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The Fall (RTE1/BBC2) [** Spoilers **]

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    #692
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    but why cant she just be detective gibson, what does the fact that she is a woman have to do with anything?


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    #693
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    No need for her to be a feminist? Surely everyone should be a feminist?
    Well, I think the PC thing these to ask for these days is equality, not feminism...
    Did I say PC? ;-)


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    #694
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Well, I think the PC thing these to ask for these days is equality, not feminism...
    Did I say PC? ;-)

    Yes, but really the proper definition of feminism is, or should be, equality. Too many people equate feminism with men hating battle axes who want a world run by women. Understandable as there is a lot of them about. But that's a whole different story.


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    #695
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jezzer wrote: »
    but why cant she just be detective gibson, what does the fact that she is a woman have to do with anything?

    Because like it or not it's still the case that a woman in a job like that has to work twice as hard to prove she's capable. While I am not 100% sure on all the choices they've made for Gibson's character I don't have a problem with them trying to show that women are still held to different standards.

    And just to be clear, my problem with the scene in the hotel with the two women was how it fit into the story, or didn't fit, not the actual content of the scenes. That said it's possible it'll come back up in a later episode and may well prove to have been relevant. That guy seeming to know who they both were may have some relevance too.


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    #696
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    jezzer wrote: »
    well the part with them kissing, whilst unnecessary, was explained away as getting rid of the lawyer, but there was absolutely no need to take it any further, they included the uniformed cop as a lesbian which was fair enough but why also show gibson as having lesbian tendencies, again a step too far and i dont know why gibson cant just be a woman in a high ranking position without having to be a feminist etc, no need for it, in this day and age i would have imagined in this day and age that wouldnt have to be explained away. Also i'm sure the majority of detectives dont hop up on one another at an alarming rate, in the show this is taking away from the main plotline which this year has fallen flat

    Well it seems being bisexual has to be explained away. :pac: I suppose the fact that the killer was in the room and someone was going with her to the room reassures the viewer a bit and then when the pathologist walks away you think 'oh god she's on her own with the killer'. But I take your point about the hopping up on everyone, if it does continue it'll descend into farce.


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    #697
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    And just to be clear, my problem with the scene in the hotel with the two women was how it fit into the story, or didn't fit, not the actual content of the scenes. That said it's possible it'll come back up in a later episode and may well prove to have been relevant. That guy seeming to know who they both were may have some relevance too.
    If Gibson was being deliberately provocative there might be some legs in this angle of flaunting it in public. Something makes me think it's just a WTF though instead of a plot device.


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    #698
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    If Gibson was being deliberately provocative there might be some legs in this angle of flaunting it in public. Something makes me think it's just a WTF though instead of a plot device.

    Part of me thinks it was them trying to give Archie Panjabi something to do. Like they realised they'd hired a great actress for a bit part role and thought they better give her something to do other than slice livers up.

    To be honest I'm not sure of the point of Panjabi's character at all?


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    #699
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    If Gibson was being deliberately provocative there might be some legs in this angle of flaunting it in public. Something makes me think it's just a WTF though instead of a plot device.

    yes you could be right on both counts, possibly the lawyer who was hitting on the indian professor may come into it at some point, in reality, when we look at it, gibson is proving to be a very unprofessional police officer and is making a p*ss poor attempt at the investigation, i think in reality she would probably be long since demoted if not sacked, also the deputy chief is a corrupt alcoholic, and then there were the actual corrupt cops who are now both dead, and the detective who made a balls of the background check on spector, wouldn't exactly entice you to place your trust in the PSNI, and i thought our lot down south were bad...


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    #700
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,219 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    The interpretation of the lesbian side of things seems a bit odd. Saying that, it felt a bit set up to counter allegations the show is misogynistic.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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    #701
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jezzer wrote: »
    yes you could be right on both counts, possibly the lawyer who was hitting on the indian professor may come into it at some point, in reality, when we look at it, gibson is proving to be a very unprofessional police officer and is making a p*ss poor attempt at the investigation, i think in reality she would probably be long since demoted if not sacked, also the deputy chief is a corrupt alcoholic, and then there were the actual corrupt cops who are now both dead, and the detective who made a balls of the background check on spector, wouldn't exactly entice you to place your trust in the PSNI, and i thought our lot down south were bad...

