Doctor refused to treat her depressed patient.

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 7:25pm #1

I am looking for some advice please my friend has suffered from depression for as long as I have known her over 20 years and has had the same (female) doctor in all that time. She was attacked and and has suffered panic attacks and was even on the social welfare invalidity pension for about 5 or 6 years due to cronic depression and formed a bond with this doctor BUT today the manager of the surgery refused to give her an appointment EVER not now not in the future even though her file is with the doctor and she has nowhere else to go.
The reason given was that she no longer lives in the Dublin area she is a few miles away and falls into the meath area my friend has tried to find a doctor in the meath area but can't find one she is comfortable with and is nervous to move. She pays cash and has no medical card.
I must add I have heard about this secretary/ manager before and she sounds like a real bitch.
My friend told her she needed to see a doctor and she did not feel well and she did not ask how she was feeling or give any advice she just said you are no longer in this area and you are not getting to see any of the doctors here I will put a form in the post for you to change doctor. There has been no problems at all till today no prior history etc
I don't think my friend is suicidial and I have had a good chat with her which is more than the surgery did but I do think she could do with seeing a medical doctor also she said her prescription for anti depressants is almost up.
I have gone through the usual things "why don't you just move" " find someone else if they don't want your money" but it's not working she is very very upset and is planning to make an official complaint to the medical council of Ireland as the doctor still has her file so she is still "under her care" also she feels that the surgery should have seen her and that they have an ethical responsibility if nothing else.
I don't think a dog should be treated the way my friend was what would be her best way to deal with this ?

princess-lala · 11-11-2014 7:45pm

Um my mother lives in Offaly and her doctor is in Meath......

I know lots of people who don't live in the same county as their doctor. Can she ring back and ask to speak to the doctor

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 7:47pm

princess-lala wrote: »

Um my mother lives in Offaly and her doctor is in Meath......

I know lots of people who don't live in the same county as their doctor. Can she ring back and ask to speak to the doctor

Are you sure ? Is there not some new system ?

princess-lala · 11-11-2014 7:51pm

Private patient so I don't see why.....

actually just chatting my cousin here. She also lives in Offaly and her nearest gp is 7 miles away in Westmeath so she goes there.

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 7:59pm

princess-lala wrote: »

Private patient so I don't see why.....

actually just chatting my cousin here. She also lives in Offaly and her nearest gp is 7 miles away in Westmeath so she goes there.

Ok thanks I will look into it for her as I think it could be a Dublin thing but it's a disgrace the way she was treated that's for sure.

Red Fred · 11-11-2014 8:02pm

Big Davey wrote: »

Are you sure ? Is there not some new system ?

I live in Cavan and attend a doctor in Navan. If you're a private patient, not on the medical card there should be no "catchment area" issues. Sounds like the manager is just being akward for some reason. If you would like details of my doc pm me. She is very good, compassionate but straight talking at the same time but never rushes you.

Gatling · 11-11-2014 8:04pm

There was a change involving medical card holders a while back ,
Did your friend tell her sugery she was moving county at all

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 8:04pm

Red Fred wrote: »

I live in Cavan and attend a doctor in Navan. If you're a private patient, not on the medical card there should be no "catchment area" issues. Sounds like the manager is just being akward for some reason. If you would like details of my doc pm me. She is very good, compassionate but straight talking at the same time but never rushes you.

Ok I may take you up on that and pass it on.
Thanks

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 8:06pm

Gatling wrote: »

There was a change involving medical card holders a while back ,
Did your friend tell her sugery she was moving county at all

She may have informed a change of address I am not 100% sure but I do know she has never been a medical card holder ever.

challengemaster · 11-11-2014 8:08pm

The thread title is somewhat misleading - At no point did the actual doctor refuse to treat the person.

Murray007 · 11-11-2014 8:11pm

You may not be hearing the full story.

My GP is in Cavan but as I work in Dublin during the week I usually see a doctor in Dublin. Never been an issue that my home address is Cavan.

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 8:13pm

challengemaster wrote: »

The thread title is somewhat misleading - At no point did the actual doctor refuse to treat the person.

The manager of the practice that's the girl who is in charge of the receptionists and everything else refused to take the appointment you don't get to see the doctor or even speak to the doctor unless it goes through reception she said she had the backing of the surgery as there is more than one doctor there.
Short of kicking in the door or waiting for the doctor to finish her shift and catch her going to her car I don't know what my friend could have done.
I don't think it's misleading at all.

