Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Petition against VAT on health foods

Options
  • 21-06-2014 11:48am
    #1
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    I think this extra VAT would be a huge deterrent to many people who want to purchase health foods and herbal treatments to improve their own health and prevent illness,

    if you agree and would like to help to stop this from hapening please consider signing the petition :

    <snip>


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I think this extra VAT would be a huge deterrent to many people who want to purchase health foods and herbal treatments to improve their own health and prevent illness,

    if you agree and would like to help to stop this from hapening please consider signing the petition :

    <snip>

    I won't be signing that as most 'health foods' and 'herbal treatments' have no beneficial effect on health and should be taxed as they are a luxury. Like organic food if people have enough money to waste on it at least let some of the money go back to people who can't afford proper food.


  • Options
    #3
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    generic2012 wrote: »
    I won't be signing that as most 'health foods' and 'herbal treatments' have no beneficial effect on health and should be taxed as they are a luxury. Like organic food if people have enough money to waste on it at least let some of the money go back to people who can't afford proper food.

    You are entitled to your opinion and I'm happy to say I have fund many of them highly efective, and they have saved me from having to rely on strong pharmaceutical drugs (not to 'knock' them either- but I would prefer to heal myself as naturally as possible when possible).

    Anyway, nobody is holding a gun to your head to sign it, obviously only those who care about it will want to sign.


  • Options
    #4
    cormie
    Registered Users Posts: 20,835 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Aren't whole foods VAT free and everything in their natural state? What about fruit and veg? I'm all for the natural way to heal yourself too but where would you draw the line with what's luxury and what's not? There's no vat on whole nuts as far as I know or the likes of dates, but blend them together and package it nicely and there is? It's a strange one. Also what's the deal with importing such food from abroad, can they be stung for import duty and vat?


  • Options
    #5
    September1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭September1


    generic2012 wrote: »
    I won't be signing that as most 'health foods' and 'herbal treatments' have no beneficial effect on health and should be taxed as they are a luxury. Like organic food if people have enough money to waste on it at least let some of the money go back to people who can't afford proper food.


    It makes sense, and I wonder if there should be other petition organised to make sure that this voice also gets heard.


  • Options
    #6
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    September1 wrote: »
    It makes sense, and I wonder if there should be other petition organised to make sure that this voice also gets heard.

    A petition to increase the cost of items people pay for with their own hard earned money in an effort to improve their health and manage chronic conditions and decrease their reliance on chemical based items that come with side effects and are manufactured in environentally costly ways?

    Are you confusing the words ''health foods'' with Class-A drugs? Or take-away foods?

    Anyone would think people are having health foods handed to them by the state at the tax payers' expense!

    Jees there are some bad minded people in the world. God forbid that tye would motivate themself to do something positive instead of begrudging and belittling others attempts.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    The petition is awfully vague isn't it? What is a "health food"?
    Irish Revenue are slowly but surely rolling forward with a policy which will mean that any money spent on maintaining or improving your health will be taxed at 23%. We don’t believe that this is in the best interest of our customers & the general public and are petitioning Minister of Finance Michael Noonan to stop this from happening. This new tax would essentially be a tax on your best efforts to eat and live a healthier lifestyle. Try to treat a common cold or look after those creaky sore joints and soon you may have to pay VAT for the privilege.

    If herbal teas are taxed more than black teas that seems rather odd but what else is it on about?

    decrease their reliance on chemical based items
    Everything is chemicals...


  • Options
    #8
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    A petition to increase the cost of items people pay for with their own hard earned money in an effort to improve their health and manage chronic conditions and decrease their reliance on chemical based items that come with side effects and are manufactured in environentally costly ways?

    Are you confusing the words ''health foods'' with Class-A drugs? Or take-away foods?

    Anyone would think people are having health foods handed to them by the state at the tax payers' expense!

    Jees there are some bad minded people in the world. God forbid that tye would motivate themself to do something positive instead of begrudging and belittling others attempts.

    People get taxed for spending their hard earned money on alcohol, on sending kids to college, on a whole range of activities. Why should 'health' foods be any different?

    Poppy seeds are seen as a 'health food' and are also used to make heroin, a class A drug, so perhaps you are the one that's confused.


  • Options
    #9
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    ''Everything is chemicals'' ? Oh well then we might as well not bother wearing gloves when we next use caustic soda or bleach.

    I am learning to recognise some antagonistic posters on this site, so I will steer clear of the thread and leave it there to allow genuine posters to see the petition.


