yourtel - Landline Phone Service

rameire wrote: »

verbal contracts are used over the phone all the time, especially by phone companies,
they will of course have a recording of you accepting the new contract

Never heard of it until Yourtel and no matter who uses it, it is still outrageous that it is legal because you might be foolishly talked into agreeing to something on the spot without thinking it through. Like signing up to Yourtel, under the impression it is Eircom. I'm sure if the contract was posted and people saw all the facts in writing and no Eircom logo they would't have verbally signed a contract.

Not much use when its over a month later and your first bill comes and you have no idea what the hell it is.

My father received a bill from Yourtel yesterday. He doesn't remember signing up with them but has a vague recollection of a conversation with someone who he thought was from Eircom. He didn't read the letter he got from Yourtel as he thought it was junk so must have inadvertently signed up with them. He is in his 80s and a little deaf is he now stuck with them. They called him, he didn't call them.

Yeah my Mother is getting bills and debt collectors letters from them.
She doesn't remember if she signed for it or not, she's an 83yo widow and was alone when they knocked at her door.
She does remember telling them that nothing could go ahead without her sons approval, I never gave them my approval.
I sure that all they need is the signature and they're in the clear.

Anyway I told her to instruct them to call me whenever they phone her, they never have and I have completely ignored all the threatening letters.
I couldn't care less about them. A company that can send a pushy salesman to an 83 year old persons house and knowingly mislead her or disregard her instructions can just f**k right off. This crap sickens me, they are not worth communicating with.

Had a few more calls from Yourtel over the last few days.

The first three times the line went dead when I answered it (I'd looked up the number after the 2nd call so knew who it was) but on the 4th time when my elderly Father answered strangely enough there was some one on the other end.

The phone was passed to me and I told the guy on the other end not to call again or I would be complaining to Comreg.

Another call again this morning (though no one actually answered the phone) so the complaint has been sent.

My elder parents have been signed up to Yourtel which out realizing what happened! A guy who said his name was Micheal from Greece rang my deaf elderly Mum who has a hearing aid but its not much use, and what ever he told her she said she would have to get her daughter, me, to speak with him. A female pre-recorded questionnaire was then activated and my Mum thought she was speaking to a woman and told her that she didn't understand what Micheal had told her! Mum still thinks she was speaking to a woman! My poor mother! A bill has arrived - I rang and asked where they got the bank account details etc and they told me my mother gave it to them, which she didn't, so how the hell did they get this info??? THe guy got v rude on the phone with me. I rang comreg to lodge compalint & they told me to formally write to Yourtel with my complaint which I have but I have had no reponse yet! My Dad has spoken to the bank to make sure no payment is made!
Im furious!!! THis company is preying on the elderly and it should be a criminal offense!!!
Help anyone please???

Sully wrote: »

Anybody ever heard of a company called 'yourtel' based in Dublin? They called us today, knew our name but not who we were with for the phone service. Offered us a 'discount that was available to all eircom customers' of call rates 2.9c per min excluding line rental.

The chap on the phone, not Irish, was very clever with his wording and made it sound like this was a special offer they were giving to me on behalf of eircom. When I asked where they working with or on behalf of eircom, they said no. I then asked would it be me switching service provider and he said, very clever way of answering, that we are 'not completely switching from eircom' that our line and telephone number remains. I just said we were in contract and they said no problem, have a good day etc.

To a lot of people, they may fall for this and switch to this 'provider' resulting in possible loss of service or cancellation fees. Its made out on the phone that its a special discount and not someone trying to switch providers. Could catch a lot of people out about that.

EDIT: Spoke to COMREG. A case on this is already open and an investigation is under way. They took my details to add to the case.

Hi guys

I have some experience of dealing with this company. This post may be a bit long winded and sorry for that, but I list out the options available – probably best to contact Comreg/Consumer Agency also. The behaviour of this company is despicable, preying on older, vulnerable people in the main.

First of all, yourtel get the numbers to call either off the phonebook, or most likely the National Directory Database (NDD). The NDD lists over 2 million numbers .

Who manages the NDD? Well, you guessed it, Eircom.
Searching for National Directory Database Ireland in your web browser will give you loads of info about it.
There is Comreg report there which states that Eircom’s total revenue derived from the operation of the NDD was €114,000 for 2013.

So Eircom make money from selling on the NDD phone number list to telemarketers - phone, energy companies etc– similar to what Uisce Eireann/Irish water propose to do with your info if you do not tick the ‘sharing info’ box on the application form.

It’s a win-win for Eircom, they sell on your details to the likes of yourtel, and then when you realise you have been sold a pup by yourtel (as in reality having a contract with yourtel and still paying Eircom landline rental means it is more expensive for the vast vast majority of people), and go back to Eircom, well then Eircom lock you into a new 12 month phone contract

In accordance with Data Protection legislation, consumers have a right to opt out of receiving unsolicited/telemarketing calls from third parties.

