"What about the homos?"

efb · 19-01-2015 8:56am #1

I'm aghast, but not surprised.
http://www.thejournal.ie/equality-tribunal-ruling-1889466-Jan2015/?utm_source=shortlink

evolving_doors · 19-01-2015 10:04am

Sorry OP, the click through doesn't work on my phone.. if you could give a tl;dr of the story thatd be great

I presume the title isnt your opinion either so maybe stick some quotation marks around them.

spurious · 19-01-2015 10:11am

Wow, just wow.
http://www.thejournal.ie/equality-tribunal-ruling-1889466-Jan2015/

tl; dr;
Deputy Principal goes for Principalship. Shenanigans in interview process. New interview. Same board, including a nun who asked 'What about the homos?' during the interview.
Person who was appointed was younger, less qualified, less experienced.
Discrimination. Year's salary compo.

gaiscioch · 19-01-2015 6:20pm

The female teacher, who was deputy principal at the time, made the complaint against the unidentified school where she has worked since 2003

Is there any reason why the school in question can hide behind anonymity? I'd personally like to know if my local school is full of troglodytes on the Board of Management.

evolving_doors · 19-01-2015 7:11pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

Is there any reason why the school in question can hide behind anonymity? I'd personally like to know if my local school is full of troglodytes on the Board of Management.

Maybe the teacher was given the right to keep anonymity !

Just wondering.... how did the court accept that the homo quote was said? were other board members testifying against the nun! Or was it a balance of probabilities that the judge sided with the teacher kind of thing!

berger89 · 19-01-2015 7:13pm

Armelodie wrote: »

Maybe the teacher was given the right to keep anonymity !

Just wondering.... how did the court accept that the homo quote was said? were other board members testifying against the nun! Or was it a balance of probabilities that the judge sided with the teacher kind of thing!

I think the nun got selective memory when questioned. Apparently, she could remember stuff from years ago over her career, but suddenly couldn't remember much about this interview or THAT question that she asked

Frankly frank · 19-01-2015 7:32pm

The nuns of Sant’Ambrogio

mikom · 19-01-2015 7:37pm

spurious wrote: »

Wow, just wow.
http://www.thejournal.ie/equality-tribunal-ruling-1889466-Jan2015/

tl; dr;
Deputy Principal goes for Principalship. Shenanigans in interview process. New interview. Same board, including a nun who asked 'What about the homos?' during the interview.
Person who was appointed was younger, less qualified, less experienced.
Discrimination. Year's salary compo.

The nun got cut off too early.
What she was going to say was..... "What about the homophones?"
They take linguistics very seriously at that school.

peckerhead · 19-01-2015 8:55pm

gaiscioch wrote: »

Is there any reason why the school in question can hide behind anonymity? I'd personally like to know if my local school is full of troglodytes on the Board of Management.

Most Catholic schools maintain at least a 51% quota.

oceanclub · 19-01-2015 9:43pm

The argument for religious-run schools is often "choice".

Therefore, why aren't people told the name of this school so they have the choice of not exposing their children - gay or straight - to a hate-filled environment?

P.

orl · 19-01-2015 11:47pm

Boards won't let me post the original decision but it is DEC-E2014-097 on the workplacerelations website.

The EO said Sr B could recall other questions in the interview very well but not that one. The rest of the interview panel did not deny that she made the comment. The complainant was very credible and the standard of proof is ' balance of probabilities' rather than a criminal one.

Where complainants request anonymity, the Equality Tribunal usually give it. The teacher that took the case is still teaching in the school and the less qualified, less experienced other candidate is her Principal.

oceanclub · 20-01-2015 12:11am

orl wrote: »

Boards won't let me post the original decision but it is DEC-E2014-097 on the workplacerelations website.

The EO said Sr B could recall other questions in the interview very well but not that one. The rest of the interview panel did not deny that she made the comment. The complainant was very credible and the standard of proof is ' balance of probabilities' rather than a criminal one.

Where complainants request anonymity, the Equality Tribunal usually give it. The teacher that took the case is still teaching in the school and the less qualified, less experienced other candidate is her Principal.

