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LEAP CARD - Updated Summary of Cards/Functionality Available - February 2014

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    #152
    ronano
    Registered Users Posts: 3,136 ✭✭✭ronano


    with the student travel leap card, do you need to validate it with the driver or on the right hand side as per the old paper tickets?


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    #153
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    ronano wrote: »
    with the student travel leap card, do you need to validate it with the driver or on the right hand side as per the old paper tickets?

    That depends upon how you are using it.

    If you are using a student rambler ticket then validate on the right.

    If you are using the pay-as-you-go epurse then use the driver's machine.


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    #154
    jahalpin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭jahalpin


    I just received my Annual Short Hop Bus and Rail ticket and it was still a Dublin Bus paper smartcard and an Irish Rail smartcard (have to reuse last years IR card)

    The funny thing is that on the delivery note it says that it should be a Leap card renewal. I rang the taxsaver office and was told that the delivery note was wrong due to problems with the IT dept.


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    #155
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    jahalpin wrote: »
    I just received my Annual Short Hop Bus and Rail ticket and it was still a Dublin Bus paper smartcard and an Irish Rail smartcard (have to reuse last years IR card)

    The funny thing is that on the delivery note it says that it should be a Leap card renewal. I rang the taxsaver office and was told that the delivery note was wrong due to problems with the IT dept.

    Oh Oh.....more nonsense...this €40 Million surely was well spent !

    Presumable the entire IT Section are now dedicated to getting Cork half-way up and running,whilst leaving the 75% of Dublin ticking-over.....:rolleyes:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #156
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Well, looks like Cork is officially launched now.

    https://twitter.com/alanhealy/status/453820942209527808/photo/1


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    #157
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Well, looks like Cork is officially launched now.

    https://twitter.com/alanhealy/status/453820942209527808/photo/1


    Can't wait for 3 from now and Cork is partially useful.


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    #158
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Well, looks like Cork is officially launched now.

    https://twitter.com/alanhealy/status/453820942209527808/photo/1

    It's a bit big!


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    #159
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    It's a bit big!

    T'is the only way you'd get some impact from it sure!


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    #160
    ordinary_girl
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ordinary_girl


    lxflyer wrote: »
    That depends upon how you are using it.

    If you are using a student rambler ticket then validate on the right.

    If you are using the pay-as-you-go epurse then use the driver's machine.

    I got a 30 day student bus ticket loaded onto my student travelcard, so do I need to use the driver's machine or the one on the right?


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    #161
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    ordinary_girl wrote: »
    I got a 30 day student bus ticket loaded onto my student travelcard, so do I need to use the driver's machine or the one on the right?

    Use the remote validator (On the right) for the days you want to use the Student Rambler.

    However,if for example,you are only going to make one short Bus journey in a day,then you have the option of using credit from your Purse (If topped up).

    To do this,go to the Drivers Machine and ask for a Fare,this means you can keep that days Rambler Credit for a day you'll get fuller value from it.

    Remember too,that if you opt for Travel Purse use on your first journey,then the machine will automatically default to that for the remainder of that days travel.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #162
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Use the remote validator (On the right) for the days you want to use the Student Rambler.

    However,if for example,you are only going to make one short Bus journey in a day,then you have the option of using credit from your Purse (If topped up).

    To do this,go to the Drivers Machine and ask for a Fare,this means you can keep that days Rambler Credit for a day you'll get fuller value from it.

    Remember too,that if you opt for Travel Purse use on your first journey,then the machine will automatically default to that for the remainder of that days travel.

    What a farce. Can't the system figure this out itself?


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    #163
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭markpb


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    What a farce. Can't the system figure this out itself?

    Which bit? What Alex described seems fairly reasonable.

    The card can apply daily and weekly caps automatically but ramblers are different because they don't have to be used on consecutive days.


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    #164
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,541 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    jahalpin wrote: »
    I just received my Annual Short Hop Bus and Rail ticket and it was still a Dublin Bus paper smartcard and an Irish Rail smartcard (have to reuse last years IR card)

    The funny thing is that on the delivery note it says that it should be a Leap card renewal. I rang the taxsaver office and was told that the delivery note was wrong due to problems with the IT dept.

    Mine (issued in Dec for 1/1/14 start) is a Leap card, oddly enough.


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    #165
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    markpb wrote: »
    Which bit? What Alex described seems fairly reasonable.