All telemarketing firms or companies conducting telemarketing campaigns are now legally obliged to consult the National Directory Database (NDD) opt-out list before they commence a campaign, to make sure they do not call anyone who has opted out of third party contact. So the first step you need to do is to opt out of the NDD.

If you are an eircom customer you can opt-out of unsolicited calls by contacting Eircom on 1901 and tell them you want to opt-out of unsolicited calls - have account number ready. If you are a customer of another telephone company, then contact that company first.

Possibly best to follow up with an e-mail/letter after the phone call, so as to ensure you have the instruction in writing.
Within 28 days of opting out, no direct marketing/cold calling from third parties should occur.

The default position regarding ex-directory customers is that they are automatically opted out of unsolicited calling or cold calling. All mobile phone numbers are also automatically opted out – which is why you never get unsolicited calls on your mobile.

Now, if you or parents/relatives have unwittingly signed up, then the first thing you should do is ask yourtel for a record of the phone conversation to show where the person willingly signed up. They are obliged to a voice transcript of the call under the Data Protection Act. With words to this effect, request them ‘under the Data Protection Act 1988 and 2003, we are requesting you to provide me with a record of all calls that were recorded, between Mr/Mrs Smith and yourtel, based on telephone number xxx xxxxxxxx’. If you, yourself, subsequentially have had phone conversations with them at this number or another number to cancel the account etc, e.g. via mobile, then include your name and the relevant phone number, and include that in the request. Ensure that it is stated in the letter that you have express permission to act on behalf of the phone owner and both co-sign the letter. They have to provide a record of the entire calls then, and not just the section where the person is answering ‘Yes’ to a series of questions for signing them up to yourtel, as they are being very sneaky, and pretending that they are from Eircom at the start of the telephone conversation.

Ring Comreg for further advice if you are not clear on above.

Once you get the phone recording, listen to it, and see if the person has genuinely signed up, or if yourtel has misled the customer, and hence the contract can be voided. Comreg may also be able to provide guidance on this if you send the voice recording to them. If they don’t provide the voice recording, then you can raise the issue with the Data Protection Commissioner.

Now, along with this, or if customer has signed up willingly, then there is another potential loophole to get out of contract. Their initial contract letter which they issue, states that you have 7 days to cancel from the date of placing the order, i.e. the date of the initial phone call.

This is incorrect, as the European Directive on consumer rights has been changed in June 2014, and it has been incorporated into law in Ireland from the 13-June-2014 and applies to any contracts after that date. Under this, there is a right to a 14 day cooling off period.
I quote from the directive (S.I. No. 484/2013 - European Union (Consumer Information, Cancellation and Other Rights) Regulations 2013).
(If you signed up to a contract before 13-June-2014, then check with National Consumer Agency/Comreg whether it was 7 or 14 days cancellation period. After 13-June-2014, it is definitely 14 days.)

Omission of information on right to cancel - (as they have not given the correct info on right to cancel period)

16. (1) If the trader does not provide the consumer with the information on the right to cancel the contract required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2, the cancellation period expires 12 months from the day on which it would have expired under Regulation 15.

(2) If the trader provides the consumer with the information on the right to cancel required by paragraph (l) of Schedule 2 within 12 months of the day on which the cancellation period would have expired under Regulation 15, the cancellation period expires 14 days after the day on which the consumer receives that information.

(3) The information on the right to cancel referred to in paragraphs (1) and (2) shall be provided in accordance with—
(a) Regulation 7 in the case of off-premises contracts,
(b) Regulation 8 in the case of off-premises contracts for repairs or maintenance within the scope of that Regulation, and
(c) Regulation 10 in the case of distance contracts.

So if they did not provide correct info on right to cancel, you have 12 months from the date it would have expired normally, or if they issue you with the revised cancellation period, you have 14 days from when you receive the corrected information.

Exercise of right to cancel
17. (1) To exercise the right to cancel under Regulation 14, the consumer shall, before the expiry of the cancellation period, inform the trader of his or her decision to cancel the contract.
(2) To inform the trader under paragraph (1) the consumer may—
(a) use the model cancellation form in part B of Schedule 3, or
(b) make any other unequivocal statement setting out his or her decision to cancel the contract.

Hence by section 17 (2(b)), by telling them on the phone that the contract is cancelled is an acceptable means of cancelling the contract. Either keep a voice recording of this phone call and/or back it up in writing. Their statement that the cancellation needs to be in writing is not true within the interpretation of the directive.

Anyway best of luck for anyone caught by them.

My 65 year old mother got caught out last June by this nasty shower. She didnt realise her mistake until she received two bills, one from yourtel and one from Eircom. Now nearly six months on, after receiving endless bills and threats of getting a debt collection agency on board, yourtel keep on harassing her at least once a week looking for money - either by phone calls from asian tele-sales people or by letters in the post.

