Stephen Fry on confronting god after death

beer_hunter · 31-01-2015 1:37pm

eviltwin wrote: »

I've been listening to stories of the holocaust this week, the things that happened to those people....how could a loving God stand by and allow that to happen. Everyday terrible things happen, crime, war, natural disasters. Some God. I want no part of it.

I'm reminded of a quote that was found on a wall in the dorm of an Austrian concentration camp "if there is a god he will have to beg for my forgiveness". That about sums it up for me.

god is only to credit for unconditionally good - positive things

bad stuff = all on humanity

hell of a deal

threeball · 31-01-2015 1:37pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

That's a pretty good argument for marriage being about children you've just made right there!

Why would they have had to be married. Surely the mechanics work the same without a ring

RobertKK · 31-01-2015 1:38pm

BenEadir wrote: »

^^^ What a complete load of nonsense.

What could a baby born with serious physical and mental deformities or one born into an African famine have done to "reject God" and deserve to endure nothing but pain and suffering for what will probably be a short existence?

If you read the passage from Jeremiah that I posted where he gave the prophecy of where the Jews would be in foreign lands , would be hated and hunted down before Israel was restored, you would see there that people will pay for the sins of their ancestors.

Sure we see it with baptism where one gets baptised due to the sin of Adam and Eve and their original sin.

padd b1975 · 31-01-2015 1:40pm

threeball wrote: »

Why would they have had to be married. Surely the mechanics work the same without a ring

Ask Buona Fortuna, he made the original point.

WoollyRedHat · 31-01-2015 1:40pm

I believe in Zorp. When the end of the world comes your faces will be melted off and used as fuel.

beer_hunter · 31-01-2015 1:41pm

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm not religious, but generally I think the answer is 'freewill'. But you also have to remember, to a religious person, their time on Earth is infinitely small compared to an infinitely long eternity in heaven. Presumably, Satan has no impact on the eternal bliss we'd find in heaven.

Or maybe the answer is simply beyond us. There are chimps who can communicate with sign language. They even teach their offspring sign language. They can use tools too. Really impressive stuff. But try to explain to a chimp, using it's 500 word vocab. how to calculate something as simple as Pi. The chimp can't understand.

We know there are things much less intelligent than us. If someone is willing to believe in a God that can create the Universe, it doesn't seem so hard to imagine God being more intelligent than us - to a degree that even the smartest human is only the equivalent of a tiny squirrel brain to it. How would you explain why you need to do your taxes to a squirrel?

free will only explains people doing harm , it explains nothing for those who have harm done to them

threeball · 31-01-2015 1:42pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

Ask Buona Fortuna, he made the original point.

No he didn't, he said a 55yr old could hook up with a twenty year old. You brought the issue of it being a good argument for marriage being about children into it.

Micky Dolenz · 31-01-2015 1:44pm

Some of yous are going to feel pretty silly come judgement day. Scarlet.

padd b1975 · 31-01-2015 1:51pm

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Yeah and the 55 y/o man with his 25 y/o wife nobody says squat.

Post famine that was pretty much the norm, where the eldest son had to wait for mum and dad to die before taking a wife.

If he hadn't taken a woman of child bearing age, there wouldn't have been as many of us around to argue the toss over it now

threeball wrote: »

No he didn't, he said a 55yr old could hook up with a twenty year old. You brought the issue of it being a good argument for marriage being about children into it.

Ahem.;)

Rezident · 31-01-2015 1:53pm

I'm a big fan of Stephen Fry and the guy is clearly a genius but it is not a good answer. It is certainly passionate, but it is just 'why do bad things happen to good people?'

This is like saying why is earth not like heaven? Whether you believe in it or not, heaven is obviously eternal paradise, earth is obviously not. Why on earth would you expect earth to be like heaven? He has missed the whole point.

threeball · 31-01-2015 1:57pm

Rezident wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Stephen Fry and the guy is clearly a genius but it is not a good answer. It is certainly passionate, but it is just 'why do bad things happen to good people?'