    The card can apply daily and weekly caps automatically but ramblers are different because they don't have to be used on consecutive days.

    If the user has a daily rambler would it not just use that when a cap was hit and 'refund' the purse?


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    #166
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    If the user has a daily rambler would it not just use that when a cap was hit and 'refund' the purse?

    Too many checks will disrupt what the card and validator can do. It only retains 5 items in the history on the card itself, so how many actions it can do at once is going to be limited.

    Personally, I think the rambler as a ticket is not needed now. With fare capping in place, the fare caps should be lowered in line to what a day costs you on the 30 day rambler ticket. The idea of having to pay a lot up front for the ticket loaded onto the card is a bit stupid really, when the money goes to Dublin Bus either way.


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    #167
    Seaswimmer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭Seaswimmer


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Use the remote validator (On the right) for the days you want to use the Student Rambler.

    However,if for example,you are only going to make one short Bus journey in a day,then you have the option of using credit from your Purse (If topped up).

    To do this,go to the Drivers Machine and ask for a Fare,this means you can keep that days Rambler Credit for a day you'll get fuller value from it.

    Remember too,that if you opt for Travel Purse use on your first journey,then the machine will automatically default to that for the remainder of that days travel.

    Hi AlekSmart.

    I assume you can ask the driver to take a Rambler ticket as well..

    For example last week one of the kids with a Leap student Rambler went into town at 20:15 so it used 2.50 from the ePurse and didnt take a day from the Rambler however he came back on the last bus so again it took 2.50. In a situation like this the Rambler would have been better value. Its just a pity that the system cant decide which is better value rather than the user.

    But only a minor gripe. Student Leap appears to be working well on Dublin Bus..


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    #168
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Seaswimmer wrote: »
    Hi AlekSmart.

    I assume you can ask the driver to take a Rambler ticket as well..

    For example last week one of the kids with a Leap student Rambler went into town at 20:15 so it used 2.50 from the ePurse and didnt take a day from the Rambler however he came back on the last bus so again it took 2.50. In a situation like this the Rambler would have been better value. Its just a pity that the system cant decide which is better value rather than the user.

    But only a minor gripe. Student Leap appears to be working well on Dublin Bus..



    That feature should be made clear to the public - it appears it has been to the drivers.


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    #169
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Seaswimmer wrote: »
    Hi AlekSmart.

    I assume you can ask the driver to take a Rambler ticket as well..

    For example last week one of the kids with a Leap student Rambler went into town at 20:15 so it used 2.50 from the ePurse and didnt take a day from the Rambler however he came back on the last bus so again it took 2.50. In a situation like this the Rambler would have been better value. Its just a pity that the system cant decide which is better value rather than the user.

    But only a minor gripe. Student Leap appears to be working well on Dublin Bus..

    Yes Seaswimmer,The Driver can do a manual cancellation of a Rambler day.
    The cut-off for the remote validator defaulting to the €2.50 Flat Fare is 20.00 Hrs,up until that a Rambler Day would automatically be deducted.
    I feel it's reasonable enough for the most part,but,as in your case no mass usage system can satisfy ALL requirements.

    That being said,the continuing baloney of retaining parallell cash-fares is needless.
    If the decision has been taken that ITS is the dominant Public Transport Payment method,then,for heaven's sake,lets get on with it.

    Attempting to persevere with 16 individual fare denominations on a Dublin Bus Ticket Machine is pure lunacy in terms of streamlined and efficient passenger handling.

    I suspect that what IS occupying the NTA's mind,is the dawning realization that some REAL incentivization of Leapcard has to be undertaken IF the percentage of "Empty" Leapcards is not to become a threat.

    As yet,I have not seen any stats as to the empty/operational Leapcard ratio,but I see it increasing on the platform daily !


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #170
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Too many checks will disrupt what the card and validator can do. It only retains 5 items in the history on the card itself, so how many actions it can do at once is going to be limited.

    Personally, I think the rambler as a ticket is not needed now. With fare capping in place, the fare caps should be lowered in line to what a day costs you on the 30 day rambler ticket. The idea of having to pay a lot up front for the ticket loaded onto the card is a bit stupid really, when the money goes to Dublin Bus either way.

    They've a massive database run these checks on the server side in the evening.


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    #171
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭markpb


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    They've a massive database run these checks on the server side in the evening.

