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The great big "ask an airline pilot" thread!

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    #1442
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Not for me :):):)
    Pilots are typically (but not always) on shorter turnarounds than passengers and have odder schedules so I suspect they also have well-developed coping strategies.
    Fatigue is a major issue for a lot of long haul crew, airlines are trying to squeeze more and more out of each crew and while they do consider circadian rhythms, it still has a major affect on people.

    smurfjed


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    #1443
    LeftBase
    Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Not for me :):):)

    Fatigue is a major issue for a lot of long haul crew, airlines are trying to squeeze more and more out of each crew and while they do consider circadian rhythms, it still has a major affect on people.

    smurfjed

    It's an issue for short haul crew too. There are a lot of guys and gals on short haul routes that may have 2 days on a 5:3 with duty at say 6am - 2pm and then 3 starting duty at 2pm - 8pm. Sleeping patterns and general rest patterns are thrown out of whack.

    There was a guy telling me he was called in off standby to fly a late sector and return that had him back to base at 9:30 pm(and home around 11pm)...he was then rostered to fly a normal duty day from 6am the next morning.


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    #1444
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Okay guys..time for the important questions

    Who holds out the flag? :eek:



    But no seriously..

    Have you ever had to one of these inauguration/delivery/special flights? If so, how often? Does it not take both pilots to taxi?


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    #1445
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    he was called in off standby to fly a late sector and return that had him back to base at 9:30 pm(and home around 11pm)...he was then rostered to fly a normal duty day from 6am the next morning.
    And this is legal ??

    We have a box of world flags around the office, national flag goes out the left window, destination flag out the right window, flag holders are attached to the outside. Either that or the radio operator sticks his head out the emergency escape hatch on the roof with a big flag :) (PS not applicable to Gulfstreams as our windows dont open :))

    smurfjed


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    #1446
    LeftBase
    Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    smurfjed wrote: »
    And this is legal ??

    He may only have flown 3 hours when he was called off standby and then had 8.5 hours rest before working another 6 or so the next day. Some budget carriers run a policy where they get approval from their authority to exempt themselves from the greater of duty/12 hours rule if the previous duty period is less than 5 hours and rest time is more than the period on duty the day before.

    It's left to crew to indicate if they are too fatigued to work...although then you do not get paid obviously and now we delve into issues raised on documentaries etc.


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    #1447
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    smurfjed wrote: »
    We have a box of world flags around the office, national flag goes out the left window, destination flag out the right window, flag holders are attached to the outside. Either that or the radio operator sticks his head out the emergency escape hatch on the roof with a big flag :) (PS not applicable to Gulfstreams as our windows dont open :))

    smurfjed

    Thanks smurfjed :)


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    #1448
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    He may only have flown 3 hours when he was called off standby and then had 8.5 hours rest before working another 6 or so the next day.
    Even the crappy FAA regulations wouldn't permit that ! With the introduction of the new FAR 117 next January, the standby time must be accounted for. I believe that this is one of the positive results to have come out of the Colgan Air crash. The other one is the requirement to have 1500 hours prior to operating for an airline, this rule would destroy P2F in Europe, so i don't see it happening outside the USA.
    although then you do not get paid obviously
    Ouch, the eternal argument in aviation, safety versus cost.


    smurfjed


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    #1449
    LeftBase
    Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Even the crappy FAA regulations wouldn't permit that ! With the introduction of the new FAR 117 next January, the standby time must be accounted for. I believe that this is one of the positive results to have come out of the Colgan Air crash. The other one is the requirement to have 1500 hours prior to operating for an airline, this rule would destroy P2F in Europe, so i don't see it happening outside the USA.

    Most of the regulations in EU-OPS are subject to revision on a case by case basis if the Operator asks the Authority and can put forward a decent enough argument. That sort of thing across a range of areas is what gives many budget airlines an edge.