From the link:

In particular, she submits that the presence of Mr C. was in contravention of the rules of procedure mentioned above

Does anyone know why this was the case?

P.

Noccy_Mondy · 20-01-2015 12:12am

What in hells fire is a nun doing on that panel. I know that most schools are tied with the catholic church, but what benefit would the likes of that one be to any BOM. I'm aware that a priest is often on a panel. More than likely just a representative figure who's views are outdated and backward.

orl · 21-01-2015 12:14am

@oceanclub - I reread the decision and figure that out either

evolving_doors · 21-01-2015 7:50am

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

What in hells fire is a nun doing on that panel. I know that most schools are tied with the catholic church, but what benefit would the likes of that one be to any BOM. I'm aware that a priest is often on a panel. More than likely just a representative figure who's views are outdated and backward.

Presumably the nun was The Expert on the ethos... who knows!
Maybe thats why the younger less qualified teacher got it.... better at ethosing.

Haven't I mentioned the ethossssss yet? rolleyes

Surprised they didn't mention it in their defence though.

RealJohn · 21-01-2015 10:47am

Armelodie wrote: »

Presumably the nun was The Expert on the ethos... who knows!
Maybe thats why the younger less qualified teacher got it.... better at ethosing.

Haven't I mentioned the ethossssss yet? rolleyes

Surprised they didn't mention it in their defence though.

You say that as though a school's ethos isn't relevant in hiring someone. Ethos isn't an excuse for blatant discrimination but it is a relevant concern in any interview for any position in a school.

evolving_doors · 21-01-2015 11:34am

RealJohn wrote: »

You say that as though a school's ethos isn't relevant in hiring someone. Ethos isn't an excuse for blatant discrimination but it is a relevant concern in any interview for any position in a school.

Sadly the ethos IS a very blatant excuse for blatant discrimination because of section 37 (contravening the 9 grounds of discrimination).

Does anyone really know what this nebulous thing called 'the ethos' is, its only pseudo business speak for being a 'lovely caring school'.

I can understand giving preference for a teacher who has been through a school as a past pupil or whatever. But taking about ethos being a definable thing may as well be talking about quantum physics. Hence my mockery of its use in legal cases!

Asarlai · 21-01-2015 11:46am

orl wrote: »

The rest of the interview panel did not deny that she made the comment.

Not true. "When further asked about her question on ‘What about about homos?’, the nun and the other two interviewers denied that it had taken place."

macyard · 21-01-2015 11:53am

Asarlai wrote: »

Not true. "When further asked about her question on ‘What about about homos?’, the nun and the other two interviewers denied that it had taken place."

Sounds like thev ice principle is saltys she did not get the job and made up a case, a nun wouldn't use the word homo's she could have made it more believable by say the nun said gay or homosexual

seavill · 21-01-2015 1:54pm

Yea because we all know nuns and priests would never do or say anything wrong ever

macyard · 21-01-2015 1:55pm

seavill wrote: »

Yea because we all know nuns and priests would never do or say anything wrong ever

It's not they wouldn't ask a question like that, it's they wouldn't use the word homo's, gay homosexual queer maybe homo's is to slang

seavill · 21-01-2015 1:57pm

You have no basis for that statement.

macyard · 21-01-2015 1:57pm

seavill wrote: »

You have no basis for that statement.

Just like there is none the nun said it, actually evidence is the nun didn't say it.

spurious · 21-01-2015 2:05pm

Those of us who have actually worked in that sort of place are well capable of forming an informed opinion as to what was likely said.

macyard · 21-01-2015 2:16pm

spurious wrote: »

Those of us who have actually worked in that sort of place are well capable of forming an informed opinion as to what was likely said.

I have worked with nuns and priests sure they might not like gay people they would never use slang like that

feargale · 21-01-2015 2:16pm

The fact is that certainly up to recently nuns were promoted not on the basis of ability but mainly on their capacity for "obedience." I once went to a nun, the principal of a primary school attended by my dyslexic child to discuss the problem. The essence of what I was told was that it was the will of God. Imagine being told that by a surgeon treating you for cancer! FFS, sister, and you were being paid a salary by the state?

RealJohn · 21-01-2015 2:52pm

spurious wrote: »

Those of us who have actually worked in that sort of place are well capable of forming an informed opinion as to what was likely said.

