Track bikes - general discussion

lennymc · 19-11-2014 3:41pm #1

How does track bike sizing work - is it the same as road bike or smaller, or bigger or does it depend on the type of track bike?

Beasty · 19-11-2014 4:13pm

Same certainly when using the drops. Having said that I'm currently evaluating options for a slightly smaller pursuit/TT bike (my road TT bike is one size smaller than my general road bikes already). You are basically looking at the same bike fit on the road and the track

lennymc · 19-11-2014 4:16pm

cheers beasty.

RockWerchter · 19-11-2014 6:52pm

For drop bars, my road and track bikes are 58 seat tubes with a longer reach on the track bike by 2cm. For pursuits the reach is the same as the road bike but a lot lower with a -17 degree stem. And the elbow pads are obviously at shorter reach again.

Harrybelafonte · 19-11-2014 7:43pm

I agree with Beasty on keeping to road and track. I have a 570mm TT on road with a 579mm TT on track and a 120mm on both. Pursuit stem is 90mm and some messing with the pads as I had issues fitting my pursuit bars into UCI regulations.

nak · 19-11-2014 7:54pm

Same size for me from same manufacturer.

Beasty · 19-11-2014 8:08pm

I would add that I have the drop bars on the track bike quite a lot lower than on the road bike. That's because the races are a lot shorter - rarely more than 10 mins or so for me meaning I can hold the lower position for the duration of the race, which I would never be able to do in a road race (although you can spend most of the time on the hoods on the road, and that is definitely frowned upon when track racing)

Harrybelafonte · 19-11-2014 11:41pm

Longest race is (I think) 25-30 minutes depending on how fast/slow you are.

Beasty · 20-11-2014 12:30am

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Longest race is (I think) 25-30 minutes depending on how fast/slow you are.

Think the longest I've done in the track league is 12 laps! Also did a scratch race at the European Masters that was 7.5km and just over 10 mins. Yes when you're competing at the nationals and the like there is a relatively long points race (and very long madison, but not in Ireland) but it's not something I need to worry about!

Harrybelafonte · 20-11-2014 12:39am

Beasty wrote: »

Think the longest I've done in the track league is 12 laps! Also did a scratch race at the European Masters that was 7.5km and just over 10 mins. Yes when you're competing at the nationals and the like there is a relatively long points race (and very long madison, but not in Ireland) but it's not something I need to worry about!

Maybe not, but I was presuming Lenny will be taking part in National events, hence my comment on times, rather than correcting what you were saying yourself. Points race in International GP was more laps than I can remember, 60?

Some of us are also mumbling about trying Madison at Sundrive. Nothing may come of it, but we'll see.

As for the original question, there used to be a 1 cm smaller rule for track bikes, I've been told this was to make them stiffer. This doesn't really apply anymore.

eeeee · 20-11-2014 12:57am

It would be deadly to have a madison, I have never done one. Scary but awesome!

Re sizing, my track and road bike are the same but I don't know enough about it to advise. I'd love a smaller pursuit bike to get down super low but I don't know how much of an advantage that would be.

Race length, there is a 40 lap for us 60 lap for men points race in the National Omnium this year, there are 20 lap ladies scratch races at the nationals too I think? That'd be the longest though I think.

You'll be longest in the drops for warm ups at the track sessions than racing the league.

Beasty · 20-11-2014 1:00am

Well I reckon a madison at Sundrive may help keep numbers down .....

(wouldn't want to be anywhere near one of those slingshots, never mind participate!)

eeeee · 20-11-2014 1:03am

Beasty wrote: »

Well I reckon a madison at Sundrive may help keep numbers down .....

(wouldn't want to be anywhere near one of those slingshots, never mind participate!)

Be so much fun though…maybe one Monday night session could be a mini madison. Only people who are safe get to participate!

RobFowl · 20-11-2014 1:48am

Beasty wrote: »

Well I reckon a madison at Sundrive may help keep numbers down .....

(wouldn't want to be anywhere near one of those slingshots, never mind participate!)

Have to say the pursuit to me is the purest form of cycle racing but the thought of riding a madison really excites me. Can see myself and lenny rocking that one

Harrybelafonte · 20-11-2014 7:50am

@Gadetra Lower isn't always better in pursuit. At some point the angle inhibts leg power.

I've practiced Madison there before. You'd wanna really trust your partner and considering the number of crashes this year and numbers showing up, there may not be a taste for it.

nak · 20-11-2014 10:02am

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

@Gadetra Lower isn't always better in pursuit. At some point the angle inhibts leg power.

I've practiced Madison there before. You'd wanna really trust your partner and considering the number of crashes this year and numbers showing up, there may not be a taste for it.

Especially on concrete.

Beasty · 20-11-2014 10:20am

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

@Gadetra Lower isn't always better in pursuit. At some point the angle inhibts leg power.

