Why does ireland have one of the highest suicide rates?

Maybe_Memories · 26-11-2014 7:09pm

nadey wrote: »

True, depression and anxiety is as much an illness as cancer.

Fuhrer wrote: »

Its not.

Care to elaborate on that?

nadey · 26-11-2014 7:15pm

Maybe_Memories wrote: »

Care to elaborate on that?

Fuhrers gone awol cos he knows he was talking crap

Theflyingegg · 26-11-2014 7:17pm

I was suicidal in my teen years had no friends, lonely, felt unless, etc but somewhere along the line my whole mentality shifted for the better and now I think nothing but positive thoughts and people tell me I have a great attitude and outlook on life now. Boy how that was different 4 years ago.

I can only think how many people, who unlike me had the balls to do something completely insane, would have gone on to see brighter days too.

When times are tough the world is a cold, brutal and merciless place. But things do get better and do improve with time, and while some **** might still judge me negatively and look down on me etc but I am in a place now where I can finally shut off all negativity and also not give a single **** what people think either. Life's improved for me hugely and it's slowly keeps getting better and everyday and I finally feel happy.

So if anybody has suicidal thoughts or ye know somebody who does dont let suicide happen. It is really impossible to believe when you are going through it, I know this from first hand experience, but things do get better and depression does pass.

nadey · 26-11-2014 7:24pm

Theflyingegg wrote: »

I was suicidal in my teen years had no friends, lonely, felt unless, etc but somewhere along the line my whole mentality shifted for the better and now I think nothing but positive thoughts and people tell me I have a great attitude and outlook on life now. Boy how that was different 4 years ago.

I can only think how many people, who unlike me had the balls to do something completely insane, would have gone on to see brighter days too.

When times are tough the world is a cold, brutal and merciless place. But things do get better and do improve with time, and while some **** might still judge me negatively and look down on me etc but I am in a place now where I can finally shut off all negativity and also not give a single **** what people think either. Life's improved for me hugely and it's slowly keeps getting better and everyday and I finally feel happy.

So if anybody has suicidal thoughts or ye know somebody who does dont let suicide happen. It is really impossible to believe when you are going through it, I know this from first hand experience, but things do get better and depression does pass.

It mighnt pass for those with clinical depression, but theres ways of dealing with it

Maybe_Memories · 26-11-2014 7:29pm

nadey wrote: »

It mighnt pass for those with clinical depression, but theres ways of dealing with it

Exactly - despite what some people have said it is very much an illness, and like any other illness there are ways of treating it or lessening the effect it has on you but not necessarily fully curable.

Donkey Oaty · 26-11-2014 8:00pm

Theflyingegg wrote: »

I was suicidal in my teen years had no friends, lonely, felt unless, etc but somewhere along the line my whole mentality shifted for the better and now I think nothing but positive thoughts and people tell me I have a great attitude and outlook on life now.

Nice to hear a positive account there - and this is your own business entirely, so no problem if you don't want to go into it - but do you know what it was that turned things around for you?

GLaDOS · 26-11-2014 8:09pm

nadey wrote: »

Because you obviously dont have a clue what clinical depression and GAD is like to cope with every single day

Dont be so dense

Dial down the aggression and personal remarks.

That goes for everyone

wretcheddomain · 26-11-2014 8:11pm

nadey wrote: »

What can be done about this epidemic

I'm dying to know.

my teapot is orange · 26-11-2014 8:11pm

I think it's cultural. There is too much social pressure to conform and be the same as everybody else. It's fine if you are fairly similar to the rest but must be a horrible existence if you're not. In other places, nobody will care or talk about the person who is quite different, or inquisitively want to know why. People just get on with their own lives.

I suspect you can even see this within Ireland. In rural areas where people are more homogenous, suicide rates are higher. In urban areas where there is more diversity and diversity is accepted more, they are lower.

Eramen · 26-11-2014 8:34pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I think it's cultural. There is too much social pressure to conform and be the same as everybody else. It's fine if you are fairly similar to the rest but must be a horrible existence if you're not. In other places, nobody will care or talk about the person who is quite different, or inquisitively want to know why. People just get on with their own lives.

