Cattle on land, no rent paid

bbam · 02-10-2013 4:03pm

iverjohnston wrote: »

First of all, when did if put the cattle onto the land?
You mention that your late father allowed him use the land to alleviate the effects of the hard spring we have just had. The cattle owner may well claim that your father give it to him for the year . Either way, they should be gone off the land by November 1st. in the interest of good land husbandry.
If you are friendly with a solicitor, or indeed are dealing or about to deal with one to settle your fathers estate, they Will be eager to help get this guy off the land, and the case concluded, cause this is when they get paid .

Common sense stuff there.

KatyMac · 02-10-2013 4:38pm

Solicitor all the way. It's amazing how a letter like that thru the door can change an attitude.
But are there such things nowadays as Pounds that the animals can be taken off the land? Would the Guards be able to put OP in contact with the like?

munkus · 02-10-2013 4:48pm

bbam wrote: »

Wow.
Threads like this bring out alot of keyboard warriors and mad advice. I wonder if any have ever dealt with a difficult neighbour ever.

OP has had a rough enough time without electrocuting, shooting, setting dogs on or running any mans stock to the road. This is just stoooping to the same primevial level as the idiot neighbour.

Do it right.

If you opened a gate, who's to say you did it? You don't have to drive them out onto the road.

Jesus, I get sick when I hear stories like this. Scumbag like this gives us all a bad name.

mf240 · 02-10-2013 4:53pm

munkus wrote: »

If you opened a gate, who's to say you did it? You don't have to drive them out onto the road.

Jesus, I get sick when I hear stories like this. Scumbag like this gives us all a bad name.

I would take them back to him end of. Turning them out on the road is not right, they could be the cause of someone getting killed.

iverjohnston · 02-10-2013 5:06pm

Now we do not know what sheds etc are on the land, if any. But I would recommend you walk the land with an independent 3rd party and take note of all fixtures and fittings. Gates, barriers, feeders, any machinery etc. Take photos or film as proof, and try and show that days news paper in the photo as proof of when picture was taken.
Amazing what can go missing when you have a client like this fellow leaving the farm.
A local farm which was let after the owner died was missing a Massey 35x and a ride-on lawn mower when the year was up.
Remember old old machinery can be surprisingly valuable.

lakill Farm · 02-10-2013 6:27pm

at the end of the way its the landowners place, no lease and he is trespassing.

Lock the gates, and write to him and tell him he can collect his property on x day at x time only

I had similar case in January 2010 and at the time our inhouse solicitor at work told me to do that. You have to give them a time and date to collect there goods. I won against Wh co co and I had them eating out of my hand.

My saying to the county engineer and county manager was " so they are my gates" -yes , "and its my property" - yes, "so I can lock them when I want" - yes . "so whats your problem.

Amazing what they agreed to do to get back there property. After that call the department and tell them the cattle are illegal on the property

litecoors · 02-10-2013 6:48pm

Plough the fields.

knownothing · 02-10-2013 7:03pm

bbam wrote: »

Talk to a solicitor.
He just needs putting in his place.
Keep face to face contact to a minimum as he's obvious unreasonable.

i agree totally. solicitor , solicitor, solicitor and a good one ,who is versed in this type of trouble . dont be afraid to stand up for what is rightfully yours. best of luck.

knownothing · 02-10-2013 7:13pm

bbam wrote: »

Talk to a solicitor.
He just needs putting in his place.
Keep face to face contact to a minimum as he's obvious unreasonable.

i agree totally. solicitor solicitor . solicitor and get a good one, who is well versed in this type of bull****. dont be afraid to stand up for what is rightfully yours. sounds like you have a bullyboy on your hands let the law take the corners off him. best of luck.

crackcrack30 · 02-10-2013 8:05pm

Contact sol.
Pin cattle into smallest field or pin with road access and lock other gates with chains.
Turn off water....

moy83 · 02-10-2013 8:43pm

This man is a fair swine to abuse your late fathers generosity , and laugh in your face after . He is hoping for a rise out of you but dont take the bait . There is alot less stress in handing it over to a well versed solicitor and just talk to him as he will know the ropes .

bbam · 02-10-2013 8:50pm

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Contact sol.
Pin cattle into smallest field or pin with road access and lock other gates with chains.
Turn off water....

crack crack indeed :rolleyes:

dar31 · 02-10-2013 9:23pm

crackcrack30 wrote: »

Contact sol.
Pin cattle into smallest field or pin with road access and lock other gates with chains.
Turn off water....

