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€65m on Irish road signs

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    #182
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    keeponhurling wrote: »
    For the people who are annoyed that we are replacing the signs, what life span do you think is reasonable for a sign?
    .
    Signs should last about 20 years, but it depends on the paint used on them. Some of the brown tourist signs along the (new) M6 have already had to be replaced as they’d faded too much.

    As it is the M6 (opened in 2008) between Athlone & Kinnegad is already on its third set of signs,
    the first set were replaced when the road was changed from N6 to M6,
    the second set when they decided to change the rules on positioning & content on the signs.
    Chances are the third set will be changed to accommodate the new style.


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    #183
    Mrs Garth Brooks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Mrs Garth Brooks


    Where are they going to get 65 million from. And would it not be better maybe spending it on our roads or perhaps street lighting on dark dangerous roads where people has been killed.


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    #184
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,577 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Can somebody change the title to say " actually, 65m won't be spent on road signs - OP was mistaken"?


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    #185
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭mackerski


    keeponhurling wrote: »
    I genuinely don't know how this got into a debate about Irish language, some people at even the mention of it fly off the handle.

    While linguistic mudslinging probably isn't a useful basis on which to discuss the proposals, it can't be denied that the catalyst for this whole proposal is desires of the Irish language lobby. Any action has an equal but opposite reaction...


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    #186
    keeponhurling
    Registered Users Posts: 5,129 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    mackerski wrote: »
    While linguistic mudslinging probably isn't a useful basis on which to discuss the proposals, it can't be denied that the catalyst for this whole proposal is desires of the Irish language lobby. Any action has an equal but opposite reaction...

    But are they not replacing bilingual signs with newer bilingual signs?

    It's not like we had English only signs before and the Irish lobby insist on Irish being added


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    #187
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    keeponhurling wrote: »
    But are they not replacing bilingual signs with newer bilingual signs?

    It's not like we had English only signs before and the Irish lobby insist on Irish being added

    A change was lobbied for by a special interests group and was approved.

    Now people who disagree with the special interests group are unhappy about it.

    Hardly surprising stuff.


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    #188
    Poll Dubh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,145 ✭✭✭Poll Dubh


    It would be great to see these signs in place before we mark 100 years of independence.


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    #189
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    keeponhurling wrote: »
    So they are replacing bilingual signs with newer bilingual signs.

    What are people getting annoyed about, they want them replaced with English or Irish only signs? I think bilingual is a good compromise, and they do this in many countries where there are two languages.

    For the people who are annoyed that we are replacing the signs, what life span do you think is reasonable for a sign?

    For those who think 65million is a lot to replace every sign in the country, what figure do they think is reasonable, and how did they arrive at this?

    Seems like some people are just complaining for complaining sake.

    The OP's article said that they just finished replacing all the signs. And that it had cost €65 million.
    While no signs will be replaced in the short-term – the National Roads Authority (NRA) has just spent €65m re-signing the road network – the new ones may be used when needed.

    Pro irish people are saying that it should be done because irish is great etc.
    The Anti Irish (well, maybe not anti as more apathetic-irish) are saying it's a waste of money.

    Thing is it's not going to happen. they're just talking about introducing the new signs as replacements for ones that get broken, vandalised etc. People are arguing about something that isn't the case.

    For what it matters, I think the new ones look good, but I'd like to see the colours changed. I think the irish language is more visible and easier to read (might just be me) and since the vast majority of drivers will be looking at the english part, it makes sense to have that as the more visible. That's just from a safety point of view.


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    #190
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Grayson wrote: »
    The OP's article said that they just finished replacing all the signs. And that it had cost €65 million.



    Pro irish people are saying that it should be done because irish is great etc.
    The Anti Irish (well, maybe not anti as more apathetic-irish) are saying it's a waste of money.

    Thing is it's not going to happen. they're just talking about introducing the new signs as replacements for ones that get broken, vandalised etc. People are arguing about something that isn't the case.

    For what it matters, I think the new ones look good, but I'd like to see the colours changed. I think the irish language is more visible and easier to read (might just be me) and since the vast majority of drivers will be looking at the english part, it makes sense to have that as the more visible. That's just from a safety point of view.

