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Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Chisler2


    No need for response Syd.........I've gone for the option of 'Unsolicited Further Information' rather than the slog and expense of putting together a completely new application. This forum is an invaluable resource and the information and advice is much appreciated. Thanks to all.........and ye're all invited to the house-warming!


  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Chisler2


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    the first thing to do is to phone the planner and ask, off the record, if they will accept unsolicited further information with a "slight" design change.

    so do, some dont.

    if they accept the altered FI, then worse case sceanario is that they will request you to readvertise. turning a 4 week process to an 8 week one.

    Syd - our posts crossed. Bingo - F.I. it is!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    Renewing home insurance at the moment and was wondering, if the house burned down in the morning would planning be required to replace the structure.

    If that was the case would the new structure come under the new building control legislation and if it did I'd then need to increase the build costs to allow for this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Garage conversion query

    I have a purpose built freestanding garage and I would like to know whether I could convert it to an annex (self-contained)

    (I hope this is the right section)


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    hexosan wrote: »
    Renewing home insurance at the moment and was wondering, if the house burned down in the morning would planning be required to replace the structure.

    If that was the case would the new structure come under the new building control legislation and if it did I'd then need to increase the build costs to allow for this.

    Question 1 - yes, planning permission would be required.

    Question 2 - a good one! In theory I would say yes, as even if you were re-build, like for like (no extension), the reason you have to go for planning in the first place is that in planning terms, if the house burns down, the use as a house ceases to exist (as the house becomes uninhabitable) so that's why you need to planning to reinstate. In terms of the Building Control, you would have to consider it a new house (I think?).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭hexosan


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    Question 1 - yes, planning permission would be required.

    Question 2 - a good one! In theory I would say yes, as even if you were re-build, like for like (no extension), the reason you have to go for planning in the first place is that in planning terms, if the house burns down, the use as a house ceases to exist (as the house becomes uninhabitable) so that's why you need to planning to reinstate. In terms of the Building Control, you would have to consider it a new house (I think?).

    Thanks for the reply.

    It's an interesting one that I'm sure most people wouldn't consider.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,141 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    hexosan wrote: »
    Renewing home insurance at the moment and was wondering, if the house burned down in the morning would planning be required to replace the structure.

    If that was the case would the new structure come under the new building control legislation and if it did I'd then need to increase the build costs to allow for this.

    1 yes

    2 yes, as it would be considered a new house build. Not only would you have to factor in extra for regs, but also demolition and disposal costs after fire.

    Bruce Shaw do these calculations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Chisler2


    <snip>

    Mod: Off-topic. This isn't the appropriate thread.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    Not sure if this is a planning issue or not, but here goes.


    Between myself and the neighbour, there's a wall that isn't exactly in the correct position, its about a metre too far in on my side. We both agree about where it should be, so there's no dispute or anything.


    Last year, a fella came around mapping the street for the Ordinance Survey. He mapped what was physically there. We showed him the problem with the wall and asked could he correct it on the OS map, as we would be moving it soon anyway. He said he couldn't correct it, but he would record both the way it was currently, AND the way it should be, and when the wall is moved, we have to fill in some form and the correction will be done.


    My question is, did anyone ever hear of this form? He told me what its called, but I cant remember. Should have written it down!


  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭lostinashford


    newmug wrote: »
    Not sure if this is a planning issue or not, but here goes.


    Between myself and the neighbour, there's a wall that isn't exactly in the correct position, its about a metre too far in on my side. We both agree about where it should be, so there's no dispute or anything.


    Last year, a fella came around mapping the street for the Ordinance Survey. He mapped what was physically there. We showed him the problem with the wall and asked could he correct it on the OS map, as we would be moving it soon anyway. He said he couldn't correct it, but he would record both the way it was currently, AND the way it should be, and when the wall is moved, we have to fill in some form and the correction will be done.


    My question is, did anyone ever hear of this form? He told me what its called, but I cant remember. Should have written it down!

    I'm interested in this also, we ran into some difficulties with Wicklow CoCo last year as the map they use for planning applications is at least 15 years out of date and didn't reflect the actual shape of our site now (although the changes was part of a previous planning applications conditions as required by the CoCo)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I would move the wall asap if I were you, as Ireland works heavily on a "what's on the ground" basis. If there is no dispute with your neighbour then it makes even more sense to do this while relations are good.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,571 ✭✭✭newmug


    Aard wrote: »
    I would move the wall asap if I were you, as Ireland works heavily on a "what's on the ground" basis. If there is no dispute with your neighbour then it makes even more sense to do this while relations are good.