  • Options
    #10
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Okay I'm sorry for trying to find out what you're petitioning about. Should I shut up and click yes to everything?
    :confused:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_substance


  • Options
    #11
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,514 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    ''Everything is chemicals'' ? Oh well then we might as well not bother wearing gloves when we next use caustic soda or bleach.
    Don't even get me started on sodium chloride or dihydrogen monoxide

    What exactly is the new legislation aimed at? From the petition site:
    Irish Revenue are slowly but surely rolling forward with a policy which will mean that any money spent on maintaining or improving your health will be taxed at 23%
    What does that mean? I buy apples to help "maintain or improve" my health. Are apples now going to be taxed at 23%?

    Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.

    Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/boardsie-enhancement-suite/

    Chrome/Edge/Opera: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/boardsie-enhancement-suit/bbgnmnfagihoohjkofdnofcfmkpdmmce



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,568 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    For a start, what is the basis of this belief that the government are going to remove VAT exemptions. The link above doesn't even really attempt to specify what it would apply to aside from a mention of tea.


  • Options
    #13
    September1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭September1


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    A petition to increase the cost of items people pay for with their own hard earned money in an effort to improve their health and manage chronic conditions and decrease their reliance on chemical based items that come with side effects and are manufactured in environentally costly ways?

    Oh no, you got me wrong. Let me clarify it, I'm fine with people spending money on medicine and in Ireland we already provide them for free to poorest people and with modest support to everyone else. This petition is about unproven grocery products that are expensive and use deceptive marketing frequently sold in "health shops" - and all that I object is giving those products preferential tax treatment. However I do agree with you that cost should go down, it would seem that manufacturers and "health shops" add massive margins to prices of low cost plant products.


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    Are you confusing the words ''health foods'' with Class-A drugs? Or take-away foods?

    Explain what do you mean as "health foods" then.


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    Anyone would think people are having health foods handed to them by the state at the tax payers' expense!


    If they have preferential tax regime it is equivalent of giving them money.
    FullblownRose wrote: »

    Jees there are some bad minded people in the world. God forbid that tye would motivate themself to do something positive instead of begrudging and belittling others attempts.

    Actually I did suggest something positive and actionable. I think it will be good to make sure government is aware of what people think by means of petition.


  • Options
    #14
    generic2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭generic2012


    If health foods worked they would be called medicine.



    uh-oh...


  • Options
    #15
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    generic2012 wrote: »
    If health foods worked they would be called medicine.



    uh-oh...

    I find it so strange that you feel the need to make remarks like that, in the knowledge that others are of a different opinion and are not forcing their opinion on you.

    I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you understand what modern synthetic medicine is derived from. Not that I require or want an answer from you.

    As previously stated, the petition is there for those who wish to sign it, I'm afraid any frustrated trouble makers will have to pick an argument with someone else. If you wish to further explore the subject the whole internet is there at your disposal.


  • Options
    #16
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    If you wish to further explore the subject the whole internet is there at your disposal.

    You could apply the same argument to posting this thread in the first place.

    What health foods are they talking about?


  • Options
    #17
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    bluewolf wrote: »
    You could apply the same argument to posting this thread in the first place.

    What health foods are they talking about?

    I really do not see how, it's the closest to a health foods forum and i believe there might be people who would like to be aware of the petition.

    Why are you commenting on the post, if you have no interest in the subject?


  • Options
    #18
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    I really do not see how, it's the closest to a health foods forum and i believe there might be people who would like to be aware of the petition.

    Why are you commenting on the post, if you have no interest in the subject?

    Who said I had no interest? I'm trying to find out what the petition is about?! It's a pretty simple question?


  • Options
    #19
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Is this literally just about tea? Because if tea has different vat rates depending on being black / white / other then that's pretty mental imo and I'd be against that all right. I don't really see why they'd be categorised differently.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/storm-in-a-herbal-tea-cup-as-prices-to-jump-by-23pc-30169996.html

    I don't get the "health foods" bit but if it's tea yeah


  • Options
    #20
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,514 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Is this literally just about tea? Because if tea has different vat rates depending on being black / white / other then that's pretty mental imo and I'd be against that all right. I don't really see why they'd be categorised differently.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/storm-in-a-herbal-tea-cup-as-prices-to-jump-by-23pc-30169996.html

    I don't get the "health foods" bit but if it's tea yeah
    But it seems it's not tea. Tea, by definition, comes from the tea plant. It looks like retailers have been selling "herbal infusions" as tea, and avoiding VAT on that basis. So no change in legislation, or even in classification, just enforcement of already existing policy

    Boardsie Enhancement Suite - a browser extension to make using Boards on desktop a better experience (includes full-width display, keyboard shortcuts, dark mode, and more). Now available through your browser's extension store.

    Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/boardsie-enhancement-suite/

    Chrome/Edge/Opera: https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/boardsie-enhancement-suit/bbgnmnfagihoohjkofdnofcfmkpdmmce



  • Options
    #21
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    It's all soaking different plants sure :pac:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    bluewolf wrote: »
    What is a "health food"?
    This is what I want to know too. I imagine the OP thinks people are nitpicking or being pedantic for the sake of it, but a legal definition is essential -there is no room for "ah jaysus, you know fine well what I mean" -then define it legally, if you can't then don't go any further the manufacturers will be laughing at the loopholes.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    It's a pretty simple question?
    +1, the question is very simple, and stops people dead in their tracks when they realise how very difficult it is to define a health food, or junkfood or fast food for that matter.

    I have asked this loads of times and never get a reasonable answer. There was a UK government body trying to describe junk food, it had to be very indepth and ruled out specific items which may fall under it.


  • Options
    #23
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    rubadub wrote: »
    This is what I want to know too. I imagine the OP thinks people are nitpicking or being pedantic for the sake of it, but a legal definition is essential -there is no room for "ah jaysus, you know fine well what I mean" -then define it legally, if you can't then don't go any further the manufacturers will be laughing at the loopholes.


    +1, the question is very simple, and stops people dead in their tracks when they realise how very difficult it is to define a health food, or junkfood or fast food for that matter.

    I have asked this loads of times and never get a reasonable answer. There was a UK government body trying to describe junk food, it had to be very indepth and ruled out specific items which may fall under it.

    I'm afraid you imagine wrong, the OP thinks remarks along the lines of ''health foods are quakery and don't work'' is unhelpful. The title of the post is not ''Efficacy of health foods, please discuss''

    It is simply a petition *some* people will want to know about.

    I a sure there are posts where you can discuss the intricacies of the subject but that was never the purpose of this post. No doubt you can imagine you are stopping people ''dead in their tracks'' on another post, or create your own to showcase your skills.


  • Options
    #24
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,568 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    First they came for the herbal infusions...


  • Options
    #25
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    It is simply a petition *some* people will want to know about.
    Some posters do want to know more about it, namely what is this term "health products" you mention in the petition, people have asked repeatedly but got no answer.


  • Options
    #26
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,283 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    Regardless of what is and isn't a health food, we don't allow Boards to be used to harvest signatures for petitions so I've removed the link.


  • Options
    #27
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    rubadub wrote: »
    Some posters do want to know more about it, namely what is this term "health products" you mention in the petition, people have asked repeatedly but got no answer.

    ..Asked in an argumentative manner, most of them announced they would nt be signing because ..and then went on to convolute the issue. The choice is yours and if the information provided isn't enough, rather than sit there and repeatedly demand more information, go and get it yourself if genuinely interested.

    It is a matter of making people aware, no pressure was put on anyone to sign in.

    @Moderator, I did not realise that at the time. I understand.


  • Options
    #28
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,568 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    If you want people to sign a petition, it's usually a given that the issue is defined rather than link a petition and tell people to go do some research oN it.

    That's not being argumentative or antagonistic, it's just standard procedure.


  • Options
    #29
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    If you want people to sign a petition, it's usually a given that the issue is defined rather than link a petition and tell people to go do some research oN it.

    That's not being argumentative or antagonistic, it's just standard procedure.

    The initial comments were most certainly that.

    A simple polite request for a bit more information is something I'd have been happy to oblige, of course. The petition is now gone, and you could have signed a hundred of them in the time you have spent making pointless comments about it.


  • Options
    #30
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    The initial comments were most certainly that.

    A simple polite request for a bit more information is something I'd have been happy to oblige, of course..

    No you weren't


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,568 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    The initial comments were most certainly that.

    A simple polite request for a bit more information is something I'd have been happy to oblige, of course. The petition is now gone, and you could have signed a hundred of them in the time you have spent making pointless comments about it.

    Yours was the first comment that was antagonistic when you started on about class A drugs after misunderstanding a poster's comments.

    If I'm to sign a petition, I'd like to know the argument in favour of signing it.

    If you don't want to explain the reason you're posting a link to a petition, then why bother?

    I'm not trying to have a go at you but I do think you could maybe explain what it means by health foods if you believe in the rationale for the petition.


Advertisement