    Shamelessly stealing from my own thread over in Motors on this:
    Kaiser2000 wrote:
    .. remembering that every Irish speaker has fluent English anyway, in a country with scarce resources (one which is borrowing to keep the lights on), there are things of far more importance and relevance that need addressing at the moment (such as the HSE crisis) than meddling with perfectly serviceable road signs for no tangible benefit

    This topic is to do with how the proposed changes affect the legibility and clarity of road signs that people will be passing at 120 km/h (and at night).
    If the only reason for the change is to give greater/more prominence to a language that the majority cannot understand then that is not a good enough justification.

    Also, introducing these on a "phased"/"as-needed" basis just means that you'll end up with a mess of conflicting design on the same stretch of road, making things even MORE unclear.


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    #191
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Poll Dubh wrote: »
    It would be great to see these signs in place before we mark 100 years of independence.
    From what are you measuring that? Many would say we haven't yet achieved independence.


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    #192
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    From what are you measuring that? Many would say we haven't yet achieved independence.

    'Many' are wrong.


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    #193
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    'Many' are wrong.
    Funnily enough I agree.


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    #194
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,739 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    'Many' are wrong.

    I don't know.. he has a point.

    First Dev and co sold it off to the Church who abused generations of Irish people, robbed them blind through "donations" for one of the richest organisations on the planet, and kept the social development of the country back for decades.

    Then when the grip of the Church finally loosened in the late 80s onwards what happened? We sold our much cherished "Independence" off to the EEC/EU in return for some "cheap" cash and increasing removal of our ability to govern ourselves to the point now where our "leaders" are just mouthpieces and rubber-stamps for our "betters" in Europe.

    Doesn't sound so "Independent" to me!


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    #195
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    I don't know.. he has a point.

    First Dev and co sold it off to the Church who abused generations of Irish people, robbed them blind through "donations" for one of the richest organisations on the planet, and kept the social development of the country back for decades.

    Then when the grip of the Church finally loosened in the late 80s onwards what happened? We sold our much cherished "Independence" off to the EEC/EU in return for some "cheap" cash and increasing removal of our ability to govern ourselves to the point now where our "leaders" are just mouthpieces and rubber-stamps for our "betters" in Europe.

    Doesn't sound so "Independent" to me!
    Independence is a myth, we're members of the international community and globalisation has been the prominent ideology since WWII.


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    #196
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    I don't know.. he has a point.

    First Dev and co sold it off to the Church who abused generations of Irish people, robbed them blind through "donations" for one of the richest organisations on the planet, and kept the social development of the country back for decades.

    Then when the grip of the Church finally loosened in the late 80s onwards what happened? We sold our much cherished "Independence" off to the EEC/EU in return for some "cheap" cash and increasing removal of our ability to govern ourselves to the point now where our "leaders" are just mouthpieces and rubber-stamps for our "betters" in Europe.

    Doesn't sound so "Independent" to me!

    I know what you are saying, and I expected someone to come along and write something like the above but (aside from the fact that Poll Dubh was specifically referring to independence from Britain) for all intents and purposes we are a free nation with the some of the highest living standards in the world. Small countries with open market economies will always in some way have to accept the influence of their larger neighbours.

    You are right about the church of course but remember that Ireland was one of the most religious and Catholic countries in the world and the people were mostly happy at the time to accept its privileged position in Irish society. As for the leaders being mouthpieces for the EU, that's a popular one since the bailout deal was signed but it's nothing more than a sound bite!

    Back OT, we already have bilingual signs which I think are already perfectly legible and to change them would them to the proposed ones would be a joke!


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    #197
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭mackerski


    keeponhurling wrote: »
    But are they not replacing bilingual signs with newer bilingual signs?

    It's not like we had English only signs before and the Irish lobby insist on Irish being added

    The signs we have today arose out of studies (many of them UK-based, so yes, we diverged from them) of how best to lay out road signs. It was a broad brief driven by the needs of road users.

    This experiment is driven by the specific desires of one lobby that has no expertise in the are of transportation. It isn't clear that the planned experiments are as comprehensively informed as last time round. Indeed, based on the mock-up published by the minister himself, I am not convinced that usability was on the requirements list.

    So let me turn your point around - we already have bilingual signs, why would we need different ones? At least we know what the ones we have were based on.


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    #198
    superelliptic
    Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭superelliptic


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    As has been said they're ugly, cluttered, garish and it's harder to see the English name.


    I saw a picture of them on the Irish Times website - they look grand :rolleyes:




    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-road-signs-with-parity-for-irish-may-be-introduced-1.1587458


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    #199
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    mackerski wrote: »
    So let me turn your point around - we already have bilingual signs, why would we need different ones? At least we know what the ones we have were based on.

    the problem is with the law introduced which requires the Irish and english to be the same size and equal status etc

    as with many of our problems, bad law is at the heart of it


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    #200
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,158 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    Shamelessly stealing from my own thread over in Motors on this:

    Actually I stole from my post back on page 7.