Had a few unwanted horses last year no move on them for a few days even after a few calls, knew well who owned them
Fenced them in to a corner with no water and put the word back out that they had been locked up with no feed or water for 3days (3 hours more like) brother rang that evening to say they were been moved ... By the owner who said he was moving them for a relation

iverjohnston · 02-10-2013 9:48pm

Had 2 horses appeared in a field on an out farm. Still there 5 days later. Asked around and soon discoverer who owned them , and discovered he had a bit of a reputation. Got directions to the house, and before setting sail , rang local Sarg. to let him know the score.
His words were "Oh I know him, he can be tricky. Give me a ring if you need help"
Got it settled OK, but
Can you imagine trying to make a call while some head-the-ball had you by the throat !

Farmer Pudsey · 03-10-2013 2:33am

Send him a registered letter to remove his cattle and only his cattle on a certain date 7days after receipt of letter. You will get a receipt date from PO. If he has not removed them contact the department and the Co council . Notify him that you intend to impound any cattle on the property after that. Keep you letter clear and unambiguous. If he replies or his solicitor replies ignore and notify council of date you are delivering to pound. Your biggest problem will be in getting someone to deliver them however you or a relative may well have a way of doing same. If not notify Co council that you will have them ready and insist that they collect.

The hardest part will be to be thicker than him. The council and department will try to fob you off. Lock them into a pen for Council to collect. There are loads of old unrepealed laws in Ireland so look them up.

Remember his solicitor letter is ignorable unless he gets a court order to prevent you of removing his cattle to pound.

In other words have as much if not more neck than him

Dont be daft · 03-10-2013 9:41pm

ezra_pound wrote: »

Yes they are enforceable however the land was given to the farmer for nothing. There was no quid pro quo. For this reason it is not an enforceable contract. It would appear that it was partly done on account of past mutual assistance. This cannot be legally accepted as consideration or quid pro quo. Past consideration is not adequate. I.e. I can't contractually agree to give you use if my field for something you have already done.

Your right in theory, but in practice farmland is leased in yearly blocks.
So if he was in the farm by agreement at the start of the year its almost a certainty to the point of a presumption that the agreement was for the year.
Although the consideration was probably mutual assistance, and of course it cannot continue, this wouldn't necessarily breach the contract because it was probably envisaged that this may only continue for a certain time.
So while the consideration may have taken place in the past it isn't clear that it took place before or after the agreement.

I suppose what I'm saying is there's enough there to claw together at least an argument that there was a binding verbal agreement.

Now while the OP states that the farmer breached this agreement by placing to many cattle on the farm that may not be fundamental enough to rescind the contract (if one exists)
It may even be the case, despite all the comments here, that the farmer is in fact legally entitled to be on the land (although I doubt it meself)

Its not clear cut, there are a lot of facts missing and the bottom line is the OP needs professional help.

Manoffeeling · 04-10-2013 8:04pm

Any update.

Massey10 · 04-10-2013 8:36pm

how much land and how many cattle are on this farm .

Patrickheg · 06-10-2013 7:41am

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Send him a registered letter to remove his cattle and only his cattle on a certain date 7days after receipt of letter. You will get a receipt date from PO. If he has not removed them contact the department and the Co council . Notify him that you intend to impound any cattle on the property after that. Keep you letter clear and unambiguous. If he replies or his solicitor replies ignore and notify council of date you are delivering to pound. Your biggest problem will be in getting someone to deliver them however you or a relative may well have a way of doing same. If not notify Co council that you will have them ready and insist that they collect.

The hardest part will be to be thicker than him. The council and department will try to fob you off. Lock them into a pen for Council to collect. There are loads of old unrepealed laws in Ireland so look them up.

Remember his solicitor letter is ignorable unless he gets a court order to prevent you of removing his cattle to pound.

