have Jon to Ghost and Arya to Nymeria (or a cat) so it might be featured.

I wanted Grey Wind to go off like the champ he was but oddly found his death sadder in the show. Esp with Arya looking on.

Tigger · 15-06-2015 10:53am

That was a body double with a cgi face btw

Ave Sodalis · 15-06-2015 11:12am

IrishTrajan wrote: »

That entire battle scene seemed rushed and pointless. Stannis was a proven commander, and knew the Boltons had an army at Winterfell. He wouldn't have sat in the open, he would've positioned his army along the tree line. Him announcing they were going to start a siege (without food) the morning after made them sitting out in the open absolutely pointless.

He just lost everything though. He was broken, there was nothing left of him. He was just after burning his child which did nothing except make half his army desert and his wife commit suicide. Then he learns that his red priest has taken off, and with her the last shred of hope. The man was broken. The only thing he could do was what he travelled all that way for because he had nothing left.

I believe he is dead. Both for the reasons above and because he showed that he sees the world as black and white. He committed a crime by killing his brother, he accepts the consequences by telling Brienne to do her duty. Also, Brienne has wanted to kill him from the start, I don't think she's going to miss.

Liam O · 15-06-2015 11:13am

Tigger wrote: »

That was a body double with a cgi face btw

I did think it looked strange, probably a lot to do with the tattoo cover up but still a bit pointless.

jaded_pause · 15-06-2015 11:41am

I'm pretty disappointed, as a few have pointed out thus far, with the amount of cliffhangers we've been left with this season. Dany, Sansa, Jamie left with the young lad on the boat, no sign of Bran at all, the Tyrels, including Margery, Tommen, Jon with no Ghost reaction, Red woman showing up at the wall conveniently. It's all just a little bit... shoulda been episode 9 and I'm waiting for next week til they wrap up a few unanswered questions. It's getting to the stage now where I'm questioning do I even want to watch next season or wait for the book.

Also by the end of it I just wanted to give Cercei a bath, felt really bad for her, even though she deserved it, the scene was dreadfully gratuitous and overly long, I get she's being disgraced and shamed (*bell ring*) but I didn't want to pity her because she's one of my least favourite characters, I quite enjoyed her comeuppance in the book.

Nody · 15-06-2015 11:50am

[/QUOTE]

jaded_pause wrote: »

I'm pretty disappointed, as a few have pointed out thus far, with the amount of cliffhangers we've been left with this season. Dany, Sansa, Jamie left with the young lad on the boat, no sign of Bran at all, the Tyrels, including Margery, Tommen, Jon with no Ghost reaction, Red woman showing up at the wall conveniently. It's all just a little bit... shoulda been episode 9 and I'm waiting for next week til they wrap up a few unanswered questions. It's getting to the stage now where I'm questioning do I even want to watch next season or wait for the book.

Season finale means there is no episode next week

Also by the end of it I just wanted to give Cercei a bath, felt really bad for her, even though she deserved it, the scene was dreadfully gratuitous and overly long, I get she's being disgraced and shamed (*bell ring*) but I didn't want to pity her because she's one of my least favourite characters, I quite enjoyed her comeuppance in the book.

I think the scene actually did a very good job of driving that home; esp. how broken she was from it all but I think the scene once she entered the castle could have been done better. Also was I the only one noting how the sparrow standing up on the top looking down at all the people appeared to be, well, smug about it all? I sense the making of a new wannabe dictator here who'll try to change it from a king to a priest lead nation instead (with him leading it of course).

Mr.Prodston · 15-06-2015 12:44pm

I don't even know how I feel, I was very unimpressed I think. What I do know is that I think D&D have gotten a little too carried away with the success of some of their minor changes in past seasons that worked out well enough and felt a little overly confident about adapting this season.

