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UFC Fight Night 53 - Nelson vs Story

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    #362
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    That's true... I guess my point is you can learn striking, its much tougher to be taught heart.


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    #363
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    DeVore wrote: »
    That's true... I guess my point is you can learn striking, its much tougher to be taught heart.

    Heart is over rated In my humble opinion. Most of thise guys are warriors by default and trading more brain cells than necessary shouldn't be encouraged.


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    #364
    monkey8
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭monkey8


    darced wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    Light years ahead in grappling terms yes, but not in striking.

    They are both equally poor nthe striking department.

    Nelson's has never displayed good stand up against decent opposition.
    Very lacklustre and in no way ready for the top 5


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    #365
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    monkey8 wrote: »
    Light years ahead in grappling terms yes, but not in striking.

    They are both equally poor nthe striking department.

    Nelson's has never displayed good stand up against decent opposition.
    Very lacklustre and in no way ready for the top 5

    Disagree, Nelson has issues in standup (backing up in straight lines being the main one) but is sooooo much better than Cathal there. Nelson also is quite fast which helps him a lot there too.


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    #366
    mailburner
    Registered Users Posts: 23,848 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    monkey8 wrote: »
    Light years ahead in grappling terms yes, but not in striking.

    They are both equally poor nthe striking department.

    cathal is very poor in the striking department, amongst the weakest in
    his division
    you really can't compare their striking at all, think gunni striking is pretty good
    but it's impossible to put away someone like story and he just made gunni look ordinary
    gunnis striking will improve in time, cant say the same for cathal but as long
    as he can somehow grind out wins nobody will care how pendred wins


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    #367
    stiffler123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,651 ✭✭✭stiffler123


    Cathal is the exact same fighter he was in the TUF house. He's slow, predictable and his boxing is terrible. His best traits I suppose are his durability and grinding nature but I don't see him going far at all.

    Gunnar on the other hand will come back stronger after this. No shame in losing to Rick Story at all. Story just had a better game plan and countered very well. Charles Rosa was really impressive even in defeat.


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    #368
    EuskalHerria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭EuskalHerria


    If I'm reading the last few posts correctly, and I'd like to think I am, people are suggesting we merge Cathal and Gunni into one fighter. Interesting.


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    #369
    monkey8
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭monkey8


    mailburner wrote: »
    you really can't compare their striking at all, think gunni striking is pretty good
    but it's impossible to put away someone like story and he just made gunni look wins nobody will care how pendred wins

    The Cummings fight demonstrated the limitations of Nelson's striking.
    Not anywhere near good enough.
    Having better striking than pendred doesn't mean much!


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    #370
    mailburner
    Registered Users Posts: 23,848 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    monkey8 wrote: »
    The Cummings fight demonstrated the limitations of Nelson's striking.
    Not anywhere near good enough.
    Having better striking than pendred doesn't mean much!

    we'll agree to disagree, he did nothing against cummings at all and that same laid back machida approach didnt work with story
    I think his striking is good but there's just not enough volume, he's certainly quick enough
    just a bad match up in story
    there no way anyone can say nelson and pendred have equally bad stand up, their stand up is leagues apart imo


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    #371
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Glock Lesnar wrote: »
    I can't understand why everyone at SBG isn't a top level boxer, it's something that serves McGregor so well and there's a great boxing tradition in this country. Pendred's striking is glacial, it's slow and it's not technical. Gunnar's unorthodox style works but if he could switch it up to a traditional boxing style he could catch opponents off guard.

    This!!! Times 1,000.
    Inexplicable to me - especially as that's where the (commercial) game seems to be moving. Lots and lots of talent there, but lots and lots of hungry talent everywhere. Love that the SBG team seem to be so tight and supportive of each other but would also hope that they're not going to fall into a trap of being too insular.