In what sort of place? Unless you know way school it is (maybe you do) then you don't know what kind of place it is. You're just making assumptions based on what's been reported in the media.

If we're going to make assumptions, I'm going to assume that it was a private educate together Gaelscoil and they decided to have a nun on the panel for the sake of inclusivity. The 'homos' she supposedly referred to were the other members of the interview panel who were also lovers. How's that for an assumption?

RealJohn · 21-01-2015 2:54pm

Armelodie wrote: »

Sadly the ethos IS a very blatant excuse for blatant discrimination because of section 37 (contravening the 9 grounds of discrimination).

Does anyone really know what this nebulous thing called 'the ethos' is, its only pseudo business speak for being a 'lovely caring school'.

I can understand giving preference for a teacher who has been through a school as a past pupil or whatever. But taking about ethos being a definable thing may as well be talking about quantum physics. Hence my mockery of its use in legal cases!

You can't be serious, can you? You think 'ethos' is something mystical, "nebulous", difficult to define? It really isn't.

evolving_doors · 21-01-2015 4:11pm

RealJohn wrote: »

You can't be serious, can you? You think 'ethos' is something mystical, "nebulous", difficult to define? It really isn't.

Go on so... what is?

aunt aggie · 21-01-2015 7:25pm

RealJohn wrote: »

You can't be serious, can you? You think 'ethos' is something mystical, "nebulous", difficult to define? It really isn't.

I watched a Religion teacher tailor her cover letter to ethos of ETB, CoI and Catholic schools. It goes from hollistic development of the person, to respect for all faiths, to encouraging Christian values in modern world. Was very interesting.

School's have something they want to hear. That's the ethos.

Happily no one ever asks the Maths teacher about any of this

evolving_doors · 21-01-2015 7:46pm

aunt aggie wrote: »

I watched a Religion teacher tailor her cover letter to ethos of ETB, CoI and Catholic schools. It goes from hollistic development of the person, to respect for all faiths, to encouraging Christian values in modern world. Was very interesting.

School's have something they want to hear. That's the ethos.

Happily no one ever asks the Maths teacher about any of this

Thats my point , the bold part above might as well be just saying ' we're different because we're extra nicer than those other schools with a different ethos'. When in actual fact its just mission statement hogwash.

Would any school be against the above 'selling points'... of course not. But when it comes to discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation/marital status the old 'ethos' is pulled out of the bag in court (if it even gets that far!).

Funnily enough I've never seen 'we dont want gays/pregnant students/divorced teachers' or whatever in their policy documents on ethos or blurb on 'about the school' on their website. Wonder why?

robp · 21-01-2015 9:52pm

Armelodie wrote: »

Does anyone really know what this nebulous thing called 'the ethos' is, its only pseudo business speak for being a 'lovely caring school'.

I can understand giving preference for a teacher who has been through a school as a past pupil or whatever. But taking about ethos being a definable thing may as well be talking about quantum physics. Hence my mockery of its use in legal cases!

Some schools have a GAA ethos. Some schools have a very distinct academic Jesuit, while others emphasise Irish language. If you are against schools having an individual ethos you are against Irish languages schools and every other sort of school level expression.

robp · 21-01-2015 9:56pm

Armelodie wrote: »

Funnily enough I've never seen 'we dont want gays/pregnant students/divorced teachers' or whatever in their policy documents on ethos or blurb on 'about the school' on their website. Wonder why?

I have never heard of a school not wanting to hear homosexuals etc. However I have heard of schools prioritizing hiring staff who agree with the curriculum and rightly so. Asking a Jewish or secular person to teach Catholicism is like asking a Young Earth Creationist to teach leaving cert biology :rolleyes:. It is absolutely illogical.

evolving_doors · 21-01-2015 11:04pm

robp wrote: »

Some schools have a GAA ethos.

