Cattle on land, no rent paid

gingerfarmer

Hi everybody,

I have done some research on this but have come up with nothing. My father passed away about six months ago due to an long term illness, before this he was a full time farmer. When he first became ill he gave up the farm and let one of his friends use the the land rent free because of the hard winter to rear his cattle. When my father passed he began to move more cattle on to the land than the agreed amount that my father and he came too. We have told him to remove his cattle so that we could rent the land to someone else but he refuses to remove them. We also offered to rent it to him but he just walked away laughing. He feels he has an entitlement to the land as my family aren't going to use it i.e neither of me or two sisters are farmers, he has done some odd jobs on the farm like my father did on his farm. Does anybody happen to know what i can do?????

Thank you

bbam

Talk to a solicitor.
He just needs putting in his place.
Keep face to face contact to a minimum as he's obvious unreasonable.

Welruc

Open the gate and send the cattle on their way, let yer man know so he can take them from there.

Some cheek of him

Manoffeeling

A land grabbing bastard. Contact solicitor and department. If he has cattle on land that is not on his maps, then he maybe up a stick.


Best of luck.

jersey101

Some friend he was to your father. Get a solicitor to send him a letter. That might make him wet his knickers and move off if not the take it further

Sharpshooter82

report him to the guards if all else fails the cheeky b*****d

iverjohnston

Talk to a local Guard about the situation. Tell the Guard that you are getting the cattle moved to the pound , and that you are just letting the Gardai know the score in case the owner of the animals should turn violent or commit a breach of the peace. The Guard may have a word with the owner to set him straight and to avoid any such occurrence . But you Will have to carry out your threat, to show him you are no pushover.

Sharpshooter82

iverjohnston wrote: »

But you Will have to carry out your threat, to show him you are no pushover.

Def agree with this otherwise you will have bother from him in the future. is he a neighbour of the land by any chance

pk82

People never cease to amaze.

I doubt if AGS (Gaurds) will do anything - unless you know one (?)

I believe trespass is a civil matter unless he is trespassing with intent to commit an offence, which is unlikely.

Thus being a civil matter you can sue him for the loss of rent you would get if the field were available to rent.

Also be careful here as to whose name the land is registered to. That person can only start proceedings. In the event of the owner being deceased it may be the exectors or administrators of the estate who have authority to start proceedings.

Consult a good solicitor - perhaps the threat of being sued for rent will be enough to make him move on

He will also advise as to how to eject him from land.

Most of these types are chancers and soon buckle if you stand up to them

bob charles

be very slow on interfering or moving the animals as you would be interfering with his property. You could get into allot more trouble than you think. Department of Ag wont want to know about the case as it a civil matter. I would give him verbal notice that if animals arent removed by a point in time you will then get a solicitor to serve him notice and take matters from there. There is a local farm 2 miles from me where there is 3 years rent due and owners of the land are finding it very difficult to do anything with the tenant. Thread carefully

pk82

I would also reiterate the sentiment expressed here that it is unwise to do anything to the livestock.

I could imagine that were one for exampe to let them out onto a road and it could be proven that one did this and subsequently a beast is killed or causes an accident, one could be in serious trouble.

The situation is stressful enough without going form bad to worse

6480

if he has no written agreement like a lease he s no right to be there

Sharpshooter82

if you told him that he cant come onto the land and you have the right to say so and he ignores this then it becomes aggravated trespass which goes from a civil matter to a criminal matter.

sea12

6480 wrote: »

if he has no written agreement like a lease he s no right to be there

Cheeky fcuker. Get a solicitor involved straight away. Never mind giving him a verbal warning he will just laugh in your face again. Contact dept of ag and tell them cattle are on your property without your permission. As someone said if he doesn't have the land on maps it will cause him difficulties.

Not a nice situation to be in. Best of luck with it.

pk82

6480 wrote: »

if he has no written agreement like a lease he s no right to be there

That is not quite true. Verbal agreements do exist and are enforceable BUT the ability to prove same is very difficult (unless for example a witness were present when the verbal agreement were made - but still shaky)

pk82

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

if you told him that he cant come onto the land and you have the right to say so and he ignores this then it becomes aggravated trespass which goes from a civil matter to a criminal matter.

I do not think aggravated trespass is known to Irish law.

I stand to be corrected - Have you some reference for this?

Sharpshooter82

pk82 wrote: »

That is not quite true. Verbal agreements do exist and are enforceable BUT the ability to prove same is very difficult (unless for example a witness were present when the verbal agreement were made - but still shaky)

wont stand up in the legal system

pk82

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

wont stand up in the legal system

That is the point: very hard for him (the guy taking the land) to prove.

Sharpshooter82

pk82 wrote: »

I do not think aggravated trespass is known to Irish law.