    Have to say Gunni has always been a class act though - as now as gracious in defeat as in victory. Likewise Pendred and da Hooligan - couldn't find sounder. True character shown by all of them and would suspect that's indicative of all of those they're surrounded by too. Really really hope they keep on learning, train smart, train safe and develop even more, helping to keep the sport growing in Ireland.


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    #372
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    Cali_girl wrote: »
    This!!! Times 1,000.
    Inexplicable to me - especially as that's where the (commercial) game seems to be moving. Lots and lots of talent there, but lots and lots of hungry talent everywhere. Love that the SBG team seem to be so tight and supportive of each other but would also hope that they're not going to fall into a trap of being too insular.

    Have to say Gunni has always been a class act though - as now as gracious in defeat as in victory. Likewise Pendred and da Hooligan - couldn't find sounder. True character shown by all of them and would suspect that's indicative of all of those they're surrounded by too. Really really hope they keep on learning, train smart, train safe and develop even more, helping to keep the sport growing in Ireland.
    Erm... You realise McGregor actually did boxing for years as a teenager and continued training it in his early days of MMA? He even taught boxing a while back in SBG, though I highly doubt he does that anymore.

    It's not a matter of just learning it. It takes years to reach that level of skill.


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    #373
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #374
    splashthecash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭splashthecash


    Is the Gunnar fight over?


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    #375
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gumbi wrote: »
    Erm... You realise McGregor actually did boxing for years as a teenager and continued training it in his early days of MMA? He even taught boxing a while back in SBG, though I highly doubt he does that anymore.

    It's not a matter of just learning it. It takes years to reach that level of skill.

    Absolutely - was only referring to the FN53/54 guys above though. McGregors' boxing and footwork is stunning!!! Are you kind of implying that you think that the arts learnt early e.g. boxing/ movement or that kind of super strength wrestling we see from the US high-school wrestlers is never 'catch-upable-with' though? Just a curious fan, long time ago ex-am boxer here btw…


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    #376
    Easy Rod
    Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭Easy Rod


    splashthecash wrote: »
    Is the Gunnar fight over?

    Only about 24 hours ago.


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    #377
    splashthecash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭splashthecash


    Easy Rod wrote: »
    Only about 24 hours ago.

    Bugger - thought it was tonight


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    #378
    EuskalHerria
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,273 ✭✭✭EuskalHerria


    splashthecash wrote: »
    Bugger - thought it was tonight

    You didn't miss much. After their respective performances, people were mainly talking about amalgamating Pendred and Gunni into a single super fighter.


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    #379
    crybaby
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭crybaby


    I though Pendred won his fight or did I read the results wrong?


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    #380
    Mr. Loverman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,001 ✭✭✭Mr. Loverman


    crybaby wrote: »
    I though Pendred won his fight or did I read the results wrong?

    He won but it was a controversial decision and his performance was (once again) shocking. His career in the UFC will be over very soon unless he can change his fighting style and learn to punch.


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    #381
    Ian Whelan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 599 ✭✭✭Ian Whelan


    Mr. Loverman wrote: »
    He won but it was a controversial decision and his performance was (once again) shocking. His career in the UFC will be over very soon unless he can change his fighting style and learn to punch.

    Pendred still landed more strikes than the other guy. I know he will have to improve before his next fight but winning is a guaranteed recipe for staying in the UFC.


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    #382
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users Posts: 20,631 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I know its been said before and seems like the in thing to say when a fighter loses but surely if Gunni wants to be a champion and go as far as his can he needs to drop in weight, Is it true he doesn't cut any weight at all ?


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    #383
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    I know its been said before and seems like the in thing to say when a fighter loses but surely if Gunni wants to be a champion and go as far as his can he needs to drop in weight, Is it true he doesn't cut any weight at all ?

    He cuts very little. He weighed 175 in a catchweight vs someone so you can imagine he weighs in or around that in the cage which is nothing (most welters weigh 185-200 in the cage). Not to mention he could lose a small bit of fat too.