    Should have clarified, its moved now. But the map is still the old way, and I'm looking about this form the OS man told me to complete once the wall is corrected. Any ideas?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,087 ✭✭✭The Ayatolla


    I'm contemplating purchasing a house. It has large area to the left of the house, possibly room for an extension of some sort. Here is a rough draft of my plan.

    It will likely be a bedroom or alternative living room.

    I've attached a Google image overhead of the house.

    Also I have a rough layout of what I have in mind.

    Would I need planning permission for this? One storey extension. Roughly 6m x 3.5m

    2lbkv0h.png

    2i73b01.png

    Any help appreciated


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,141 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat



    Would I need planning permission for this? One storey extension.

    Any help appreciated

    Yes. As its to the side it requires permission.

    Exempted extensions can only exist completely to the rear of a dwelling


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    corktina wrote: »
    Garage conversion query

    I have a purpose built freestanding garage and I would like to know whether I could convert it to an annex (self-contained)

    (I hope this is the right section)

    any views and also what if there was no kitchen / bathroom provided.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,087 ✭✭✭The Ayatolla


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Yes. As its to the side it requires permission.

    Exempted extensions can only exist completely to the rear of a dwelling

    Cheers.

    A garage counts as exempted development though ya ? Even at the side?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    corktina wrote: »
    any views and also what if there was no kitchen / bathroom provided.
    you need planning

    get a local arch to advise on what's feasible


  • Registered Users Posts: 457 ✭✭Sinead Mc1


    Feel free to correct me if this is more a legal issue but all advise would be greatly appreciated.
    After almost 2 years of ignoring warnings/enforcement letters from council my neighbour had his day in court today. His extension was built, without planning, about 8 years ago but the wheels were in motion regarding the 7 year rule, so we're fine there. When asked about his lack of representation (solicitor) he stated he didn't need it as the house is not his. The judge then adjourned it for a month.
    He lives in this house and carried out the works. Only thing we can think now is he transferred it into his son/daughters name.
    Does this mean that all them warnings/enforcement s don't apply?
    Basically is it enough that the property was brought to councils attention within 7 years or does it have to be addressed to right person.
    I'm at the end of my wits. Council telling us nothing. Fed up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    A person can take a civil enforcement case under Section 160 of the Planning and Development Act. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2000/en/act/pub/0030/sec0160.html

    Disclaimer: I don't believe this is legal advice, just quoting the legislation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭loremolis


    Sinead Mc1 wrote: »
    Feel free to correct me if this is more a legal issue but all advise would be greatly appreciated.
    After almost 2 years of ignoring warnings/enforcement letters from council my neighbour had his day in court today. His extension was built, without planning, about 8 years ago but the wheels were in motion regarding the 7 year rule, so we're fine there. When asked about his lack of representation (solicitor) he stated he didn't need it as the house is not his. The judge then adjourned it for a month.
    He lives in this house and carried out the works. Only thing we can think now is he transferred it into his son/daughters name.
    Does this mean that all them warnings/enforcement s don't apply?
    Basically is it enough that the property was brought to councils attention within 7 years or does it have to be addressed to right person.
    I'm at the end of my wits. Council telling us nothing. Fed up.


    Try a land registry search. That will tell you who owns the property and the date of ownership.

    If the council have taken enforcement proceedings and he's transferred the property (very unlikely) in order to try to avoid those proceedings then the Judge will take a dim view of that.

    Also, it's not as a simple matter to transfer a property these days, even to a son or daughter. There are tax implications and legal costs. Chances are that he may never have been the owner or he lied.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭cb7


    Just received a letter from the council about our conditions that were stated in our planning permission. These include cattle grid and trees that we have not got around to doing yet. They are planning on inspecting again in April. Can I delay this? Planning granted about 5-6 years ago. At the moment the finances are not great and trees are the last thing on my mind. Can they take me to court to enforce this?


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,141 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    cb7 wrote: »
    Just received a letter from the council about our conditions that were stated in our planning permission. These include cattle grid and trees that we have not got around to doing yet. They are planning on inspecting again in April. Can I delay this? Planning granted about 5-6 years ago. At the moment the finances are not great and trees are the last thing on my mind. Can they take me to court to enforce this?

    yes,
    you have five years to comply with conditions.