Well I would presume that this is your understanding of some school's ethos. However, I would like to see an example of 'we have a GAA ethos' written in their mission statement about the school (not just in the extra curricular section).

robp wrote: »

Some schools have a very distinct academic Jesuit,

Again , does it explicitly state this or is this your understanding of the school. Isn't the 'academic' selling point just a coy way of saying 'fee-paying/middle class' school with no riff-raff. As a case in point we'll pull out one of these schools mission statement. (This one isn't actually a fee paying school but I think it would be safe to say that it's history is grounded in middle class attendees... for the purposes of the Ethos discussion there's no need to name the school.)

School X has dedicated teachers who are committed to high academic standards. The college provides a rich and diverse curriculum catering for the needs of each individual student. It strives for excellence also in the areas of social concern and spiritual values, sport and culture, wherein students are encouraged and challenged to realise their full potential as human beings in the Ignatian tradition.

So presumably you may contend this this is the Ethos of the school unique to that school. But I would argue differently.

What school would advertise that they don't have "dedicated teachers..."
What school would advertise that they don't have "a rich and diverse curriculum..."
What school would advertise that they don't " cater for the needs of the individual student..."
What school would advertise that they don't " strive[] for excellence also in the areas of social concern and spiritual values." Edit: MAybe several non denominationals but that's a different debate.
What school would advertise that they don't help students " realise their full potential as human beings ."
The last point "In the Ignation Tradition"... what's that all about?

So if you strip it all away, there's nothing that isn't easily copy and pastable into another school's ethos statement, and if you look at any other ethos statements they are much the same.
Although .... there is the little kicker in there of Religion "In the Ignation Tradition". So then we are down the road of discrimination with things like in the title being fair comment because of the Ethos...

Similarly this quote below is all above board on the grounds of protecting the ethos...

’I will not and do not accept single mothers in this school. The school has an uncompromising ethos and will not become a dumping ground for those rejected elsewhere....Do not try to blame this school for having a moral code. You have no business coming down here to single us out - we are a Catholic school and shall remain so’.

So to go from a wishy washy statement about ethos in a schools mission statement, to the above quote, seems all above board and supported by things like section 37.

In essence, I'm not against schools having a selling-point/catch-phrase (or ethos as it might like to be called). That's all fine and dandy, the school can say they specialise in unicorns and Harry Potter for all I care. But what I do take exception to is folk feeling that they have a 'get out of jail free' card by strutting out the ethos. This in turn gives them the notion to act the maggot in interviews and terminations of employment.

RealJohn · 21-01-2015 11:55pm

Armelodie wrote: »

Go on so... what is?

It's anything that the school considers to be an important part of the students' development outside of the national curricula which are standard across all schools in this country.

A school with a particular religious ethos would discourage practices not in keeping with that religion and encourage practicing that religion properly.
A school with a sporting ethos would place a high emphasis on participating in sport and probably good health as that affects sporting performance.
Gaelscoileanna and Gaelcholáistí have an ethos of providing education in our native language (which is practically banned from boards.ie because the powers that be feel that mods don't know how to use Google translate) and encourage the students to develop a love of their language.

On that note, would people be complaining if a Gaelcholáiste didn't hire someone who was fully qualified and more experienced than some other candidate if that candidate actively campaigned against the Irish language outside of school? I doubt it. Why? Because that person is openly undermining the school's ethos and that affects how the students see the school. It's a bit like the way we were all told during our dips (I would think) that teachers shouldn't chew gum in class or sit at their desk texting if the students aren't allowed to because it undermines the school's rules. The same goes for ethos.

katydid · 22-01-2015 9:48pm

Noccy_Mondy wrote: »

What in hells fire is a nun doing on that panel. I know that most schools are tied with the catholic church, but what benefit would the likes of that one be to any BOM. I'm aware that a priest is often on a panel. More than likely just a representative figure who's views are outdated and backward.

If it's a RC run school, why wouldn't there be a priest or nun on the panel?

katydid · 22-01-2015 9:50pm

macyard wrote: »

I have worked with nuns and priests sure they might not like gay people they would never use slang like that

In YOUR experience.

katydid · 22-01-2015 9:56pm

robp wrote: »

Asking a Jewish or secular person to teach Catholicism is like asking a Young Earth Creationist to teach leaving cert biology :rolleyes:. It is absolutely illogical.

