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Cancelled Wiggle Zonda wheel offer

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2

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    #32
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    letape wrote: »
    Legally that's not the way this is considered. Something on their website is being offered at whatever price it is, the customer completed the purchase on-line which is an acceptance of the offer.

    Actually that is the way it is legally considered. The advertisement on the website is an invitation to treat. You placing an order is an offer. They accepting the order is acceptance and at that point a contract is formed - not when you place an order on the website.

    This is why if you find an item in a supermarket with an incorrect pricetag on it the supermarket is not in fact legally obliged to sell you a laptop for E5.99 which would normally be priced at E599.

    However : at least in my case they accepted paypal payment and sent me an email accepting the offer - so it would appear that a contract had been concluded at that stage. I could push to insist that they execute the contract. The email does not explicitly state that the order was accepted but it does state:

    "You have selected Free Delivery and your order will be despatched as soon as ALL the items are in stock. In case an item is not currently in stock we will hold the order for 5 working days, after which we will despatch everything we have."

    That coupled with their taking a paypal payment would probably be enough to prove a contract had been made.

    Having said that I am unlikely to bother in the circumstances. they have refunded the paypal payment. Just not really worth the hassle imo, especially when i was not really looking to buy these wheels, just bought them on impulse because i thought was a good price.


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    #33
    dunworth1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭dunworth1


    yay bargains...not :rolleyes:


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    #34
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    Mods- Perhaps another thread should be created rather than cluttering this one with off topic conversation about ordering issues and CRC?


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    #35
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I've hived off discussion of this issue into a new thread, since it's not strictly bargain alerts any more.

    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Mods- Perhaps another thread should be created rather than cluttering this one with off topic conversation about ordering issues and CRC?

    In future, could report issues like this. We generally don't see on-thread requests. I was only aware of this when someone else reported it.


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    #36
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    stecleary wrote: »
    They have themselves well covered

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/terms_conditions#termsofservice

    Our Contract
    When you place an order, you will receive an acknowledgement e-mail confirming receipt of your order. This email will only be an acknowledgement and will not constitute acceptance of your order. Wiggle retains the right to accept or reject this offer before processing the order. A contract between us for the purchase of the goods will not be formed until your payment has been approved by us, the prices have been verified, and the order has been processed and dispatched. A second email will be sent confirming these arrangements.

    They can write whatever they like. If I am not mistaken the law (european for that matter) goes like this, you get into a contract once your payment has gone through and authorized. Nowadays payments go through immediately, as the stock is connected to the warehouses and they know at the same time if they can process your order or not. Giving a refund without a valid reason (put a wrong price? well tough luck) is a breach of that contract and if anyone is interested they can pursue it. I remember these from a few years back that I had a similar case (no wrong price though something else) so I am open to corrections.


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    #37
    irishbuzz
    Registered Users Posts: 400 ✭✭irishbuzz


    For those experiencing some confusion / issues with the Zonda Cassettes I had a thread on this before:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=83543311


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    #38
    3102derek
    Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭3102derek


    a friend get a despatched mail from them.


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    #39
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    So did anyone get back to wiggle to complain and how did you get on?


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    #40
    Plastik
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Plastik


    codie wrote: »
    So did anyone get back to wiggle to complain and how did you get on?

    Yep
    Thank you for your email.

    Please accept my sincere apologies for the cancellation of your order #.... Unfortunately there has been an error with this wheelset and we are not able to despatch this to you.

    A full refund will be processed back to your original payment method, our stock control team are looking into this and a more detailed explanation will be sent shortly.

    I can only apologise again for any inconvenience caused on this occasion and if you would like any assistance on finding a possible alternative, please do not hesitate to contact me and I will do my best to help.


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    #41
    pats22b
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭pats22b


    i got

    "
    Dear Customer,

    Thank you for your recent order for the Campagnolo Zonda Clincher Wheelset.

    Due to a listing error you purchased this product at an incorrect price, therefore we have had to cancel your order. We can only deeply apologise that we have let you down on this occasion and fully appreciate any disappointment this may cause.

    We removed the product from sale as soon as we noticed the error and fully reimbursed all effected customers at the earliest opportunity.

    The Wheelset has now been added back on site and is available to purchase at the correct price. Our team of product specialists are on hand to assist if you’d like help finding an alternative Wheelset.

    Again, we offer our sincere apologies for the inconvenience that has been caused.