I suspect you can even see this within Ireland. In rural areas where people are more homogenous, suicide rates are higher. In urban areas where there is more diversity and diversity is accepted more, they are lower.

So the crux of what you're saying is that we must conform to diversity? I have to confess that this makes little sense.

People in general are acceptant of almost every type of personality, and even some of the more outlandish personality issues, however they are not tolerant of people who substitute their ideology in place of their personality, as you have done. Too often people wear their politics, hence their sub-cultural 'identity' on their sleeves, and this leads to wholesale social friction as people force it into the public sphere where is seeks to demolish other people's sense of being. This 'tension' is really what you're relating to.

People must learn to stop wearing their superficial 'beliefs' and other pseudo-political moralities in place of their genuine character if we want to go anywhere as a society. Society is based on compromise and reason.. it's not based on one's own personal intellectual fantasies which others 'must' simply comply with or else they must face the wrath of your right to be offended.

The Strawman Argument · 26-11-2014 8:36pm

Most of the suicides that I've heard of back home of people over the age of 21 have been either farmers or people who had or recently closed a family business. There's a lot of pressure on the heirs to either of those lifestyles to conform to a ridiculous degree, legacy nonsense. I've old friends and relations who were aware they had no choice on the matter from a surprisingly young age. Security is viewed as being of total importance and personal happiness is close to irrelevant in the minds of a significant number of my own family and home region, at the very least.

With farming in particular, a lot of them wind up taking some kind of perverse pride in the hardship of their lifestyles too (or at least are unwilling to be openly critical about their chosen lifestyle), so bull**** about suicide being a coward's way out gets tossed about a hell of a lot.

Streetwalker · 26-11-2014 8:52pm

No proper mental health service to speak of and a highly materialistic society.

my teapot is orange · 26-11-2014 8:58pm

Eramen wrote: »

So the crux of what you're saying is that we must conform to diversity? I have to confess that this makes little sense.

People in general are acceptant of almost every type of personality, and even some of the more outlandish personality issues, however they are not tolerant of people who substitute their ideology in place of their personality, as you have done. Too often people wear their politics, hence their sub-cultural 'identity' on their sleeves, and this leads to wholesale social friction as people force it into the public sphere where is seeks to demolish other people's sense of being. This 'tension' is really what you're relating to.

People must learn to stop wearing their superficial 'beliefs' and other pseudo-political moralities in place of their genuine character if we want to go anywhere as a society. Society is based on compromise and reason.. it's not based on one's own personal intellectual fantasies which others 'must' simply comply with or else they must face the wrath of your right to be offended.

I did not say that we must "conform to diversity". I don't even know what that means. I said that it is easier for people to be themselves in an environment where there is not one uniform type.

How have I substituted my ideology for my personality? You don't know me and you can't comment on either of mine.

I don't understand the last paragraph at all. The last bit isn't a sentence.

Saipanne · 26-11-2014 8:58pm

Streetwalker wrote: »

No proper mental health service to speak of.

Unless you can afford it.

Donkey Oaty · 26-11-2014 9:01pm

Streetwalker wrote: »

No proper mental health service to speak of

There are serious improvements needed, but that analysis is a bit harsh.

TheBeardedLady · 26-11-2014 9:07pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I think it's cultural. There is too much social pressure to conform and be the same as everybody else. It's fine if you are fairly similar to the rest but must be a horrible existence if you're not. In other places, nobody will care or talk about the person who is quite different, or inquisitively want to know why. People just get on with their own lives.

I'm really curious where this is the case. Can you give an example?

tony007 · 26-11-2014 9:09pm

Ireland has one of the lowest rates of suicide in the EU.

tony007 · 26-11-2014 9:10pm

deadybai wrote: »

Because we are a backwards country in a modern world. Depression is still frowned upon in Ireland. Especially in rural villages and towns. 3 young men that I went to school with (all from the same area) committed suicide since we left school 3 years ago. There was also a few when I was in school. Its appauling that only in the last year or so that we are waking up to this.
If you are any way different, your fecked. If you dont fit in to Irish society your fecked.

We have one of the lowest rates of suicide in the EU.

