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When might Eircom to enable vectoring on their eFibre/VDSL service?

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  • 31-01-2014 8:08pm
    #1
    KeRbDoG
    Registered Users Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭


    Just starting a thread to see when we might actually see vectoring being enabled by Eircom on their eFibre/VDSL service.

    I've heard February but has anyone seen/heard anything more solid than that?


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    #2
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I have been checking Google regularly but there is nothing new since the press release last Sept. Where did you hear Feb?


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    #3
    MyPeopleDrankTheSoup
    Registered Users Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭MyPeopleDrankTheSoup


    Just curious, is 70Megabit/s not good enough for ya? I don't need more speed anyway.


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    #4
    jca
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,585 ✭✭✭jca


    You can never get enough of a good thing. ..


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    #5
    KeRbDoG
    Registered Users Posts: 4,227 ✭✭✭KeRbDoG


    georgiecasey wrote: »
    Just curious, is 70Megabit/s not good enough for ya? I don't need more speed anyway.

    Not everyone gets near the full possible speed. Also, good to squeeze every last drop of speed out of the connection when their TV service takes a chunk of bandwidth.
    Maybe you should send Eircom a note asking them not to ever increase your broadband service to save them a few pennies ;)


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    #6
    MichealKenny
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭MichealKenny


    Although technically feasible at the moment vectoring is incompatible with local-loop unbundling but future standard amendments could bring a solution.

    That's a problem, it is how Vodafone and Magnet use Eircom's VDSL network, if it is not compatible, I doubt they'll do it.


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    #7
    wheresmybeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭wheresmybeaver


    For my own purposes anything above 25mb is overkill. But its that lovely upload that i cant get enough of.. For streaming my videos when we're out of the house. i get about 12mb up right now, would be nice to get that bounced to about 20mb with vectoring.


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    #8
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    MichealKenny wrote: »
    That's a problem, it is how Vodafone and Magnet use Eircom's VDSL network, if it is not compatible, I doubt they'll do it.

    No they don't, Vodafone and Magnet aren't using VDSL LLU. They are using Eircom Bitstream local access.

    Vodafone/Magnet/etc. are required to use modems compatible with vectoring.
    georgiecasey wrote: »
    Just curious, is 70Megabit/s not good enough for ya? I don't need more speed anyway.

    Not everyone gets 70mb/s, it depends on distance from the exchange. Some users get as little as 18mb/s. Then sign up to eVision and it uses 10mb/s per HD channel you watch/record.

    100mb/s will help make IPTV more reasonable.

    Also vectoring might allow Eircom to service customers further out then the 1km limit from a cab. Which would be very welcome for more rural customers.


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    #9
    MyPeopleDrankTheSoup
    Registered Users Posts: 2,718 ✭✭✭MyPeopleDrankTheSoup


    bk wrote: »
    Not everyone gets 70mb/s, it depends on distance from the exchange. Some users get as little as 18mb/s. Then sign up to eVision and it uses 10mb/s per HD channel you watch/record.

    100mb/s will help make IPTV more reasonable.

    Also vectoring might allow Eircom to service customers further out then the 1km limit from a cab. Which would be very welcome for more rural customers.

    i thought vectoring depends even more on distance from cabinet and line quality. so if they can't get their full speed, vectoring won't help. i could be wrong though.


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    #10
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,687 ✭✭✭jd


    georgiecasey wrote: »
    i thought vectoring depends even more on distance from cabinet and line quality. so if they can't get their full speed, vectoring won't help. i could be wrong though.

    TZ-Typical-vectoring-gains-Fig-1.jpg

    http://www2.alcatel-lucent.com/techzine/boosting-vdsl2-bit-rates-with-vectoring/


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    #11
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    From that graph it looks like vectoring will bring 70Mbit out to 650- 700m or so which would be nice.


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    #12
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yes, speed does fall off the further out you get.