    As far as the 1500 requirement in Europe goes I think that is a little unworkable. Aviation is the States is a world apart from Europe. People get a PPL in the US and will use it to commute from their home say in Miami to a small airstrip near their work in Tampa for example. They don't have to pay landing or parking fees in many cases and if you assume they are getting 3 hours a day in the air going to work and back and add then some weekend flying for recreation they could be touching close to 1000 hours in a year. In Europe private flying is a lot less "functional" and with the farcical rental fees and the airport fee rational that is now suggesting "Approach Fees" getting 1500 hours would be a lot more difficult and costly. You then must assume that the SFTR culture in airlines will not change and this adds further pain to those who have shelled out to build up 1200+ hours privately or those who paid for FI courses. Before long the financial burden may well lead to the "pilot shortage" of folklore! That is not workable for airlines.
    Ouch, the eternal argument in aviation, safety versus cost.


    smurfjed

    Although flying while ill or fatigued is obviously wrong the rent and bills have to be paid, and the kids have to be fed and watered etc. Some guys find themselves unable to afford to be sick or tired(or both). It's just the reality people find themselves in. That being said I have never done it.


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    #1450
    Suasdaguna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 525 ✭✭✭Suasdaguna1


    IRLConor wrote: »
    As a passenger, yes. You learn how to minimise the effects.

    Pilots are typically (but not always) on shorter turnarounds than passengers and have odder schedules so I suspect they also have well-developed coping strategies.

    It's called melatonin


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    #1451
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    Suasdaguna1 wrote: »
    It's called melatonin

    Cool, if it works for you. I've never found it particularly useful myself. (i.e. it's not enough to get me to sleep sitting up in a plane and I can usually fall asleep in a bed unaided.)


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    #1452
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    The fun part about corporate flying is finding yourself waking up in a hotel and having to get ready to fly to a destination that neither of you have ever flown to before, there is a sense of excitement as its new, we have done all the preparation that we can, right down to googling the local words for good evening and thank you..... And also checked out how to coordinate our entry with the local air force as they operate an air defence zone over the whole country. GoPro batteries are charged... this is gonna be fun.


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    #1453
    greenybaby
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭greenybaby


    Smurf have you ever went into the live atc archives and listened to yourself conversing with the atc :D


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    #1454
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    :) Generally no as the recordings are not available for this part of the world, but we operated a roundtrip Geneva - Shannon - New York JFK - Paris last year so I did listen to the JFK ATC recordings of our arrival and departure. Its a good way to learn if we are doing something wrong and to learn from our mistakes.


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    #1455
    keith16
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Its a good way to learn if we are doing something wrong and to learn from our mistakes.

    I have to say this is a theme that comes up again and again in aviation. From several replies on this and other threads, learning from everything, at every opportunity possible is something I hear consistently.

    It's an incredible attitude but is it hard to maintain? You must get to a stage and think to yourself - "yeah I can pretty much handle anything that is thrown at me"????


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    #1456
    eatmyshorts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 821 ✭✭✭eatmyshorts


    keith16 wrote: »
    You must get to a stage and think to yourself - "yeah I can pretty much handle anything that is thrown at me"????

    And that's an attitude that will get you killed.
    It's a never ending learning curve. Any pilot who claims to know everything and that they know how to handle any event is either lying or incredibly stupid.:eek:


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    #1457
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Thats why this job creates such an adrenaline rush, it's not like an office job where you do the same thing every single day, we have to keep learning, either from our mistakes, or learn new regulations or procedures, and then just as you think that you have almost reached the peak, its time to change aircraft and start all over again :)
    "yeah I can pretty much handle anything that is thrown at me"????
    Look how rapidly the UPS 747 went from a normal flight to a disaster, or the 744 in Bagram....

    smurfjed


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    #1458
    conor_ie
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭conor_ie


    Not sure if this has been asked before but here goes....

    So Friday morning while I was listening to the Dublin Approach frequency... it was the usual comms between the arriving planes and atc then when American 290 came through, the pilot was asking about how good the golf courses were around Dublin. (I'm assuming he spotted Portmarnock on approach!) Have any of the pilots who post here any stories about different conversations they've had with atc's around the place??


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    #1459
    greenybaby
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭greenybaby


    conor_ie wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been asked before but here goes....