The thing in this episode that really got to me was Brienne leaving seconds before Sansa lit the candle. Sure Stannis was coming but it was such a cliched moment that early seasons of GOT would never have had. Even trying to be impartial as a viewer of the show that was just lazy. The first time I really noticed it/sticks in my head was before Oberyn's fight last season and he utters "This is not the day I die". Why even include that? I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it is to create 10 hours of television but I think they should be doing better. At this point I don't think they really give 2 hoots about the source material or the fans. The whole "But George burns her in the next book" defence is evidence of that. Anyway.

2/3 episodes ago Stannis was the greatest military leader in Westeros and even with the bare bones of an army left he didn't seem to set up all that well for a man of such vast expertise. How was he going to attempt a siege after 20 good men burnt all his supplies last week? I guess this is really one of the first things the show has spoiled on the reader. I assume the Battle of Winterfell can't see Stannis winning in The Winds of Winter now. Brienne managed to find Stannis pretty easily too. He's presumably dead, I mean even if he's kept alive he has nothing left.

Mel realising Stan wasn't the man was one of the subtler and better things but the whole premise as to how it came about was shoddy as I may have briefly mentioned in the last paragraph :pac: How she went from almost smiling at the pyre last week to showing some remorse when met by Davos is somewhat odd. The thought did cross my mind briefly that Davos may attempt some rescue of Jon but I guess himself and Mel were supposed to be asleep.

The Benjen trolling was annoying and there seem to be huge questions over whether Jon will be back. I guess we're all in the dark for now, although with Mel in situ conditions there's a chance of life. I guess anything that Kit or D&D say at this point either way can be taken with a pinch of salt. They won't be able to hide his filming I'd imagine or the lack thereof.

Plot Twist: Mel tries to raise Jon back to life and Stannis is reborn instead

The Cersei scene seemed to drag on but then again that was the idea. Ser Robert Strong seems to have more of a head than I remembered though. Kevan and Pycelle can sleep easy for a little while, although a lack of Littlefinger could indicate him taking the very far from King's Landing, Varys. That was a surprise. GreyWorm will forever piss me off I think and it's not his fault, perhaps if he were to find Wyman Manderley then all would be well :P

Arya's revenge was well done but we're none the wiser as to where that story is going. A little more casual abuse of women too to keep everyone happy! The Hound has been a massive loss to the show I think. At least Theon finally found himself, but that jump even despite the snow seemed like suicide more than anything else. Dany surrounded by Dothraki was faithful to the plot and overall I guess everyone is pretty much as they are in the books.

Except for Dorne which I just remembered. Bloody hell. How did we manage to miss out on Arianne in favour of Ellaria? I actually groan aloud everytime she comes on screen at this point!

Bronn got out alive though eh :cool:

RobbingBandit · 15-06-2015 12:53pm

Jon Snow body Stannis soul. Calling it now.

jaded_pause · 15-06-2015 1:02pm

Season finale means there is no episode next week

Oh I'm aware lol, I mis-worded, should have said I FEEL like I'm waiting for the finale next week because it wasn't good enough for my poor brain lol. Apologies!

OneOfThem Stumbled · 15-06-2015 1:07pm

Stannis: So what has your Lord of Light given me for burning my daughter to death.
Melisandre: Well, naturally, the non-nutjobs didn't take well to the immolation so they're gone. Your wife, who in fact, was a nutjob didn't take it well either, so she's dead.
Stannis: Did nobody see this happening? Does nobody serving me have any capacity to prevent this sort of crap?
Melisandre: Davos is the only person in your camp besides me who has a name, and he's not here... so... no. But, on the plus side the storm is over.
Stannis: Normally I would welcome storms when we are in no position to give battle as it would screen us from the enemy as we make our retreat. But since I'm not going to do that, it's all good.
Melisandre: We could just go elsewhere you know.
Stannis: What on earth are you talking about woman? We are a hundred leagues from anywhere, except Winterfell, which is just over that hill, apparently.
Melisandre: Well not really... *woosh*
[a horse appears]
I can get back to the Night's Watch in less than a day.
Stannis: And why would you do that?
Melisandre: Errors were made. 404 protagonist not found.
Stannis: What? After 3 seasons of buildup I won't let you just leave! My men will stop you!
Melisandre: We already have had this conversation about your men. Laters
[exit Mel stage right]
Stannis: If war has taught me anything it is that the best course of action now is to lay siege to a an army twice my size.
[exit Stannis stage left]