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 8:17pm

Murray007 wrote: »

You may not be hearing the full story.

My GP is in Cavan but as I work in Dublin during the week I usually see a doctor in Dublin. Never been an issue that my home address is Cavan.

The full story is that this manager seems to be a walking cxxt and has a reputation for being pig ignorant and ackward.
BUT the main issue is should a surgery be allowed to turn away a sick patient who is under their care.
Would the IMC be interested in this ?
Is it ethical ?

ahnowbrowncow · 11-11-2014 8:20pm

Big Davey wrote: »

The manager of the practice that's the girl who is in charge of the receptionists and everything else refused to take the appointment you don't get to see the doctor or even speak to the doctor unless it goes through reception she said she had the backing of the surgery as there is more than one doctor there.
Short of kicking in the door or waiting for the doctor to finish her shift and catch her going to her car I don't know what my friend could have done.
I don't think it's misleading at all.

It is misleading, the doctor didn't refuse to treat anyone, it was the manager who wouldn't let the doctor treat her.

tenifan · 11-11-2014 8:22pm

Maybe there is a reason and your friend just won't tell you, or maybe she doesn't know. E.g. maybe she takes up a 30-45 minutes of time when the practice manager only allows 10-15 minutes.

Maybe she wasn't heeding the doctors advice. A doctor I know had an alcoholic patient who popped in once a week without fail to moan about his ailments, but she knew he was only there for a chat and he never any of the advice given to him.

I know someone who was dropped by his doctor because he complained how long he was waiting in the waiting room. He was fed up waiting, complained, had his appointment. Later on apologised for the complaint. A week later, he got a phone call to say he would no longer be seen by the doctor.

Doctors are just people too, they are trying to run a business, and to some extent they can decide who they want as patients.

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 8:23pm

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

It is misleading, the doctor didn't refuse to treat anyone, it was the manager who wouldn't let the doctor treat her.

And how exactly should my friend get to the doctor ? Please explain ?
The manager is a representative of the doctor and the surgery and carried out their orders.
How would you deal with it if it were you or your friend ?

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 8:27pm

Ok let's just for one second pretent my friend is not an alcoholic, does do what she is told, does not take up 45 minutes, is not a total liar etc etc
What then ? was it correct and fair that a sick person was refused treatment.

tenifan wrote: »

Maybe there is a reason and your friend just won't tell you, or maybe she doesn't know. E.g. maybe she takes up a 30-45 minutes of time when the practice manager only allows 10-15 minutes.

Maybe she wasn't heeding the doctors advice. A doctor I know had an alcoholic patient who popped in once a week without fail to moan about his ailments, but she knew he was only there for a chat and he never any of the advice given to him.

I know someone who was dropped by his doctor because he complained how long he was waiting in the waiting room. He was fed up waiting, complained, had his appointment. Later on apologised for the complaint. A week later, he got a phone call to say he would no longer be seen by the doctor.

Doctors are just people too, they are trying to run a business, and to some extent they can decide who they want as patients.

JuliusCaesar · 11-11-2014 8:29pm

Your friend can ask to speak directly to the doctor on the phone or leave a message asking to talk only with that specific doctor, and ask to be phone within today or next day. Then you'll know whether the message was passed on.

Alternatively a posted letter or hand-delivered letter marked 'confidential' 'addressee only' or 'private' (or all three for good measure!) will do it.

Assuming the manager is carrying out the doctor's orders, yes, she can make a complaint first to the practice, and then the IMC

Gatling · 11-11-2014 8:30pm

Big Davey wrote: »

And how exactly should my friend get to the doctor ? Please explain ?
The manager is a representative of the doctor and the surgery and carried out their orders.
How would you deal with it if it were you or your friend ?

Maybe ask the surgery direcly ,check her local hospital for a tlc doctor/s its an out of hours gp service in some hospitals

dar100 · 11-11-2014 8:32pm

Tell your friend to make a compliant to the HSE, also the doctor has a duty of care to the client, a referral must be done to an appropriate service.

I don't imagine the doctor would be happy about the secretary doing this, it also sounds like there are issues of the secretary crossing the line and maybe some confidentiality issues here, e.g what team did she discuss this with, and what aspects of your friends situation was discussed

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 8:36pm

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Your friend can ask to speak directly to the doctor on the phone or leave a message asking to talk only with that specific doctor, and ask to be phone within today or next day. Then you'll know whether the message was passed on.