26-11-2014 9:13pm

Uncle Ruckus wrote: »

I used to have a fair few conversations about our high depression/suicide rate with my friends during our college years. We proposed stuff like Catholic sexual guilt trips and the ****ty weather. I don't think the Catholic repression thing is an issue anymore so maybe it's the weather and the drink culture. We tend to use booze as a coping mechanism...

There is still a different type of repression and a huge pressure to "fit in" in Ireland although it is decreasing. It's not easy to get rid of overnight.

Huge amount of snobbery and inverse snobbery around.

Eramen · 26-11-2014 9:14pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I did not say that we must "conform to diversity". I don't even know what that means. I said that it is easier for people to be themselves in an environment where there is not one uniform type.

How have I substituted my ideology for my personality? You don't know me and you can't comment on either of mine.

I don't understand the last paragraph at all. The last bit isn't a sentence.

'Diversity', in the way you have used it, is a politically charged term which reflects an absence of common values within a society. Instead it promotes a pluralism of values (treating completely contradictory value sets as being equal) in society. You're stating that it would be best to adopt a plurality of values as a solution to the reasons for suicide.

However, some people might argue that this type of society is inferior in nature as well as being ideologically motivated. It can be seen that stable, high longevity societies tend towards a harmonic social order which is founded upon a *unity* of values, customs, and ideals. That's to say that there is an agreed way of living, and one set of rules only for determining right and wrong i.e. a culture.

This social order is harmonious because all population segments aspire to and reinforce the same principles, morality and values that all must live by. This is true equality. Look at East Asia or the near east for successful replication of this. The West has been engaged in a permanent culture war since the 1960's, and this has undermined the confidence and cultural productivity of our people. It's created a society of 'pickers and choosers', people who think that the rules don't apply to them or that they deserve some sort of entitlement over others.

Diversity simply means to do whatever a person wants without regard for the well-being of others, as "my values are different from yours, I don't have to believe what you believe in, deal with it or I will take offense'. It's a fundamentally broken vision of how the world works.

my teapot is orange · 26-11-2014 9:16pm

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I'm really curious where this is the case. Can you give an example?

Just one random example of a place I've lived - London. You could be a 25 year old male, ballet-dancing poet and who's into taxidermy, raving and writing romantic novels. People won't give a sh$t.

Donkey Oaty · 26-11-2014 9:17pm

Eramen wrote: »

'Diversity', in the way you have used it, is a politically charged term which reflects an absence of common values within a society. Instead it promotes a pluralism of values (a set of completely different values and treats them as being equal) in society. You're stating that it would be best to adopt a plurality of values as a solution to the reasons for suicide.

However, some people might argue that this type of society is inferior in nature as well as being ideologically motivated. It can be seen that stable, high longevity societies tend towards a harmonic social order which is founded upon a unity of values, customs, and ideals. That's to say that there is an agreed way of living, and one set of rules determining right and wrong i.e. a culture.

This social order is harmonious because all population segments aspire and reinforce the same principles, morality and values that all must live by. This is true equality. Look at East Asia or the near east for successful replication of this. The West has been engaged in a permanent culture war since the 1960's, and this has undermined the confidence and cultural productivity of our people. It's created a society of 'pickers and choosers', people who think that the rules don't apply to them or that they deserve some sort of entitlement over others.

Diversity simply means to do whatever a person wants without regard for the well-being of others, as "my values are different from yours, I don't have to believe what you believe in, deal with it or I will take offense'.

I do not exaggerate when I say that this is one of the worst posts I've ever read.

BetterThanThou · 26-11-2014 9:18pm

Truthfully, I've been dealing with depression and anxiety for the last 2 and a half years or so, and I can say that the mental health care system in this country is absolute crap. I was given the option of taking drugs or getting no treatment, and drugs weren't something I was willing to take, I don't think someone should be turned away treatment just because they refuse to take drugs. Luckily, the last few weeks I've found a counsellor who has been helping me a lot, but for the 2 years before that, I was left with no kind of treatment due to my unwillingness to take drugs, had it not been for my best friend, quite honestly, in those 2 years I may have potentially done something that I wouldn't live to regret, some people are left totally alone suffering through the same stuff I did(and to a much lesser extent still do.), I don't see how someone can get refused treatment because they don't want to take drugs, hell, it's part of some people's lifestyle to not take drugs like that.