Those who hire staff for RC schools only hear what they want to hear. Of course an interviewee will say they are a practicing Catholic, of course they will say so. Once they are employed, they can do what they want. I am personally aware of two people who are primary teachers in an RC school, one of whom teaches a First Communion class, who have no religious belief.

The only way to ensure that genuine believers educate children in religious doctrine is to do it through the church. But it isn't interested in fulfilling that part of its mission - it's quite happy to have its children educated by atheists, as long as they say at the interview that they are RC's.

evolving_doors · 22-01-2015 10:57pm

RealJohn wrote: »

It's anything that the school considers to be an important part of the students' development outside of the national curricula which are standard across all schools in this country.

A school with a particular religious ethos would discourage practices not in keeping with that religion and encourage practicing that religion properly.
A school with a sporting ethos would place a high emphasis on participating in sport and probably good health as that affects sporting performance.
Gaelscoileanna and Gaelcholáistí have an ethos of providing education in our native language (which is practically banned from boards.ie because the powers that be feel that mods don't know how to use Google translate) and encourage the students to develop a love of their language.

On that note, would people be complaining if a Gaelcholáiste didn't hire someone who was fully qualified and more experienced than some other candidate if that candidate actively campaigned against the Irish language outside of school? I doubt it. Why? Because that person is openly undermining the school's ethos and that affects how the students see the school. It's a bit like the way we were all told during our dips (I would think) that teachers shouldn't chew gum in class or sit at their desk texting if the students aren't allowed to because it undermines the school's rules. The same goes for ethos.

Its not about 'not hiring' per se , its about 'firing'. Would you fire the music teacher because they didn't undertake any sports outside school.. obviously they are going against the ethos of a sporty school!

Also where did Jesus say that 'gays/pregnant teenagers/divorcee's' arent in keeping with his teachings...

Also, Sure ya you wouldnt be campaigning against Irish and looking for a job in a gaelscoil. Thats a given, but what about if you aren't a religioun teacher but get fired because you happen to be 'homo'.... were you supposed to declare this in the job interview?

Do you see a cross on a wall in the interview room and automatically think oh theres the jesus guy who died for me but he's against homosexuality (apparently!)... I better terminate the interview and look for another school that doesnt have 'religious values'.

Theres a lot of dancing around this Ethos... but I've yet to see a school explicitly state 'no gays/divorcee's' welcome. Why dont they just explicitly state this and stop hiding behind 'ethos' and 'religious values'? It always seems to only come out after the fact!

If it makes it any clearer, boards.ie has been explicit about not posting in Irish only from the very outset. But, being inclusive, it is asked that the polite thing be done and provide a translation for the benefit of mods (who are volunteers btw) and others. Why would anyone persist in protesting against the rules when its what they signed up to in the first place. No one is being excluded in this case and there have been no attempts at subterfuge or reprimands given. Homolinguals are allowed to practice as long as they include everyone.

No hidden ethos needed there!

RealJohn · 23-01-2015 1:06am

Armelodie wrote: »

Its not about 'not hiring' per se , its about 'firing'. Would you fire the music teacher because they didn't undertake any sports outside school.. obviously they are going against the ethos of a sporty school!

Also where did Jesus say that 'gays/pregnant teenagers/divorcee's' arent in keeping with his teachings...

Also, Sure ya you wouldnt be campaigning against Irish and looking for a job in a gaelscoil. Thats a given, but what about if you aren't a religioun teacher but get fired because you happen to be 'homo'.... were you supposed to declare this in the job interview?

Do you see a cross on a wall in the interview room and automatically think oh theres the jesus guy who died for me but he's against homosexuality (apparently!)... I better terminate the interview and look for another school that doesnt have 'religious values'.

Theres a lot of dancing around this Ethos... but I've yet to see a school explicitly state 'no gays/divorcee's' welcome. Why dont they just explicitly state this and stop hiding behind 'ethos' and 'religious values'? It always seems to only come out after the fact!

If it makes it any clearer, boards.ie has been explicit about not posting in Irish only from the very outset. But, being inclusive, it is asked that the polite thing be done and provide a translation for the benefit of mods (who are volunteers btw) and others. Why would anyone persist in protesting against the rules when its what they signed up to in the first place. No one is being excluded in this case and there have been no attempts at subterfuge or reprimands given. Homolinguals are allowed to practice as long as they include everyone.