Alternatively a posted letter or hand-delivered letter marked 'confidential' 'addressee only' or 'private' (or all three for good measure!) will do it.

Assuming the manager is carrying out the doctor's orders, yes, she can make a complaint first to the practice, and then the IMC

That's good advice thanks.
Now let's just say for arguments sake that the doctor turns around and says yes the manager was correct to turn you away and refuse to give you an appointment even though you are unwell and you are still under our care and your file is with us you are not living in Dublin so are no longer entitled to to come to this surgery and pay us for our services.
What then ?

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 8:39pm

dar100 wrote: »

Tell your friend to make a compliant to the HSE, also the doctor has a duty of care to the client, a referral must be done to an appropriate service.

I don't imagine the doctor would be happy about the secretary doing this, it also sounds like there are issues of the secretary crossing the line and maybe some confidentiality issues here, e.g what team did she discuss this with, and what aspects of your friends situation was discussed

What could the hse do ? Are they not only for medical card holders. Should my friend complain to HSE and medical council too ?

tenifan · 11-11-2014 8:45pm

Big Davey.. your friend was not refused treatment. If your friend had trouble breathing or a similar emergency case and landed at the doorstep of the doctor, you can bet the doctor will treat your friend. That is the extent of treatment the GP is required to provide to your friend.
There is a big difference between refusing treatment and telling someone they are no longer wanted as a patient.
So, no, your friend should not complain to the HSE or medical council. She should move on with her life and find a new GP as soon as possible.

Big Davey · 11-11-2014 9:00pm

tenifan wrote: »

Big Davey.. your friend was not refused treatment. If your friend had trouble breathing or a similar emergency case and landed at the doorstep of the doctor, you can bet the doctor will treat your friend. That is the extent of treatment the GP is required to provide to your friend.
There is a big difference between refusing treatment and telling someone they are no longer wanted as a patient.
So, no, your friend should not complain to the HSE or medical council. She should move on with her life and find a new GP as soon as possible.

Are you a doctor ?
What about the "duty of care" what about "ethical responsibilities " do you think the medical council and its rules should just be ignored ?
The manager had no idea what my friends medical condition was and never asked.
If you think it's ok to treat another human being in that way it's a sad reflection on you and your own morals.
What's next doctors going through sick people's pockets to see if they have money to pay.
My friend as far as I am aware will be taking this as far as she can as she is hurt and angry.

dar100 · 11-11-2014 10:00pm

Big Davey wrote: »

What could the hse do ? Are they not only for medical card holders. Should my friend complain to HSE and medical council too ?

Apologies, only seen she is fee paying client

neemish · 12-11-2014 1:20am

I have to say as someone in a similar position I would be devastated if this happened to me. I live on one side of the country, but still attend my GP at home as we have a good bond and she is good with mental health issues. If I could a blank "you are no longer a patient" from the manager, I'd fall apart.

Is this a case of crossed communication? Could there have been a team meeting where it was decided to cut back the patient list and the manager is following that. But meanwhile the GP would be happy enough to keep one/two people on based on particular circumstances? I would advise writing/speaking to the GP directly to clarify the situation. It seems bad form to just drop a patient for no reason after so long (unless there are details that your friend hasn't mentioned)

Murray007 · 12-11-2014 1:52am

You have to face it there is something going on here. Where the person is a private patient there is no geographical barrier. Something else is happening and if that is the case then the patient will not get the best care by pushing to get into this doctor.

I know that is hard for your friend but doctors deal with difficult people, in THEIR opinion, all the time and they do it, take the money and deal with the difficulties. If they do not want to see the patient any more then it really is in the best interest of the patient to get another doctor. A misunderstanding can destroy the doctor patient relationship and really it may be that neither side is at fault.

Big Davey · 12-11-2014 9:47am

neemish wrote: »

I have to say as someone in a similar position I would be devastated if this happened to me. I live on one side of the country, but still attend my GP at home as we have a good bond and she is good with mental health issues. If I could a blank "you are no longer a patient" from the manager, I'd fall apart.

