Hendry V O'sullivan- Whos the greatest?

seanhynes · 18-04-2014 9:19pm

Fully convinced ronnie will do five in a row and bow out at the top on 8 world titles.he'd be 40 then I can defo see him hanging up his cue when he gets that elusive 8th title, his attitude to the game is very refreshing the last year or so,seeing his programme on Eurosport I don't think iv seen him as hungry for more success

cack_handed · 19-04-2014 10:28am

Greatest snooker players of all time:

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan (right-handed)
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis.
4. Alex Higgins
5. Ronnie O'Sullivan (left-handed)

Backstreet Moyes · 24-04-2014 8:31am

cack_handed wrote: »

Greatest snooker players of all time:

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan (right-handed)
2. Stephen Hendry
3. Steve Davis.
4. Alex Higgins
5. Ronnie O'Sullivan (left-handed)

Yes Ronnie with his bad hand is better than the likes of Higgins and Williams who are multiple world champions, what a load of tripe.

walshb · 26-04-2014 3:52pm

And, as good as Alex was, he wouldn't stand a chance against the best players today or in recent years. The games skill level has improved so very much.

tomdempsey200 · 26-04-2014 4:28pm

how do pockets balls table and equipment compare for the 70s 80s 90s and 00s

who's got the advantage esp. with regard to pockets

walshb · 26-04-2014 4:34pm

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

how do pockets balls table and equipment compare for the 70s 80s 90s and 00s

who's got the advantage esp. with regard to pockets

Forget the pockets and balls. When you're tanked up with gargle they're the least of your worries.

badabing106 · 26-04-2014 8:02pm

I think Hendry would have the edge at the world championships. O Sullivan would not have had the discipline or the mental strength to cope with Hendry when things were not going his way

Bruthal · 26-04-2014 8:29pm

walshb wrote: »

Forget the pockets and balls. When you're tanked up with gargle they're the least of your worries.

I used to find being tanked up, and having empty pockets were directly related

tomdempsey200 · 26-04-2014 8:34pm

badabing106 wrote: »

I think Hendry would have the edge at the world championships. O Sullivan would not have had the discipline or the mental strength to cope with Hendry when things were not going his way

they played I think a half a dozen major finals at hendrys peak in the 90s

ronnie won all but 1 including masters and UK

world's maybe a different outcome but hendry had weak competition in the finals which flattered him

walshb · 27-04-2014 4:59pm

badabing106 wrote: »

I think Hendry would have the edge at the world championships. O Sullivan would not have had the discipline or the mental strength to cope with Hendry when things were not going his way

He did get the better of Ronnie a couple of times, but he also got crushed in a semi, 17-4 a few years back. I still maintain that Ronnie is better no matter what the venue when both at their best.

stpaddy99 · 29-04-2014 11:34am

loving this thread still
its a monumental battle isnt it
centuries are close
maximums are close
hendry 2.5 million ahead on prize money
11 titles ahead on rankings
a further 13 ahead on non rankings
(so 24 titles ahead overall)
2 ahead world titles

so hard to compare because hendry is the consistent one over the career and won more
ronnie has played less but his record is amazing and being hes 5 years younger his era is that bit harder

natural talent both geniuses, ronnie edges talent wise

career wise
I still say ronnie O to needs to win 2 more worlds and a few more ranking tournaments to really be considered as hendrys equal or better

Duggie2012 · 29-04-2014 12:47pm

there is no debate really, ronnie is the greatest most naturally gifted player ever to play the game or more than likely ever will play the game. dosen't really matter if hendry has won more titles, o'sullivan is the greatest player ever. end of.

tomdempsey200 · 29-04-2014 1:17pm

Duggie2012 wrote: »

there is no debate really, ronnie is the greatest most naturally gifted player ever to play the game or more than likely ever will play the game. dosen't really matter if hendry has won more titles, o'sullivan is the greatest player ever. end of.

i often wondered if some better genius would come out of china

hasn't happened yet anyhow

stpaddy99 · 29-04-2014 4:34pm

tomdempsey200 wrote: »

i often wondered if some better genius would come out of china

hasn't happened yet anyhow

ding has done far better than id realised though, hes got a heck of a record and 360 centuries puts him near the top 5 centuries of all time
11 ranking wins but nearly all abroad and as we saw today so often he doesnt deliver in the UK? strange , maybe its jet lag

Pighead · 30-04-2014 10:03pm

stpaddy99 wrote: »

11 ranking wins but nearly all abroad and as we saw today so often he doesnt deliver in the UK? strange , maybe its jet lag

He actually lives in Sheffield so he definitely can't be using jet lag as an excuse for the World Championships!

