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Dublin v Donegal Sunday 31 August AI semifinal Mod Warning Posts #392 #541

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    #572
    Mal-Adjusted
    Registered Users Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    Sorry for the late comment but I just want to say what a fantastic game. As a neutral, I was listening to the first half on the bus and caught most of the second half. a game of twists and turns where the once dead & buried came back with flair. fantastic skill from both teams. I feel sorry for Dublin & my family there, but I was getting sick of the media bull$h1t that went with them. Obviously the players and non-bandwagoners knew 10:1 odds were ridiculous but you do get the likes of people bragging about how their going to raillroad Kerry before they've even reached the final (there were plenty big mouths in my own county from winning Liam last year who went quiet fairly quick). likewise, people mocking them and sticking the oar in after the game are just as bad. The dubs are in a strong place and will probably reclaim Sam in the next few years.

    Donegal, to their credit really showed great heart to claw their way back into the game. Plenty of teams would (and have) drop the head and just give up in their position. Their biggest concern could be that it took a while to get into gear and they can't afford to let the Kingdom blitz them like Dublin did at the start, and that's considering Kerry weren't given much hope at the start of the year!

    All in all, three fantastic games over the last week and a bit, with four great teams. Gaelic football is in a strong place and hopefully will remain so.


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    #573
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Jimminy Mc Fukhead wrote: »
    You have to respect Donegal. They will win or lose with grace.
    With Kerry you will have excuses, whinging and crying when they lose.

    I think Mayo already have the All Ireland wrapped up for that one.

    The bitterness around all the fora is unreal. Jumping in on totally unrelated threads to have a moan.


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    #574
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Dublin play a fancy dan game, then the pressure comes on and they crumble real good. Game needs restructuring. The provincial system is too weak.


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    #575
    CurryFlavoured
    Registered Users Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭CurryFlavoured


    quad_red wrote: »
    Good point, McFukhead.

    Do people ever tire of the 'this county's fan are X and this county's fans are Y' stuff?

    Is this what the next few weeks is going to be about? The graceful, buoyant honesty and handwork of the Donegal team and people versus the cheating, whining official bribing Kerry team and people?

    Wopeee. Can't wait.

    This times a million.

    Without sounding like a pessimistic sod, you'll find arseholes in every section on the Country. The vast majority of GAA fans are sound though.


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    #576
    CurryFlavoured
    Registered Users Posts: 2,590 ✭✭✭CurryFlavoured


    Nidgeweasel wrote: »
    I thought Connolly was class myself to be fair.

    Connolly was golden yesterday, best I've ever seen him play genuinely. I've criticised him previously for not performing enough when the going gets tough but he was sublime, didn't deserve to be on the losing team.


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    #577
    DoctaDee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭DoctaDee


    Rightwing wrote: »
    Dublin play a fancy dan game, then the pressure comes on and they crumble real good. Game needs restructuring. The provincial system is too weak.

    I'll keep with what we have thanks... 1st championship defeat in 2 years and it's licence to deconstruct our way of playing ..not for me


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    #578
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    DoctaDee wrote: »
    I'll keep with what we have thanks... 1st championship defeat in 2 years and it's licence to deconstruct our way of playing ..not for me

    It's not just Dublin though, Mayo are untested until the quarters, the munster is very weak too.

    As a neutral I don't know how good this Dublin team are, was it a one off, or are they just great at thrashing inferior teams. A better system would answer that.


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    #579
    Ceist_Beag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,830 ✭✭✭Ceist_Beag


    CurryFlavoured wrote: »
    Connolly was golden yesterday, best I've ever seen him play genuinely. I've criticised him previously for not performing enough when the going gets tough but he was sublime, didn't deserve to be on the losing team.
    Connolly and Flynn were absolutely magnificent yesterday and was surprised that neither got even a mention in the mom nominations. I'm sure Dublin will be back next year hungrier than ever - but we'll certainly enjoy yesterday as a special day and aim for a repeat in 3 weeks time! :D


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    #580
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    Ten minutes in, with Connolly and Flynn on fire with long range kicking I was thinking it was going to be a long day for Donegal. At one point a group of 6/7 Dublin players picked the ball up just inside the Dublin half and their 6/7 Donegal counterparts were running backwards forming a defensive line inside 40 metres, it looked like a 7 v 7 training drill - it was around then that the game turned slightly.

    I think Paddy Power took their time with a reality check, Donegal were 1/2 to beat Kerry yesterday, they're now 4/6. Its going to be tense, I dont know how to call it - I cant bloody wait.


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    #581
    Timmyctc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    If someone told me pregame that Christy Toye coming on would be the turning point for us to go on and Hammer the dubs Id have been calling the fellas in the white coats. Twas an inspired change. But Jaysus. How good is wee Mc Hugh.