It's came to the stage where she dreads to see the postman coming or the phone ringing. A good law-abiding citizen all her life, she gets stressed quite easily and since she mistakenly took that that phonecall last june, her quality of life has deteriorated dramatically with worry of what this <SNIP> shower of f@#kers are going to do next. My advice - to completely ignore all bills and phonecalls.

We have reported this case also to Comreg and followed their instructions of sending a complaint letter via registered post to Yourtel and wait 10 days for their response. Although it took 15 days for yourtel to respond, they did send a letter back stating that "a binding legal contract can be documented without a legal document or signature" and basically they need their money.

One thing I find interesting about this company is that their 'Harcourt St' address (as well as everything else about them) is a complete <SNIP>. The letter she received back from yourtel came from PO box 12570, Glenageary, Co. Dublin. I ran a company check on yourtel and both directorship addresses are in Berlin.

And here is where it gets to tipping point - the eircom account (and yourtel account) isnt in my mothers name. Its in my fathers name and he hasnt a clue that any of this is going on. In our complaint letter to Yourtel, I stated that at no point did the mother sign away anything verbally, although last June, the pleasant-speaking and clever (Irish) salesperson led her into thinking she was moving away from Eircom with all these great rates. I also beg to question; if a company want to switch the customer over to their services, shouldnt they ask for the account holders permission? in this case, my father is the sole name on the account but yet yourtel can just make a micky-mouse 'VERBAL CONTRACT' from the first person they can hold conversation with on the phone.
<SNIP>

hi,

the outbound call centre - its in berlin (but told to say dublin 'its better for the customer to feel safe')- staffed by backpackers/travellers in berlin etc. the management doesn't only cares about 'sign ups' and fires the staff if they don't sign people up. half the call workers are not even say they are from yourtel but just ask if the 'customer' is with eircom and then uses tricky language to ensure that the 'customer' doesn't understand who is calling. so its made to sound just like you are getting a switch over to a 'cheaper rate', and are encourage to say stuff like 'nothing changes but the rate, cheap rate' blubalbhalbh but unless you ask they don't all say where they call from. it is also unclear who is eligable for the yourtel but it is not asked what plan the customer is originally on. also if 'customer' asks are you selling something the answer is not no or is it yes. it is sales sales sales and people need to be careful what they are agree to.

the management encourages this, or at least doesn't stop it or do any kind of control over it, they turn blind eye at best. they only care for the numbers of sign up.

i recommend for people in ireland to be aware that this is happening and to warn elder people of not to agree to anything over the phone. by the sounds of it they make it hard to switch away from yourtel even though they insist that it is 'no contract' and so on. i'm unsure of legal of having a voice recorded contract, but it doesn't sound right to me.

also to get them to stop calling you need to listen to their spiel and then say 'no i'm not interested' after they have 'presented' their rates . or tell them you are not with eircom. if you just say you are not there, or can't talk they will keep calling you back. they only will cancel you after you have listened to the whole thing and said no.

MariaV wrote: »

My parents have been caught out with this - Yourtel sent a piece of a conversation between the telemarketer and my father where he had my dad agreeing to everything. The guy spoke really quickly and there must have been lead up conversations as he knew my father paid his Eircom bills via the post office.

We're at the debt collector threats stage at the moment... parents are very anxious. ComReg are involved but appear to be toothless.

Has anybody had any luck at all in dealing with Yourtel?
Are the debt collection threats just that or should I prepare my parents for the prospect of a visit?!

Any help or advice at all would be a huge help - thank you

Did you ask for the entire transcript recording of the call between yourtel and your father, as per your rights under the Data Protection Act? Read my post on the previous page.
I would also suggest getting your parent's tel. number removed from the NDD - National Directory Database, so as to stop cold-callers and scamsters. Getting removed from the NDD does not mean going ex-directory, although you can do that instead if you so wish.
When was the telephone contract done, you should be given a 2 week cooling off period post mid-June 2014, instead of the 1 week they are giving you.

Regarding debt collection, these are only threats. The only person that has legal powers to demand you pay up is a sheriff. He is a court officer who will have a warrant to collect money and goods up to the value of the debt - after a court judgement. Anyone else does not have this power. A debt collector can turn up on your doorstep and demand you pay them money you owe to someone else, but you can tell them to go away and the debt collector would have no choice but to do so.

Yourtel have employed <SNIP> Crosskerrys of Merrion Square to issue demand letters.

A judgement is required BEFORE any debt can be collected. The steps here are 1) Demand Letter 2) Court action to secure judgement 3) Judgement Issued 4) POSSIBLY yourtel may engage sherriff to collect on foot of the judgement.

Not sure how far these <SNIP> Yourtel are willing to go.
It sounds like Comreg are just another quango.
Get the full transcript first. Director of Corporate Enforcement, Garda Fraud Office, Consumer Agency, Dept. of Communications are probably the next outlets.

Most of all, do not worry unjustly, for the little people of Ireland must rise up against these <SNIP>, and there appears to be quite a few little people by now.
Tell your folks to enjoy their Christmas!