Eramen · 26-11-2014 9:23pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

I do not exaggerate when I say that this is one of the worst posts I've ever read.

Please.. I think every thinking mind will see right through that. Really you disagree and couldn't be arsed with coming up with anything decent in response. Study up bro.

Live outside of the West for a long period and it's obvious what I am relating to.

DeadHand · 26-11-2014 9:31pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

You could be a 25 year old male, ballet-dancing poet and who's into taxidermy, raving and writing romantic novels. People won't give a sh$t.

You know...

I REALLY want to go for pints with that fella.

Does he exist?

JupiterKid · 26-11-2014 9:35pm

The drinking culture and general misuse/overuse of alcohol plays a huge part in our suicide rate. I recently heard a statistic that 93% of suicides in Ireland of people aged between 18 and 35 involved alcohol.

TheBeardedLady · 26-11-2014 9:35pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

Just one random example of a place I've lived - London. You could be a 25 year old male, ballet-dancing poet and who's into taxidermy, raving and writing romantic novels. People won't give a sh$t.

Well that's generally the case in more urban areas, especially areas the size of London because of the anonymity. Compare London to a rural village in England. UK's suicide rate is higher that ours btw and I can imagine or presume incidents are higher in London than elsewhere in the UK.

I don't agree with your reason, basically.

nadey · 26-11-2014 9:35pm

BetterThanThou wrote: »

Truthfully, I've been dealing with depression and anxiety for the last 2 and a half years or so, and I can say that the mental health care system in this country is absolute crap. I was given the option of taking drugs or getting no treatment, and drugs weren't something I was willing to take, I don't think someone should be turned away treatment just because they refuse to take drugs. Luckily, the last few weeks I've found a counsellor who has been helping me a lot, but for the 2 years before that, I was left with no kind of treatment due to my unwillingness to take drugs, had it not been for my best friend, quite honestly, in those 2 years I may have potentially done something that I wouldn't live to regret, some people are left totally alone suffering through the same stuff I did(and to a much lesser extent still do.), I don't see how someone can get refused treatment because they don't want to take drugs, hell, it's part of some people's lifestyle to not take drugs like that.

True, its a joke. I was basically forced on paroxetine 10 years ago and im still on the crap to this day cos the withdrawal symptoms are hellish. Some people say its worse than going cold turkey from years of being a heroin addict. Most doctors are just drug dealers in suits with the big pharma being the kingpins paying the doctors to prescribe these dirty drugs

DeadHand · 26-11-2014 9:35pm

Eramen wrote: »

'Diversity', in the way you have used it, is a politically charged term which reflects an absence of common values within a society. Instead it promotes a pluralism of values (treating completely contradictory value sets as being equal) in society. You're stating that it would be best to adopt a plurality of values as a solution to the reasons for suicide.

However, some people might argue that this type of society is inferior in nature as well as being ideologically motivated. It can be seen that stable, high longevity societies tend towards a harmonic social order which is founded upon a *unity* of values, customs, and ideals. That's to say that there is an agreed way of living, and one set of rules only for determining right and wrong i.e. a culture.

This social order is harmonious because all population segments aspire to and reinforce the same principles, morality and values that all must live by. This is true equality. Look at East Asia or the near east for successful replication of this. The West has been engaged in a permanent culture war since the 1960's, and this has undermined the confidence and cultural productivity of our people. It's created a society of 'pickers and choosers', people who think that the rules don't apply to them or that they deserve some sort of entitlement over others.

Diversity simply means to do whatever a person wants without regard for the well-being of others, as "my values are different from yours, I don't have to believe what you believe in, deal with it or I will take offense'. It's a fundamentally broken vision of how the world works.

You're not Borg by any chance, are you?

Cantremember · 26-11-2014 9:36pm

I think the OP has been well answered by a lot of people. Maybe one thing: people don't put up with stuff anymore. They want it all sorted yesterday. If there's no hope on the horizon, then what's the point and death is the emergency exit.

my teapot is orange · 26-11-2014 9:36pm

DeadHand wrote: »

You know...