    I don't see that anything Gibson has done in her personal life has had any impact on her investigation? If anything her investigation has been constantly hampered by the higher ups at the PSNI being more concerned with public appearance than allowing her to do her job. Even now, when it's clear that the murders and Rose's disappearance are connected they're wasting time and money investigating and keeping an eye on the husband instead of letting Stella run it as part of her own investigation.


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    #702
    CountyHurler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,657 ✭✭✭CountyHurler


    Am I the only one that finds Gillian Anderson's lethargic Thatcher-esque accent unbearable.


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    #703
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    I actually thought the more unbelievable part was Eric Cantona's appearance at her hotel. That stuff about the Munros - I can only presume they're related to the people who shot Olsen in the first series - what was the relevance of that?

    The kiss was light relief (and there's precious little humour in this show so I welcomed it) and I saw the elevator scene as a plot device to heighten the atmosphere: Paul's in her room, she's going back to her room, with someone...the gender was irrelevant.

    The angle I'd like them to notice is that Paul went as himself to counsel his victim. Would the police not be checking in with her periodically? Surely the counselling would come up.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #704
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    The angle I'd like them to notice is that Paul went as himself to counsel his victim. Would the police not be checking in with her periodically? Surely the counselling would come up.

    I was thinking about this the other day. I'm interested in why he's in the line of work he's in. Is it an attempt to atone for the wrong he's done? When he was talking to the victim in hospital he was incredibly sensitive with her, he made it clear that what happened to her wasn't her fault. Now, was that him messing with her? Does he genuinely know what he does is wrong and wanted to make her feel better? Has he got a bit of a split personality going on?

    Whatever else about the show I am intrigued to know why he does pretty much everything he does. They better give me some answers and not just have him caught or escape at the end .


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    #705
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    If anything her investigation has been constantly hampered by the higher ups at the PSNI being more concerned with public appearance than allowing her to do her job. Even now, when it's clear that the murders and Rose's disappearance are connected they're wasting time and money investigating and keeping an eye on the husband instead of letting Stella run it as part of her own investigation.
    Another thing to add to the list of annoyances...
    As she was fresh in from the Met (wasn't it) as soon as she was crippled by this local politics bollix she really should have told them where to go, and she is being portrayed as the sort that doesn't mind treading on toes.


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    #706
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Another thing to add to the list of annoyances...
    As she was fresh in from the Met (wasn't it) as soon as she was crippled by this local politics bollix she really should have told them where to go, and she is being portrayed as the sort that doesn't mind treading on toes.

    Maybe that's why they've given her and Cantona a history. Anyone else annoying her she probably would have told them where to go.


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    #707
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,219 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Despite depicting the PSNI, the logistics, CID, senior officers, etc, it feels very unPSNI ish. Not to say I know what a PSNI show might be like, but well, the police element isn't as core as it may appear, superficially. At least not to me.

    Execution aside, like a lot of TV drama, it really is a dance between two characters.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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    #708
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    I actually thought the more unbelievable part was Eric Cantona's appearance at her hotel. That stuff about the Munros - I can only presume they're related to the people who shot Olsen in the first series - what was the relevance of that?

    The kiss was light relief (and there's precious little humour in this show so I welcomed it) and I saw the elevator scene as a plot device to heighten the atmosphere: Paul's in her room, she's going back to her room, with someone...the gender was irrelevant.

    The angle I'd like them to notice is that Paul went as himself to counsel his victim. Would the police not be checking in with her periodically? Surely the counselling would come up.

    yes i thought the fact that cantona arrived at the hotel was straight out of a soap opera, also gibson and cantona spend ages in the room with spector peering out of the wardrobe and managed to escape without them seeing him, pure stupid, in terms of gibsons unprofessionalism, she seemingly got up on all the belfast cops despite the fact that she is based in a different police service in a different country, she was trying to get up on the indian professor who is also getting up on the husband of the missing woman, rose, she is also the reason rose got kidnapped as she let it out of the bag that rose was speaking to the cops, instead of keeping her head down in the plush hotel paid for by the tax payer, she is lezzing out in the bar, she also went into the falls road area where one of the girls was attacked, on her own and could have kicked up a riot, she also got up on the cop who was corrupt and got killed, she failed to follow spector when he arrived at the crime scene, have i left anything out???