***************

Littlefinger: Everything is going to plan Ser Prize
Ser Prize: Why are you telling me this?
Littlefinger: Varys isn't here. Usually I say this sort of thing in the throne room in King's Landing, but whatever. Anyhow, I have Sansa in just the position for her to exact her revenge.
Ser Prize: How so?
Littlefinger: I have read all the spoilers. Even for the material that isn't written yet. I looked into the flames and saw that a Stark ~would be taught to fly~... and that this is a significant development.. one which will guarantee victory for the Starks. And lo... Theon seems to be doing his part in ensuring Sansa obtains this education.
Ser Prize: But the Stark being referenced in Dance of Dragons was Bran.. wasn't it? Sansa was meant to be a political weapon, not a sex slave, wasn't she? That fall is more likely to kill her than anything? And with Stannis out of the way, and there being no storm to provide shelter, how on Earth will she be rescued?
Littlefinger: Okay, that's it! Out the moondoor with you!
Ser Prize: No! I've only just been introduced! I've only just been introduuuuuuu

***************

Qyburn: My Queen, the new King's guard. It is... Ser Gregor!
Cersei:: No this can't be!
Qyburn: I know... he has changed. Altered irreparably...
Cersei::No, that's not it at all, in fact he is the same!
Qyburn: The same, my Queen?
Cersei:: This man has changed three times that I have known him. Entirely. Unrecognisable. Yet, somehow, when you... turned him into a walking corpse... he manages to be the same 26 year old Icelandic strongman as before.

***************

Ellaria: And now the Martells have been avenged.
Obara: We have received the body of The Mountain?
Ellaria: No! Oberyn's justice has been observed.
Obara: That little girls would not be harmed in Dorne?
Ellaria: No.. no... that we would gain superiority over the Lannisters!
Obara: I don't think Oberyn actually said that. He talked about The Mountain a lot. And Tywin. Hell, didn't he die fighting on behalf of a Lannister?
Ellaria: Anyway, I have done it, I have killed Myrcella
Obara: You mean the crown prince's wife-to-be?
Ellaria: Yes!
Obara: The only political pawn by which Dorne could secure the Iron Throne?
Ellaria: The one and only!
Obara: The girl who was on the ship with the crown prince.
Ellaria: Yes, yes.
Obara: They have the crown prince hostage now, don't they?
Ellaria: I suppose so.
Obara: Will they suspect you of the murder? Or us?
Ellaria: I don't see why they would. All in all, the perfect crime I think.
Obara: Is that the ship, coming back? Yeah. It's the ship.

Jelle1880 · 15-06-2015 2:02pm

It felt like they were trying to put too much cliffhangers in 1 episode.

Jon, Stannis, Sansa and Theon, Cersei and Robert Strong, Arya, Daenerys,...

podgemonster · 15-06-2015 2:16pm

I enjoyed that episode, it didn't feel like a season finale and in a way another 30 mins would have just ironed out some creases but as an episode I found it exciting and extremely tragic.

One of the biggest character transition was Melisandre, she awakens to see the ice melting and we see a face of relieved pleasure. Her murder of Shireen is justified (which I believe now she may have hid some doubts about) had paid off (at that moment). Then come the hard facts, horses gone and half the troops abandoned the camp. This is the face of a poker player that has gone all in and lost everything. In the end she knows all is lost and saves herself. Davos mentioning of Shireen pains her, she feels guilt. This sudden change almost evokes pity to a religious nut who releases they were wrong.