    That would get complicated very quickly. Even if the database did realise that someone should have used a daily ticket, it now needs to tell the ticket to refund value to the purse and mark one of the tickets as used. It can't get that information to buses, only to Luas, Dart and Payzone so bus passengers would have to go to one of those to collect the refund.

    Imagine a situation where the system decides that on Thursday I shouldn't have used the purse and the daily ticket was better value. I use that daily ticket (the last one on my card) on Friday and it's Friday evening before I go to a Payzone agent to collect my refund. Except now I can't because the ticket it thinks I should have used on Thursday has been used on Friday.

    And even ignoring edge cases like that, imagine someone trying to figure out what they were charged for. The transaction history would show several transactions on Thursday, several refunds another day and my usage of a daily ticket on Thursday might not pop up for several days.

    It would be much simpler to remove the daily ticket and let capping solve the problem automatically. This is what they're doing right now and it solves a lot of problems except for Ramblers which, for most people, will work just fine.


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    #172
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Yes Seaswimmer,The Driver can do a manual cancellation of a Rambler day.
    The cut-off for the remote validator defaulting to the €2.50 Flat Fare is 20.00 Hrs,up until that a Rambler Day would automatically be deducted.
    I feel it's reasonable enough for the most part,but,as in your case no mass usage system can satisfy ALL requirements.

    That being said,the continuing baloney of retaining parallell cash-fares is needless.
    If the decision has been taken that ITS is the dominant Public Transport Payment method,then,for heaven's sake,lets get on with it.

    Attempting to persevere with 16 individual fare denominations on a Dublin Bus Ticket Machine is pure lunacy in terms of streamlined and efficient passenger handling.

    I suspect that what IS occupying the NTA's mind,is the dawning realization that some REAL incentivization of Leapcard has to be undertaken IF the percentage of "Empty" Leapcards is not to become a threat.

    As yet,I have not seen any stats as to the empty/operational Leapcard ratio,but I see it increasing on the platform daily !

    There's two elements to this Alek.

    First of all, right now Dublin Bus' financial situation is such that I don't think anyone is going to implement a fares model that could risk a significant reduction in farebox revenue. There would be a serious risk of that with any significant simplification of fares.

    When things become more financially secure, then I suspect that you will see a change in the fare structure.

    Secondly, abolishing cash fares would be something that you would consider when the product has been in place for some time - not after a short period. Slowly but surely more people will migrate, but I don't think that simply forcing them straight away will work - added to that there would be a large negative jolt to farebox revenue too, which is something best managed over time.


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    #173
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Too many checks will disrupt what the card and validator can do. It only retains 5 items in the history on the card itself, so how many actions it can do at once is going to be limited.

    Personally, I think the rambler as a ticket is not needed now. With fare capping in place, the fare caps should be lowered in line to what a day costs you on the 30 day rambler ticket. The idea of having to pay a lot up front for the ticket loaded onto the card is a bit stupid really, when the money goes to Dublin Bus either way.



    The rambler ticket is a way of rewarding regular customers - I certainly don't think it should be abolished.


    I think capping is fine for daily/weekly purposes.


    Again lowering fare caps means lower farebox revenue - that is something that really is unaffordable right now.


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    #174
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    lxflyer wrote: »
    The rambler ticket is a way of rewarding regular customers - I certainly don't think it should be abolished.


    I think capping is fine for daily/weekly purposes.


    Again lowering fare caps means lower farebox revenue - that is something that really is unaffordable right now.

    It doesn't reward regular customers, it allows someone who has more money to be able to buy a more expensive ticket, which in the longer run is cheaper for them day to day. But not everyone can buy the more expensive ticket. You've essentially got 2 functions of usage with Dublin Bus doing the same thing, yet charging someone more up front to get the cheaper one.

    Sure if the 1 day rambler ticket is being discontinued due to the 1 day fare cap, why is there even a need for the 30 days ticket?

    It completely does away with the question of, how does someone use the rambler or the credit, along with any wasted time of driver interaction if the rambler doesn't fit someone's need on the day. It should be made simply to use and more approachable for those not used to Dublin Bus, throwing in a few "If's" doesn't achieve that.
    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    They've a massive database run these checks on the server side in the evening.

    It all has to be done on the card though, as mentioned by MarkPB above, the services receive outdated data from the previous day.

    So if you do something on Monday that's due a refund, it won't be seen until Tuesday, then not sent out until Wednesday. Everything you are suggesting would be at least 2 days behind.