The Golden Miller · 01-05-2014 1:50am

Mark Williams form, circa 2003, was unstoppable. I think for that season he hit a level no other player before him or since has hit. At his peak, especially around that period, I'd have backed him to beat Hendry and O'Sullivan at their peak any day of the week. Since it's been 11 years, I think some people forget the player he was during that period. Unstoppable, some of his pots defied logic. His potting consistency was unnerving, an for that reason I genuinely don't believe and on form O'Sullivan at his peak could live with an on form Williams at his peak. Same with Hendry

Permabear · 01-05-2014 2:16am

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Backstreet Moyes · 01-05-2014 9:52am

Permabear wrote: »

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What exactly is your definition of underperforming. By the time he was 21 he won two UK championships. Won and been runner up in the Masters. In total tournaments reached 17 finals and won 11 tournaments. He was unbelievable at a young age.

Permabear · 01-05-2014 2:49pm

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Bruthal · 01-05-2014 6:33pm

Nuts102 wrote: »

What exactly is your definition of underperforming. By the time he was 21 he won two UK championships. Won and been runner up in the Masters. In total tournaments reached 17 finals and won 11 tournaments. He was unbelievable at a young age.

He still possibly underachieved though, simply because of the ability he has. Especially up to 2 years ago.

Bruthal · 01-05-2014 7:12pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Mark Williams form, circa 2003, was unstoppable. I think for that season he hit a level no other player before him or since has hit. At his peak, especially around that period, I'd have backed him to beat Hendry and O'Sullivan at their peak any day of the week. Since it's been 11 years, I think some people forget the player he was during that period. Unstoppable, some of his pots defied logic. His potting consistency was unnerving, an for that reason I genuinely don't believe and on form O'Sullivan at his peak could live with an on form Williams at his peak. Same with Hendry

Williams played o sullivan 39 times, and won 9 of them. A slight suggestion there that your post is a bit biased for some reason.

The Golden Miller · 01-05-2014 10:12pm

Bruthal wrote: »

Williams played o sullivan 39 times, and won 9 of them. A slight suggestion there that your post is a bit biased for some reason.

Nearly all of the defeats coming in recent years when he stopped practising and dropped way down the rankings from the mid-2000's onwards when he was never the same player as anyone could tell you, or before 2000

Permabear · 01-05-2014 11:05pm

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The Golden Miller · 01-05-2014 11:53pm

Permabear wrote: »

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I said in recent years, and also before 2000, and your link back's up what I am saying. 7 of their first 8 meetings before 2000 O'Sullivan won, and thereafter it was pretty even until 2003. From 2005 onwards it was all O'Sullivan, while Mark Williams form dropped considerably going into 04/05. I just feel at his peak over this period, he hit a level not seen before or since. O'Sullivan and Higgins only started to dominate in recent years where all the big names of that period dropped off, got too old and practiced less.

Permabear · 02-05-2014 1:06am

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The Golden Miller · 02-05-2014 1:16am

Permabear wrote: »

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Mark Williams was in 3 finals in 5 years and won a triple crown in one year, half a decade at the top. In matchplay, anyone can beat anyone on any given day, and they were evenly matched, but Mark Williams was performing at a level far above O'Sullivan consistently over this period. For me, he hit a level I've never seen before or since, but stated himself he stopped practising seriously around 04/05. On his day Williams was unbeatable for me over this period. He just didn't miss. It's just my opinion, the general consensus doesn't agree to this I'm aware.

O'Sullivan has only dominated recently in the sport, where there's currently a death of talent. Higgins picked up a few handy one's too

Permabear · 02-05-2014 4:18am

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The Golden Miller · 02-05-2014 9:33am

Permabear wrote: »

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I'm aware he lost. I never said otherwise. Just the fact that this was a thread about the greatest ever, I just feel the best I ever seen was Williams during that era at his peak.