    Kind regards,
    Wiggle Customer Services

    "


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    #42
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    pats22b wrote: »
    i got

    "
    Dear Customer,

    Thank you for your recent order for the Campagnolo Zonda Clincher Wheelset.

    Due to a listing error you purchased this product at an incorrect price, therefore we have had to cancel your order. We can only deeply apologise that we have let you down on this occasion and fully appreciate any disappointment this may cause.

    We removed the product from sale as soon as we noticed the error and fully reimbursed all effected customers at the earliest opportunity.

    The Wheelset has now been added back on site and is available to purchase at the correct price. Our team of product specialists are on hand to assist if you’d like help finding an alternative Wheelset.

    Again, we offer our sincere apologies for the inconvenience that has been caused.

    Kind regards,
    Wiggle Customer Services

    "

    Checked my mail got the same 5 mins ago


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    #43
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    I just spoke with someone in citizens information and Astramonti is right.He told me that once payment has gone through there is a legal contract.Let wiggle know that you are not accepting the money back .He also gave me number for the European consumer issues but that closed at 3.


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    #44
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    AstraMonti wrote: »
    They can write whatever they like. If I am not mistaken the law (european for that matter) goes like this, you get into a contract once your payment has gone through and authorized. Nowadays payments go through immediately, as the stock is connected to the warehouses and they know at the same time if they can process your order or not. Giving a refund without a valid reason (put a wrong price? well tough luck) is a breach of that contract and if anyone is interested they can pursue it. I remember these from a few years back that I had a similar case (no wrong price though something else) so I am open to corrections.

    Well there are two scenarios here:

    1. a contract was formed which permitted them to charge your credit card/paypal etc.

    or

    2. There was no contract and they have unlawfully taken your money, albeit that they voluntarily gave it back subsequently.

    I think it is pretty clear that it is the former.

    The hassle of establishing that they have breached a contract is probably not worth the benefit though. Not to me anyway.


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    #45
    slap/dash
    Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭slap/dash


    Yeah. I got the same resp


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    #46
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    pats22b wrote: »
    i got

    "
    Dear Customer,

    Thank you for your recent order for the Campagnolo Zonda Clincher Wheelset.

    Due to a listing error you purchased this product at an incorrect price, therefore we have had to cancel your order. We can only deeply apologise that we have let you down on this occasion and fully appreciate any disappointment this may cause.

    We removed the product from sale as soon as we noticed the error and fully reimbursed all effected customers at the earliest opportunity.

    The Wheelset has now been added back on site and is available to purchase at the correct price. Our team of product specialists are on hand to assist if you’d like help finding an alternative Wheelset.

    Again, we offer our sincere apologies for the inconvenience that has been caused.

    Kind regards,
    Wiggle Customer Services

    "

    I just got that email too.

    They have acknowledged that the purchase completed. Rather hurts their case if they are resisting going through with it.


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    #47
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    I have mailed them stating that I am not accepting the refund and would rather the the order proceeds as my credit card has been charged and we now have a legal contract which I expect fulfilled.
    Prob have the refund before a reply.Worth a punt anyway


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    #48
    Masala
    Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭Masala


    Guys.... why is everyone trying to 'catch them out' on this mistake. We all make mistakes sometime... but this 'I've got rights' is pushing it.

    A mistake was made.....why should anyone expect that another party should incur a loss cos you have caught them out!. Would u like it to happen to you in your role at work??? In your professional capacity....??

    I blame reality TV for sending the public into 'I'll go to the press with this' attitude.....

    I am no expert on law....but would be very surprised if this went to a Small Claims Court that the judge would say to Wiggle hand over the wheels and suffer the loss.


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    #49
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    Masala wrote: »
    Guys.... why is everyone trying to 'catch them out' on this mistake. We all make mistakes sometime... but this 'I've got rights' is pushing it.

    A mistake was made.....why should anyone expect that another party should incur a loss cos you have caught them out!. Would u like it to happen to you in your role at work??? In your professional capacity....??

    I blame reality TV for sending the public into 'I'll go to the press with this' attitude.....

    I am no expert on law....but would be very surprised if this went to a Small Claims Court that the judge would say to Wiggle hand over the wheels and suffer the loss.

    So if you purchased a new bike for €2k off say halfords you pay and come back to collect etc , halfords say I made a mistake its €3k sorry you just say ok thats fine and walk out ?