Is this a case of crossed communication? Could there have been a team meeting where it was decided to cut back the patient list and the manager is following that. But meanwhile the GP would be happy enough to keep one/two people on based on particular circumstances? I would advise writing/speaking to the GP directly to clarify the situation. It seems bad form to just drop a patient for no reason after so long (unless there are details that your friend hasn't mentioned)

Trust me on this there is no misunderstanding or crossed communication the manager of the surgery is not a nice person from all accounts I have heard not just the friend in question. She wants rid of people who are not in the "area" and as its a growing suburb of Dublin there is no shortage of patients to fill my friends place. The doctor herself is also a particular good and understanding doctor from all accounts. But this manager wants rid of people not from the locality and refused to give my friend an appointment.

Big Davey · 12-11-2014 9:52am

Murray007 wrote: »

You have to face it there is something going on here. Where the person is a private patient there is no geographical barrier. Something else is happening and if that is the case then the patient will not get the best care by pushing to get into this doctor.

I know that is hard for your friend but doctors deal with difficult people, in THEIR opinion, all the time and they do it, take the money and deal with the difficulties. If they do not want to see the patient any more then it really is in the best interest of the patient to get another doctor. A misunderstanding can destroy the doctor patient relationship and really it may be that neither side is at fault.

Where could I get proof that there is no geographical barrier ?
There may be a personality clash between the manager and my friend I am not 100% sure but I can assure you there is no problems with the doctor herself.

JuliusCaesar · 12-11-2014 9:59am

Big Davey wrote: »

Where could I get proof that there is no geographical barrier ?

A GPs practice is a private business. They can see patients from wherever they like. The only geographical boundaries are to do with public health services.

If the problem is with the manager, talk with the doctor; if the problem is with the doctor, talk with her and try to sort it out. Only after that complain at a higher level.

This is not difficult to solve, but will take some determination.

Rubberchikken · 12-11-2014 10:05am

i agree you may not be getting the full story.
it might be best for your friend to shop around for another doctor. i know that some doctors do get fed up (for want of a better word) treating certain patients who may call and take up unmerciful lengths of time about problems that are probably never going to be resolved.

i'm not saying your friend is like this and if she needs a doctor then the person on the desk should be more humane but sadly some places have reached a level where the length of an appointment time/number of patients a day ratio is far more important than a patient's welfare.

good luck to your friend

Big Davey · 12-11-2014 10:14am

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

A GPs practice is a private business. They can see patients from wherever they like. The only geographical boundaries are to do with public health services.

If the problem is with the manager, talk with the doctor; if the problem is with the doctor, talk with her and try to sort it out. Only after that complain at a higher level.

This is not difficult to solve, but will take some determination.

Ok I accept that it is a private business and they can see who they want or don't want but being a doctor is a little different than being say a plumber there should be ethics involved and general decency especially when dealing with someone with a long term illness like the depression my friend has.
An explanation and not an excuse like geographic reasons in my opinion should be given also either an acceptance by the surgery that they are either backing up the manager and agree that she was correct in REFUSING to give my friend an appointment at all OR explaining that maybe the manager was out of line and did not act ethically or respect the surgeries duty of care and maybe get the manager to apologise to friend for the manner in which she treated her and the distress she caused. They might be some solutions in my opinion.

smcgiff · 12-11-2014 10:26am

Big Davey wrote: »

... I can assure you there is no problems with the doctor herself.

But you can't. Unless you are the patient. I'm not trying to be insensitive, but you're hearing this second hand. What's the old saying there's three side's to every story. Yours, theirs and the true story.

I would suspect this is NOT a solo run by the practice manager, and is down to appointment/time taken management.

Is your friend looking for counselling services that the practice is not designed to provide?

Big Davey · 12-11-2014 10:33am

smcgiff wrote: »

But you can't. Unless you are the patient. I'm not trying to be insensitive, but you're hearing this second hand. What's the old saying there's three side's to every story. Yours, theirs and the true story.

I would suspect this is NOT a solo run by the practice manager, and is down to appointment/time taken management.

Is your friend looking for counselling services that the practice is not designed to provide?

The surgery provides counselling and my friend frequently attends the manager is also aware of this.
Ok I accept I was not there and don't know the ins and outs fully but let's say just for a moment that my friend is telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth and was treated the way I have described if it really happened as I have described here what then ? Is it correct or fair ?

smcgiff · 12-11-2014 10:41am

Big Davey wrote: »

Is it correct or fair ?

It's possible the doctor is at the limits of her ability to deal effectively with your friend, but of course they should have referred your friend onwards. Although, that would be potentially very expensive.