Stannis chooses to fight sword in hand knowing that he his lost, he his Iron, he'll break before he bends. His final moments he is fittingly punished for the shameful act (which he acknowledges) of murdering his brother with magic. Not for being a traitor or a rebel but for being a kinslayer and using sorcery. There's a moment of respect between him and Brienne that I liked. Two of the most honour bound rigid characters finally meeting. I can understand people protesting that Stannis was an excellent military commander but so was Napoleon and Hitler and they were undone when attacking a large land mass in weather conditions their armies weren't used to. One criticism would be the ridiculous size of the Bolton host, it was a bit over indulgent by the TV show.

I'm gona say it, I enjoyed the Dorne scene this week. Little bit of comedy for Bronn and what was a really beautiful yet awkward father and daughter scene before her death. Mrycella is every bit as naive and innocent as Shireen, she is loving and gentle and comforts and accepts her stuttering one handed uncle/father before she bleeds to death. I found it heartbreaking that she died panicking in her father arms.

Meereen was poor this week, found the scene in the Throne room awkward and forced with everyone showing up and getting a job to do from a fúcking sellsword. Not really sure Dany's scene was necessary. Can Drogon speak English? Could he not have a nap without Dany nagging him. The shot of the encircling Khalazar was pretty impressive.

Arya's murder of Trant was very dark, quick, vicious and powerful, she relished every moment of it. Found the scene afterwards to be a bit too Stephen King. Could just made her drink something to make her blind rather than that headfúck of a scene.

Nice to know Sam will be in a new city next season. I found his scene with Jon quite nice knowing that they may never meet again. After Ygritte I think Jon knows how hard it is to keep your vows when you're in love. I ignored the whole Benjen spoiler stuff and I actually found the whole thing on social media pointless and merely click bait material. If the show writers are try to suprise me I'd rather have them do it than some link on Facebook.

The Ides of March scene was done ok, in my head I imagined it to be colder, almost silent. I didn't appreciate "Olly" being Jon's last words. Would have liked a panned shot up to Ghost.

Finally one of the finest scenes of the season was Cersei's atonement. Her initial confession has lashings of dishonesty and the Lena Headleys subtly lets us know that she really hasn't learned any thing at that moment. The scene needed to be long to translate Cersei decent to humility. Her tiny smirk to the Septa during her scrubbing is wiped when her hair is cut, she composes herself and walks Naked to the Red Keep without trying to cover her bits like the previous High Septon. She begins determined and strong and eventually becomes a broken scared women covered in blood, filth and tears. It was poetic and one that may earn Lena an award.

When you compare it to other season finales there has always been an element of hope bar the marching army of the dead in Season 2 which is more of a "WHOA!!" ending. Season one ends with "THE KING IN THE NORTH" and the birth of Dragons, Season 3 ends with Dany being lifted up by freed slaves, Season 4 ends with Arya sailing into the sunset on a Bravosi ship heading towards another land. There is no really winner walking away this season bar Roose and Ramsay, while the story continues and things get worse there needs to be a glimmer of joy and element of hope. Instead we are left with the main character dead and bleeding out in the snow.

Peregrine · 15-06-2015 2:24pm

Arya - I thought this was done perfectly, no complaints from me.

Stannis - Too many things off camera. His actions didn't agree with his character. Greatest military tactician in Westeros marches to Winterfell with few hundred starving men and no horses and actually thinks there will be a siege?

Sansa & Theon - Nothing too wrong with it.

Brienne - The whole thing with her leaving and Sansa lighting the candle two seconds later was a bit much.

Cersei - The walk was dragged out far too much.

Jon - Recap on Benjen was almost tantalising.

Tyrion - Pretty much as expected, sitting around thinking 'What now?'

Melisandre - Just how many leagues did she travel in such a short time? It's also worth noting that Davos left the camp almost a day before Melisandre.

Daenerys - Thought it was fine.