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    #582
    mickmackey1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    Mal-Adjusted wrote: »
    All in all, three fantastic games over the last week and a bit, with four great teams. Gaelic football is in a strong place and hopefully will remain so.

    Well the top four are in a strong place, it's the other 28 who worry me.


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    #583
    Timmyctc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭Timmyctc


    mickmackey1 wrote: »
    Well the top four are in a strong place, it's the other 28 who worry me.

    I dunno if its as bad as you make out. Sure didn't Monaghan beat Donegal last year. Roscommon ran Mayo very close this year too actually. Every team is beatable. 2 years ago it was a great feat that Donegal beat Cork and Kerry in the 1/4s and 1/2s sure. Now they're one of the top 4 I presume?

    Doubt Donegal would have made this 'top 4' last year when they were getting hammered by Monaghan and Mayo.

    I'm all for amalgamating Leitrim into Donegal to give Leitrim fans something to shout about though.


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    #584
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    Ten minutes in, with Connolly and Flynn on fire with long range kicking I was thinking it was going to be a long day for Donegal. At one point a group of 6/7 Dublin players picked the ball up just inside the Dublin half and their 6/7 Donegal counterparts were running backwards forming a defensive line inside 40 metres, it looked like a 7 v 7 training drill - it was around then that the game turned slightly.

    I remember that, it was looking ominous at the time, we basically didn't even contest the kick out. Still can't really figure out what happened. They just seemed to go back to basics, settle into their rhythm after that, get the interceptions and counter on the break and maybe as Liam Hayes wrote, suddenly found their All Ireland winning form and belief, something that none of Dublins opponents up to now had.

    People say Dublin went too attacking too early in the 2nd half, but they were very naive in those last 10 minutes of the first half. Donegal would always get a good spell, the priority should have been containing it.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #585
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Amazed to see this Spillane bolixology still being spouted on the Irish TImes website.
    Jim Gavin outwitted by Jim McGuinness. Dublin committed too many players into the Donegal half and McGuinness's men could exploit the large, unguarded space in front of the Dublin goal. Dublin's full back line looked a little bogey since the Laois game, but apart from that, many of Dublin's marquee players didn't perform e.g. Bernard Brogan. Dublin scored about 4 points within the first 5-6 minutes and it looked like a rout was forthcoming. Happily, a number of scuffles and 'injuries' to Donegal players calmed the game at this juncture, stymieing the Dublin attack. It's very difficult to play against a team like Donegal, who at times only had two players in the Dublin half for much of the first half and the rest of the team in the box in front of theirs. Once they built up a lead, they could indeed afford to be more adventurous but I thought their cynical tactics were annoying. If Donegal go on to beat Kerry, then Gaelic football is going to decline as a sport into some horrible spectacle.

    Donegal brought much much more than that to a great game of football. Sour grapes obscuring the view of a game that has done a lot for gaelic games imo.


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    #586
    Burt Macklin
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Burt Macklin


    If scoring 3-14 in a semi final means that a team produced a horrible spectacle, then I'd love to see a beautiful one!
    No pleasing some people.


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    #587
    ganmo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    dublin got beaten by donegals defence.
    fair play to the donegal players for sticking to the pundits!

    but the the donegal fans booing wasn't on and those few 'injuries' at the end hmm? Murphys on ok but the other lads after kicking the ball away...not on


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    #588
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    ganmo wrote: »
    dublin got beaten by donegals defence.
    fair play to the donegal players for sticking to the pundits!

    but the the donegal fans booing wasn't on and those few 'injuries' at the end hmm? Murphys on ok but the other lads after kicking the ball away...not on

    Swings and Roundabouts here, but that doesn't make it ok.


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    #589
    harpsman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭harpsman


    Moneymaker wrote: »
    What arrogance? Muppets in the papers or on twitter?

    Not a single one of us going to the game today thought we'd win this easily. This is a quality Donegal team and they fully deserved their victory. They completely outplayed us.

    Stop talking ****.
    So you all backed Donegal minus three then.

    BTW I dont blame you for thinking Dublin would win handy-I didnt back Donegal at 7/1 either.

    Mind you I did have a tenner on Kerry HT/FT Donegal HT/FT at 50/1- didnt think Kerry would be the ones to let me down!!


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    #590
    ChippingSodbury
    Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ChippingSodbury


    ganmo wrote: »
    dublin got beaten by donegals defence.

