Germanwings Airbus A320 crash - Cyber Hijacking?

degrassinoel · 26-03-2015 1:38pm

quad_red wrote: »

Some sort of expert (didn't catch name) on morning ireland claimed that there is a keypad into the cockpit that the crew have the code for. They have to wait 30 seconds then they have a 5 second window to enter the code to gain entry.

The only way this wouldn't operate would be if the person remaining in the cockpit deliberately locked the cockpit down.

Which would seem to rule out a heart attack etc. and leave either mental breakdown or deliberate action?

I've been hearing on rte that the plane took a shallow dive at full power and the pilot in the cockpit had been heard by ATC as "still breathing" which still leaves us in the dark on what really happened.

Lot's of possibilities, but a fatal heart attack or stroke seem less likely if those reports/leaks are true

Reg'stoy · 26-03-2015 2:37pm

degrassinoel wrote: »

I've been hearing on rte that the plane took a shallow dive at full power and the pilot in the cockpit had been heard by ATC as "still breathing" which still leaves us in the dark on what really happened.

Lot's of possibilities, but a fatal heart attack or stroke seem less likely if those reports/leaks are true

The lack of the recital of any religious or ideological mantra particularly in the last moments, would lead me to believe that the co-pilot was acting by himself. Mental illness of some form or another hopefully will be the reason for his action, to think that he decided willfully to take all those poor people with him is just too horrible to comprehend.

I would imagine that procedures will be amended to ensure that no person is left alone by themselves in cockpits. Be it an Air Marshal or another crew member, indeed we might see the return of the flight engineer so three and at a minimum two people will be in the cockpit at any one time.

shedweller · 26-03-2015 5:24pm

This could help push the whole remote drone type flight computer into airliners. Pilots will have a lot to say about that but that is on the horizon for sure.

degrassinoel · 26-03-2015 5:39pm

I cant imagine that being accepted very well, especially in CT's

Overheal · 26-03-2015 6:14pm

It's already SOP on United States flights that the cockpit must be occupied by no fewer than 2 crew members at a time. If a pilot or copilot leaves the cockpit a flight attendant must be present.

Europe does not - yet - have this rule.

The pilot followed procedure, waiting for the plane to reach safe cruising altitude before leaving to use the lavatory. At that time investigators hypothesize that the co-pilot used the lockout system on the cockpit door to stop the pilot from overriding the door lock. It is a system in place on the cockpit door to stop an unauthorized person/hijacker from locking out the cockpit. Only crewmembers have knowledge of what the unlock and unlock-override codes actually are.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/26/germanwings-flight-9525-co-pilot-appeared-to-want-to-destroy-the-plane-prosecutor-says

degrassinoel · 27-03-2015 9:28am

Overheal wrote: »

It's already SOP on United States flights that the cockpit must be occupied by no fewer than 2 crew members at a time. If a pilot or copilot leaves the cockpit a flight attendant must be present.

Europe does not - yet - have this rule.

As a whole no, but certain airlines do have it, Aer Lingus being one of them i believe.

150 people dead and it's appearing like it's down to one guy wanting to kill himself. Cant even begin to imagine how terrifying it would have been aboard that plane - apparently the passengers screams were audible on the flight recorder

Chemical Byrne · 27-03-2015 9:58am

I wonder will there be reprisals against this guys family. It would be wrong of course but it would be understandable how people might want to take out revenge against them.
Between that and the media circus that will descend on them they might have to change names and go into something like witness protection.

Right Turn Clyde · 28-03-2015 12:39pm

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I wonder will there be reprisals against this guys family. It would be wrong of course but it would be understandable how people might want to take out revenge against them.
Between that and the media circus that will descend on them they might have to change names and go into something like witness protection.

No, that's not one bit understandable. Not even a little bit.

Reg'stoy · 28-03-2015 1:19pm

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

No, that's not one bit understandable. Not even a little bit.

Indeed one gentleman spoke very well last night on a BBC news report on expressing his sympathy for the co-pilots family and particularly his parents.