This is like saying why is earth not like heaven? Whether you believe in it or not, heaven is obviously eternal paradise, earth is obviously not. Why on earth would you expect earth to be like heaven? He has missed the whole point.

I think you missed the point.

He clearly believes that none of this has anything to do with a God. Its a little process called evolution that has created a life form that created a myth

Hercule Poirot · 31-01-2015 1:58pm

RobertKK wrote: »

If you read the passage from Jeremiah that I posted where he gave the prophecy of where the Jews would be in foreign lands , would be hated and hunted down before Israel was restored, you would see there that people will pay for the sins of their ancestors.

Sure we see it with baptism where one gets baptised due to the sin of Adam and Eve and their original sin.

Are you Glenn Hoddle by any chance?

So if I beat up some guy because his father stole money from me it's not acceptable - but if God does it it's totally OK and we should worship him regardless?

Fry makes a very valid point, no amount of scripture can hide what is a very basic truth - throughout history millions (probably billions) of innocent people have suffered terribly through no fault of their own (the example Fry gave of bone cancer in children being an excellent example) and yet this is acceptable to you?

Grayson · 31-01-2015 2:00pm

Rezident wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Stephen Fry and the guy is clearly a genius but it is not a good answer. It is certainly passionate, but it is just 'why do bad things happen to good people?'

This is like saying why is earth not like heaven? Whether you believe in it or not, heaven is obviously eternal paradise, earth is obviously not. Why on earth would you expect earth to be like heaven? He has missed the whole point.

I think you missed it. Your answer is that they are different because they are. Why does the universe have to contain pain and suffering? Why does it have to inflict misery on innocent children?
Your answer seems to be, "well if that didn't happen then the world would be far better and probably like heaven"

shruikan2553 · 31-01-2015 2:02pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

Ahem.;)

In those days people got married before having children. To have children outside of marriage was frowned upon to put it nicely.

Skylinehead · 31-01-2015 2:03pm

RobertKK wrote: »

people will pay for the sins of their ancestors.

Oh, and that's ok is it? So if one of my ancestors (there's a few United Irishmen there) did something bad 300 years ago like murder, it's perfectly ok for me to suffer as a result.

Your god seems to be a bit of a prick.

padd b1975 · 31-01-2015 2:04pm

shruikan2553 wrote: »

In those days people got married before having children. To have children outside of marriage was frowned upon to put it nicely.

Absolutely.

Another poster was misrepresented earlier, I was just setting the record straight.

padd b1975 · 31-01-2015 2:11pm

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

So a 30 year age gap is fine in that instance then?

It's not ideal, but if there's no other means available to have a family, then so be it.

RobertKK · 31-01-2015 2:13pm

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

Are you Glenn Hoddle by any chnace?

So if I beat up some guy because his father stole money from me it's not acceptable - but if God does it it's totally OK and we should worship him regardless?

Fry makes a very valid point, no amount of scripture can hide what is a very basic truth - throughout history millions (probably billions) of innocent people have suffered terribly through no fault of their own (the example Fry gave of bone cancer in children being an excellent example) and yet this is acceptable to you?

Read my post, read the earlier quoted bit from the prophet Jeremiah. Look at why baptism exists.

It has nothing to do with what I believe or don't believe, it is there plain and clear in the bible, and plain and clear in baptism where one is baptised because they are seen to carry the original sin of Adam and Eve.

Where did I post bone cancer in children is acceptable to me?
Stephen Fry knows full well that Earth is not utopia but then acted like a fool and said he would reject heaven, ie a Utopian place where all is good.
Rezident made a good point, Fry acts as if Earth is suppose to be a heaven. Earth is a place where good and bad exists. We can either accept and try and make it a better place, or be bitter as Fry was in that interview.
We were given talent and soon we will cure all cancers as things like gene therapy advance.
Some would argue God given talent...

RobertKK · 31-01-2015 2:14pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

Oh, and that's ok is it? So if one of my ancestors (there's a few United Irishmen there) did something bad 300 years ago like murder, it's perfectly ok for me to suffer as a result.