In other words have as much if not more neck than him

OP doesn't sound like a farmer so the above would be very hard to see through plus the other farmer doesn't seem to take him serious so you can take it that he will call his bluff leaving you with trying to round cattle up and arrange for another party to remove which would be a lot harder than it sounds especially if it's a small local community where other people won't want to get involved in what they would perceive as a 'non local' versus 'local' disagreement.

I would advise a solicitors letter myself.

gingerfarmer · 06-10-2013 3:28pm

Hi
That's a lot of reply's, there are currently 30 cattle all together but it was only meant to be 8-10 cows. These cows then calved and then he placed a few heifers and a bull on the land. The land he is on is an out farm of around 40-50 acres and is across from he's out farm but all his gates are padlocked from my side. (This is off a very busy road) My mother planed to rent it to another neighbor who has offered to rent it (he lives beside the out farm), currently he keeps an eye on the land for us. These cattle arrived last November, then calved in the spring my main problem is that all the females are pregnant again and the numbers are going to increase again. My sisters an I want them gone before this happens.

Thank you,

Farmer Pudsey · 06-10-2013 4:23pm

Patrickheg wrote: »

OP doesn't sound like a farmer so the above would be very hard to see through plus the other farmer doesn't seem to take him serious so you can take it that he will call his bluff leaving you with trying to round cattle up and arrange for another party to remove which would be a lot harder than it sounds especially if it's a small local community where other people won't want to get involved in what they would perceive as a 'non local' versus 'local' disagreement.

I would advise a solicitors letter myself.

And do you think a solicitors letter will make this man take OP serious. Like I said before a solicitors letter is of no use with out a court order if this man ignores it. A court order costs money and I would not like to be trying to recover same from him.

OP you just have to grow a pair of balls sorry for the expression. The only thing bullies understand is if you step into there space and if it costs them money and will continue to cost them money. Notify him if he fails to remove load up even if he arrives in scene, Notify the Gardai of your intention in case he calls as you are taking to pound. It is a civil case and you notify them out of courtesy and usually it means that if they arrive they know the story not just his. If he try's to interfere on the day call the Gardaí. I am afraid there is no easy solution it dealing with bullies is always the same.

Patrickhed what happens if this man ignores the solicitors letter you still have to do as above. If he owns land next to the farm you will always have issue unless you put him in his place. There is no difference between you sending him a letter and a solicitor just it is a few hundred euro cheaper. I have seen too much of this type of thing in my day and at the end of the day he need to be put in his place. Every time you see an animal of his on your place you cannot be running to a solicitor.

Massey10 · 06-10-2013 7:00pm

gingerfarmer wrote: »

Hi
That's a lot of reply's, there are currently 30 cattle all together but it was only meant to be 8-10 cows. These cows then calved and then he placed a few heifers and a bull on the land. The land he is on is an out farm of around 40-50 acres and is across from he's out farm but all his gates are padlocked from my side. (This is off a very busy road) My mother planed to rent it to another neighbor who has offered to rent it (he lives beside the out farm), currently he keeps an eye on the land for us. These cattle arrived last November, then calved in the spring my main problem is that all the females are pregnant again and the numbers are going to increase again. My sisters an I want them gone before this happens.

Thank you,

Ask the farmer who wants to pay for the land would he deal with it the con man if you rent the land to him .I bet he would be more able to deal with it .If it was me i would put his cattle back into his own land even if it meant cutting his lock on gate .

Manoffeeling · 06-10-2013 7:35pm

Jesus my patience is starting go run out with ya. Ring the solicitor and guard in morn to move the cattle off your land onto his or the pound, end of.

IT IS YOUR LAND NOT HIS.

keep going · 06-10-2013 7:43pm

gingerfarmer wrote: »

Hi
That's a lot of reply's, there are currently 30 cattle all together but it was only meant to be 8-10 cows. These cows then calved and then he placed a few heifers and a bull on the land. The land he is on is an out farm of around 40-50 acres and is across from he's out farm but all his gates are padlocked from my side. (This is off a very busy road) My mother planed to rent it to another neighbor who has offered to rent it (he lives beside the out farm), currently he keeps an eye on the land for us. These cattle arrived last November, then calved in the spring my main problem is that all the females are pregnant again and the numbers are going to increase again. My sisters an I want them gone before this happens.