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    #201
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    superelliptic wrote: »
    I saw a picture of them on the Irish Times website - they look grand :rolleyes:




    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-road-signs-with-parity-for-irish-may-be-introduced-1.1587458
    Garish. :puke:


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    #202
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    I hate Bilingual road signs. I hate them here and I hate them in Wales, where I also do a bit of driving. So my solution would be to introduce 'Holographic overlay signs' which display in one language or the other as you drive past the sign, but never with the two languages displayed at the same time.

    I find bilingual signs too messy and cluttered, specially when driving at speed on motorways.


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    #203
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    Riskymove wrote: »
    the problem is with the law introduced which requires the Irish and english to be the same size and equal status etc

    as with many of our problems, bad law is at the heart of it

    That law doesn't seem to exist (yet) -

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/new-road-signs-with-parity-for-irish-may-be-introduced-1.1587458

    "The introduction of a new design would also require legislative change as existing road sign legislation stipulates that road signs must give priority to English place names."


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    #204
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    rawn wrote: »
    Does anyone else see this as a massive waste of time and money?

    Given that the article its self says ''These would be new signs that have to go up anyway so there would be no additional cost involved''

    I would have to say no, not a waste of money in any conceviable way.


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    #205
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    kneemos wrote: »
    Most of them are already way too small and cluttered.Adding Irish would make them. Indecipherable.

    Its not about adding Irish, the Irish is already on them, but if you are going to have Irish on the signs, which we already have, you may as well make it legible rather than the force inclined mess we have now.


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    #206
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    rawn wrote: »
    My understanding of that is... they just spent €65m on new signs? And they confused drivers even more by cramming Irish all over them, without testing out a few signs first.


    Your understanding is flawed, the signs the 65 million was spent on used the existing format that has been in use for at least 20 years. The signs with the proposed new format have not gone up anywhere yet and the 65 million has nothing to do with them.


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    #207
    Carlos Orange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭Carlos Orange


    An Coilean wrote: »
    Its not about adding Irish, the Irish is already on them, but if you are going to have Irish on the signs, which we already have, you may as well make it legible rather than the force inclined mess we have now.

    Or take it off altogether.


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    #208
    An Coilean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,285 ✭✭✭An Coilean


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    It's about safety. The exact reason we have smaller print for Irish names as things stand.

    Any evidence for that or is it true because you say so?


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    #209
    onemorechance
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭onemorechance


    rawn wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/green-light-for-plan-to-make-road-signs-more-irish-29736922.html



    Does anyone else see this as a massive waste of time and money? I still cannot understand why we cling to this dead language so fiercely. We live in a country where people either speak both Irish and English, or just English. We don't need Irish translations everywhere. Don't get me started on the pointlessness of mandatorily teaching it in schools :rolleyes: Surely it's time we stopped fighting to keep the Irish language relevant?

    We could also save money by joining the United Kingdom.

    We could get rid of the office of the President and sell or lease out the Áras, although Liz might decide to use it as her pad rent free!

    The Dáil could be amalgamated into Stormount and the Seanad done away with completely, even though a recent referendum showed the majority of people who could be bothered to vote decided that they wanted it to remain.

    The army, navy, air corp could be combined into the British armed forces. So much money could be saved by ridding Ireland of anything which which is distinctly Irish. I'm sure the OP has so much more examples of how we are wasting money on being Irish. Let's hear them!

    Irish literature is the oldest vernacular literature in Western Europe, wouldn't it be great if we were the generation that finally rid out nation of this costly burden which has been inflicting text written in Irish on the people of the island since the 4th century. Great idea OP! We need more visionaries like you! :)


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    #210
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    never mind the irish/english, what about the hedges growing over them and cleaning a few of them....no point in fighting over what's wrote on the signs if we won't be able to read it anyway


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    #211
    onemorechance
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭onemorechance


    Boombastic wrote: »
    never mind the irish/english, what about the hedges growing over them and cleaning a few of them....no point in fighting over what's wrote on the signs if we won't be able to read it anyway

    Good dose of weedkiller would solve that issue once and for all, no more costly maintenance issues for the local councils! All that wasted money just so keep CO2 down. Hedges, trees and Irish, at this rate we'll be out of recession in no time!


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