On O'Sullivan, I don't think he's got particularly stronger, I think it's more down to the fact the talent is so far a few between these days, he's now able to canter to titles. As I said, Higgins picked up 3 handy enough ones too

Pighead · 02-05-2014 10:11am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Mark Williams was in 3 finals in 5 years and won a triple crown in one year, half a decade at the top. In matchplay, anyone can beat anyone on any given day, and they were evenly matched, but Mark Williams was performing at a level far above O'Sullivan consistently over this period. For me, he hit a level I've never seen before or since, but stated himself he stopped practising seriously around 04/05. On his day Williams was unbeatable for me over this period. He just didn't miss. It's just my opinion, the general consensus doesn't agree to this I'm aware.

O'Sullivan has only dominated recently in the sport, where there's currently a death of talent. Higgins picked up a few handy one's too

In fairness you could argue Williams won a fairly handy one in 2003. Also you say Williams was performing consistently better than O'Sullivan during his peak years yet Ronnie comes out on top in the head to head between the two.

Backstreet Moyes · 02-05-2014 10:12am

Williams get's overlooked when people talk about the greatest players he definitely imo is one of the best of all time. I loved watching when i was younger. Always surprised he never get's mentioned but just drops short of Hendry and Ronnie for me.

The Golden Miller · 02-05-2014 2:24pm

Pighead wrote: »

In fairness you could argue Williams won a fairly handy one in 2003. Also you say Williams was performing consistently better than O'Sullivan during his peak years yet Ronnie comes out on top in the head to head between the two.

Head to head during Williams peak years?

The Golden Miller · 02-05-2014 2:26pm

Nuts102 wrote: »

Williams get's overlooked when people talk about the greatest players he definitely imo is one of the best of all time. I loved watching when i was younger. Always surprised he never get's mentioned but just drops short of Hendry and Ronnie for me.

It's because he stopped practising seriously to spend more time with his family. Had he kept going, it would be him chasing Hendry's seven I reckon, especially with what's on show at the moment

Permabear · 02-05-2014 3:29pm

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Pighead · 02-05-2014 9:14pm

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Head to head during Williams peak years?

Yes.

forgetfull_sam · 05-05-2014 3:26pm

never liked hendry at all but the man had nerves of steel and i believe he had a better all round game than sullivan

irs · 05-05-2014 11:09pm

I thought this years tournament was a great chance for Ronnie to show he is the best ever. His previous World Title wins have come over the likes of Dott, Carter and Hawkins who aren't really legends. The win over Higgins in 2001 was the only time he had a World Final against someone who was wasn't a surprise finalist and who was seen as being on his level. A big win over a Selby or a Robertson (although he did beat him in a QF) was something he's missed the last few times he won it. His Crucible record against Hendry, Higgins & Selby is a big mark against him.

walshb · 06-05-2014 9:48am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Mark Williams form, circa 2003, was unstoppable. I think for that season he hit a level no other player before him or since has hit. At his peak, especially around that period, I'd have backed him to beat Hendry and O'Sullivan at their peak any day of the week. Since it's been 11 years, I think some people forget the player he was during that period. Unstoppable, some of his pots defied logic. His potting consistency was unnerving, an for that reason I genuinely don't believe and on form O'Sullivan at his peak could live with an on form Williams at his peak. Same with Hendry

That season was one of the greatest in snooker history.

stpaddy99 · 06-05-2014 9:52am

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Mark Williams form, circa 2003, was unstoppable. I think for that season he hit a level no other player before him or since has hit. At his peak, especially around that period, I'd have backed him to beat Hendry and O'Sullivan at their peak any day of the week. Since it's been 11 years, I think some people forget the player he was during that period. Unstoppable, some of his pots defied logic. His potting consistency was unnerving, an for that reason I genuinely don't believe and on form O'Sullivan at his peak could live with an on form Williams at his peak. Same with Hendry

good post. williams was the best long ball potter of all time, no argument. he got over 300 centuries but wasnt interested in centuries , hed usually play a daft shot whne the frame was won to save energy . 18 major rankings wins., double world champion.. great player. not as consistent as hendry and not as long lasting but his quality and temperament at that time was awesome.

stpaddy99 · 06-05-2014 9:58am

ronnie blew his chance to become GOAT. he will have to settle for 2nd or third now.

stpaddy99 · 06-05-2014 10:00am

selby may become a dominant force now that hes broken his duck. he was utterly ruthless is demolishing ronnie yesterday

walshb · 06-05-2014 10:07am

stpaddy99 wrote: »

good post. williams was the best long ball potter of all time, no argument. he got over 300 centuries but wasnt interested in centuries , hed usually play a daft shot whne the frame was won to save energy . 18 major rankings wins., double world champion.. great player. not as consistent as hendry and not as long lasting but his quality and temperament at that time was awesome.