If they have given no reason and are simply ignoring your friend and giving a spurious excuse then that is not fair. It's the easy way out.

The question is what's now best for your friend? Is it to attempt to force access to a reluctant (I'm assuming this is not a solo run by the PM) doctor. Or should you try to facilitate her going to another, closer doctor where her case notes can be forwarded.

I'm not all too sure it's a healthy thing for her to be so reliant on one particular doctor.

LegacyUser · 12-11-2014 11:05am

I left a practice over similar issues with the practice manager. She behaved like the Guardian of the Gate - you simply could not speak to, leave a message for, or make an appointment with the doctor and she was rude, unhelpful, unemphatic and difficult to deal with on the phone.

The doctor in question "seemed" lovely. But you know what? It was a private practice, the manager was employed by the doctor - so her behaviour was authorised. Id made numerous comments and complaints over the years. Eventually, 2 hours after the doctor prescribed meds that caused my husband to become extremely ill and the practice manager refused to entertain me on the phone, we ended up in A&E, I voted with my feet and simply left the practice. I didnt even bother to complain afterwards, whats the point? It was a top down problem and had been ongoing for years. I also told plenty of people the reason why I left and it turned out that many of them had similar issues with the practice and moved on also.

Big Davey · 12-11-2014 11:10am

The concern is with regards to medication mainly if a new doctor has a different opinion with regards to depression they can cut down or stop medication which can be a problem as her current doctor is of the opinion that a mix of counselling and medication is what works and it suits my friend. It's not unheard of that doctors tell people go for a walk or meet your friends for coffee etc and you will feel better. Not every doctor has the same opinion with regards to clinical depression hence the high suicide rate in this country in my opinion.

QUOTE=smcgiff;93002647]It's possible the doctor is at the limits of her aitthe lity to deal effectively with your friend, but of course they should have referred your friend onwards. Although, that would be potentially very expensive.

If they have given no reason and are simply ignoring your friend and giving a spurious excuse then that is not fair. It's the easy way out.

The question is what's now best for your friend? Is it to attempt to force access to a reluctant (I'm assuming this is not a solo run by the PM) doctor. Or should you try to facilitate her going to another, closer doctor where her case notes can be forwarded.

I'm not all too sure it's a healthy thing for her to be so reliant on one particular doctor.[/QUOTE]

smcgiff · 12-11-2014 11:13am

Big Davey wrote: »

The concern is with regards to medication mainly if a new doctor has a different opinion with regards to depression they can cut down or stop medication which can be a problem as her current doctor is of the opinion that a mix of counselling and medication is what works and it suits my friend.

If that works for her then she needs to find (opinion shop sounds wrong) a doctor that agrees with her.

Graces7 · 14-11-2014 4:30pm

Big Dave; bless you for your caring. May I share with you two experiences with admin staff at practices recently?

In one case reception staff actually countermanded my GPs instructions to the extent of refusing to give out an urgent prescription to the person collecting it for me; saying I had to attend the surgery when the dr had spoken with me on the phone and issued the meds as I was not up to the long drive. I am over 70 and disabled.
I wrote to the GP marking the envelope PERSONAL CONFIDENTIAL and she had had no idea of the actions of her staff. Told me they were not clinically trained! And made elaborate arrangements as to how I could access her direct without going through reception.

The other instance was similar. Clerical staff acting without the knowledge or permission of the doctor and in both instances causing suffering and in one case danger.

I spent most of my life in the UK and we were all used to the dragon receptionists there who guarded the drs from their patients.

It seems that the two parts, clinical and admin have separated out and in both cases for me the dr had no idea of and had certainly not authorised the actions of her staff. And she made no attempt to face up to her staff.It sounds like this in your friends case and I would strongly urge a letter, non confrontational. marked CONFIDENTIAL and PERSONAL to the GP concerned as your friend deserves and needs an explanation here.

According to the Patients Charter....

It sounds as if the manager acted beyond her remit and now will not admit that. The dr can change that. As others have said, the reason given ie a change of address, is not valid.

I would try that before going down the complaint lane. For the peace of mind of your friend. If nothing else it would help get her mind at ease re medication needs which matters greatly.