Dorne - Groan

Jelle1880 · 15-06-2015 2:31pm

podgemonster wrote: »

I enjoyed that episode, it didn't feel like a season finale and in a way another 30 mins would have just ironed out some creases but as an episode I found it exciting and extremely tragic.

One of the biggest character transition was Melisandre, she awakens to see the ice melting and we see a face of relieved pleasure. Her murder of Shireen is justified (which I believe now she may have hid some doubts about) had paid off (at that moment). Then come the hard facts, horses gone and half the troops abandoned the camp. This is the face of a poker player that has gone all in and lost everything. In the end she knows all is lost and saves herself. Davos mentioning of Shireen pains her, she feels guilt. This sudden change almost evokes pity to a religious nut who releases they were wrong.

Stannis chooses to fight sword in hand knowing that he his lost, he his Iron, he'll break before he bends. His final moments he is fittingly punished for the shameful act (which he acknowledges) of murdering his brother with magic. Not for being a traitor or a rebel but for being a kinslayer and using sorcery. There's a moment of respect between him and Brienne that I liked. Two of the most honour bound rigid characters finally meeting. I can understand people protesting that Stannis was an excellent military commander but so was Napoleon and Hitler and they were undone when attacking a large land mass in weather conditions their armies weren't used to. One criticism would be the ridiculous size of the Bolton host, it was a bit over indulgent by the TV show.

I'm gona say it, I enjoyed the Dorne scene this week. Little bit of comedy for Bronn and what was a really beautiful yet awkward father and daughter scene before her death. Mrycella is every bit as naive and innocent as Shireen, she is loving and gentle and comforts and accepts her stuttering one handed uncle/father before she bleeds to death. I found it heartbreaking that she died panicking in her father arms.

Meereen was poor this week, found the scene in the Throne room awkward and forced with everyone showing up and getting a job to do from a fúcking sellsword. Not really sure Dany's scene was necessary. Can Drogon speak English? Could he not have a nap without Dany nagging him. The shot of the encircling Khalazar was pretty impressive.

Arya's murder of Trant was very dark, quick, vicious and powerful, she relished every moment of it. Found the scene afterwards to be a bit too Stephen King. Could just made her drink something to make her blind rather than that headfúck of a scene.

Nice to know Sam will be in a new city next season. I found his scene with Jon quite nice knowing that they may never meet again. After Ygritte I think Jon knows how hard it is to keep your vows when you're in love. I ignored the whole Benjen spoiler stuff and I actually found the whole thing on social media pointless and merely click bait material. If the show writers are try to suprise me I'd rather have them do it than some link on Facebook.

The Ides of March scene was done ok, in my head I imagined it to be colder, almost silent. I didn't appreciate "Olly" being Jon's last words. Would have liked a panned shot up to Ghost.

Finally one of the finest scenes of the season was Cersei's atonement. Her initial confession has lashings of dishonesty and the Lena Headleys subtly lets us know that she really hasn't learned any thing at that moment. The scene needed to be long to translate Cersei decent to humility. Her tiny smirk to the Septa during her scrubbing is wiped when her hair is cut, she composes herself and walks Naked to the Red Keep without trying to cover her bits like the previous High Septon. She begins determined and strong and eventually becomes a broken scared women covered in blood, filth and tears. It was poetic and one that may earn Lena an award.

When you compare it to other season finales there has always been an element of hope bar the marching army of the dead in Season 2 which is more of a "WHOA!!" ending. Season one ends with "THE KING IN THE NORTH" and the birth of Dragons, Season 3 ends with Dany being lifted up by freed slaves, Season 4 ends with Arya sailing into the sunset on a Bravosi ship heading towards another land. There is no really winner walking away this season bar Roose and Ramsay, while the story continues and things get worse there needs to be a glimmer of joy and element of hope. Instead we are left with the main character dead and bleeding out in the snow.

Great write up, agree with most of it.

But I believe that the Bolton army contains many of the mercenaries that abandoned Stannis, hence their huge cavalry numbers (they stole all of his horses).