    You could nearly say that Dublin were beaten by Dublin's defence!
    It's all well and good to commit lots of players forward when you have the ball but it's just not sensible to think that every time you go forward you either:
    a) won't lose the ball
    b) score or kick the ball dead and have time to retreat

    Jack McCaffrey is not a defender; yes, he's super quick but if he's playing as a defender, his first responsibility is as a defender. Same for Cooper although he's a better defender but for large periods of the game, there was a gaping hole in the centre of Dublin's defence. I think a fair proportion of the blame lies with the tactics employed. If the Dublin forwards were so good, why did they need the whole half back line attacking (at the same time!) with them?

    Dublin didn't turn into a bad team overnight, they have a squad of fine players but I think a smerter tactician on the sideline would have served them better.

    I backed Kerry for AI on Sat night at 5/2. Must check and see if they've now shortened or lengthened...


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    #591
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,923 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Amazed to see this Spillane bolixology still being spouted on the Irish TImes website.



    Donegal brought much much more than that to a great game of football. Sour grapes obscuring the view of a game that has done a lot for gaelic games imo.


    I've said this umpteen times before but if Spillane had his way everyone would be playing that kick and catch horse****e that he thinks is the pinnacle style of the game.

    The Donegal performance yesterday was all the more impressive given the start Dublin had.

    ---

    On another note so far since yesterday I have pretty much encountered 100s of Dublin fans during and after the match and indeed in here who have been nothing but gracious in defeat and could see clearly that the best team won. I haven't heard one sore word about the match at all. Except from the anti-Dublin brigade on here... How do these people get up in the morning?


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    #592
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,764 ✭✭✭corny


    ChippingSodbury wrote: »
    You could nearly say that Dublin were beaten by Dublin's defence!
    It's all well and good to commit lots of players forward when you have the ball but it's just not sensible to think that every time you go forward you either:
    a) won't lose the ball
    b) score or kick the ball dead and have time to retreat

    Jack McCaffrey is not a defender; yes, he's super quick but if he's playing as a defender, his first responsibility is as a defender. Same for Cooper although he's a better defender but for large periods of the game, there was a gaping hole in the centre of Dublin's defence. I think a fair proportion of the blame lies with the tactics employed. If the Dublin forwards were so good, why did they need the whole half back line attacking (at the same time!) with them?

    Dublin didn't turn into a bad team overnight, they have a squad of fine players but I think a smerter tactician on the sideline would have served them better.

    I backed Kerry for AI on Sat night at 5/2. Must check and see if they've now shortened or lengthened...

    Three years ago the Dublin half back line were under strict instructions not to cross the half way line. The midfielders were similarly restrained. It wasn't pretty to watch but for effectiveness, i agree its a much better way to play Donegal. Doesn't guarantee you win mind you, they'd still be a tough nut to crack.

    Personally i think the logical progression for football in the not too distant future is to play without a full forward line when playing a Donegalesque set up. If you win the ball slow it down, allow Donegal to retreat, gather your forces on halfway and try to attack. If you lose it, retreat and ask Donegal to do the same thing. A game of basketball type thing.

    As far as i'm concerned its been conclusively proven that a conventional set up loses to the way Donegal play (when they have their heads right). Dublin were heralded as bastions of attacking football and they were dismantled in truth.


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    #593
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    corny wrote: »
    Three years ago the Dublin half back line were under strict instructions not to cross the half way line. The midfielders were similarly restrained. It wasn't pretty to watch but for effectiveness, i agree its a much better way to play Donegal. Doesn't guarantee you win mind you, they'd still be a tough nut to crack.

    Personally i think the logical progression for football in the not too distant future is to play without a full forward line when playing a Donegalesque set up. If you win the ball slow it down, allow Donegal to retreat, gather your forces on halfway and try to attack. If you lose it, retreat and ask Donegal to do the same thing. A game of basketball type thing.

    As far as i'm concerned its been conclusively proven that a conventional set up loses to the way Donegal play (when they have their heads right). Dublin were heralded as bastions of attacking football and they were dismantled in truth.

    Yes I think it is the end of the Jim Gavin attack attack brand of football. He will need to revert to something more similar to Gilroy's style or his team will just be another version of the Pillar Caffrey era team.


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    #594
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    BonnieSituation wrote: »

    The Donegal performance yesterday was all the more impressive given the start Dublin had.


    Funnily enough I think Dublin's start arguably detracts from any assessment of Donegal's performance. In reality Donegal could have been beaten by the time they got to grips with Dublin had they conceded even one of the goal chances. Their style of play appears to work best when they are ahead as they can draw a team onto them and hit them on the break but they were in very risky territory at one stage early on and were within a heartbeat of going too far behind. That would concern them looking at yesterday's performance which otherwise was very good

    I can't see them losing the final though.


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    #595
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    corny wrote: »
    As far as i'm concerned its been conclusively proven that a conventional set up loses to the way Donegal play (when they have their heads right). Dublin were heralded as bastions of attacking football and they were dismantled in truth.