I say that re the complaint lane as I finally had to go that route myself and was dropped by the GP for doing so.
The complaint was upheld and an apology received; this was a dr in the same practice not my GP I have a medical card by the way. I tried several other practices to be refused and then HSE allocated me, to find GP giving reasons for not accepting me. I at present have 5 medical cards in my bag and am not totally sure who I am allegedly with.
It was not that I make excessive demands etc as I rarely see my GP . I have only one regular prescription need and will run out of that shortly.
And I am too old and too unwell to deal with any more hassle now. I really am!
Just not worrying any more and I have family who will help with meds if need be.

Thankful your friend has you to care. Try that letter though

locum-motion · 14-11-2014 9:13pm

Graces7 wrote: »

... I at present have 5 medical cards in my bag and am not totally sure who I am allegedly with...

Graces7,

Follow this link:

https://www.sspcrs.ie/portal/checker/pub/check

Type in the number(s) from your cards.

It will tell you which number(s) is/are a valid Medical Card number, when it will expire, the holder's date of birth, and which Dr the card is assigned to. The doctor is listed as a 5-digit number, not a name, but on the cards themselves the names and numbers are both listed so you can see which number refers to which doctor.

I would recommend that you destroy by cutting up any cards that you discover are invalid through this process - that way you can't actually hand an invalid card to a doctor/dentist/hospital/pharmacist by accident.

Also, if any number you have comes up as being valid, but the date of birth isn't yours, then contact the HSE because something's gone wrong somewhere.

Graces7 · 15-11-2014 8:30am

locum-motion wrote: »

Graces7,

Follow this link:

https://www.sspcrs.ie/portal/checker/pub/check

Type in the number(s) from your cards.

It will tell you which number(s) is/are a valid Medical Card number, when it will expire, the holder's date of birth, and which Dr the card is assigned to. The doctor is listed as a 5-digit number, not a name, but on the cards themselves the names and numbers are both listed so you can see which number refers to which doctor.

I would recommend that you destroy by cutting up any cards that you discover are invalid through this process - that way you can't actually hand an invalid card to a doctor/dentist/hospital/pharmacist by accident.

Also, if any number you have comes up as being valid, but the date of birth isn't yours, then contact the HSE because something's gone wrong somewhere.

Thank you for this but just now I have no plans to go near any doctor! I am very unwell and very tired of being pushed around and if, heaven forbid, I have a fall and need to got to A and E, I plan to simply hand them the clutch of cards and suggest they sort it out... My main data of PPSN etc remain unchanged. Actually A and E at the hospital I have been to know me after two emergencies this year and never ask for my card and the pharmacy I use know me also.

Big Davey · 15-11-2014 8:00pm

God love you it seems you have got the brunt of this "medical Mafia" I hear people talking about and it is really unacceptable. The dragon receptionists seem to be merciless and it makes me wonder were this people ever sick or just not up to fighting their way to see a doctor that is getting paid to do a job ? They are nothing short of bullies and let's face it if you are asking to see a doctor you are probably not feeling great and then you have to contend with these people.

Graces7 wrote: »

Big Dave; bless you for your caring. May I share with you two experiences with admin staff at practices recently?

In one case reception staff actually countermanded my GPs instructions to the extent of refusing to give out an urgent prescription to the person collecting it for me; saying I had to attend the surgery when the dr had spoken with me on the phone and issued the meds as I was not up to the long drive. I am over 70 and disabled.
I wrote to the GP marking the envelope PERSONAL CONFIDENTIAL and she had had no idea of the actions of her staff. Told me they were not clinically trained! And made elaborate arrangements as to how I could access her direct without going through reception.

The other instance was similar. Clerical staff acting without the knowledge or permission of the doctor and in both instances causing suffering and in one case danger.

I spent most of my life in the UK and we were all used to the dragon receptionists there who guarded the drs from their patients.

It seems that the two parts, clinical and admin have separated out and in both cases for me the dr had no idea of and had certainly not authorised the actions of her staff. And she made no attempt to face up to her staff.It sounds like this in your friends case and I would strongly urge a letter, non confrontational. marked CONFIDENTIAL and PERSONAL to the GP concerned as your friend deserves and needs an explanation here.

According to the Patients Charter....

It sounds as if the manager acted beyond her remit and now will not admit that. The dr can change that. As others have said, the reason given ie a change of address, is not valid.

I would try that before going down the complaint lane. For the peace of mind of your friend. If nothing else it would help get her mind at ease re medication needs which matters greatly.