    But as you can see from the above graph, it should extend the range of those who can get 20mb/s out by a couple hundreds of meters, perhaps even as much as 500 meters extra.

    That might not sound like much, but that might be the difference between many people in rural areas being on a 5km long ADSL line getting 1mb/s and now getting 20mb/s.


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    #13
    ElNino
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭ElNino


    bk wrote: »
    Not everyone gets 70mb/s, it depends on distance from the exchange. Some users get as little as 18mb/s. Then sign up to eVision and it uses 10mb/s per HD channel you watch/record.

    eircom wouldn't allow someone with that little bandwith to sign up to eVision.


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    #14
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    ElNino wrote: »
    eircom wouldn't allow someone with that little bandwith to sign up to eVision.

    Actually they do. The 18mb/s is the stable profile for people on the 25mb/s standard profile who sign up for eVision.


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    #15
    swoofer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,427 ✭✭✭swoofer


    Am I right that for vectoring you need 4 wires connected and that will mean an engineers visit as my connection has only 2 wires connected. I could connect 2 more myself as 4 are used at the NTU end. This should have been done as part of the rollout it would have saved a second visit but then again that would be too simple.


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    #16
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,687 ✭✭✭jd


    GBCULLEN wrote: »
    Am I right that for vectoring you need 4 wires connected and that will mean an engineers visit as my connection has only 2 wires connected. I could connect 2 more myself as 4 are used at the NTU end. This should have been done as part of the rollout it would have saved a second visit but then again that would be too simple.

    Nope. You are thinking of bonding.


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    #17
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    KeRbDoG wrote: »
    Just starting a thread to see when we might actually see vectoring being enabled by Eircom on their eFibre/VDSL service.

    I've heard February but has anyone seen/heard anything more solid than that?

    Starting at the end of Feb and continuing into March or so I've been told


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    #18
    swoofer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,427 ✭✭✭swoofer


    thank you, bonding does that give even faster speeds?? and if I get vectoring I will be well happy ie exstatic, over the moon etc. to go from 6 mb to over 70mb plus in a year would be awesome.

    What will happen to pings with vectoring? I get 35 or so at the moment.


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    #19
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,779 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    bealtine wrote: »
    Starting at the end of Feb and continuing into March or so I've been told

    I asked Kerbdog where he heard it was February but he never told me (I'm assuming he). Can you tell me who told you Feb/March?


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    #20
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    GBCULLEN wrote: »
    thank you, bonding does that give even faster speeds?? and if I get vectoring I will be well happy ie exstatic, over the moon etc. to go from 6 mb to over 70mb plus in a year would be awesome.

    What will happen to pings with vectoring? I get 35 or so at the moment.

    Shouldnt effect latency. You'll just get a nice little speed bump.


    Does anyone know if users on a non rate adaptive profile will see the effect of it when it goes live or would they have to be bumped up one profile?


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    #21
    Danny Boy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭Danny Boy


    http://www.eircomwholesale.ie/Fibre_Rollout/

    Eircom are trialling it - look at the home working video at that link


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    #22
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,831 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    I asked Kerbdog where he heard it was February but he never told me (I'm assuming he). Can you tell me who told you Feb/March?

    its what they're telling the industry.


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    #23
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,687 ✭✭✭jd


    GBCULLEN wrote: »
    thank you, bonding does that give even faster speeds?? and if I get vectoring I will be well happy ie exstatic, over the moon etc. to go from 6 mb to over 70mb plus in a year would be awesome.

    Bonding would give faster speeds
    http://www.jdsu.com/ProductLiterature/dsltech-wp-tfs-tm-ae.pdf
    Dunno if it'll be done.

    BTW ITU are looking at the G.FAST standard
    http://www.extremetech.com/computing/172990-1000mbps-over-copper-telephone-lines-itu-begins-work-on-g-fast-successor-to-dsl


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    #24
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    jd wrote: »
    Bonding would give faster speeds
    http://www.jdsu.com/ProductLiterature/dsltech-wp-tfs-tm-ae.pdf
    Dunno if it'll be done.