I REALLY want to go for pints with that fella.

Does he exist?

I dunno. I hope so.:D

strobe · 26-11-2014 9:38pm

Eramen wrote: »

'Diversity', in the way you have used it, is a politically charged term which reflects an absence of common values within a society. Instead it promotes a pluralism of values (treating completely contradictory value sets as being equal) in society. You're stating that it would be best to adopt a plurality of values as a solution to the reasons for suicide.

However, some people might argue that this type of society is inferior in nature as well as being ideologically motivated. It can be seen that stable, high longevity societies tend towards a harmonic social order which is founded upon a *unity* of values, customs, and ideals. That's to say that there is an agreed way of living, and one set of rules only for determining right and wrong i.e. a culture.

This social order is harmonious because all population segments aspire to and reinforce the same principles, morality and values that all must live by. This is true equality. Look at East Asia or the near east for successful replication of this. The West has been engaged in a permanent culture war since the 1960's, and this has undermined the confidence and cultural productivity of our people. It's created a society of 'pickers and choosers', people who think that the rules don't apply to them or that they deserve some sort of entitlement over others.

Diversity simply means to do whatever a person wants without regard for the well-being of others, as "my values are different from yours, I don't have to believe what you believe in, deal with it or I will take offense'. It's a fundamentally broken vision of how the world works.

And those that diverge? What is to be done with them Eramen?

Donkey Oaty · 26-11-2014 9:40pm

DeadHand wrote: »

You know...

I REALLY want to go for pints with that fella.

Does he exist?

The race is on to save him. We need to reach him before Eramen does, or our entire civilisation may be at risk.

my teapot is orange · 26-11-2014 9:45pm

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Well that's generally the case in more urban areas, especially areas the size of London because of the anonymity. Compare London to a rural village in England. UK's suicide rate is higher that ours btw and I can imagine or presume incidents are higher in London than elsewhere in the UK.

I don't agree with your reason, basically.

The Office of National Statistics have the breakdown by region on their website and London is consistently one of the lowest rates in the UK from what I see on their website.

TheBeardedLady · 26-11-2014 9:46pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

The Office of National Statistics have the breakdown by region on their website and London is consistently one of the lowest rates in the UK from what I see on their website.

Are we comparing countries or cities here though?

Edit: That's interesting about London; I wouldn't have expected that.

my teapot is orange · 26-11-2014 9:50pm

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Are we comparing countries or cities here though?

Edit: That's interesting about London; I wouldn't have expected that.

I'm comparing city with rural living in Ireland and city with rural living in the UK and in both cases the rate is lower in the urban area. I'm not attempting to compare the UK with Ireland because I don't know what other factors might apply to one population and not the other.

It's just a little theory of mine, based on the feeling of freedom I felt while I was in London, not that I was ever particularly unhappy in rural Ireland, but I think it could be harder to be different. There are many advantages to Ireland too.

Penny Tration · 26-11-2014 9:52pm

To those of you who say your doctors essentially throw drugs at you - seriously, change doctors.

I completely agree that the treatment facilities for mental health issues are a shambles. I've been through them for 9 years.

However, my GP would NEVER throw tablets at me.

When I first saw her over my mental health, as a teenager, she immediately referred me to a psychiatrist, and prescribed me a low dose of meds to help me through until my appointment, because I was suicidal and there was a 4 month waiting list.

Nowadays, I know myself when I'm at a stage where I need medication. I have periods where I don't need it, but I don't kid myself. I'm bipolar, that is not going away. It's lifelong, unlike some other mental health illnesses, which can (in some cases) be cured.

Over the past few years, when I've gone through bad periods, it's gone like this -

Go to gp.

She discusses my feelings, mood, etc.

Immediate referral to a psychiatrist.

Referral for counselling, if we (both of us) think I need it.

Medication, if I'm bad enough that she and I both think we need it. If one of us doesn't think I need it, I don't get it, although she takes my opinions on board completely, because I pretty much know if I'm at a stage where I need medication.