    I wouldn't agree with that.For 25 Minutes Dublin were dominating the game and if they had took one of their 2 goals chances the game would almost certainly have been over.

    What cost Dublin is they lost composure in the second half and they lost the midfield battle from 25 minutes on.They had enough good chances to catch Donegal and they didn't take them.


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    #596
    ChippingSodbury
    Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭ChippingSodbury


    corny wrote: »
    Personally i think the logical progression for football in the not too distant future is to play without a full forward line when playing a Donegalesque set up. If you win the ball slow it down, allow Donegal to retreat, gather your forces on halfway and try to attack. If you lose it, retreat and ask Donegal to do the same thing. A game of basketball type thing.

    I'm not so sure on this one! When I was about ten, the coach lined a few of us up and bet us £1 (a long time ago :pac:) that we wouldn't get 30 yards before the ball when he kicked it. Of course, we all thought we were in with a shout of beating the ball but everyone (at least that I coach!) knows you'll never win the race. In the same vein, if you can kick pass with quality over the wave of retreating players, they'll never catch up an this gives the forward more time and space to do his job. It's easy to do at the keyboard though, a bit harder on the pitch. Smart quality kick passing and mobile forwards is the direction I'd like to see the game evolve. Kerry destroyed Cork in Munster by doing this. Granted, there was no pressure on the ball going in...


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    #597
    paddyisreal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Amazed to see this Spillane bolixology still being spouted on the Irish TImes website.



    Donegal brought much much more than that to a great game of football. Sour grapes obscuring the view of a game that has done a lot for gaelic games imo.

    Kerry were every bit as defensive as donegal on saturday .... I don't what match spillane was watching with his rose tinted glasses on . He must be the poorest analysist in the game


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    #598
    robbiezero
    Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    I wouldn't agree with that.For 25 Minutes Dublin were dominating the game and if they had took one of their 2 goals chances the game would almost certainly have been over.

    What cost Dublin is they lost composure in the second half and they lost the midfield battle from 25 minutes on.They had enough good chances to catch Donegal and they didn't take them.

    Once Donegal got to grips with the Dublin attack and game plan, the rest of the game was a hiding for Dublin. Dubs 9-4 up with 25 gone. Rest of game was 3-10 to 8 for Donegal and the game was over with 15 minutes to go.
    If one of their goal chances had gone in, it might have been game over, but maybe not. Cluxton saved an almost certain goal from McHugh in the second half.

    For me there is no way Dublin can set up like that again outside of Leinster, when playing one of the top teams.


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    #599
    Yellowblackbird
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Yellowblackbird


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    Ten minutes in, with Connolly and Flynn on fire with long range kicking I was thinking it was going to be a long day for Donegal. At one point a group of 6/7 Dublin players picked the ball up just inside the Dublin half and thheir 6/7 Donegal counterparts were running

    even when dublin were kicking long range points early on i thouhht it was ominous that we couldnt penetrate the blanket as in the monaghan game. even with the the hsdefenders all attacking throughout thr whole game ee could never bresk through. people thought the monaghan game would be good preperation for but it was actually perfect preperstion for donegal. they had a close up study of how dublin in how dublin would try to get approach masded defrnce


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    #600
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Yellowblackbird wrote: »
    even when dublin were kicking long range points early on i thouhht it was ominous that we couldnt penetrate the blanket as in the monaghan game. even with the the hsdefenders all attacking throughout thr whole game ee could never bresk through. people thought the monaghan game would be good preperation for but it was actually perfect preperstion for donegal. they had a close up study of how dublin in how dublin would try to get approach masded defrnce

    I said the same myself after the Monaghan game, they stifled the Dubs for almost half an hour before the 6 day turnaround and lack of belief got to them.
    You could see clearly how vulnerable Dublin were, to a well thought out strategy and McGuinness was always going to be superior in the strategy department.
    I wish I had gone to the bookies with my gut instinct and a ball of yo yo's on this one! :(


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    #601
    DoctaDee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,593 ✭✭✭DoctaDee


    So... the last few weeks we've had to endure the hand wringing about the state of the game with Dublin being the dominant force for years to come, split them up, take the money off them, get them to play outside Croker.

    Come yesterday, we lose our 2nd championship game in 4 years and the same interested parties are now telling us for the good of Dublin football that we have to deconstruct the way we play ?

    Look we get it, there's great mileage to be found in a Dublin defeat, you can either stick the knife in or be a bit more subtle. Cast the mind back a year ago when Donegal were beaten by Mayo, and contrast that with the same playing ideals that were so much on show from a very good Donegal team yesterday. Jim Gavin and the players have the same belief in their football principles, one defeat won't change that.

    People are too quick to rush to judgement, we're grand the way we are, I wouldn't change a thing.


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