    A bonded and vectored line could possibly give 200mb/s

    However I think they will skip that and go to FTTH next.
    jd wrote: »
    BTW ITU are looking at the G.FAST standard
    http://www.extremetech.com/computing/172990-1000mbps-over-copper-telephone-lines-itu-begins-work-on-g-fast-successor-to-dsl

    G.FAST is basically almost FTTH. It only works over very short distances, less then 100 meters. So the idea behind it is that they run fibre as far as the last distribution point (e.g. the telephone pole outside your house) and use Fibre from there.

    The advantage over FTTH, is that they would save on the cost and potential complexity of bringing Fibre right into the persons home.


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    #25
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,687 ✭✭✭jd


    bk wrote: »
    G.FAST is basically almost FTTH. It only works over very short distances, less then 100 meters. So the idea behind it is that they run fibre as far as the last distribution point (e.g. the telephone pole outside your house) and use Fibre from there.

    The advantage over FTTH, is that they would save on the cost and potential complexity of bringing Fibre right into the persons home.

    I thought Gfast could to about 250m. Also the remote devices are reverse powered, which has other advantages too..


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    #26
    Chris The Hacker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 149 ✭✭Chris The Hacker


    bk wrote: »
    A bonded and vectored line could possibly give 200mb/s

    Would vectored-bonding double someone's attainable net data rate?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86580198&postcount=48

    As you can see, he gets 137Mb. So, I would reckon he would easily exceed 200Mb.


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    #27
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    jd wrote: »
    I thought Gfast could to about 250m. Also the remote devices are reverse powered, which has other advantages too..

    It can, but at 250m is gives you just 150mb/s, not much better then Vectored VDSL and so not really worth doing for this.

    Take a look at the graph on this article:

    http://www2.alcatel-lucent.com/techzine/the-numbers-are-in-vectoring-2-0-makes-g-fast-faster/

    You will see that it falls off very quickly after 150M (where you get 400mb/s) and you need sub 100m to get 1Gb/s speed, which is really what they are looking for here.

    The reverse powered remote device thing isn't actually G.FAST, it is the separate standard Fibre to the Distribution Point (FTTdp). However most people expect FTTdp to be used in conjunction with G.Fast.

    Basically there is little point in doing G.Fast unless you are almost doing FTTH.


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    #28
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,687 ✭✭✭jd


    bk wrote: »

    Basically there is little point in doing G.Fast unless you are almost doing FTTH.
    I don't actually disagree with you there, but it might save quite a few of the headaches that you may get from actually doing FTTH


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    #29
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,590 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    jd wrote: »
    I don't actually disagree with you there, but it might save quite a few of the headaches that you may get from actually doing FTTH

    Oh I agree, I'm not saying they shouldn't do G.Fast, just that there is no point in doing it without also doing FTTdp.

    What I'm saying is that G.Fast isn't really an upgrade you can just make to the existing VDSL cabs, that in order to take advantage of G.Fast, you have to bring fibre a lot closer to peoples homes.

    I expect they will do FTTH and G.Fast/FTTdp at the same time, using whichever technology makes more sense for a particular building.


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    #30
    Freddy Smelly
    Registered Users Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Freddy Smelly


    for those of ye that bought draytec vdsl2+ modems you need to start badgering draytec for a firmware update cos vectoring rollout starts later this month... no vectoring support means your modem wont connect when vectoring gets turned on at your cab.

    the 2860n's current firmware currently DOES NOT support vectoring...


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    #31
    wheresmybeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭wheresmybeaver


    For people currently using their eircom or Vodafone vdsl modems in bridging mode, will we have to do anything to be ready for vectoring? I heard that a firmware upgrade would be pushed out when vectoring is enabled and I'd be worried that this would block the bridging mode we're currently enjoying the use of..


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