Hopefully this whole tragedy will shine an even brighter light on mental health issues and remove the stigma of the 'mental' tag. The aviation industry and in particular budget airlines will have to look at the whole contract employment policies that currently exist. I know in one pretty famous budget airline, rates of pay differ along with sick leave arrangements and staff may be on short term but long term rolling contracts. We as a society tend not to care about the long hours of junior doctors in our A&E departments so will we worry that some contract pilots work two if not three jobs especially in the states.

Now seeing as it's the CT forum, I've read else where that the medication he was on or not on depending on what forum you read were to blame and also that the plane was taken down deliberately to take out former work colleagues of Snowdon. I'm always slightly amused at those who complain about the behaviour of those on these drugs and not worried about their behaviour that led them to be placed on these medications in the first place. I'm particularly amused that the 'big pharma' industry according to some CT advocates, are deliberately releasing drugs that cause people to commit suicide or mass murders; bit like a fast food chain killing off their clientele by poisoning all their products. I don't understand why would a drugs company release a product that killed it's potential client base.

Anyway as others have said, hopefully the panic was short term and the end was swift and painless.

Reg'stoy · 28-03-2015 1:20pm

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

No, that's not one bit understandable. Not even a little bit.

Indeed one gentleman spoke very well last night on a BBC news report on expressing his sympathy for the co-pilots family and particularly his parents.

Hopefully this whole tragedy will shine an even brighter light on mental health issues and remove the stigma of the 'mental' tag. The aviation industry and in particular budget airlines will have to look at the whole contract employment policies that currently exist. I know in one pretty famous budget airline, rates of pay differ along with sick leave arrangements and staff may be on short term but long term rolling contracts. We as a society tend not to care about the long hours of junior doctors in our A&E departments so will we worry that some contract pilots work two if not three jobs especially in the states.

Now seeing as it's the CT forum, I've read else where that the medication he was on or not on depending on what forum you read were to blame and also that the plane was taken down deliberately to take out former work colleagues of Snowdon. I'm always slightly amused at those who complain about the behaviour of those on these drugs and not worried about their behaviour that led them to be placed on these medications in the first place. I'm particularly amused that the 'big pharma' industry according to some CT advocates, are deliberately releasing drugs that cause people to commit suicide or mass murders; bit like a fast food chain killing off their clientele by poisoning all their products. I don't understand why would a drugs company release a product that killed it's potential client base.

Anyway as others have said, hopefully the panic was short term and the end was swift and painless.

EoghanIRL · 29-03-2015 2:12am

Some conspiracy thoughts.

People who are psychopaths want to hurt others but not themselves.
People who are suicidal want to hurt themselves but not others.Would he not have just crashed the plane straight down using a nose dive into the ocean rather than a descent over several minutes? Or has this been done already with the malaysian missing plane and he wanted to be original by crashing it in a hard to reach location in the alpes.

Second thing is the captains toilet break. Heard an expert on the Matt cooper show on Friday saying how his colleagues and himself never took a toilet break during the climb or straight away when you reach the desired altitude. He said it is normal to wait several minutes at least to make sure things are ok upon reaching altitude/ finishing the climb.
Was a laxative used on the Pilot ?

Overheal · 29-03-2015 4:16pm

Right Turn Clyde wrote: »

No, that's not one bit understandable. Not even a little bit.

Understanding isn't necessary for it to still be a probability. There are plenty of irrational, angry fcuks in this world.

stuar · 10-04-2015 1:03pm

Some fuel to the fire that the Germanwings flight could have been hacked by an outside force, Matt Anderson who some claim has "lost it" because of the below statement:

Anybody doubting the above statement should look at these links:

http://www.weathermodification.com/cloud-seeding-aerial.php

http://www.wtwma.com

http://www.weathermodification.com

http://www.just-clouds.com/

Germanwings Crash Could Actually Have Been The Work Of Hackers, Claims Aviation Expert.

But Andersson, who is the president of Chicago-based Indigo Aerospace, points out that while assertions that the aircraft accelerated in its final descent may well be accurate: “It could be from any number of causes, including external electronic hacking into the aircraft’s control and navigation systems through malware or electromagnetic interception.”