No hidden ethos needed there!

First of all, in this discussion, it is about hiring, not firing because we're talking about a case where someone was passed over for promotion in favour of someone younger and less experienced who subsequently successfully sued on the grounds of discrimination (and bafflingly, the court found that as well as being discriminated against as a result of her age, she was also somehow discriminated against based on her sexuality and religion even though she professes to have been of both the religion and sexual orientation they were supposedly looking for - that's a separate issue though).

However, on the slight tangent on firing you went off on, would you fire the music teacher? Well if they said that they'd get on board with the sporting ethos or implied that they would, then why not fire them? If they made it clear that they wouldn't be getting involved when asked at interview (and you'd expect them to be asked in those circumstances) then firing then for doing what they said they'd do would be unjust, although not renewing their contract in favour of interviewing for a more appropriate candidate wouldn't.

Neither of those are examples of what we're talking about though. What we're talking about is a scenario where that music teacher did get involved with sports and did what was explicitly required of them but at the same time, actively undermined the schools ethos at other times, like if they were telling the students in class that sports were a waste of time and that they should concentrate on music instead or if, in this imaginary scenario, that there was some sort of conflict within the government with regards the education budget with one side wanting to give more funding to sport and the other wanting to give more funding to the arts and he/she openly opposed the extra sports funding. That would be undermining the school's sporting ethos and could result in a semi-justifiable (if harsh in that case) termination of the teacher's contract.

You can plead ignorance if you like but I very much doubt that you don't have a very good idea of what a school with a Catholic ethos expects. You must have moved to Ireland very recently if you don't.

The Irish thing wasn't really directed at you and I apologise for the 'snarkiness' of it. I'm just annoyed that after a mod (it might have been you - I don't remember) suggested that I raise the Irish language issue in feedback but when I did, another mod shot me down almost immediately and locked the thread without even giving me a chance to respond (and also didn't respond to my subsequent, admittedly ratty, pm), claiming that he/she was doing it to prevent the thread from descending into a discussion (not quite the way he/she put it but that was the gist). I appreciate that the mods are volunteers but if you're going to volunteer for something you should be willing to do it properly and that mod is not doing his/her job properly. A mod's job is to facilitate discussion, not shut it down before it starts just because he/she thinks they know how it'll go.

evolving_doors · 23-01-2015 1:55am

RealJohn wrote: »

First of all, in this discussion, it is about hiring, not firing because we're talking about a case where someone was passed over for promotion in favour of someone younger and less experienced who subsequently successfully sued on the grounds of discrimination (and bafflingly, the court found that as well as being discriminated against as a result of her age, she was also somehow discriminated against based on her sexuality and religion even though she professes to have been of both the religion and sexual orientation they were supposedly looking for - that's a separate issue though).

However, on the slight tangent on firing you went off on, would you fire the music teacher? Well if they said that they'd get on board with the sporting ethos or implied that they would, then why not fire them? If they made it clear that they wouldn't be getting involved when asked at interview (and you'd expect them to be asked in those circumstances) then firing then for doing what they said they'd do would be unjust, although not renewing their contract in favour of interviewing for a more appropriate candidate wouldn't.

Neither of those are examples of what we're talking about though. What we're talking about is a scenario where that music teacher did get involved with sports and did what was explicitly required of them but at the same time, actively undermined the schools ethos at other times, like if they were telling the students in class that sports were a waste of time and that they should concentrate on music instead or if, in this imaginary scenario, that there was some sort of conflict within the government with regards the education budget with one side wanting to give more funding to sport and the other wanting to give more funding to the arts and he/she openly opposed the extra sports funding. That would be undermining the school's sporting ethos and could result in a semi-justifiable (if harsh in that case) termination of the teacher's contract.

You can plead ignorance if you like but I very much doubt that you don't have a very good idea of what a school with a Catholic ethos expects. You must have moved to Ireland very recently if you don't.