Thank you,

Listen there is no easy way to deal with this .he will never take the animals off the land.if you dont feel comfortable dealing with yourself , instruct a solicitor this week and follow his advice if you want to be 100% legit but act now.even if it costs you a bit of money now dont worry about but act now.

mf240 · 06-10-2013 7:51pm

The only way to deal with this guy is take them back, even if this means unloading them in front of his house if all the field gates are locked.

Solicitor will take to long and cost a fortune if he calls your bluff.

Bullys only target the weak. Stand up and be counted or lie down and be mounted.

iverjohnston · 06-10-2013 7:56pm

Perhaps we could have a boardsie farm walk on your land ! A good day out for those of us who didn't make it to the ploughing. Day out, small bit of herding, bit of grub and a chat.

Manoffeeling · 08-10-2013 7:40pm

Well

lakill Farm · 08-10-2013 9:19pm

iverjohnston wrote: »

Perhaps we could have a boardsie farm walk on your land ! A good day out for those of us who didn't make it to the ploughing. Day out, small bit of herding, bit of grub and a chat.

Im free Saturday morning.

.

Boards v the fecker farmer

iverjohnston · 08-10-2013 10:18pm

lakill Farm wrote: »

Im free Saturday morning. .

Boards v the fecker farmer

Could take in the Sheep Sales afterwards! Never been.

moy83 · 18-10-2013 9:27pm

Any update ginger ?

paddyc310 · 18-10-2013 10:16pm

Make sure you do nothing to his cattle or property and do not think of putting his cattle on the road,,get your solisitor that will be dealing with your fathers estate to give you advice and get that grabber bastof your land or get advice from any solisitor a strong letter will not cost that much. The country is full of chancres like that and I seen different cases ,,they don't have much luck,,,,theyoftendont be long until they only need a small plot,,,good luck hope you do not have to much trouble

gingerfarmer · 20-10-2013 10:14pm

Hi everybody,

went to the solicitor the other day he said to call back in a week cause he wouldn't be the most knowledgeable on farm law. He is going too look into it and told me to call back on Tuesday so that we can go through things.

cavandown · 21-10-2013 5:46am

Keep us posted. Ba****ds like him need to be put back under the stone the crawled out from

handlemaster · 24-11-2013 12:02pm

OP where are you now with this ?

Joe the Plumber · 24-11-2013 1:49pm

The dept would be very interested in this I'm sure.

A perfect excuse to stop payments to this man.

Or is there more to the story, we're the animals transferred to the deceased's herd number in order to keep stocking rate above minimum?

Solicitors are fine but often haven't a clue about farming and that side of things.

I'd say you need a close friend or neighbour who is well up on farming who you can trust to sort it out so that you don't score an own goal in terms of payments and compliance.

gingerfarmer · 03-12-2013 8:16pm

Hi

Sorry for keeping you all waiting. Most of its been sorted the lawyer sent out the letter but the cows didn't move. So he rang the department about it just to check things. Turns out the cows are all under my late dads herd number, so I can now do what ever I want with them, They are also considering reducing his herd number limits with visits from the department every 3 months. Once the department started investigating him the tax people got on his case cause his name was flagged when it got sent through the system so he owes a pile of tax as well. And my mum has decided to go to court for him trespassing in the field multiple times.

I suppose he got what was coming to him

moy83 · 03-12-2013 8:20pm

gingerfarmer wrote: »

Hi

Sorry for keeping you all waiting. Most of its been sorted the lawyer sent out the letter but the cows didn't move. So he rang the department about it just to check things. Turns out the cows are all under my late dads herd number, so I can now do what ever I want with them, They are also considering reducing his herd number limits with visits from the department every 3 months. Once the department started investigating him the tax people got on his case cause his name was flagged when it got sent through the system so he owes a pile of tax as well. And my mum has decided to go to court for him trespassing in the field multiple times.

I suppose he got what was coming to him

Well that worked out well for you , how many cattle were there ? Its a wonder he didnt tell you they were in the fathers herd no.
Has he approached you since all this has happened ?