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    #709
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users Posts: 12,405 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    I wonder what Mark E. Smith thinks of this series.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



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    #710
    soap1978
    Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭soap1978


    with her as a cop,no wonder they never found ufos


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    #711
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    jezzer wrote: »
    yes i thought the fact that cantona arrived at the hotel was straight out of a soap opera, also gibson and cantona spend ages in the room with spector peering out of the wardrobe and managed to escape without them seeing him, pure stupid, in terms of gibsons unprofessionalism, she seemingly got up on all the belfast cops despite the fact that she is based in a different police service in a different country, she was trying to get up on the indian professor who is also getting up on the husband of the missing woman, rose, she is also the reason rose got kidnapped as she let it out of the bag that rose was speaking to the cops, instead of keeping her head down in the plush hotel paid for by the tax payer, she is lezzing out in the bar, she also went into the falls road area where one of the girls was attacked, on her own and could have kicked up a riot, she also got up on the cop who was corrupt and got killed, she failed to follow spector when he arrived at the crime scene, have i left anything out???

    She had sex with ONE cop. She has a prior relationship with Cantona. Shock horror. Middle aged woman has had sex with 2 different people over the course of her life.


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    #712
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    Both Cantona and the other cop were married plus she almost had the indian professor in bed and thats just belfast, imagine what she gets up to back in london...


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    #713
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    I was wondering why Spector didn't steal her gun? She (quite idiotically) left it hanging on the back of her hotel room chair when she changed into her evening wear.


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    #714
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    jezzer wrote: »
    Both Cantona and the other cop were married plus she almost had the indian professor in bed and thats just belfast, imagine what she gets up to back in london...
    If Spector doesn't get a bit of that action this show can go to hell. :-)


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    #715
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    I was wondering why Spector didn't steal her gun? She (quite idiotically) left it hanging on the back of her hotel room chair when she changed into her evening wear.

    He doesn't seem to need one.


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    #716
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    i dont think spector has any interest in guns, its strangling he is into

    he seems to detest other forms of violence such as the woman whom was being beaten by her husband


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    #717
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    jezzer wrote: »
    i dont think spector has any interest in guns, its strangling he is into

    he seems to detest other forms of violence such as the woman whom was being beaten by her husband
    Mother strangled by a English squaddie too obvious? Or murdered for having a kid by a squaddie?


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    #718
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,926 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    Mother strangled by a English squaddie too obvious? Or murdered for having a kid by a squaddie?

    Maybe he murdered his own mother. I think the dad took off once his tour was over. Maybe the mother got a bit promiscuous and Paul had to do away with her. Or maybe someone else did it and he blames his mum's actions that led to it for him ending up in a home so punishes other women who behave the same way?


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    #719
    DerekDGoldfish
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭DerekDGoldfish


    bodhrandude wrote: »
    I wonder what Mark E. Smith thinks of this series.

    He is due to replace Paul as the sex symbol for the next season


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    #720
    Butterface
    Registered Users Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Butterface


    jezzer wrote: »
    Both Cantona and the other cop were married plus she almost had the indian professor in bed and thats just belfast, imagine what she gets up to back in london...

    So what if Stella is a promiscuous bisexual woman? Sleeping with co-workers may not be the most professional thing to do when stationed abroad on an important case, but it is not entirely unrealistic. I agree with CloudAtlas who mentioned earlier that the pathologist suddenly changing her mind about heading back to the room with Stella amped up the tension. I certainly felt a bit nervous for her heading to the room alone.

    If Stella's character happened to be a man sleeping around and "getting up on" a few other characters there wouldn't be a peep about it. But because she's a female character, you're bemoaning it as bad scripting.


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    #721
    jezzer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,030 ✭✭✭jezzer


    Butterface wrote: »
    So what if Stella is a promiscuous bisexual woman? Sleeping with co-workers may not be the most professional thing to do when stationed abroad on an important case, but it is not entirely unrealistic. I agree with CloudAtlas who mentioned earlier that the pathologist suddenly changing her mind about heading back to the room with Stella amped up the tension. I certainly felt a bit nervous for her heading to the room alone.

    If Stella's character happened to be a man sleeping around and "getting up on" a few other characters there wouldn't be a peep about it. But because she's a female character, you're bemoaning it as bad scripting.

    Not necessarily, i mean its not James Bond we're watching, I dont think there is any need to be involving such an out of the ordinary private life for gibson, i think it takes from the main storyline, the same way i dont think they need to be showing cantona as a corrupt wino who got up on gibson and is mad to try it again, it just takes from the main plot of the show which is spector and his killings, why cant they show the cops as decent people, why are they all having extra marital affairs and lezzing off, i mean, realistically, what pathologist contemplates lezzing off with the chief investigator of a case which involves the disappearance of the wife of a man you also happen to be hopping up on, its just silly...


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