I stand to be corrected - Have you some reference for this?

thats why you can shoot people on your property now if you feel threatened

Sharpshooter82

pk82 wrote: »

That is the point: very hard for him (the guy taking the land) to prove.

esp if the other party involved has passed

tomwaterford

Are you working.If so give him until you get home from work to get them out,if they not out turn them out yourself.and lock the gate....the longer he is in,the harder he will be to get out IMO

nip this in the bud.and best of luck OP....I hate this kind of messing:mad:

Sharpshooter82

here is a good previous thread for ya OP
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055265252

Dont be daft

Sharpshooter82 wrote: »

thats why you can shoot people on your property now if you feel threatened

That scenario involves criminal trespass. Trespass with the intention of committing a crime.

What the OP is talking about is civil trespass and could only become a criminal offence if it was to commit a crime or in breach of a court order.
All the farmer has to do is claim a verbal agreement with the deceased and then proving civil trespass becomes difficult.

OP, solicitor is your best avenue now I'm afraid.
Depending on the circumstances your solicitor can do a few things ranging from a simple cease and desist letter to an injunction to a full blown summons.

And do yourself a favour, when he's gone get in a good tenant on a fixed lease. People only come into farms were they think they can get away with it.

towzer2010

tomwaterford wrote: »

Are you working.If so give him until you get home from work to get them out,if they not out turn them out yourself.and lock the gate....the longer he is in,the harder he will be to get out IMO

nip this in the bud.and best of luck OP....I hate this kind of messing:mad:

Yes nip it in the bud but not by interfering with his livestock. That is a recipe for disaster. Solicitor is your best bet and get it sorted legally. Anything else could escalate into a bad situation.

dodderangler

You could fill your freezer for a year or two or just simply open the gates and send his cattle on their way.
I wonder would the dspca be able to do anything about it

runawaybishop

dodderangler wrote: »

You could fill your freezer for a year or two or just simply open the gates and send his cattle on their way.
I wonder would the dspca be able to do anything about it

No, but the guards would arrest you for endangering people by releasing livestock onto a road.

tomwaterford

towzer2010 wrote: »

Yes nip it in the bud but not by interfering with his livestock. That is a recipe for disaster. Solicitor is your best bet and get it sorted legally. Anything else could escalate into a bad situation.

You are probily correct....Its just I don't tink on how busy roads do be....its just I live in a v.quiet area....I tink it will come down to it....I have seen something v.similar happen to a friend of mine....He didn't have d money to get involved with solicters....they are still giving him wicked blackguarding

Sharpshooter82

Dont be daft wrote: »

That scenario involves criminal trespass. Trespass with the intention of committing a crime.

What the OP is talking about is civil trespass and could only become a criminal offence if it was to commit a crime or in breach of a court order.
All the farmer has to do is claim a verbal agreement with the deceased and then proving civil trespass becomes difficult.

OP, solicitor is your best avenue now I'm afraid.
Depending on the circumstances your solicitor can do a few things ranging from a simple cease and desist letter to an injunction to a full blown summons.

And do yourself a favour, when he's gone get in a good tenant on a fixed lease. People only come into farms were they think they can get away with it.

if the Op is the rightful owner of the land, then he has the right to refuse admittance. The fact that he verbally told the farmer to leave and remove the cattle and he refused then he could be committing a criminal crime there and then as he doesnt have to trespass with intent because it is then burglary.
He could be accused of instilling fear which is a criminal crime. Of course this has to be proven and doesnt mean much if the OP is not rightful owner of the land.

verbal agreements have no bearing with one party deceased as not a hope of it standing up to the legal system even with a witness

I agree fully with Dont be daft on contacting a solicitor as its the best and quickest way forward.
I would still contact the guards so they can make a report of it so that if it came to legal proceedings at least you went to them first which would stand to ya.

I firmly believe that the guy is only chancing his arm tho

wow sierra

How do the other neighbours feel about this - are you friendly with them? Is there anyone who could try to help you deal with him and try to sort it out unofficially? Some people respond to local pressure - I am guessing you and your sisters don't live locally anymore?

If that's not an option then get a Solicitors letter sent to him as soon as possible, contact the Guards etc. He sounds like a nasty bully and you need to stand up to him. Maybe if he sees that you are strong he will back down.

Sharpshooter82

gingerfarmer wrote: »

Hi everybody,

. When my father passed he began to move more cattle on to the land than the agreed amount that my father and he came too.

He seems to have already broken this verbal agreement so can he hide behind it?

towzer2010

tomwaterford wrote: »

You are probily correct....Its just I don't tink on how busy roads do be....its just I live in a v.quiet area....I tink it will come down to it....I have seen something v.similar happen to a friend of mine....He didn't have d money to get involved with solicters....they are still giving him wicked blackguarding

I've had personal experience with it twice. The first time I was younger and more hot headed and I got involved With the people trespassing and it didn't end well so lesson learned.

Recently had horses tresspassing and went down legal route and all properly sorted now.