2ndcoming · 15-06-2015 3:11pm

podgemonster wrote: »

Finally one of the finest scenes of the season was Cersei's atonement. Her initial confession has lashings of dishonesty and the Lena Headleys subtly lets us know that she really hasn't learned any thing at that moment. The scene needed to be long to translate Cersei decent to humility. Her tiny smirk to the Septa during her scrubbing is wiped when her hair is cut, she composes herself and walks Naked to the Red Keep without trying to cover her bits like the previous High Septon. She begins determined and strong and eventually becomes a broken scared women covered in blood, filth and tears. It was poetic and one that may earn Lena an award.

I don't think it represented a descent into humility. If anything it's the thing (along with

the death of Myrcella and Tommen

) that's going to send her over the tipping point and possibly lead to

her bringing about the doom of King's Landing as a way of punishing the commoners for how they treated her

.

Spoiler tags used even though these are only theories for the most part.

paulbok · 15-06-2015 3:15pm

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Great write up, agree with most of it.

But I believe that the Bolton army contains many of the mercenaries that abandoned Stannis, hence their huge cavalry numbers (they stole all of his horses).

It would make sense, they'd have known there was nowhere else to go for leagues, so switching sides in order to survive the weather never mind the battle would not be a difficult decision for a sell sword.

chanelfreak · 15-06-2015 4:19pm

Well I absolutely HATED that episode - I'm actually really bloody p1ssed off with D&D to be honest. The season itself was a real comedown from the previous ones IMO, but I was willing to go with it and episode 8 had me thinking my hanging on and not giving up on it was justified, but HELL NO.

Dorne was pointless as usual, I didnt like the way they made Dany look like she was threatened when in the book, its more like she is threatening the khalasar (especially with Drogon being his bad self beside her!).
WTF was the craic with Stannis??!?! That REALLY irritated me, because why kill off Shireen last episode? Just to be controversial it would appear, which really grinds my gears.
The Olly stabbiness was as obvious as we had all guessed, but I really hope Kit Harrington is just having the lulz with his interview, because if Jon Snow isnt going to warg into Ghost/be resurrected by Melisandre then what is the bloody point of it all? AARRGGHHHH.
And no Lady Stoneheart - goddammit, I was really hoping she would show up, but the fact that they have left her out coupled with the fact that we havent seen Beric Dondarrion for about a million years, seems to point to the fact that D&D are not gonna go with the Lord of Light resurrection at all.

As another poster said, they completely and utterly killed all the tension from the same parts in ADwD and I have no interest in watching next year, because I think it's going to be so utterly different from GRRMs vision.
I just hope to feck the man gets cracking on TWoW so that I can enjoy what he envisioned for the series and not what D&D decided to churn out for the sake of bloody ratings. Gah.

paulbok · 15-06-2015 4:43pm

I can't remember from the books but do any of the Stark children apart from Bran have the ability to warg?

FunLover18 · 15-06-2015 4:48pm

I think what really annoys me is that there really doesn't seem to be a plan. Like I would've thought D&D would have had enough time what characters/stories they want to cover and how they want to cover them, but it really does feel like this season was just thrown together (possibly because they're catching up with the book's) but the appearance, disappearance, reappearance of characters really doesn't help. Of course the series doesn't and can't have the scope of the books but even a line thrown in here and there referencing the struggles in the riverlands, instead of wasting time on Greyworm/Missandei, it's all beginning to feel very localised (I still don't get how they are unaware of Cersei's arrest in Dorne). The inconsistencies with time also don't help (although it's a difficult thing to convey visually). Myrcella has been in Dorne for years but as someone pointed out above baby Sam is still a baby. I think a few days are supposed to have passed between Melisandre's departure from camp and arrival at the wall. The pink letter would've helped clarify this and I thought they were going to go that way when they had Jon reading the letters, but instead they went with some random Benjen reference. I'm seriously just considering waiting for the books and reading Martin's story as he intends it to pan out. There really wasn't much in that finale that has be bursting to see what happens next which is odd because they're all the same cliff hangers from the last book.