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    #384
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    A single super fighter who has great wrestling and ground game but still needs to work a lot on his stand up??! :)


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    #385
    monkey8
    Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭monkey8


    Glock Lesnar wrote: »
    I can't understand why everyone at SBG isn't a top level boxer.

    No offence intended but that's a ridiculous thing to say!

    You can have the best trainers in the world and train every day but if you don't have those innate qualities it takes to be a top level boxer then you will never be world class.
    And it's not just athletic ability, it's timing, coordination etc.

    I suspect pendred doesn't possess these innate abilities (he has other good qualities however)and his striking has probably plateau'd to what is probably close to his optimum level.


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    #386
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    monkey8 wrote: »
    No offence intended but that's a ridiculous thing to say!

    You can have the best trainers in the world and train every day but if you don't have those innate qualities it takes to be a top level boxer then you will never be world class.
    And it's not just athletic ability, it's timing, coordination etc.

    I suspect pendred doesn't possess these innate abilities (he has other good qualities however)and his striking has probably plateau'd to what is probably close to his optimum level.

    These can be learned. Not a fan of "innate ability" or "natural talent" as phrases in general.


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    #387
    John_D80
    Registered Users Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭John_D80


    Gumbi wrote: »
    These can be learned. Not a fan of "innate ability" or "natural talent" as phrases in general.

    I would agree to a point but it's also worth pointing out that it is far far more difficult to teach an adult to be a decent boxer than it is to teach a child or young teen.

    An adult will master the basics quicker but their potential ceiling, in terms of talent, is far lower as a general rule.

    I've sometimes thought this may be part of Cathal Pendred's problem. But on the flip side, you have freaks like Sergio Martinez who didn't box until his early twenties as far as I know.


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    #388
    Henry9
    Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭Henry9


    Gumbi wrote: »
    These can be learned. Not a fan of "innate ability" or "natural talent" as phrases in general.
    Just because they're not fashionable at the moment doesn't mean they're not very real factors in success.

    Any technically demanding sport will have athletes who are more of a 'natural' than others. Call it talent or innate or gifted or whatever.
    I can understand coaches playing it down to an extent, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

    And athletic ability can't be 'learned'. If you don't have it take it up with your parents.


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    #389
    Dtp1979
    Registered Users Posts: 12,757 ✭✭✭✭Dtp1979


    Henry9 wrote: »
    Just because they're not fashionable at the moment doesn't mean they're not very real factors in success.

    Any technically demanding sport will have athletes who are more of a 'natural' than others. Call it talent or innate or gifted or whatever.
    I can understand coaches playing it down to an extent, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

    And athletic ability can't be 'learned'. If you don't have it take it up with your parents.

    Totally true. Every sport has them. Michael Jordan, Michael Schumacher, Jon jones, Rhonda rousey, Lionel messi, etc etc


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    #390
    DeVore
    Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Then there is physiological elements too. Certain nationalities are predisposed to certain sports because of a difference in the combinations of muscle fibre types.

    The thing about starting young isn't entirely to do with the plasticity of the brain at that age, it also has to do with sheer volume of time. Something very odd happens around the 10,000 hours of practise mark where the routine (be it piano playing to wood turning) goes from conscious thought at some level, to sub conscious routine. (There's a very good book about this topic called Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell).
    Starting as a kid gets you a head start towards knocking up those 10,000 hours. There are obviously some people who seem to short circuit this but for the vast majority of people that's the required practise time.


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    #391
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,154 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Dtp1979 wrote: »
    Totally true. Every sport has them. Michael Jordan, Michael Schumacher, Jon jones, Rhonda rousey, Lionel messi, etc etc

    How do you know it's natural talent and they haven't just put in the required work?

    I'm not denying the role genetics plays in sport. Or the fact that some people just move better in certain ways. But I also think talk if natural ability really undermines the sheer volume of work out in to get to that level.


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