On aerobars it pretty much always inhibits power - I lose about 25w or so compared to the road bike (and that's reckoned not to be too bad). The point is, of course, there is a trade off with the aerodynamic benefits. The problem though is working out where the best balance is. That's not easy to establish when you only get the opportunity to do the testing outdoors where the aero part of it is going to be influenced by the weather

Harrybelafonte · 20-11-2014 10:30am

Beasty wrote: »

On aerobars it pretty much always inhibits power - I lose about 25w or so compared to the road bike (and that's reckoned not to be too bad). The point is, of course, there is a trade off with the aerodynamic benefits. The problem though is working out where the best balance is. That's not easy to establish when you only get the opportunity to do the testing outdoors where the aero part of it is going to be influenced by the weather

I believe that it's partially in the mind. It's easier to push through the pain of a pursuit when you can feel the difference your legs are making rather than thinking of how aero you are. I'm happy with a decently flat back and pushing.

We're going OT now no?

lennymc · 20-11-2014 12:14pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

We're going OT now no?

I don't mind.

Cheers for the tips y'all. Looking at a Giant Om nom nium for next year. My TT is about 535 on the road bike, so it looks like I would be looking at a small which has a TT of 535.

Beasty · 20-11-2014 12:17pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

We're going OT now no?

No harm in continuing to have a natter amongst some of the trackies and allowing the discussion to evolve a little. We're certainly not going wildly off-track;)

lennymc · 20-11-2014 12:25pm

Beasty wrote: »

We're certainly not going wildly off-track;)

I feel that I should report that pun....

So any opinions on the giant nomnium?

eeeee · 20-11-2014 12:47pm

lennymc wrote: »

I feel that I should report that pun....

So any opinions on the giant nomnium?

A couple of people have them, I have never tried one but they look nice. The people who have one really know what they're doing which is as positive an endorsement as you can get I suppose!

Ya gonna come training and race the league? More Boardsie Track people yeahie!

Harrybelafonte · 20-11-2014 2:50pm

THe Giant has a good rep and is aimed at more endurance type events. The SRAM Omnium cranks are fine and I'm sure the wheels will be grand too. It'll be bang on sytaight out of the box. I'd pick up a few chainrings and at least 14/15/16 cogs too

Harrybelafonte · 20-11-2014 3:00pm

Just saw price...sheesh! Go for Planet X

lennymc · 20-11-2014 3:11pm

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

Just saw price...sheesh! Go for Planet X

any other recomendations harry?

the nomnium comes with 13, 14, 15 and 16 as standard with a 48 up front.

Harrybelafonte · 20-11-2014 3:25pm

lennymc wrote: »

any other recomendations harry?

the nomnium comes with 13, 14, 15 and 16 as standard with a 48 up front.

Get best frame you can, second hand sugino 75s and get wheels built up yourself. Everything else will be stuff you prob have spare. Fuji, giant, cervelo, Hoy, Dolan etc. Dolan usually have sale on track frames.

Beasty · 20-11-2014 3:42pm

Currently contemplating BMC TR01 or the Felt TK1 as something solely for TTs and pursuit. Problem is sourcing a frameset, particularly in Ireland. CI use Felts though so maybe I need to try an call in a favour:) (although the sizing I would go for is about a centimetre smaller than I would and currently use on the road TT bikes)

lennymc · 20-11-2014 4:01pm

@beasty - can you change the name of the thread to general track bike discussion or something

@ gadetra - I did some track last year, but I hope to do much more track next year, as my racing time will be limited, what with the bambino and that. I plan on doing the league, and some of the national events.

I think that my strengths are with shorter events, rather than the longer events, and would like a track bike that would allow me be competitive (as much as possible with the bike) but also one that would allow me grow as my track skills develop. I did have a fuji track bike before, but unfortunately the frame cracked. It was replaced under warranty with a lovely carbon fuji jobbie that I promptly sold. LOL. I had considered the nomnium as it looks like a good all rounder, and my lbs can supply it. Budget is in or around 1000 - 1200 for the complete bike.

Any suggestions welcome!

Beasty · 20-11-2014 4:06pm

lennymc wrote: »

@beasty - can you change the name of the thread to general track bike discussion or something

Done

lennymc wrote: »

I think that my strengths are with shorter events

People coming from the road to the track generally do better in the endurance events. The "shorter" events for the track generally start at 200m. I would have thought you would be more of an endurance track cyclist than a sprinter lenny

Harrybelafonte · 20-11-2014 4:23pm

Having a sprint on the road and being a track sprinter are two very separate things, that doesn't mean someone from road is not a fast sprinter, but they're overlooking the endurance they have.

My impression is that road riders have difficulties with the longer periods of high speed that are involved in track endurance events and get worn down quicker, hence the impression that shorter races suit them better.

I've also had road riders talk to me about their watt output in a sprint and not realise it's the exact same as mine, and I'm not a sprinter. Have a look at the results from the Duane Delaney and check out some of the roadies in the Bs and Cs there who are regarded as good road sprinters and check their 200m times to those of the As to see what I mean.

I'm open to correction in all that and am sure I've stepped on some toes, but there you go.

Matt Bianco · 20-11-2014 4:25pm

For someone coming from a touring background and hoping to race on the track next year for the first time, do you have any advice of what winter training to be doing that would lay a good foundation for the open training in Sundrive in February? Any gym work that should be incorporated?

Track bikes - general discussion

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