She never, ever prescribes medication without also referring me to a psychiatrist and counsellor.

DeadHand · 26-11-2014 9:52pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

The race is on to save him. We need to reach him before Eramen does, or our entire civilisation may be at risk.

I was sent here from the future for this very purpose.

The ballet dancing, taxidermist, raving romantic novelist lad is the future leader of the human rebellion against Eramen.

Come With Me If You Want To live.

TheBeardedLady · 26-11-2014 9:53pm

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I'm comparing city with rural living in Ireland and city with rural living in the UK and in both cases the rate is lower in the urban area. I'm not attempting to compare the UK with Ireland because I don't know what other factors might apply to one population and not the other.

Ah okay. You're specifically talking about the causes of suicide in rural Ireland. Fair enough.

Eramen · 26-11-2014 9:53pm

strobe wrote: »

And those that diverge? What is to be done with them Eramen?

Most natural societies don't give people a reason to diverge. As I mentioned, it's best to look at other civilizations to gain an insight. They tend to have fewer cultural 'agitators' and have the intelligence to respect their own history, customs and traditions of the society. Namely I speak of people whom I have gotten to know hailing from India, Russia, Egypt and China.

You simply don't see them aimlessly criticizing their way of life, holidays, laws, religion, morality, language, etc as you would with a European/North American. In my experience, it's that Westerners are overly materialistic/seek a false sense of 'individuality' and are far more absorbed with their own self, than on the well-being of others.

They live for themselves, being more interested in their sexual orientation, politics, class, ideology, subcultural pursuits - and as result destroy the potential for collective progress or the elevation of common values. In short, the west is losing it's culture through proclaiming, without evidence, that 'everything is equal'.

strobe · 26-11-2014 9:55pm

Eramen wrote: »

Most natural societies don't give people a reason to diverge. As I mentioned, it's best to look at other civilizations to gain an insight. They tend to have fewer cultural 'agitators' and have the intelligence to respect their own history, customs and traditions of the society. Namely I speak of people whom I have gotten to know hailing from India, Russia, Egypt and China.

You simply don't see them aimlessly criticizing their way of life, holidays, laws, religion, morality, language, etc as you would with a European/North American. In my experience, it's that Westerners are overly materialistic/seek a false sense of 'individuality' and are far more absorbed with their own self, than on the well-being of others.

They live for themselves, being more interested in their sexual orientation, politics, class, ideological - and as result destroy the potential for collective progress or the elevation of common values.

Fewer, maybe, but they have them yes? What's to be done with them, if not acceptance? Coercion? Ostracization?

Donkey Oaty · 26-11-2014 10:01pm

strobe wrote: »

Fewer, maybe, but they have them yes? What's to be done with them, if not acceptance? Coercion? Ostracization?

Might be best not to ask.

One of his previous posts was basically an endorsement of hara-kiri.

corner of hells · 26-11-2014 10:04pm

nadey wrote: »

I agree with everything you said apart from the last paragraph, unless you have clinical depression you cant really comment. Ive had it 25 years with no real re.lief, I just had to learn to deal with it. Its tough but it can be done

nadey wrote: »

True, its a joke. I was basically forced on paroxetine 10 years ago and im still on the crap to this day cos the withdrawal symptoms are hellish. Some people say its worse than going cold turkey from years of being a heroin addict. Most doctors are just drug dealers in suits with the big pharma being the kingpins paying the doctors to prescribe these dirty drugs

How old are you now Nadey ? I think I remember you posting that you 21 about two years ago and you say you have clinical depression for 25 years , paroxetine is prescribed in a tablet form or as a liquid suspension in Ireland under the name seroxat and as far as I can remember its not prescribed for under 18s.

Eramen · 26-11-2014 10:07pm

strobe wrote: »

Fewer, maybe, but they have them yes? What's to be done with them, if not acceptance? Coercion? Ostracization?

That you have people that won't accept the general social norm isn't the issue in my opinion. They exist, always have, and always will.