He adds: “This is one reason military and head-of-state aircraft are generally installed with specific shielding and additional active protective measures. Civilian aircraft are not.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/09/germanwings-crash-could-engineered-hacker-claims-aviation-expert_n_7031748.html

Germanwings: Could hackers have crashed the doomed passenger plane rather than co-pilot Andreas Lubitz?

Aviation experts have controversially suggested that the plane's electronics could have been hacked before it crashed into the French Alps.
"Both the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and the flight data recorder (FDR) of the Germanwings flight 9525 have yet to be subject to international standards," he said.
"Until they are, many broad assertions currently presented to the public may turn out to be erroneous, misleading or in some cases lead to improper or counterproductive regulatory and other reactions –including misplaced liability, financial and insurance claims."

Mr Andersson isn't the only aviation expert to suggest the plane could have been the victim of hackers.

Former commercial pilot Jay Rollins told US television channel MSNBC that it could have been a "hacking incident".

"This aircraft is highly computerised," he said.

"There's one possibility that no-one has brought up. I wonder – could this be a hacking incident?"
Mr Rollins also compared the Germanwings disaster to the loss of a US drone over Iran in 2011, which was blamed on electronic hacking by some therorists.

"Suddenly the aircraft starts responding to outside forces," he said.

"If something like that were going on it would be very disturbing for the pilot."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germanwings-could-hackers-crashed-doomed-5483603

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.651159

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGPVYWHd8bU

Another thing, voice recordings can easily be modified after the event, as can video, but with technology long available a live stream of audio and video could easily be broadcast from any aircraft with the addition of video being entered into black box's, something I think is long overdue.

miss tickle · 12-04-2015 12:35am

stuar wrote: »

Some fuel to the fire that the Germanwings flight could have been hacked by an outside force, Matt Anderson who some claim has "lost it" because of the below statement:

Anybody doubting the above statement should look at these links:

http://www.weathermodification.com/cloud-seeding-aerial.php

http://www.wtwma.com

http://www.weathermodification.com

http://www.just-clouds.com/

Germanwings Crash Could Actually Have Been The Work Of Hackers, Claims Aviation Expert.

But Andersson, who is the president of Chicago-based Indigo Aerospace, points out that while assertions that the aircraft accelerated in its final descent may well be accurate: “It could be from any number of causes, including external electronic hacking into the aircraft’s control and navigation systems through malware or electromagnetic interception.”

He adds: “This is one reason military and head-of-state aircraft are generally installed with specific shielding and additional active protective measures. Civilian aircraft are not.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/04/09/germanwings-crash-could-engineered-hacker-claims-aviation-expert_n_7031748.html

Germanwings: Could hackers have crashed the doomed passenger plane rather than co-pilot Andreas Lubitz?

Aviation experts have controversially suggested that the plane's electronics could have been hacked before it crashed into the French Alps.
"Both the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and the flight data recorder (FDR) of the Germanwings flight 9525 have yet to be subject to international standards," he said.
"Until they are, many broad assertions currently presented to the public may turn out to be erroneous, misleading or in some cases lead to improper or counterproductive regulatory and other reactions –including misplaced liability, financial and insurance claims."

Mr Andersson isn't the only aviation expert to suggest the plane could have been the victim of hackers.

Former commercial pilot Jay Rollins told US television channel MSNBC that it could have been a "hacking incident".

"This aircraft is highly computerised," he said.

"There's one possibility that no-one has brought up. I wonder – could this be a hacking incident?"
Mr Rollins also compared the Germanwings disaster to the loss of a US drone over Iran in 2011, which was blamed on electronic hacking by some therorists.

"Suddenly the aircraft starts responding to outside forces," he said.

"If something like that were going on it would be very disturbing for the pilot."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germanwings-could-hackers-crashed-doomed-5483603

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.651159

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGPVYWHd8bU

Another thing, voice recordings can easily be modified after the event, as can video, but with technology long available a live stream of audio and video could easily be broadcast from any aircraft with the addition of video being entered into black box's, something I think is long overdue.

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressreleases/press-release-detail/detail/honeywell-selected-for-a380-flight-management-system/

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/08/07/flight-control-boeings-uninterruptible-autopilot-system-drones-remote-hijacking/

You may notice the link in the auto pilot system.

Germanwings Airbus A320 crash - Cyber Hijacking?

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