    So Friday morning while I was listening to the Dublin Approach frequency... it was the usual comms between the arriving planes and atc then when American 290 came through, the pilot was asking about how good the golf courses were around Dublin. (I'm assuming he spotted Portmarnock on approach!) Have any of the pilots who post here any stories about different conversations they've had with atc's around the place??
    What time was that at, can't find the flight in the archives for flightradar or live atc :confused:


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    #1460
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    This is quoted as the crew rules for the Abercrombie and Fitch G550....
    * Pre-flight, workers are directed to mount a fingerprint hunt throughout the Gulfstream G550.

    * In the rear lavatory, “washcloths are to be tri-folded,” while toilet paper is not to be exposed (nor should its “end square” be folded).

    * A 13-title magazine assortment should be available in a credenza, with all inserts removed.

    * Seat belts “should be folded neatly into the seat backing. The buckles should have a ten inch space between them and should be free of fingerprints or marks.

    * "Clean shaven" male staffers should “spritz their uniforms with Abercrombie & Fitch 41 cologne” and adhere to a uniform that includes boxer briefs, flip flops, a polo shirt, and gloves. When wearing a winter coat (but only when the temperature is 50 or below), crew member must “Zip the jacket up to the fourth button from the bottom. The lowest button should be left undone, but the next three buttons up should be fastened.” Also, “Flip up the collar on the coat.”

    * The jeans of crew members “should sit at the hips. The belt is flipped over at the buckle.” As for shirts, they “should be tucked in at the front between the front two belt loops and none of the buttons should be fastened.” That’s right, the male staffers--usually wannabe models and actors--do not need to worry about fussing with tricky shirt buttons.

    * A steward must “Check the Cross pens and make sure that they will be writing properly. They should be changed once a month, or when the pen is not writing properly.”

    Hope that my boss never reads that :):):) Although in our usual environment, boxers and flip flops would be great.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/af-plane-rules?page=0

    smurfjed


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    #1461
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,039 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Have any of the pilots who post here any stories about different conversations they've had with atc's around the place??
    For me its more fun to listen to the arguments.... We frequently get to listen to great arguments between flight crew and atc, the best that i heard was "you cannot talk to me like that, I AM THE CAPTAIN"... That was following an argument when the aircraft assumed that once he vacated the runway that he could taxi on a specific taxiway.

    Strangely enough, the crew are usually from one specific country.



    smurfjed


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    #1462
    LeftBase
    Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    conor_ie wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been asked before but here goes....

    So Friday morning while I was listening to the Dublin Approach frequency... it was the usual comms between the arriving planes and atc then when American 290 came through, the pilot was asking about how good the golf courses were around Dublin. (I'm assuming he spotted Portmarnock on approach!) Have any of the pilots who post here any stories about different conversations they've had with atc's around the place??

    A few months ago I saw a cargo aircraft make a right on to a main parallel taxiway when it should have made a left they were immediately informed of that by the ground controller but not before they were pretty much nose to nose with an A310 that was holding to allow them out...sadly neither had a reverse gear! :o


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    #1463
    Jimmy444
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭Jimmy444


    Question for Airbus pilots: the video below shows the energetic actions of the pilot on the joystick as he comes in to land manually. I thought the way fly-by-wire works is that you put the aircraft in the attitude you require e.g 10 degree climb or bank 20 degrees, then let go the controls and the system recognises the current attitude as the situation you require and automatically corrects to maintain it until a further input is made. Do you think the pilot in this video is making the corrections for gusts, or is it to prevent diverging from the centreline due to varying crosswinds? I'm surprised he has to work so hard despite so much automation.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBuoA9qkKi4


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    #1464
    LeftBase
    Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    Jimmy444 wrote: »
    Question for Airbus pilots: the video below shows the energetic actions of the pilot on the joystick as he comes in to land manually. I thought the way fly-by-wire works is that you put the aircraft in the attitude you require e.g 10 degree climb or bank 20 degrees, then let go the controls and the system recognises the current attitude as the situation you require and automatically corrects to maintain it until a further input is made. Do you think the pilot in this video is making the corrections for gusts, or is it to prevent diverging from the centreline due to varying crosswinds? I'm surprised he has to work so hard despite so much automation.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBuoA9qkKi4

    Having the nose at 10 degrees and it staying there is grand when you want to climb but at lower speed when landing you need to make larger and more regular control inputs to keep the aircraft where you want it. Setting the aircraft up with a pitch/thrust setting is grand in still wind but gusts and windhsear can make a mess of it. A lot of modern jets are designed to cruise like the clappers but are divas in the landing configuration. In this clip I get the impression he may be over correcting/controlling a little bit as he seems to make a big enough deflection one way and then the same deflection the other afterwards.