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    #175
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,262 ✭✭✭markpb


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Sure if the 1 day rambler ticket is being discontinued due to the 1 day fare cap, why is there even a need for the 30 days ticket?

    The 30 day rambler can't be handled by capping because it's not 30 consecutive days, it's up to the customer to decide which 30 days they want to use it for.


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    #176
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    markpb wrote: »
    The 30 day rambler can't be handled by capping because it's not 30 consecutive days, it's up to the customer to decide which 30 days they want to use it for.

    That's what I meant though.

    Each one day, of that 30 days ticket is about 2 euro less than the cap.


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    #177
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,588 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It doesn't reward regular customers, it allows someone who has more money to be able to buy a more expensive ticket, which in the longer run is cheaper for them day to day. But not everyone can buy the more expensive ticket. You've essentially got 2 functions of usage with Dublin Bus doing the same thing, yet charging someone more up front to get the cheaper one.

    Sure if the 1 day rambler ticket is being discontinued due to the 1 day fare cap, why is there even a need for the 30 days ticket?

    It completely does away with the question of, how does someone use the rambler or the credit, along with any wasted time of driver interaction if the rambler doesn't fit someone's need on the day. It should be made simply to use and more approachable for those not used to Dublin Bus, throwing in a few "If's" doesn't achieve that.



    If someone is prepared to put more cash up front, then I think it is not unreasonable to expect some form of discount - that's the same with any business, and has been the case for period passes for time immemorial.


    With the 30 day rambler DB gets the benefit of improved cash flow and the user gets cheaper travel.


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    #178
    wiz569
    Registered Users Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭wiz569


    Quick question guys,

    If putting a student 5 day rambler ticket on a student travel card for the very first time,do i also need to put €5 credit on as well?

    This is what my son was told this morning when he went to get his rambler ticket,obviously not realizing they have now been switched to the leap card,

    He has never used his student travel card as a leap card before,just as a form of identification

    Cheers


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    #179
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    wiz569 wrote: »
    Quick question guys,

    If putting a student 5 day rambler ticket on a student travel card for the very first time,do i also need to put €5 credit on as well?

    This is what my son was told this morning when he went to get his rambler ticket,obviously not realizing they have now been switched to the leap card,

    He has never used his student travel card as a leap card before,just as a form of identification

    Cheers

    Hi is the student card an actuall leap card?

    The €5 works as the deposit so if he were to put cash and use the card it works so lets say he only has 10cent left on the card he will still be able to charge a journey to get him home or where ever he intends to travel.

    e.g €2.50 fare with 10cent left means when topped up again €2.40 will be deducted from the new credit added.

    When the rambler is loaded onto the card he can use the smart card reader at the door on the right hand side.

    It's a good idea to have some credit because if the rambler runs out and is forgotten to be updated with a new one and also if he were to only need to use the bus once that day say for example heading out and would be returning by taxi or what ever.


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    #180
    wiz569
    Registered Users Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭wiz569


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Hi is the student card an actuall leap card?

    The €5 works as the deposit so if he were to put cash and use the card it works so lets say he only has 10cent left on the card he will still be able to charge a journey to get him home or where ever he intends to travel.

    e.g €2.50 fare with 10cent left means when topped up again €2.40 will be deducted from the new credit added.

    When the rambler is loaded onto the card he can use the smart card reader at the door on the right hand side.

    It's a good idea to have some credit because if the rambler runs out and is forgotten to be updated with a new one and also if he were to only need to use the bus once that day say for example heading out and would be returning by taxi or what ever.

    Yes its a leap card m8,I think all student travel cards are now tbh,

    Anyway went down to a different shop with him and they just stuck the rambler ticket on his leap card with no questions regarding needing an extra €5 credit,although I did advise him to get some anyway,

    Thanks for taking the time to answer m8,its appreciated :)


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    #181
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Hi is the student card an actuall leap card?

    The €5 works as the deposit so if he were to put cash and use the card it works so lets say he only has 10cent left on the card he will still be able to charge a journey to get him home or where ever he intends to travel.

    e.g €2.50 fare with 10cent left means when topped up again €2.40 will be deducted from the new credit added.

    When the rambler is loaded onto the card he can use the smart card reader at the door on the right hand side.

    It's a good idea to have some credit because if the rambler runs out and is forgotten to be updated with a new one and also if he were to only need to use the bus once that day say for example heading out and would be returning by taxi or what ever.

    You dont pay for a deposit with a student travel card.


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