    If you havent complied you are in breach of a legal agreement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Brave Harvey


    Do you need planning to replace an existing hedge front boundary with a wall. This would be to replace an existing planted hedge, garden type, not indigenous hedge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭jython98


    I am currently waiting on the final grant of permission(4 weeks) in case if any appeals from the neighbors, but I have already talked with all my neighbors, they are happy enough, can I go ahead with the build?


  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Brave Harvey


    jython98 wrote: »
    I am currently waiting on the final grant of permission(4 weeks) in case if any appeals from the neighbors, but I have already talked with all my neighbors, they are happy enough, can I go ahead with the build?

    No you will need a commencement notice which will notify the building authorities you are about to build within two weeks and you will need I think a final grant with this. And I think lodging a commencement notice now needs a whole lot of extra drawings and information but may not apply to your Planning Permission. In that it may only apply to planning looked for after the March new regulations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭jython98


    No you will need a commencement notice which will notify the building authorities you are about to build within two weeks and you will need I think a final grant with this. And I think lodging a commencement notice now needs a whole lot of extra drawings and information but may not apply to your Planning Permission. In that it may only apply to planning looked for after the March new regulations.

    Thanks, the extension is about 10sm so, the new build regulation doesn't apply. what would happen if I start now? as it's quite hard to pay mortgage and rent at the same time :)


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    jython98 wrote: »
    Thanks, the extension is about 10sm so, the new build regulation doesn't apply. what would happen if I start now? as it's quite hard to pay mortgage and rent at the same time :)

    its against the law. That's all you need to know. And the conversation ends here as we do not discuss breaking the law here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭begod


    My partners parents were going to build a house on a site beside their own house but were refused planning permission on the basis that there are too many septic tanks in the area.Percolation test was fine.

    They have now offered the site to us to build on.

    I spoke to an architect and I said would have no problem putting a modern bio-filter unit instead of a septic tank to get us through planning.

    He said that to get planning my partners parents may have to replace their septic tank with a bio-filter unit as well.

    My partners father has no interest in doing this and would not like his own property changed at all in anyway and also I can't afford to put in two bio-filter units.

    I haven't spoken to the architect yet but we have half decided to go ahead with a plan to just install a bio-filter unit ourselves on our new build and hope that this will get us planning permission.

    So in a nutshell, planners say there is too much crap in the area, we say we will put a fancy modern unit, but will this be enough?

    Any opinions on if this is the right course of action or anyone with any experience of same?

    On tight budget and very worried that we wont get planning.

    Thanks in advance.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,141 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    begod wrote: »
    My partners parents were going to build a house on a site beside their own house but were refused planning permission on the basis that there are too many septic tanks in the area.Percolation test was fine.

    They have now offered the site to us to build on.

    I spoke to an architect and I said would have no problem putting a modern bio-filter unit instead of a septic tank to get us through planning.

    He said that to get planning my partners parents may have to replace their septic tank with a bio-filter unit as well.

    My partners father has no interest in doing this and would not like his own property changed at all in anyway and also I can't afford to put in two bio-filter units.

    I haven't spoken to the architect yet but we have half decided to go ahead with a plan to just install a bio-filter unit ourselves on our new build and hope that this will get us planning permission.

    So in a nutshell, planners say there is too much crap in the area, we say we will put a fancy modern unit, but will this be enough?

    Any opinions on if this is the right course of action or anyone with any experience of same?

    On tight budget and very worried that we wont get planning.

    Thanks in advance.

    Your budget should be based on what is required to obtain permission.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    begod wrote: »
    My partners parents were going to build a house on a site beside their own house but were refused planning permission on the basis that there are too many septic tanks in the area.Percolation test was fine.

    They have now offered the site to us to build on.

    I spoke to an architect and I said would have no problem putting a modern bio-filter unit instead of a septic tank to get us through planning.

    He said that to get planning my partners parents may have to replace their septic tank with a bio-filter unit as well.

    My partners father has no interest in doing this and would not like his own property changed at all in anyway and also I can't afford to put in two bio-filter units.

    I haven't spoken to the architect yet but we have half decided to go ahead with a plan to just install a bio-filter unit ourselves on our new build and hope that this will get us planning permission.

    So in a nutshell, planners say there is too much crap in the area, we say we will put a fancy modern unit, but will this be enough?

    Any opinions on if this is the right course of action or anyone with any experience of same?

    On tight budget and very worried that we wont get planning.

    Thanks in advance.
    as syd said and without meaning to sound harsh: If you can't afford a measly two WAste treatment units, there's not much chance of you building a house.


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