I say that re the complaint lane as I finally had to go that route myself and was dropped by the GP for doing so.
The complaint was upheld and an apology received; this was a dr in the same practice not my GP I have a medical card by the way. I tried several other practices to be refused and then HSE allocated me, to find GP giving reasons for not accepting me. I at present have 5 medical cards in my bag and am not totally sure who I am allegedly with.
It was not that I make excessive demands etc as I rarely see my GP . I have only one regular prescription need and will run out of that shortly.
And I am too old and too unwell to deal with any more hassle now. I really am!
Just not worrying any more and I have family who will help with meds if need be.

Thankful your friend has you to care. Try that letter though

Graces7 · 16-11-2014 9:00am

Big Davey wrote: »

God love you it seems you have got the brunt of this "medical Mafia" I hear people talking about and it is really unacceptable. The dragon receptionists seem to be merciless and it makes me wonder were this people ever sick or just not up to fighting their way to see a doctor that is getting paid to do a job ? They are nothing short of bullies and let's face it if you are asking to see a doctor you are probably not feeling great and then you have to contend with these people.

Thanks.. I made a decision to stop involving now. Better things to do at my age....Just written to the GP I think I am registered with asking for a repeat prescription and referring him to my family overseas who have my Power of attorney and will make short work of him.;) I have little interest in involving and A and E were great to me when I had the fall etc.

I have to say though that this has only been an issue since I moved to Kerry. Elsewhere in Ireland I have had great GPs who respected my needs and limitations. One was a good friend to me the time I was there. So this is not me...I do also have the Chief Executive for primary care on email..

It is though all about communication; HSE have a great web site and complaint system; look at their web site.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/yourhealthservice/feedback/Complaints/HowTo/

And try that letter first as probably the dr has no idea what is going on. A the problem is depression it may well be prejudice on the part of the manager. I have ME and to many it does not exist so I get rubbished for this. I dont care any more but sympathise deeply with you on this.

Graces7 · 16-11-2014 5:42pm

Davey, I am so grateful to you for this thread as it has helped me to come to terms with what has happened to me. THANK YOU...It seems that lay managers have taken on far too much and are involving in what should be between doctor and patient. It did surprise me how many here assumed there was more to this and that the dr maybe was justified. In my case I did nothing wrong.

I took advice carefully from expert sources; my complaint was not about a clinical matter but a piece of grossly unprofessional and inappropriate behaviour by a young dr on an emergency visit that could have had very far reaching bad effects on my life I did not even know her name or that she was in the same practice as my GP.
The complaint was upheld and an apology made and accepted by which time I had been dropped by my GP with no reason given which is against rules.

What is worse is that when I tried to register elsewhere there were huge problems. Word had clearly spread...

The letter shocked me and I was ill abed at the time. HSE give ten days for you to register elsewhere, then they allocate you to a dr. I tried but had no choice and could not take any more refusals from practices. So I let it ride.

The first allocation they made was to a dr 40 miles away who refused because of that. NB I am at least 15 miles from any town anyways!

Then HE in their office in Dublin, allocated me to the GP I had made the complaint about ie the practice who had dropped me.

Each time a medical card arrived and the warning I must attend that dr for at least 6 months.

Then an allocation to a dr who was verbally abusive; I had already tried to register with him you see. HSE stopped communicating at that stage and I had had enough so it i this GP I am seeking a repeat prescription from and there is no way I am going there in person.. Just is all too much and if need be I will find a way to get the meds I need It is all far too stressful else.

I have no idea if he has accepted me or not and am in no doubt that when the 6 months is up I will again be on the carousel. I used to wonder why people went to A and E with things a GP should be dealing with....

How is your friend? I have distant very supportive family thankfully..

It has all been an education and a far cry from the drs I knew even in recent years in Ireland. Disappointing.

Big Davey · 16-11-2014 9:56pm

I understand my friend has made a written complaint to the doctor so we will see how it goes. Will keep all updated.

Graces7 wrote: »

Davey, I am so grateful to you for this thread as it has helped me to come to terms with what has happened to me. THANK YOU...It seems that lay managers have taken on far too much and are involving in what should be between doctor and patient. It did surprise me how many here assumed there was more to this and that the dr maybe was justified. In my case I did nothing wrong.

I took advice carefully from expert sources; my complaint was not about a clinical matter but a piece of grossly unprofessional and inappropriate behaviour by a young dr on an emergency visit that could have had very far reaching bad effects on my life I did not even know her name or that she was in the same practice as my GP.
The complaint was upheld and an apology made and accepted by which time I had been dropped by my GP with no reason given which is against rules.