The problem is that in the West they are now being catered to on an industrial scale, being organised into sub-cultures, provided for via consumerism, which effectively replaces the original host culture through the creation of their new 'identity'. This exaggerates the problem as people are 'encouraged' to work against the natural pulse and flow of their group. To be gay, to be a conservative/liberal, a professional, a metalhead, part of the working class and so on are all new identities and thus realities for people.

Don't get me wrong, these values can be good, but not when they erase the common link between the person and the rest of society. What do I mean by this? When a person starts to act in a way that is not in the best interests of society at large because they perceive to be serving the interests of 'their own group'.

The lack of common values means that people no longer recognise their common interests, and there is no common future without common interests.

DeadHand · 26-11-2014 10:12pm

Eramen wrote: »

They tend to have fewer cultural 'agitators' and have the intelligence to respect their own history, customs and traditions of the society. Namely I speak of people whom I have gotten to know hailing from India, Russia, Egypt and China.

All four of those countries have a long, bloody history of violent cultural agitation.

I wouldn't hold any of the four up as a place I'd want to live as an average person.

In at least three of them, cultural agitators tended to disappear mysteriously. Non conformists are still violently suppressed to this day in China and, to a lesser extent, Russia and Egypt. India is a deeply troubled, unequal society in which millions live in abject misery.

Is this what you recommend for the West?

Eramen · 26-11-2014 10:16pm

DeadHand wrote: »

All four of those countries have a long, bloody history of violent cultural agitation.

I wouldn't hold any of the four up as a place I'd want to live as an average person.

In at least three of them, cultural agitators tended to disappear mysteriously. Non conformists are still violently suppressed to this day in China and, to a lesser extent, Russia and Egypt. India is a deeply troubled, unequal society in which millions live in abject misery.

Is this what you recommend for the West?

Ireland is also a country with a long, bloody history of cultural agitation.

Do you really think I'd recommend what you said for the West? You're taking my posts out of context.

Great things can be achieved when a culture is unified and people abide by common values. The modern world, as history, is replete with examples. This is all I'm saying.

"A house divided cannot stand".

Penny Tration · 26-11-2014 10:17pm

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057256178/1/#post91427453

Yeah, so, I'm calling shenanigans on nadey claiming her doctor forced her onto seroxat 10 years ago, considering she's only just turned 25. Didn't realise it was possible to be diagnosed as clinically depressed with anxiety at the age of 1, either.

Go troll elsewhere.

shruikan2553 · 26-11-2014 10:23pm

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Nice to hear a positive account there - and this is your own business entirely, so no problem if you don't want to go into it - but do you know what it was that turned things around for you?

What I found worked great for me was a new start, moved to a new county for college, knew nobody there and was able to just get on with life. Going to a city from a ruralish area meant there was a lot more people with different interests to get to know. Where I was from you either liked GAA, football or you had no hobbies.

strobe · 26-11-2014 10:24pm

Eramen wrote: »

That you have people that won't accept the general social norm isn't the issue in my opinion. They exist, always have, and always will.

The problem is that in the West they are now being catered to on an industrial scale, being organised into sub-cultures, provided for via consumerism, which effectively replaces the original host culture through the creation of their new 'identity'. This exaggerates the problem as people are 'encouraged' to work against the natural pulse and flow of their group. To be gay, to be a conservative/liberal, a professional, a metalhead, part of the working class and so on are all new identities and thus realities for people.

Don't get me wrong, these values can be good, but not when they erase the common link between the person and the rest of society. What do I mean by this? When a person starts to act in a way that is not in the best interests of society at large because they perceive to be serving the interests of 'their own group'.

The lack of common values means that people no longer recognise their common interests, and there is no common future without common interests.

Do you not think there's any merit to the idea that it's 'the society/culture' that causes the problem more so by insisting on the uniformity? On the whole, rather than people saying "I'm a gay/ professional/ liberal/ metalhead! I'm different from Them!" It's 'the culture' saying "He's a gay/ professional/ liberal/ metalhead! He's different from Us?' Is the issue not the separation of people as 'others' rather than the others separating themselves?

steddyeddy · 26-11-2014 10:30pm

I think we as a people are extremely hard on ourselves. This leads to feelings of inadequacy and isolation. That's just one part of it imho.

Why does ireland have one of the highest suicide rates?

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