    Interesting issue with Airbus side-sticks is that one guy can be throwing the stick around or have it all the way back(a la Air France) and the other guy's stick stays central and does not move like Boeing control wheels would. This means that a Captain flying with an inexperienced FO has to monitor the systems he monitors as PNF and keep a close eye on the inputs the FO is putting in as he cannot see them through his stick.


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    #1465
    Shamrock231
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭Shamrock231


    Heard a story a couple days ago about a training Captain, who, as a practical joke on a new 250 hour FO's line training, convinced him that you still needed to shout "CLEAR!" out the window when starting the engines in their A320, leading to some funny looks when he was finally released onto the line.

    Any of the pilots on here have stories of other practical jokes like this played on innocent new FOs?


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    #1466
    LeftBase
    Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭LeftBase


    Shamrock231 wrote: »
    Heard a story a couple days ago about a training Captain, who, as a practical joke on a new 250 hour FO's line training, convinced him that you still needed to shout "CLEAR!" out the window when starting the engines in their A320, leading to some funny looks when he was finally released onto the line.

    Any of the pilots on here have stories of other practical jokes like this played on innocent new FOs?

    Heard of a Training Captain on a check flight turning off the LCD screens without saying he had done so to see how the FO would react to having to use the back up instruments(and for ****s and giggles)...FO immediately called a mayday despite the fact the autopilot was still engaged and he had his backup instruments to hand.....the screens were off...thats all that was wrong! Training Captain is said to have given a rather gruff and firm "CANCEL MAYDAY" over the radio soon after.

    An FO on his first day told to go "kick the tires" by the Captain did exactly that and came back 2 mins later.


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    #1467
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    LeftBase wrote: »
    .....
    An FO on his first day told to go "kick the tires" by the Captain did exactly that and came back 2 mins later.

    I fervently hope this is urban myth.....


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    #1468
    pclancy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭pclancy


    Shamrock231 wrote: »
    Heard a story a couple days ago about a training Captain, who, as a practical joke on a new 250 hour FO's line training, convinced him that you still needed to shout "CLEAR!" out the window when starting the engines in their A320, leading to some funny looks when he was finally released onto the line.

    Ha-ha I do this whenever I start up our pipers or cessnas and I feel like a complete idiot each time. Can't imagine doing it from the window of an A320 :)


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    #1469
    Surveyor11
    Registered Users Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭Surveyor11


    Was out on Portmarnock beach on Sunday with my son, we decided to sit on the beach and watch the planes coming into land over our head.

    One thing we noticed is that with almost every Ryanair plane (say 9 out of 10 aircraft), they flew with wheels up the longest. Is this to conserve fuel? Or is it due to aircraft type - with the mainly Airbuses of Aer Lingus, Lufthansa and (what looked like) Swissair, the landing gear was down well over the water before they flew over us.


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    #1470
    Shamrock231
    Registered Users Posts: 726 ✭✭✭Shamrock231


    Could be a number of things, gear creates a lot of drag, so if the other planes were fast, they'd lower them earlier to make sure they weren't too fast by the stable approach gate.
    I don't know about the difference between Airbus and Boeing, but depending on the aircraft, if you reach a certain flap setting and the gear isn't down yet, an alarm will go off, so it may be that the 737 with it's 8 flap settings vs. the A320's 4 may be able to drop the flaps further before they need to lower the gear.

    Those would be the main reasons that come to mind.


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    #1471
    basill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    Aer Lingus sops are for wide bodies to take the gear at 6.5nm from the runway threshold and for narrows 5.5nm. Ryanair probably have different sops if they are consistently taking the gear later.


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