What is worse is that when I tried to register elsewhere there were huge problems. Word had clearly spread...

The letter shocked me and I was ill abed at the time. HSE give ten days for you to register elsewhere, then they allocate you to a dr. I tried but had no choice and could not take any more refusals from practices. So I let it ride.

The first allocation they made was to a dr 40 miles away who refused because of that. NB I am at least 15 miles from any town anyways!

Then HE in their office in Dublin, allocated me to the GP I had made the complaint about ie the practice who had dropped me.

Each time a medical card arrived and the warning I must attend that dr for at least 6 months.

Then an allocation to a dr who was verbally abusive; I had already tried to register with him you see. HSE stopped communicating at that stage and I had had enough so it i this GP I am seeking a repeat prescription from and there is no way I am going there in person.. Just is all too much and if need be I will find a way to get the meds I need It is all far too stressful else.

I have no idea if he has accepted me or not and am in no doubt that when the 6 months is up I will again be on the carousel. I used to wonder why people went to A and E with things a GP should be dealing with....

How is your friend? I have distant very supportive family thankfully..

It has all been an education and a far cry from the drs I knew even in recent years in Ireland. Disappointing.

Graces7 · 17-11-2014 6:59am

Big Davey wrote: »

I understand my friend has made a written complaint to the doctor so we will see how it goes. Will keep all updated.

Grand. Thank you.

Gongoozler · 18-11-2014 2:56pm

The medical council is for making a complaint about a doctors behaviour or fitness to practise, not for disputes with admin staff. They won't even entertain it if you go to them with it.

According to the guide of professional conduct, it is the doctors duty to care for a patient that they already have, and if they can't treat them for any reason, they must take care of them until they find somewhere else to go, or are referred to another doctor. Keep in mind this is a guide, not a rule book.

Your friend would be best served by getting over her issue with going to a new doctor, if she doesn't get a response from the doctor. Tell her that if she is going to move doctors, she is entitled to her medical records under the Data Protection Act, and they should be forwarded to her or her new doctor, as requested.

The reality is that doctors can choose their patients, though usually before they take them on. It seems possible this is coming from the doctor, in which case, if you have proof, you should make a complaint to the MC. However, you should be aware that the purpose of making a complaint to the MC is not to get the doctor do what you want, they'll simply look into whether or not the doctor did something wrong. So ultimately, she's really just better off to get a new doctor.

SoSheSaid · 18-11-2014 7:01pm

Something doesn't add up here and maybe the letter would be a good last shot, but I think the best course of action for her sake is to find a new GP. I completely understand how daunting it is to even consider sharing your issues with someone new, and it's really unfair that she has to do this, but I think it'll be easier than dragging out the situation at hand which will just cause her more anxiety. The sooner she moves on and gets sorted with someone new, the sooner she'll feel better about things.

Graces7 · 19-11-2014 6:55am

SoSheSaid wrote: »

Something doesn't add up here and maybe the letter would be a good last shot, but I think the best course of action for her sake is to find a new GP. I completely understand how daunting it is to even consider sharing your issues with someone new, and it's really unfair that she has to do this, but I think it'll be easier than dragging out the situation at hand which will just cause her more anxiety. The sooner she moves on and gets sorted with someone new, the sooner she'll feel better about things.

Easier said than done as I am finding, to find a new doctor. I have given up as am too unwell to cope now.

SoSheSaid · 19-11-2014 11:07am

Graces7 wrote: »

Easier said than done as I am finding, to find a new doctor. I have given up as am too unwell to cope now.

I've done it. So it's do-able.

Are you based in Dublin? I'd be happy to pm you my Drs details if it would help, he's based in D2 and is very good. He's a straight talker and doesn't attempt to molly coddle you, but is very understanding.

Graces7 · 19-11-2014 2:16pm

SoSheSaid wrote: »

I've done it. So it's do-able.

Are you based in Dublin? I'd be happy to pm you my Drs details if it would help, he's based in D2 and is very good. He's a straight talker and doesn't attempt to molly coddle you, but is very understanding.

No if you mean me here , am way down in Kerry and have been refused by drs now. I have no faith in them to start with ..I have M.E and few even believe it exists. I hope this lady fares better.

Doctor refused to treat her depressed patient.

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