Sharpshooter82 · 03-12-2013 8:51pm

gingerfarmer wrote: »

Hi

Sorry for keeping you all waiting. Most of its been sorted the lawyer sent out the letter but the cows didn't move. So he rang the department about it just to check things. Turns out the cows are all under my late dads herd number, so I can now do what ever I want with them, They are also considering reducing his herd number limits with visits from the department every 3 months. Once the department started investigating him the tax people got on his case cause his name was flagged when it got sent through the system so he owes a pile of tax as well. And my mum has decided to go to court for him trespassing in the field multiple times.

I suppose he got what was coming to him

Sounds like he got what he deserved

Zoo4m8 · 03-12-2013 9:12pm

gingerfarmer wrote: »

Hi

Sorry for keeping you all waiting. Most of its been sorted the lawyer sent out the letter but the cows didn't move. So he rang the department about it just to check things. Turns out the cows are all under my late dads herd number, so I can now do what ever I want with them, They are also considering reducing his herd number limits with visits from the department every 3 months. Once the department started investigating him the tax people got on his case cause his name was flagged when it got sent through the system so he owes a pile of tax as well. And my mum has decided to go to court for him trespassing in the field multiple times.

I suppose he got what was coming to him

Excellent! Way to go....

lakill Farm · 03-12-2013 9:20pm

gingerfarmer wrote: »

Hi

Sorry for keeping you all waiting. Most of its been sorted the lawyer sent out the letter but the cows didn't move. So he rang the department about it just to check things. Turns out the cows are all under my late dads herd number, so I can now do what ever I want with them, They are also considering reducing his herd number limits with visits from the department every 3 months. Once the department started investigating him the tax people got on his case cause his name was flagged when it got sent through the system so he owes a pile of tax as well. And my mum has decided to go to court for him trespassing in the field multiple times.

I suppose he got what was coming to him

make sure when your selling the cattle you declare the sales. They will be watching you also now.

J.O. Farmer · 03-12-2013 9:34pm

If the cattle are in your dads herd number what's happening with them. I assume that means they are legally yours and it's a very expensive lesson.
It's not unknown for slightly dodgy situations to exist whereby animals are placed in herds to maintain stocking rates. While I'm not suggesting for a second that this is the case here it is an example of what can go wrong.

Manoffeeling · 03-12-2013 9:43pm

Well done. Slow and steady wins the race.

lakill Farm · 03-12-2013 9:58pm

get the cards and sell them out of the place asap

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

If the cattle are in your dads herd number what's happening with them. I assume that means they are legally yours and it's a very expensive lesson.
It's not unknown for slightly dodgy situations to exist whereby animals are placed in herds to maintain stocking rates. While I'm not suggesting for a second that this is the case here it is an example of what can go wrong.

J.O. Farmer · 03-12-2013 10:06pm

Lucky the neighbour let the bull in. Them cows should be worth more as springers than strippers.

Markcheese · 04-12-2013 9:31am

Wow, and all because yr man insisted on being a pr1ck,

Bizzum · 04-12-2013 9:36am

Who has the cards for the cattle I wonder? It could be a job getting them?

Manoffeeling · 04-12-2013 9:45am

Bizzum wrote: »

Who has the cards for the cattle I wonder? It could be a job getting them?

No. The other will have to cooperate. The dept will reissue anyway.

freedominacup · 04-12-2013 10:00am

Manoffeeling wrote: »

No. The other will have to cooperate. The dept will reissue anyway.

They'd only love if this made news TBH as it would put people off this type of sharp practice.

Result ginger. You might end up farming yet:D.

onyerbikepat · 04-12-2013 10:18am

Confused I am. So these 30 cattle were your Dad's all along? Did this guy ever own them? Was he saying that he owned them? It doesnt make sense.

lakill Farm · 04-12-2013 10:43am

onyerbikepat wrote: »

Confused I am. So these 30 cattle were your Dad's all along? Did this guy ever own them? Was he saying that he owned them? It doesnt make sense.

Be careful whats answered here as there is a chance this will go to the court and imagine lossing it over an answer on here

Cattle on land, no rent paid

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