Son0vagun · 15-06-2015 5:09pm

Terrible finale to a terrible season.

It appears D&D have scarificed the TV show to save the Books. Very noble of them. It seems they've gone off on different tangents, totally opposites to the books to save spoiling the books.

There is no way Stannis is going to lose the Battle of Ice in the books.

Old Perry · 15-06-2015 5:21pm

Double post:-\

eldest200 · 15-06-2015 5:22pm

With the reveal of "Robert the Strong" I wonder will we get cleganebowl for next year?

Old Perry · 15-06-2015 5:25pm

Son0vagun wrote: »

Terrible finale to a terrible season.

It appears D&D have scarificed the TV show to save the Books. Very noble of them. It seems they've gone off on different tangents, totally opposites to the books to save spoiling the books.

There is no way Stannis is going to lose the Battle of Ice in the books.

havent read the books but have been reading book spoilers and info for the craic. i agree, glad that season is out of the way now and hope when it comes back that is better like in previous seasons. there really was a lack of atomosphere and substance in many ways this year.

about milisandrei. id assumed (because they didnt show it) that based on the info gleaned from shireens death, and also her previous meeting with
jon, that she knew that stannis was going to fail? And jon was going to get fooked by the NW and thats why she up and left thinking jons a better bet now. Could this be plausible? how far diverged from the books is the stannis and red witch story?

Old Perry · 15-06-2015 5:30pm

Also reek and sansa going out hsnd in hand. Holy fook. dindnt see zhat comin at all.

Washington Irving · 15-06-2015 5:33pm

Son0vagun wrote: »

Terrible finale to a terrible season.

It appears D&D have scarificed the TV show to save the Books. Very noble of them. It seems they've gone off on different tangents, totally opposites to the books to save spoiling the books.

There is no way Stannis is going to lose the Battle of Ice in the books.

They've confirmed several times that the TV show and books will have the same eventual ending, but how they get there will change.

It's possible Stannis comes out the winner of the Battle of Ice but dies later on. All we know now is he won't be king come the end.

Oranage2 · 15-06-2015 5:42pm

paulbok wrote: »

I can't remember from the books but do any of the Stark children apart from Bran have the ability to warg?

Jon Snow can, I think Arya has dreams of her wolf running around leading a pack killing Lanisters, also there's a chapter about a cat of the canals, so she too can most likely warg.

Not sure about Sansa though her dog is dead.

Just finished watching the episode, a bit of a let down, some things were just too obvious, it felt like the cersai scene went on forever with a stunt double with kinda made it pointless.

FunLover18 · 15-06-2015 5:48pm

Oranage2 wrote:

Jon Snow can, I think Arya has dreams of her wolf running around leading a pack killing Lanisters, also there's a chapter about a cat of the canals, so she too can most likely warg.

Was Cat of the canals not an alias that Arya assumed? I think I need to re-read

Peregrine · 15-06-2015 5:50pm

paulbok wrote: »

I can't remember from the books but do any of the Stark children apart from Bran have the ability to warg?

All of them are full wargs, including Jon. Bran is the only one aware of his ability and practising it.

Iwasfrozen · 15-06-2015 6:04pm

Is Strannis dead? Like actually dead?! I refuse to believe it, I point blank refuse to believe it! :mad:

Oranage2 · 15-06-2015 6:13pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Is Strannis dead? Like actually dead?! I refuse to believe it, I point blank refuse to believe it! :mad:

it didn't look like a full swing back and it was a bit of a yelp by her too, I doubt he's dead.

Perhaps the red witch can bring him back to life after she brings Jon Snow back. This reminds me of book 5 & 6 and how stupid they were that nobody seemed to stay dead.

Episode 5x10: 'Mother's Mercy' - READERS thread

Comments