My issue with Mark was that he was volatile. Could be spectacular, and then play a ridiculous shot. Bit like Alex Higgins. Playing to the gallery.

TimeToShine · 06-05-2014 10:27am

stpaddy99 wrote: »

selby may become a dominant force now that hes broken his duck. he was utterly ruthless is demolishing ronnie yesterday

Ruthlessly boring!

Jokes aside, his tactics won't work nearly as well against anyone willing to play hardball. And I don't know how you could call that a demolition, it was far from it IMO.

On topic, as already mentioned Ronnie is clearly the most talented snooker player of all time. His mentality works against him but he has years at the top left in him if he wants to take it. Beating Hendry in the UK final in 93 at the age of 17 set some precedent for a great rivalry!

Backstreet Moyes · 06-05-2014 10:49am

stpaddy99 wrote: »

selby may become a dominant force now that hes broken his duck. he was utterly ruthless is demolishing ronnie yesterday

Demolishing what game did you watch. Ronnie had probably three of his worst sessions ever and they all came in a row. He basically handed Selby the title he missed chance after chance for whatever reason.

Backstreet Moyes · 06-05-2014 10:58am

I really hope Ronnie doesn't retire. Snooker is dead on it's feet as it is him retiring would be a huge blow.

walshb · 06-05-2014 11:01am

Nuts102 wrote: »

Demolishing what game did you watch. Ronnie had probably three of his worst sessions ever and they all came in a row. He basically handed Selby the title he missed chance after chance for whatever reason.

Sort of agree. I saw the clip where he missed the pink to the centre. I think it was juts pink and black on the table. Did he need to play it so hard? What was the score at that point in the frame?

TimeToShine · 06-05-2014 11:04am

walshb wrote: »

Sort of agree. I saw the clip where he missed the pink to the centre. I think it was juts pink and black on the table. Did he need to play it so hard? What was the score at that point in the frame?

Can't remember exactly but if Ronnie potted the pink he would have won, Selby cleared the pink and black and took the frame. Huge turning point and I was actually shocked for about a minute after that miss.

cack_handed · 06-05-2014 11:10am

If Ronnie is ever haunted by a shot, that pink is the one......i think the bbc tried to float the line that he thought he needed the black - which he didn't - but i believe he just wanted to slam it in with such force it would be like a knife to selby's heart. Selby's reaction when he won the frame was illuminating, it was such a huge moment

BQQ · 06-05-2014 11:16am

Nuts102 wrote: »

Demolishing what game did you watch. Ronnie had probably three of his worst sessions ever and they all came in a row. He basically handed Selby the title he missed chance after chance for whatever reason.

This is annoying.

Player x plays badly and is beaten by Ronnie. ( Ronnie is the greatest, he absolutely blew X out of the water)

Ronnie plays badly and is beaten by player x. (Ronnie is the best player ever, he just handed the game to x due to his demons :rolleyes: )

He was outplayed. There doesn't have to be some mysterious cause.
Sometimes he just doesn't play well. He's always been like that.
That's why Hendry(90 - 97) was the greatest. He didn't have off days.

Backstreet Moyes · 06-05-2014 11:22am

BQQ wrote: »

This is annoying.

Player x plays badly and is beaten by Ronnie. ( Ronnie is the greatest, he absolutely blew X out of the water)

Ronnie plays badly and is beaten by player x. (Ronnie is the best player ever, he just handed the game to x due to his demons :rolleyes: )

He was outplayed. There doesn't have to be some mysterious cause.
Sometimes he just doesn't play well. He's always been like that.
That's why Hendry(90 - 97) was the greatest. He didn't have off days.

How can you say Ronnie was outplayed. He had chances almost every frame and was missing shots you would never see him miss. Selby was also poor it was a very poor final both missed so many easy chances.

Backstreet Moyes · 06-05-2014 11:23am

TimeToShine wrote: »

Can't remember exactly but if Ronnie potted the pink he would have won, Selby cleared the pink and black and took the frame. Huge turning point and I was actually shocked for about a minute after that miss.

I am fairly sure it was at 11-11 the last frame of the session it was a massive moment.

Hendry V O'sullivan- Whos the greatest?

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