Your god seems to be a bit of a prick.

Did I say it was ok?

According to the bible that is the way it is. One can take or leave it, no one is being forced to accept or believe that.

Skylinehead · 31-01-2015 2:16pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Did I say it was ok?

According to the bible that is the way it is. One can take or leave it, no one is being forced to accept or believe that.

No, you didn't. I'm just pointing out that your god is a prick.

RobertKK · 31-01-2015 2:18pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

No, you didn't. I'm just pointing out that your god is a prick.

If God exists, he would be your God too since he would have being behind the creation, and it would be a case of you having rejected your God whom you see as a prick...

endacl · 31-01-2015 2:20pm

chakademus wrote: »

There's something so insufferable about Stephen Fry.

At least he exists though, and if you think his book is full of bollocks, you can tell him.

Venus In Furs · 31-01-2015 2:24pm

I liked Stephen Fry until his sneery, dismissive comment about when people are offended.
The man has publicly taken offence at times himself so he should have added "... apart from when it offends ME" to that comment (often trotted out now by the "free speech at all costs" crowd).

Anyway, what he says here is completely unremarkable. It's the main reason that people don't believe. If god exists, it's either benevolent or omnipotent, it's not possible that god is both. I love the "He is LOVE

but he'll send you to hell if you don't believe in him!!! :mad:" crowd.

relax carry on wrote: »

I will never understand those people who feel the need to troll. I mean what's wrong in your life that you need to do things like this?

It's bewilderingly sad indeed. Wish people wouldn't feed them though (not directing that at you). A reaction is the sole reason for their existence.

padd b1975 wrote: »

I don't doubt that for a second.

It's the love sick old guy with the history of mental illness I would worry about most.

Padd, why don't you just say you don't like gay people?

All this skirting around, the age gap, the guy's history of mental illness (noice - how christian of you), people can see right through it, so you may as well just spit it out. At least that would be honesty.

Skylinehead · 31-01-2015 2:30pm

RobertKK wrote: »

If God exists, he would be your God too since he would have being behind the creation, and it would be a case of you having rejected your God whom you see as a prick...

I guess he would be, but obviously we don't know that. And it's not that I see him as a prick, he is/he would be a prick, otherwise he wouldn't be punishing people for things they didn't even do.

RobYourBuilder · 31-01-2015 2:35pm

Gaybo is some man for one man. He knew exactly what he was doing when he pulled the face. An old pro.

padd b1975 · 31-01-2015 2:44pm

Venus In Furs wrote: »

Padd, why don't you just say you don't like gay people?
All this skirting around, the age gap, the guy's history of mental illness (noice - how christian of you), people can see right through it, so you may as well just spit it out. At least that would be honesty.

Fry is nothing more than a pompous, narcissistic, and slightly boorish oaf who likes the sound of his own opinions.

The fact that he has managed to carve out a lucrative career as a social commentator on the back of this is a mystery to me.

As for him being gay........meh!

danrua01 · 31-01-2015 2:46pm

padd b1975 wrote: »

Fry is nothing more than a pompous, narcissistic oaf

how so? plus, he carved a career out of comedy, not this...

padd b1975 · 31-01-2015 2:47pm

RobYourBuilder wrote: »

Gaybo is some man for one man. He knew exactly what he was doing when he pulled the face. An old pro.

He pulled the exact same face many years ago when a drunk Oliver Reed tried to ride a female panellist.

The guy has a nose for good television.

WeHaveToGoBack · 31-01-2015 2:49pm

chrysagon wrote: »

Fry has had a few digs at Christians, irionic that hes a jew.
And anyway, he has a point,Why would god if he /she existed create a world with such misery.

He's not Jewish, he's an athiest

kowloon · 31-01-2015 2:49pm

hardCopy wrote: »

Christianity is a spin-off and Islam is more a of a reboot

A Michael Bay reboot, the explosion count is starting to take the pi55.

Stephen Fry on confronting god after death

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