The Irish thing wasn't really directed at you and I apologise for the 'snarkiness' of it. I'm just annoyed that after a mod (it might have been you - I don't remember) suggested that I raise the Irish language issue in feedback but when I did, another mod shot me down almost immediately and locked the thread without even giving me a chance to respond (and also didn't respond to my subsequent, admittedly ratty, pm), claiming that he/she was doing it to prevent the thread from descending into a discussion (not quite the way he/she put it but that was the gist). I appreciate that the mods are volunteers but if you're going to volunteer for something you should be willing to do it properly and that mod is not doing his/her job properly. A mod's job is to facilitate discussion, not shut it down before it starts just because he/she thinks they know how it'll go.

Quite simply (the bold part)... show me any school ethos that explicitly states 'teachers/students of a certain sexual orientation are not welcome'.

The answer we all know is that for a school to overtly 'come out' and say it , would blatantly be wrong. And you don't need the moral compass of religion or an ethos to point that out. The nun in the interview was ruled to have done what others are afraid to do. At least she was laying her cards on the table by showing her bigotry from the outset...

Just because you have an ethos and Section 37 to hide behind, it doesn't (or shouldn't) give anyone the right to discriminate on the nine equality grounds.

As regards the Irish Language saga arguing over it would be like a student in the gaeltacht continuously squabbling with the teacher that the school should use English and Irish. At some stage the teacher has to stop explaining WHY the rules are there and tell the student they came to the gaelteacht of their own volition. They knew the rules from the outset but still see fit to argue about them. It's like complaining about processed food whilst gorging on a Big Mac and french fries.

RealJohn · 23-01-2015 7:32am

Armelodie wrote: »

Quite simply (the bold part)... show me any school ethos that explicitly states 'teachers/students of a certain sexual orientation are not welcome'.

That isn't stated because it isn't the case and there is no evidence to suggest that this was the motivation behind the question in this case (if it was even asked the way it was alleged - all members of the interview panel claim that they don't remember it that way and, as has been mentioned already, it doesn't seem like the sort of language you'd expect from a member of an interview panel) either beyond what people are assuming to be the case.

Armelodie wrote: »

As regards the Irish Language saga arguing over it would be like a student in the gaeltacht continuously squabbling with the teacher that the school should use English and Irish. At some stage the teacher has to stop explaining WHY the rules are there and tell the student they came to the gaelteacht of their own volition. They knew the rules from the outset but still see fit to argue about them. It's like complaining about processed food whilst gorging on a Big Mac and french fries.

Now this is certainly an interesting way of interpreting things. A mod is not in the same position as a teacher in the Gaeltacht and it is a little worrying to me if you (or other mods) see things that way. I am not a child who is here because my parents signed me up and don't know what's good for me. I am a highly educated adult with lots of experience, both in life and in the use of internet forums and was under the impression (because I was given that impression by a mod on this forum) that I could raise my issue in the feedback section of boards. Rather than allowing my issue to be discussed, another mod shut me down straight away, as though I was a child who didn't know any better. Rules are not set in stone in most things in life. What is the purpose of a feedback forum if you're not allowed to actually discuss things?

Is your attitude the policy for boards mods? That the posters are like children who need to be controlled, even in the forum specifically set up to give them a voice with regards how things are run. What is boards.ie's mission statement anyway? I wouldn't think that it was intended as an english language forum specifically but rather, as a forum to be used by the people of Ireland. The former might have come into it when they realised what the latter entailed but, as I mentioned before, Google translate does an adequate job these days so mods not being able to speak Irish really isn't the excuse it used to be.

The rule, as it stands, effectively bans the use of Irish from any forum other than those where it is expressly allowed. Just look at the thread from which this whole thing arose. Almost all responses have been exclusively in english even though it was aimed specifically at Irish speakers. You're very much against discrimination in a school setting (and rightly so) but you seem to be on board with it here. You say that I knew the rules when I signed up. So did that woman who went to interview referenced in this OP of this thread.

ustazjoseph · 27-01-2015 7:01pm

I think it's worth remembering in this situation that whatever their "ethos" the majority of schools are funded by the department ie the Taxpayers. The govt are entitled to insist that if schools are taking govt money they absolutely have to abide by Equality legislation. If the want a " no who evers " policy to fit in with their ethos maybe they should'nt be govt funded.

"What about the homos?"

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