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    #50
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,281 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    codie wrote: »
    So if you purchased a new bike for €2k off say halfords you pay and come back to collect etc , halfords say I made a mistake its €3k sorry you just say ok thats fine and walk out ?

    With online orders you havn't paid, there's a difference.


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    #51
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    Masala wrote: »
    Guys.... why is everyone trying to 'catch them out' on this mistake. We all make mistakes sometime... but this 'I've got rights' is pushing it.

    A mistake was made.....why should anyone expect that another party should incur a loss cos you have caught them out!. Would u like it to happen to you in your role at work??? In your professional capacity....??

    I blame reality TV for sending the public into 'I'll go to the press with this' attitude.....

    I am no expert on law....but would be very surprised if this went to a Small Claims Court that the judge would say to Wiggle hand over the wheels and suffer the loss.

    That's why companies have insurances, because people eventually fúck up. In my team someone did something really stupid and we lost an 1.2million customer in the first quarter. Do you think the company asked the money from the employee? Nope they didn't.

    And they could have come back with a counter offer because of their error but instead they refunded the money with a halfarsed email.


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    #52
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    ted1 wrote: »
    With online orders you havn't paid, there's a difference.

    Yes, yes you have. Its just that numbers are changing accounts instead of real money exchanging hands.


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    #53
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭buffalo


    codie wrote: »
    I just spoke with someone in citizens information and Astramonti is right.He told me that once payment has gone through there is a legal contract.Let wiggle know that you are not accepting the money back .He also gave me number for the European consumer issues but that closed at 3.

    Is the law the same in the UK as it is here?


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    #54
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    buffalo wrote: »
    Is the law the same in the UK as it is here?

    I think its a european law-directive. Maybe someone closer to that side of the law can explain to us.


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    #55
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,052 ✭✭✭buffalo


    stecleary wrote: »
    They have themselves well covered

    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/terms_conditions#termsofservice

    Our Contract
    When you place an order, you will receive an acknowledgement e-mail confirming receipt of your order. This email will only be an acknowledgement and will not constitute acceptance of your order. Wiggle retains the right to accept or reject this offer before processing the order. A contract between us for the purchase of the goods will not be formed until your payment has been approved by us, the prices have been verified, and the order has been processed and dispatched. A second email will be sent confirming these arrangements.

    The above, combined with the below, from UK advice on distance selling, seems to imply that Wiggle don't have to honour the agreement (edit: unless the goods have been dispatched):
    To work out whether the trader has accepted your offer, you'll need to check the following:

    * the wording of your confirmation email or letter. For example, it might specify that the trader has accepted your offer
    * the terms and conditions. For example, they might say when acceptance takes place
    * whether the goods have been sent out or the service has started – if they have, it would be safe to assume that the trader has accepted your offer
    * if payment has been taken. If payment has been taken from you this does not necessarily mean acceptance has happened, but it could be a good indicator.

    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_different_ways_of_buying_e/consumer_buying_by_internet_mail_order_or_phone_e/how_a_distance_sale_contract_is_made.htm


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    #56
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    buffalo wrote: »
    Is the law the same in the UK as it is here?

    Guy said he would be fairly sure its same for UK but to ring European consumer issues to make sure.


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    #57
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,281 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    AstraMonti wrote: »
    Yes, yes you have. Its just that numbers are changing accounts instead of real money exchanging hands.

    No, a hold is placed on your account but the payment isn't processed till the order is fulfilled by the vendor


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    #58
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,281 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    AstraMonti wrote: »
    I think its a european law-directive. Maybe someone closer to that side of the law can explain to us.

    Directive are not laws, there directives that should be used to make a law. But until there writing into law they don't mean much.


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    #59
    Unknown Soldier
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭Unknown Soldier


    "and fully reimbursed all effected customers"

    "and fully reimbursed all affected customers"


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    #60
    codie
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭codie


    ted1 wrote: »
    No, a hold is placed on your account but the payment isn't processed till the order is fulfilled by the vendor

    The payment was taken out of my card.


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    #61
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    The contract is not complete till the goods are sent. As long as you're refunded then they don't have to send anything. Because online sales are intially automated, they have to have the clause that its not complete till sent.

    If the same wheels had been out of stock in error instead of mispriced the same solution (refund) would apply and noone would be insisting they send wheels they don't have.


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